Can you survive...?

[silverweb]

Interesting thread over in GD regarding emergency preparedness.

Can you survive without electricity, gasoline, and grocery stores for three days? Would you know what to do and how to get what you needed?

The Ohio River valley is just coming out of days of a massive power outage. There are still 1/2 million people without electricity in the area and some of those are without water. We were blasted by the remnants of hurricane Ike, which no one predicted would cause so much damage. We had winds gusting above 80 miles per hour which downed trees and power-lines all over the area, causing a massive blackout for at least 1,000,000 people.

I think it's fair to ask; are you prepared for the sudden halt to civilization as you know it.

_link_

[Warpy]

1. I was snowed in for a week in 2006

thanks to an unpredicted 18 inch snowfall in a town that has absolutely no snow removal equipment.

I missed salad by the end, but I was fine even when the power was out.

A friend in western Kentucky says it's been bad there, though, lots of wind damage from the remnants of Ike.

[silverweb]

2. Anything could happen at almost any time.

My son has always been after me to keep a good week's supply of all essentials on hand at all times, since I'm in earthquake country -- water, nonperishible food, pet food, candles, flashlights, batteries, first aid items, etc.

Sad so say, I'm not as diligent about it as I should be, although I do always have between 9-12 gallons of drinking water on hand.

As planetary stability deteriorates and as conditions in the nation become more uncertain, we should all be paying much closer attention to preparedness. It's way too easy to procrastinate and then it could be too late.

[sandsavage]

3. We could survive for perhaps a couple of years.

What a really interesting place this is.
My husband and I have been retired for years.Both of us grew up poor. In fact my folks were so poor, I thought his family was rich. My family did not have electric until I was 13 years old. I owe my dear departed Mom for knowing how to survive just about anything that comes our way.

My husband and I did our time working for the Man. Saved enough money to buy 35 acres of land. Land no one in their right mind (as some folks would say) would buy this property. We have the State forest on 3 sides of us. We really do live in the woods.
Drilled 3 wells
Built two houses,two barns and a garage with workshop. We built these ourselves
Chicken coop
Outhouse- Have to keep that hidden, but its a cutie. LOL
We also built a really nice greenhouse.The greenhouse is attached to the main house. We keep a window
open to the main house and are able to grow vegies all winter.
We are very blessed to have our land flush with trees. We harvest these in a manner that has served us well. We will never run out of wood.
We have a wood stove that heats our whole house.
The herb pantry is well stocked. This is my medicine and comfort pantry.
We can hundreds of jars of good wholesome food, from the garden every year.
Ok, now I know this must be getting on your nerves so going to stop.

We live in Michigan and really have to prepare for the cold winters. We do have electric and all
the things that go with this. Our electric goes out at least 3 to 5 times a year. Anywhere from a few
hours to ten days. For some reason we are the first to have the power go out and the last to get it back on. in our area.
Could we get off the grid? Ithink we could do very well, for at least two years.


Have a huge garden

[silverweb]

5. Your setup sounds wonderful.

I'm completely envious, and can only begin to guess at the ingenuity and hard work that went into what you've built.

Those of us who are stuck in more populated areas also need to create a backup survival system.

The way I figure it, we need 4 essentials immediately in a disaster: water, food, sanitation, and energy. Backup planning if outside sources for these things are compromised is critical.

[sandsavage]

9. Thank you, it is wonderful

Yes it was and still is hard work.Good hard work. We see the results of our work and the feeling is one of security. This is important to us from hard learned life lessons. When it comes down to the nitty gritty, one has to realize in these uncertain times, you have to depend on yourself.

Our income is Social Security checks and a small pension. Neither of these are secure in present times.
We did plan very careful. No large animals. We grew up on farms. Large animals eat huge amounts of expensive food.

Our wells can all be quickly changed to hand pump wells. This is important if the electric goes out.
Many little things to think about, living this way of life. The forest is an important grocery store for us. She gives us the best Huckleberry pies,jam and jelly. Blackberries a plenty, just to mention a tiny bit of the treasures, that make me drool.

We live with the forest critters. Coyotes, deer, wild turkeys, etc. They help us harvest our garden often.
We do not kill or eat any of them. They seem to know this. We do not have a problem with those who do hunt them, but not on our property. We do not need to harvest the animals at this point in our lives.

The things you mentioned for survival are very important. Sanitation is one of the important things you mentioned. Plan for this as it does not take long for human waste to be a health hazard. Plan for your pets too. So many don't do this and it breaks my heart. Watch the sales and get pet crates, food anything you will need your pets will need also.
This is a very important thread in these times.

[silverweb]

10. I neglected to welcome you.

Just noticed your low post count and that you're fairly new, so WELCOME TO DU! :hi:

You're absolutely right that this is an important subject in these times, and there's been a lot of interest in an Emergency Preparedness Forum. However, Admin did not see fit to establish a new forum for EP when it was applied for in the past, so I've proposed that we use THIS forum for the subject.

DUer "ColbertWatcher" has suggested starting every new thread on emergency preparedness with the letters EP so we can find them quickly when needed. He has also added to _this thread_ in this group with an impressive list and suggestions.

We can really make this forum a "go to" resource and perhaps get Admin to change the name to include "Emergency Preparedness" in the title.

[hippywife]

11. Excellent!

We have a similar set up on a smaller scale - only one small 870sf house on 8 acres that husband built himself, six or so of the 8 acres goes totally wild for the critters. Big garden and chickens.

We were without power here in rural OK for five days back in December due to a huge ice storm and did pretty well for ourselves, actually. We love to camp so we had plenty of back-up supplies. Even tho we are rural, we're close enough to the edge to get city water but have a septic tank. Water would be an issue but we are making a rain collection system and it would take a very long time to over run the septic system, provided we had the water to flush.

All of this is not because we are survivalists, we just try to be as environmentally aware and active as we can be on very small income.

Your place sounds really grand. I know you must cherish it as much as we do our place. I wouldn't want to live any other way and plan on rotting in place. LOL

[sandsavage]

12. EP Your post was delightful.

Gave this old granny a smile from ear to ear.Good for you Your set up and life style sounds just like ours.

This is what I wish everyone would do. Just for 3 days. Turn off your electric if possible or just pretend you do not have it. Maybe a Friday to Sunday night. Pretend you can't go to the store, gas station or the shopping centers. No use of your car. Even a 24 hour period will give you a jolt as to what one needs to get started. Pick one member of the family to call the pretend power out emergency. So you wont know when it is coming.

Years ago we did this with seven children in the home.We had adopted four children and also had 3 grandchildren living with us. The kids were just awesome. They had a blast. The outhouse was the best form of entertainment for them. The boys would wait until the girls would get their lantern to go potty. Then sneak out their window and wait for them on the path to the outhouse.They would jump out and scare them. Good thing we live in the woods because those screams were awful.LOL The girls did the same to the boys but not as effective. Boys do not go far to piddle.

We had our pretend black out for four days. It sure prepared us for the nine and a half day blackout that was to hit us in couple of years.

Something else besides the home emergency. Have a bag in your car with anything you may need in case you get stranded. Also one at your work place. If you are on meds, this is a must.When my husband and I were in the work force there were many times we could not get home for hours. Remember just a coffee can with a bit of sand in the bottom,several candles,matches and a lighter can keep you from freezing to death if you are stranded in your car in the winter. Of course our travel emergency bags have more.You can survive most anything if you have fire,water(for 3 days a must)and food.

My luxury item. Toilet paper. I have been teased about this by my family. But guess who they come to when they run out. If toilet paper was money, I would be a rich old gal.

We are not survivalists either. Just very aware of how fragile we humans are, Mother Nature does not play favorites with her puny human kids. Like you we find that one can acquire a mound of security for just about anything, on a small income. It is hard work. We are putting up wood for the winter now. Keeping three years of wood on hand is not easy but it is money in the bank. That is what my Hubby tells me when my butt is bouncing off my heels, from being pooped out. LOL

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

22. Egads, I forgot about the coffee can and candles for the trunk!

Slaps self in forehead. Got a newer car 2 years ago, and forgot to place a can in it's trunk. Thanks for the reminder.
Northern MI can get wicked cold.

I enjoyed reading your posts tonight, and wish you well.

[sandsavage]

24. Your welcome

Your post gave me a chuckle. When the kids got their first cars, the coffee can was a must.
Also the bag with a blanket,sweaters,socks, water bottle and power bar snacks were a must too.
Rule was if Mom checked your trunk, you better have all that or don't ask me for gas money.LOL
Checked often so their water wouldn't go bad.

Yes Michigan is wicked cold. But we love it!

[sazemisery]

29. Hey, are you ready for the ice?

Mr.sazemisery and I went to Tulsa yesterday and stocked up on items we can't get in our town. The stores were packed at 1:00 pm with people stoking up. I hope the weathermen are wrong and we get sleet or snow instead.

Stay safe.

[femrap]

20. Welcome to DU...

you can teach us a lot. Your home sounds wonderful.

[FedUpWithIt All]

30. We planned our 20x30 foot, wide row, garden yesterday.

We desperately want to do what you have. We want to buy around 30 acres outright, build a cob home, own some chickens and a couple of sheep...

In the meantime we rent and garden.

:hi:

[zuzu98]

4. We lost power for 5 days in 2006. Taught us a lesson.

Now I keep an "Emergency" kit in a big plastic tote: flashlights & candles, batteries, crank radio & lanterns, first aid kit, collapsible cooler, sanitizing gel & wipes, cash, etc., plus several gallons of water, pet food and non-perishable food items.

Whenever we have a big rainstorm in the forecast and are likely to lose power, I gather the dog's leashes, pull out the emergency kit, put out containers to catch rain water (to use for the dogs and to flush the toilets) and put gallon jugs of water in the freezer (once frozen, they help keep things cold and when they melt again we can use the water). I also make sure that the car is full of gas (I have a hybrid that has an AC outlet. We plugged the coffeemaker into it in the morning and charged up the cell phones when needed).

[silverweb]

6. You've got a good system.

Having that one, 5-day experience taught you exactly what you'd need for a repeat event.

[SteveM]

7. A good move here in Texas:

The state parks were opened up to evacuees of Ike, and no fees were charged. Local T.V. (Austin) interviewed several families who came up from the coast and pitched tents or lived out of fifth wheels at McKinney Falls State Park. Here, they cook, hike, play, and acquire goods as necessary in town. Most were in good spirits and seemed comfortable.

Contrast this with evacuees in the various centers in town. Local government and NGOs did a very good job providing for these folks, but after a few days, patience has worn thin as FEMA numbers go on hold and folks do the zombie walk with cell phones. Further, some centers had to be closed (since they were schools), and evacuees had to move again to other Austin facilities.

I think being in nature -- even if a rather domesticated corner of it -- may be a better choice psychologically than sitting with a thousand others in a convention center. It seems these "tin can campers" (old Florida term) may have taken this action before as a vacation and were thereby well-equipped (in the head) to do the same thing during an emergency.

[silverweb]

8. A very good move!

It definitely takes planning ahead, especially for those without any kind of RV: tent, sleeping bags, and full camping gear/supplies all ready to be put into the car on short notice, still leaving enough room for all passengers.

Planning like that takes investment and preparation, and at least one dry run -- but for those for whom it's a possible option, its a great one!

[japple]

13. During several blizzards in North Carolina, we were

without power for days at a time, and we were usually prepared for it. Of course, when the power went out, so did our well, so we always had about 30 gal. of water, which would get double duty, i.e., dishwater would be used to flush toilet, but only if really necessary. We always had plenty of canned food, or things that we could fix that didn't require cooking. My husband would make coffee on the gas grill, and we'd cook our dinner on that, too. And we had a backup kerosene heater, which would keep most of the house warm. The only trial I had was trying to cook oatmeal over a candle (chaffing dish). It never got hot enough to boil the water, so we did invest in a campstove.

Now that I'm living in a place that rarely has temperatures below 30 degrees, never floods, the biggest fear around here is tornadoes, and I guess I am totally unprepared for that. If there was any warning, I could go to my cousin's basement next door. I still keep plenty of water and canned food on hand in case the power goes out. And I still have lanterns, campstove, candles and plenty of petfood. Fortunately, I live in a small, rural community where most everyone knows each other. If our electricity were to go out for days, my neighbors would all come over to my house and help me eat the perishing items from my freezer.
Good topic, silverweb. Sounds like your community could use your civil preparedness skills.

[silverweb]

14. Thanks for your input, japple.

Others at DU have been asking for a forum dedicated to EP, so I certainly can't take any credit for the original idea. Since a new forum hasn't happened, though, I see absolutely no reason why we can't move forward with achieving the same end here.

In particular, post #4 by ColbertWatcher in _this thread_ offers an organized way to gather and present EP information.

I haven't had a chance in the past few days to really dig in, but we're looking for all useful ideas that can be adopted and/or adapted for people in different areas with different needs.

Thanks again for your input... and I hope to see more from you here! :hi:

[sandsavage]

15. EP-- Really good site,tons of info.

This was sent to me by a friend. It iS a very good site for just about any thing coming our way.
The first twenty pages are about the LDS reason for being prepared. Page 20 is where all the info starts.
I was very impressed and it is very well thought out. Food storage, survival info, on everything and clothing tips etc. This is a book that can be purchased but it is free to download.

http://www.abysmal.com/LDS/Preparedness/Preparedness.pdf

[silverweb]

16. Very cool, thanks!

I'm kind of swamped lately, but am looking forward to getting into all these new resources and extracting/posting useful gems of information. :hi:

Feel free to start without me. ;)

[sandsavage]

17. EP- Good site on getting your home ready for winter

This site is Green Talk
It has pictures and very easy to understand.
http://www.green-talk.com/2007/11/12/lower-your-energy-consumptionthrough-your-attic/

Some things we have done.

Check those outlets too. Especially for older homes. I was shocked as to how much cold air comes out of them. The childproof plugs will help with this. Cheap thin foam sheets cut to fit, placed behind the outlet plates stop that draft also. We went from room to room checking every thing that came into the house. Dryer vents,exhaust fans in bathrooms,gas lines, range fan over stove, ceiling mounted light fixtures, drain pipes (bathroom, kitchen sink) Just some of the things I can think of right now.

Under and around your doors and windows are what most check. Just remember if a hole is cut for any thing coming in your house, check it and plug any cracks.

Michigan is cold and we love it, but it needs to stay outside.

I get a kick out of my hubby in the winter. He checks people's roofs. No snow on the roof he declares they need more insulation in their attic. We are old and easy to amuse. LOL

[old mark]

18. we got snowed in as well, lived in the country.

We keep the cupboards full of canned food, freezers (2) pretty well stocked. We have a gass grill outside we could cook with, and keep and extra cylinder of propane outside if we should need it. We are getting a pellet burning stove installed in a month or so, and keep a supply of candles, lighters and even a few kero lamps around as well as flashlights. Also, a few thousand books to read and acoustic guitars to play if there is (horror!) no TV.

Pretty much ready to last a few weeks, anyway.

mark

[murray hill farm]

19. one of my favorite survival "finds"

is slightly used...or just unwanted candles at local garage sales. They practically pay u to take them, but u often find a shoe box of sorts filled with them for 25 cents or less. They last forever and take up very little space, but when the electricity goes off, they feel like gold. Water is the most important though..store water.... And.. in a separate from the regular utility water supply, put in shallow garden well with just a simple hand pump. Water is second only to breathable air when it comes to survival.

[sandsavage]

23. You are so right about the shallow well

It is not hard to put down a shallow well. We have one in our garden. Just a word of caution. The hand pump screws on the pipe. Thus is easy to unscrew. Sad to say a few of our friends have had these stolen.Have a feeling they end up as very expensive mail box holders.It seems to be the fad in town to use hand pumps to decorate the old mail box. LOL Most around these parts, tuck that hand pump away if we are going to be gone for awhile.

Used candles are worth their weight in gold! Couldn't agree more. Did you know that you can take the cheapest of vegetable oil and make a candle? Just drop a wick with a weight on the bottom in a pint jar or any jar that can take heat. Tie the top of the string to a stick. Lay the stick over the opening of the jar. I drop marbles half way up the jar, to keep the string straight. Fill the jar with cooking oil. Snip the string from the stick. Let the wick soak up a bit of the oil and light it. Lasts for about eight hours or more.One half cup of cooking oil lasts for about twelve hours. Add a few drops of citronella to the oil. This keeps the sketters away,when you are out in the evening.You can even use a piece of rag for a wick. This is on the same order of the little clay lamps they used in the bible. Which cost a fortune to buy now.Since everyone always has a jar or jug of cooking oil on hand, this is just something to keep in mind.Link below to the homemade oil lamp.It shows pretty much the way I do it.

http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/homemade_oil_lamp_from_ju.html

[murray hill farm]

25. Thanks for that info

i believe it is just these bits of information that are so important to know...and i think I will start a file for them. I like your veggie oil candle information quite a bit...thanks! A specific bit of information that I have been trying to find for years is the ingredients for the old time "Black Salve" that my grandmother used to make. I can find recipes on line and in some of the herbal medicine books, but the on line sites are really just trying to get folks to buy the ingredience that only they sell...and that makes no "survival" sense to me. Also, this is clearly not the recipe my granny had that she just found off the land. The one thing I most regret is that I never got her recipe for the salve and other medicines she made all of her life. I know the salve had various wild herbs in it and that one of them was wild tobaco...and that it had a petrolium base since I once saw her scrape melted tar off the side of a tar road..ha! A black salve is also sold in some pharmacies, but it is a commercial thing and again just not the same. Anyway...if anyone here ever comes across it or knows the old time salve, it would be great as a survival tool. It would clear up ANYTHING from boils to poison ivy, any skin infection and was a great salve for insect bites and rashes. Thanks!

[sandsavage]

26. Your granny was smart

she knew just what she needed. Now my old adopted Indian granny did the same. Just a bit different. This old half breed granny does the same but different too. My granny used pine tar. Pine tar has the same use as coal tar in those salves.Below is a site that will tell you why our granny's knew exactly why they collected the tar.

I cheat make all my lotions and salves in an old crock pot. The black salve is also called a drawing salve. The salve you mentioned I think it is called Ichamol,not sure of the spelling. It is a very good
salve almost the same thing. You can buy the same thing for half the price in the horse section of your local farm supply stores. Not kidding, it is exactly the same. Pure pine tar is very expensive to buy.

There really is an herb for everything. Your granny used the tobacco to keep all types of insects and nasty bacteria away from what she was healing with her salve. Most black salve makers have their own
recipe. Just depends what part of the world and culture they come from. Herbs are herbs, just have different names and looks in different places.But tar is tar LOL

I wish I had paid more attention too!






http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/117978680/abstract

[murray hill farm]

27. Hey, thanks again!

Have u ever thought about writing a book about your life now...and all u have learned along the way about living a more simple life. I would buy it..ha! I, too, am from Michigan. Born in detroit back in '41, lived there until I was 14 when my parents bought a farm in Milford (it was actually real farm country back then), went to school at Wayne State and then to Northern Michigan Univ in Marquette...where I lived and worked for the state of Michigan until I took an early retirement in '94..moved to fla and then to Mexico and then to Georgia, where I live now. Bought a small farm in Arkansas this spring..and hope to be moved there by spring of next year. It is my hope, even as an old granny on her own, to create for myself a life style much like your own. I have already rehabed the barn on the property, put in a well and had a fantastic outhouse built. I am hoping to turn the back half of the barn into a home, raise some goats and chickens...perhaps some bees and grow and can most of my own food. Anyway....where are u in Michigan?

[sandsavage]

28. Small world!

No book writing for me. I just do not have the education to do this. We live in Central Michigan. My husband retired from Central Michigan University. Now he has the smarts to write a book. LOL.
We bought our land 30 years ago. We really do live in the woods. We have raised goats and still have a few
chickens.Fresh goat's milk, yummy. Made tons of yogurt,cheese and cottage cheese and goat's milk soap, all good. Try to get a
Nubian/ Sannan cross breed of goats. The Nubian gives less milk but the butterfat is awesome. The Sannan is your holstein of goats. The butterfat is almost nill but crossed with the Nubian is perfect. Alpine goats are good milkers too. They don't have the laid back attitude of the others.Try not to get talked into the pure bred goats. Unless you plan on showing them at goat shows. They are not as hardy as your crossbred goats.

We live around twenty miles from the University CMU. There is about 2,000 acres of State Land around us.
About that far from the Chippewa Indian Reservation too. Good people there. I'm of the Cree Nation, Canada.

Really like the idea of turning half your barn into a home. People used to do this many years ago. The old time settlers. Good for you! Sounds ideal if you are going to be alone. Safer for you and your animals. Don't let anyone change your mind. My handle Sandsavage was given to us,by my dear old Mom. She was so shocked that we bought this land.She said, there was nothing but trees and sand, people would just think we were tree dwellers or worse heathen sand savages living in the woods.LOL It has always been a family joke.
Hey, about that black salve. Many used bloodroot and that can be very caustic. Will cause scars even. So be cautious if you decide to do this.

If I can ever be of help, just let me know.
Very impressed with your courage and strong
will.

[ebayfool]

32. Cansema? Sanguinaria canadensis, easy to get the plant & grow yer own.

My dad uses bloodroot (black salve) to burn off skin lesions (he has a propensity for skin cancer & no insurance). He was getting hit pretty hard ($$$) at the health food store, so I started a patch of bloodroot growing for him.


Then again, black salve could be a lot of different things - I'm not too sure if this stuff would be the ticket for some of the other things you listed (bug bites, etc).

[JitterbugPerfume]

21. I have canned goods and two freezers full so I wouldn't starve

I might get tired of canned tomatoes and green beans though.

a couple of years ago my water pump went out and I melted and boiled snow for water . It wasn't fun , but it can be done .

Mom taught me about edible herbs , so I guess I could be a hunter-gatherer if I had to

[EmeraldCityGrl]

31. We were with out power for eight days

the winter of 2008. We had enough supplies to feed some folks at a nearby mobile home park that were without anything.

Since then I have purchased bulk rice, beans, flour, baking powder, canned goods etc. Heavy duty pails with gamma lids, 50 gallion water container,
heirloom seeds, grain mill, dehydrator, to much to list.

I want to be in a position to take care of my family and a few unprepared neighbors.