Why are alt energy supplies STILL so Farking expensive!!?

[supernova]

There was a very nice article in our local alt newspaper this week. The gentleman profiled is an economist and professor emeritus here. His thesis, and his research backs it up, is that the best way is to combine wind and solar energy generation.

I am very willing in the coming years to transform my home into a little alt energy engine. The trouble is, initial investment in these systems is prohibitive. I could easily spend a combined 30-40K for both types.

If I were in engineer-type I'd consider building the things myself. But, I'm not. I have to rely on the experts.

Why isn't this stuff coming down in price yet?!?

[cbayer]

1. Those total overhauls are really expensive, but you can start small.

We have two solar panels and are going to install a wind generator. While my conditions are very different than most, these small additions have created big changes in the way I use things. One panel essentially runs my refrigerator during the day, while the other charges my 12 volt system for use in the evening.

Since you can see how much you are creating and using on a minute by minute basis, you may begin to rather dramatically alter your behavior and can add to the system as it begins to pay for itself.

Installation of a couple of solar panels, a small wind generator, their regulators and a 12 volt system with inverter does not require you to be an engineer. It's really pretty simple.

Anyway, I hear you. If it was going to cost 30 - 40 K, I couldn't even begin to think about it.

:hi:

[supernova]

2. What kinds of DIY setups are you using?

[cbayer]

3. I live on a boat, so I already had the 12 volt system in place.

We have 10- 6 volt batteries (golf cart, deep cycle) hooked up directly to a 12 volt system that runs many of our day to day electrical items. We also have an inverter that converts it to 110 AC, which is what most homes run on. You don't have to install a 12 volt system if you have a relatively small inverter, but it is more efficient to run right off the batteries.

The two Kyocera solar panels feed directly into the batteries. Very simple to install. There is a regulator that they have to go through to stop them if they are overcharging. Those can be purchased anywhere you buy the panels and they also give you the read out on how much solar power you are getting and your battery state.

You might think about doing this for a single appliance to start with and have the batteries feed it directly or through an inverter. Big draw items, like a water heater, won't work, but a refrigerator or entertainment system would. Something that you run a lot, but doesn't require a massive amount of electricity when it is on.

We do have two generators as well, because we are off the grid. We have a large one that can fully charge the batteries in about 2 hours after periods of high use or low sunshine. We have a much smaller portable one that does the same thing, but less efficiently. They both create 110 AC while they are on as well.

If you are not comfortable doing this yourself, or want to learn how to do it so you expand the system yourself over time, you might want to get some bids on just installing a starter set. Some of the companies that sell components have workshops as well.

Just my opinion, but I think there is a lot individuals can do between nothing and a $30,000 house makeover. It seems intimidating, but it's not that complicated. And we did get tax credits for what we did install, which brought the price down significantly (check with your state).

Anyway, I hope this encourages you to think about starting small. There are lots of website about doing this. I tend to use the boat sites when I need help, but there are lots of site for homes as well.

I love discussing this, so feel free to ask any questions you might have.

:hi:

The wind generator will work in essentially the same fashion - direct to the batteries

[cbayer]

4. check this out! Might be a great way to start small if these are available in the us

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x250139

[supernova]

5. Interesting

Thanks for the info, cbayer.

I looked at their website but I can't find the solar models yet though.

[HillbillyBob]

7. Northern Tool now carries

12v fridges and freezers I forget the brand off hand, but they are the same that dedicated solar stores carry. I thnk it is SunDanzer...anyway its a reputable brand and they also carry the solar panels and battery back up so that your freezer or fridge can run on sunlight. They have lower prices than the dedicated solar stores

We started several years to replace each thing as it dies with more efficient.
We have cut our power from 3300+ kilo watt hours per month to 800 to 1300(window unit ac adds 40$ /200 kwhrs ) it was entirely too hot this summer and the big unit is too expensive to run..I cannot pay the bill for it. That was that 3300 kwhrs .
I have gotten insulated curtains, sealed holes and gaps with great stuff, gaskets in the outlet and switch covers, cook in covered pots, toaster oven instead of the big oven. We had replaced all the lights with CFLs when we moved in but have been replacing them with LEDs as they die.
We also recycle and grow food in the yard. When the 18 yr old grand caravan died we replaced it with a Nissan Versa 33-37 mpg depeding on how you drive and what kind of tires (rides nice, good acc and room for 4 adults)

[txlibdem]

8. LED light bulbs are still outrageously expensive

Look for mass production to bring prices down beginning in 2012.

Hint: LED light bulbs are far superior to CFL. I've stopped buying CFL's because they keep burning out in my ceiling cans. Make sure you get the DIMMABLE CFLs if you're using a dimmer.

It looks like 2012 will be a banner year for LED lighting as many other manufacturers are ramping up production and prices will be sure to start to drop, perhaps drastically.

Just start with 1 bulb if you can afford it. Then as finances allow get a 2nd, etc.

Best bang for your buck:
..insulated blanket for your water heater
..caulk around windows
..weather strip around doors and window seals
..foam sealant around receptacles on exterior walls
..add more insulation to the attic

Once you've done all those things you can start looking into the more expensive things:
..on-demand water heater (when your current w/h dies. they're not much more expensive than a regular one anyway)
..solar water heating system
..solatube to bring daylight into dark rooms so you don't have to use lights during the day
..if you live in a hot clime like I do, solar screens on your west and south facing windows

That's just the tip of the iceberg, honestly. You have so many more choices I didn't even list but not all of them will work in every part of the country. For further study: Passive Solar Building Design.

[Warpy]

6. No one has provided the seed money for large scale production

in the type of factory that used to be all over the Rust Belt, huge arrays of buildings that covered multiple city blocks and employed thousands.

That's what needs to happen to get prices down, large scale production, but it seems the only way to get the uber rich to provide that kind of investment is to tax them into it.

[sybster1000]

9. My BF went 2 a 3 day seminar on Solar Energy.Guess who owns?

He went to Summertown community/commune here in TN. The guy said that Shell, another oil co. that I can't remember and a Japanese refinery produced most of the solar power products. Does any one know if this is true? Here in Tn. Hemlock is a factory being built that will produce polysilicon, the largest of it's kind. Hopefully this will drop the price. Here is a link..

http://www.netvaly.org/pages/newspages/hemlock.htm