Are there any actuaries out there in DU?

[MalachiConstant]

I have my B.S. in Physics, so I have a pretty strong math background. I've been doing a little bit of research and it seems that actuaries are a pretty desirable position. I like the whole problem solving, number crunching bit, so I've signed up to take my first exam (the Financial Mathematics exam) in May.

So, please, enlighten me. Is it worth it?

[papau]

1. Early lifestyle sucks as you study for 10 years post-grad, but its best

nerd job out there.

Pay varies greatly.

Backroom no client contact past all exams is $75000 and up, higher level* with major inter-company clients is 120 and up, outside client contact w/ sales gift of gab is 200 and up. Acting skills are very important at this level of business.

But if you insist on a given geographic location you will spend a large amount of time self-employed at whatever salary. More likely you will move every 5 to 10 years so as to get work.

* higher level means some department function/leadership, which can be superb data mining skills, or financial instrument or merger client analysis skills.

The job openings go to to top 1% unless you know someone or have demonstrated prior ability, or, for the not top 1%, the company just needs a smart liaison/programing person for 12 to 18 months and you are a cheap solution (this can turn into a career so don't knock it).

Your corporate competition are very smooth MBA's that move easily in the high net worth world, Lawyers that know how to drop a word for maximum impact in 6 months, and Financial types that again work easily with the high net worth brokers.

Many actuaries do not survive as such to 65, but are late arriving teachers, etc. after losing out in some power struggle, or social skills contest.

Self-employed consultants depends on your acting skills again and your gift for landing clients.

The math is not heavy - but the application to billion dollar asset movement is impressive the first few times out.

Ass kissing not required if willing to change jobs a lot - top jobs go to tall slim northern EU/Brit/Dutch/Commonwealth male types with wealthy parent backgrounds, but open to fat, short, and ethnic of all colors/sex and backgrounds.

[MalachiConstant]

2. hmmmm....

i'm not sure whether i should be encouraged or not. the salary sounds nice, but the competition sounds a bit stiff. do you mean to imply that there is a high burnout rate among actuaries?

[papau]

3. No - there is no high burn out rate. The actual job is one of the best

in terms of any of the quality of life measures - except there is the time lost going through the exams (at least 5 years, more likely 10 to 12, with the forced, via the curve, low pass rates of under 50% so as to control the quality - while keeping supply down as a side benefit that keeps actuarial salaries up.... The early year's 1000 hours extra studying time per year needed means a very limited social life).

But there is no burnout problem. You deal with nice folks - and many not nice folks - but at the highest level, so there are social skill/acting failures, but no burnout.

And social skill/acting failures just mean you move on to the next company - rather like the failed CEO who can always get rehired by another company. If in consulting, you can either sell yourself to clients - or you can't - and there is a bit of an oversupply for backroom nerds. But there are always a reasonable number of backroom nerd jobs that need workaholics - albeit relaxed workaholics.

You end up with 3 or 4 persons working for you, with up to 40,000 or more working for you if you have that gift of gab and great social/acting skills. The competition is stiff, but every job is about as political as being an actuary, even college teaching or being a lab scholar for a corporation.

The thing that makes "actuary" special is the - relative to other job paths - near zero barrier to entry. If you have the smarts and are willing to put in an extra 1000 hours a year studying with a 50 % chance of passing each exam you take, you get a ticket allowing entry into the game.

Getting the first job may be a pain - as many want to see that you have passed a few, or at least a couple, of the exams. Non coastal/non-large urban area jobs are less strict about having more than one exam pass at hire - and lower paying.

Other math type professional backgrounds can lead to similar work, but the actuarial job's combination of management responsibility very early on, with real effect on results, means you get an early start on job satisfaction.

But there is a limited number of backroom nerd jobs - and if your pay gets high and they find that backroom nerd is your fate, you will be told to leave and search for the lower paying backroom nerd job, and many folks change careers at this point. Indeed if you love the current geographic area, you may change professions when it is time to move on from the current company.

[MalachiConstant]

4. are the exams really that bad?

I'm starting on the financial math exam and it's somewhat Greek to me. I haven't take any economics courses so a lot of this stuff i'm seeing for the first time. Some people seem to be under the impression that as long as you pick up some study guide or another you should pass. Does it matter if you pass with a 10 or a 7, does that have any bearing on anything?

thanks again

[papau]

5. Getting all "6" means no wasted study - and in the end only the "pass"

means anything. Get enough passes and you are an "Associate of the Society - ASA" - get still more and you are a "Fellow of the Society - FSA". Since the folks feel that no human can learn all there is about every aspect of actuarial work, there are Fellowship "tracks" which can be by country, product line, specialty, etc. - It is a bit like getting multiple Masters to get the Associate - a bit like a PHD to get the Fellowship. And the kicker is it is all for naught if you do not pick up the business/management social skills/acting skills.

The backroom nerd position's that pop up get filled very quickly. A lot of IT professionals come out of the program, once they feel a need to change career paths, or are told to change career paths. Getting hired in a non-coastal/non-urban area is "easier" relative to qualifications, safer relative to firing, but much lower paying. You need at least 2 exams to get hired at most places, but never more than one exam in the rural hearthand.

Getting "6" is no wasted time, but time to fellowship can get very long if one fails a lot.

Indeed employers will give you 4 to 6 weeks off each year to study for the two exam sessions that occur each year.

But failure to pass enough credits in those two sessions in a year can/will mean warning and possibly firing.

Everyone taking the exams is smart - but half or more will fail. A study guide will not get you through an exam. You should expect 400 to 500 hours per session to be spent studying in formal or informal class and at home. The material is not overly tough - but there is a lot of material.

You have no life at the prime of your dating life - it sucks.

Later you find that money and power make you more attractive to the available to mate pool than even your mother thought you were!

Your competition beyond fellow actuaries are lawyers, MBA's, CPA's, operations research/data mining math types, who have management skills. But this the lowest barrier to entry top management position track for ethnic types and body types and parentage types that would otherwise have to get quite lucky.