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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-10-06 10:48 AM
Original message
Is it possible to get psychological counseling...
...for the feeling that trauma is being induced in this oppressive society? I have tried going to psychological professionals about this and they act like I'm just whining. How is it that someone can be absolutely passionate about programming computers since his early teens, doing more advanced work then, 20 years ago, that most employed software engineers do, and that person will not even be considered for an interview after sending out 100s of resumes and applications? This is the most whacked out situation imaginable. As a result of being ignored for so long by potential employers my financial situation is so bad that I apparently will never own a home, will be lucky if I am able to afford a car, and the fact that I will never be able to retire goes without saying. I really do not see what the point is of even trying in such a ridiculous situation. KNOW I could be very beneficial and PROFITABLE to any company that would give me a change yet no company will even bother to glance at me. Yah I'm trying to make my own business which should be up and running in a few months, but if that doesn't work out I don't see the point of life (no innuendos intended). But WHY should I have to start my own company? Why won't anyone over a 5 year period now even bother to talk to me about employment in the field I chose and have been active in since I was a kid? This is almost the most ridiculous insane moranic shit imaginable. Every day I come home tired as hell from and 11 hour a day trying to keep myself awake for 3 hours and do some sophisticated technological work on my project at home, this while trying to attend to my family, while I am forced to do all kinds of stupid dumass work at my job. No opportunity to advance, no appreciation for my potential, nothing but no no no.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-11-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Didn't you just turn down an interview?
I think maybe (and this is not meant to be snarky at all, really) you should consider talking to someone. A few weeks ago you posted a thread about turning down an interview. Why did you do that (turn it down)? (Not grilling here, suggesting this might be something you could talk about to a professional.) From what I recall of the thread, you didn't quite understand why you did it yourself. (It didn't sound the job was just a loser.)

There are also career counselors. People who are skilled at writing resumes and coaching on the interview process. You might want to talk to one of them as well.

I'm sorry for the frustration you feel. And I do hope you consider talking to someone about it.

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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-11-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh ya...
Edited on Thu May-11-06 10:51 AM by djohnson
You got me on that. :) I often get called on when I make absolute statements. I was taught vigorously that absolutes are almost never accurate and therefore tend to believe that is common knowledge so when I make absolute statements I mean to give impressions of the situation but don't intend to be taken literally. Okay, literally, numerically accurate, I have had 1 offer for an interview for a software engineer (or developer of any kind) position in 5 years. You're right, the job sounded great. I shouldn't have turned down the opportunity but I did not know how to react. It's like when a person is imprisoned for so long they don't know how to leave.

The problem is I never get to talk to other programmers. There is always someone with no technical skill whatsoever standing between me and the person I will actually be working with or for. The one time I got to talk to someone with technical skill, above, is the only time I have been offered an interview.

I've tried to find job counselors but haven't found any. There are some services that will help people get low skilled jobs just so they can get off the streets, but no programs that I know of that help people get into more advanced positions. It seems I'd have better chance of getting a skilled job in Iran, Kuwait, Mexico, almost anyplace but here.

Edit: You know, this is all bullshit now anyway. Unless I start my own company, there is no way I can recover financially, and I don't think there is any way I can recover emotionally from the way the workforce has ignored and shunned me and prevented me from having any opportunity for so long; I could be offered a real job tomorrow, and it wouldn't make a difference. What is so wrong with wanting to do something advanced and innovative like researching new technologies and trying to make the world a better place. It's fine if I had no vision or important goals but anyone (or probably just me) wanting to actually accomplish something important can just forget it.


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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Would you rather have had around 15 unsuccessful interviews?
I have been unhappy with my job and have been looking for some time. I get interviews, but evidently they don't like me once they meet me. With around half of them, I might have gotten the job if they hadn't asked me how much money I wanted and then acted like I was being greedy or something. It is discouraging though. I admit that I sometimes fear getting the job since I do have anxiety problems and feel like I have gotten into such a groove with my current job that I wouldn't be able to handle something different. Maybe that shows in the interview.
Anyway, don't give up. Don't turn down interviews either. As I said in my other post, if you don't want the job, you can always turn it down.
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-14-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. That would be less discouraging, I think.
If you know you're being turned down because of your pay requirement then actually you are turning them down. You're saying you could have had the jobs if you'd accepted less money? I learned recently, when someone calls, to just ask how much a job pays up front since it often will nix your interest and save a lot of time.

Being completely ignored is different. When you were a kid did other kids ever play that game where they pretend to completely ignore someone just to annoy the other kid? That's what this feels like. The only difference is that game just annoyed the kid a little. In this case it affects the entire lives of myself and my family.

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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. I understand your frustration.
I don't think the problem is you; the problem is that so many jobs (I.T. & non-I.T.) are being offshored/inshored. And yet the MSM keeps quoting this nazi administration's BS about the unemployment nos. being low & that the economy is "booming". Bullshit. It's an incredibly frustrating feeling & people who haven't lost their jobs yet may have no idea how it feels. I think it's about as hard to get a job in this economy as it was during the 1st Great Depression. Anyone who's unemployed knows the job market is extremely bad & it's been bad since at least '01. I too am looking for employment, & living w/relatives who still believe that GW Hoover walks on water & are Faux "news" Kool-Aid drinkers. :eyes:

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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-18-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. self-delete (accidental dbl-posting)
Edited on Thu May-18-06 03:04 PM by area51
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-19-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. I hope you will consider these steps.
Edited on Fri May-19-06 12:41 PM by CBHagman
If you have insurance, please consider going in for a physical just to evaluate your overall health and see whether there are any other factors at play in your suffering. I'm not suggesting meds or anything, but depression can indicate other problems. If you have an internist you can trust, all the better.

Secondly, it might help for you to work with a cognitive therapist. A lot of what you wrote in your original post suggested that your suffering is partly affected by your thinking. See the following link.

On edit: Cognitive therapy works on our thought patterns, approaches, and beliefs that make our lives a living hell. It is meant to provide relief and also a more practical approach to living. David Burns (Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy) has several readable works and how-to books on the topic.

http://www.mental-health-today.com/Healing/cog.htm

From the link:

This is list of things we tell ourselves to make us depressed, anxious, guilty or angry.

1.ALL-OR-NOTHING THINKING:

You see things in black and white categories. If your performance falls short of perfect, you see yourself as a total failure.

2.OVERGENERALIZATION:

You see a single negative event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.

3.MENTAL FILTER:

You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors the entire beaker of water.

4.DISQUALIFYING THE POSITIVE:

You reject positive experiences by insisting they "don't count" for some reason or another. In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your everyday experiences.

5.JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS:

You make a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion.

Mind Reading: You arbitrarily conclude that someone is reacting negatively to you, and you don't bother to check this out.

The Fortune Teller Error: You anticipate that things will turn out badly, and you feel convinced that your prediction is an already established fact.

6.MAGNIFICATION (CATASTROPHIZING) OR MINIMIZATION:

You exaggerate the importance of things (such as your goof-up or someone else's achievement) or you inappropriately shrink things until they appear tiny (your own desirable qualities or the other fellow's imperfections). This is also called the "binocular trick."

7.EMOTIONAL REASONING:

You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: "I feel it, therefore it must be true."

8.SHOULD STATEMENTS:

You try to motivate yourself with shoulds and shouldn'ts, as if you had to be whipped and punished before you could be expected to do anything. "Musts" and "oughts" are also offenders. The emotional consequence is guilt. When you direct should statements toward others, you feel anger, frustration, and resentment.

9.LABELING AND MISLABELING:

This is an extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of describing your error, you attach a negative label to yourself: "I'm a loser." When someone else's behavior rubs you the wrong way, you attach a negative label to him: "He's a goddam louse." Mislabeling involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.

10.PERSONALIZATION:

You see yourself as the cause of some negative external event which in fact you were not primarily responsible for.


Thirdly, is there somewhere you could go to work on your networking technique and/or small business development, so that you're not dependent on sending out resumes? It's an issue a lot of us struggle with.

Please let us know how you are doing. I want things to work out for you.
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-21-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks for caring....
Your suggestions are respectfully noted. I agree with most everything on that list. But I think cognitive therapy techniques need to be revised in order to help sane people living in an insane world. I know I'm asking for help, suggesting that I have mental problems, but I am actually suggesting that a whole new branch of pyschotherapy needs to be created.

To most people, it seems life is just a game in which whoever has the most toys wins, and to them I am just a loser of that game; and apparently they are laughing a me, the idiot, who has some discretion with regard to what I should do with my life... but there I go using the word 'should', which the list above warns against. But progress is based on the word 'should'. We 'should' build energy efficient cars; people 'should' get more exercise; people 'should' not be greedy, etc. You see I don't see 'should's as bad. Maybe I'm taking those instructions out of context. But I tend to be suspicious of these self help lists. Many of them try to get people to fit corporate agenda. There really is one piece of advice that I think people need: "follow your dreams and never give up." But now, how many people even have dreams anymore? I don't know of anyone who has something important they want to accomplish -- I'm sure many people exist who want to accomplish things but I don’t know of any... it's not exactly commonplace. The fact that I want to accomplish things makes me a freak, apparently.

Your third suggestion is great, but with an 11 hour work day, and a family, it is difficult to make time for networking meetings. When I went to one a few times, the people turned out to be really depressing. Maybe a different one would be better, one that is more focused. You see I'm around a lot of really spoiled folk, who were once accustomed to making 100k-300k per year, and these people are all upset that they can't continue making webpages for that much money. You see, all I want to do is be a computer programmer. That is not asking a lot. I am not asking to make huge sums of money. It's just, that is what I trained myself to do over the course of my entire life, and I see all kinds of jobs posted and other people getting those jobs but I'm not even asked in for an interview. That's all I do -- program computers -- when I finish writing this I will go back to programming on my own project. It pisses me off, to an extent most people can't imagine, that in a few hours I will have to stop programming and go to sleep, to prepare for my grunt work tomorrow. I want to do high level work, that's what I do in my spare time. I steal time from my employer you see, when nobody is looking I am programming -- I'm not suposed to do that -- I'm supposed to do grunt work. I might get fired because I'm programming and not doing grunt work like I should. It's like people who must their hide books from the government because they aren't supposed to be able to read. I'm not allowed to make anything out of my life. They don't want me to. They want me to do grunt chores. I'm not endowed by manifest destiny like they are, apparently. I am 'of the lower class' and that's it. The idea that I could be anything more is utterly ridiculous to them. Are people laughing at me for being such a failure? Is this funny to them? There are people who don't even like technology working with technology and they must really think I'm an idiot. I'm not even given a chance to compete. The people around me really are spoiled... I did not have access to the things they had access to growing up. You don't understand the details but I assure you that I was not spoiled the way most people around me were.

My word selection may be violating a lot of tenants on the list above, but I am just listing the facts. At this point even if I got a job in my chosen field I would need something like post traumatic stress syndrome therapy to overcome the trauma. Actually I have been destroyed already, and I don't see any hope to happily embark on a career. My only option is to go into business for myself. Nobody else will help me, so that's all I can do.
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-22-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think you need more support!
Dear djohnson, I know that when things are going badly, it can be rough to hear/read someone's suggestions that you do A, B, and C, and all will be well. So please bear in mind that anything I write here is meant to be put to use or discarded, depending on your individual circumstances.

I'm going to mull over what you wrote. But the thought occurs to me that if there were some way to free up a portion of your time (perhaps by delegating some task), that you would find it easier to build support, either through counseling, networking, badly needed rest, or something else, into your day.

Again, my sincere wishes for a good solution to your current dilemmas.

CBH

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