Potential Opportunity for the GOP to link Hillary to Abramoff

[Ignacio Upton]

Apprently, according to one Daily Kos diarist, Hillary was given money from the Tan family, a wealthy textile group that operates in the Mariana Islands. They also have ties to Jack Abramoff and to Tom DeLay. Now, I don't know why exactly they would donate money to Hillary (the dates of the family member's donations, interestingly, coincides with the week after Tom DeLay's indictment....maybe they donated to her to give bipartisan "cover" to help the GOP) but this has the potential to be used against us in a "Abramoff helped both sides" bullshit meme. Deborah Howell will be licking her chops once she get a hold of this. So will Chris Matthews and Wolf Blitzer. If this situation is what the Daily Kos diarist claims it is, then Hillary must give back all of the Tan money. We already have Cynthia McKinney and Mollohan in trouble in ways that could undermine us fighting against the corrupt Republicans, but we don't need another "Democrats took Abramoff-related money" talkingpoint.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/22/22836/4229

Note: PLEASE DON'T TURN THIS INTO A HILLARY-BASHING THREAD. It's bad enough that the knee-jerk Hillary-haters over at DKos did this to the diarist's thread. Please, use constructive criticism of Hillary, and be sure to call her office and notify her that she has tainted money, and ask her to give it back!

[msgadget]

1. Okay,

My first question is, how can a candidate claiming to be pro-worker explain taking money from a business on the Mariana Islands? Giving it back wouldn't do it especially since she gave back the Abramoff money. She can't say she didn't know a second time without appearing dim.

[seabeyond]

4. that is just bullshit. i will wait for information on this

she gets a donation. i have received a hillary donate to letter and i am in the panhandle of texas. how would she know who i was connected to or friends with if i sent in 2000?

[msgadget]

8. Respectfully, it is not

When you donate to a candidate you have to provide your personal information as EACH MEMBER (all five, each donating the maximum) of the Tan family did. Her staff was easily able to identify and return the Abramoff donations. Also, I'm sure the candidates are able to cull their lists for those who donate above a certain amount so as to solicit them in the future.

[linazelle]

10. "Respectfully" my ass. Get off the Hillary haters bandwagon. n/t

[Ignacio Upton]

12. Now, I do not want this to turn into a Hillary-bashing thread

Both of you should stop argueing, and give Hillary constructive criticism without blurting out: "she's not a progressive!" or "I hope this derails her for 2008."

[msgadget]

17. Thank you, Ignacio

for wanting to keep this civil but I didn't argue with or bash anyone - not even Hillary. Two people joined the thread with flame throwers loaded.

[msgadget]

13. No.

Stop worshipping mortals.

[linazelle]

16. I don't worship Hillary or anyone else. The point is there's enough

shit going on with Bush that is NEVER addressed--like Abramoff himself. And we are supposed to entertain this tripe instead? Take this shit where it belongs. And that's not here.

[msgadget]

18. Granted but I didn't BASH her

I asked QUESTIONS. Ignacio wants us to DISCUSS this and that's what I'm trying to do.

[linazelle]

21. You fanned the flames. n/t

[msgadget]

22. How? Oh, wait, I dared suggest a politician may be less than saintly...

while still trying to figure out if there's any merit to the Kos bash-fest. Did you do that or did you just react?

[linazelle]

23. Pfffft. The bottom line is: Hillary is not "on the take"--smearfest. nt

[msgadget]

27. Are you actually reading this whole thread or is it your purpose to

defend Hillary...just in case? Suppose there was reliable, incontrovertible proof, would you want to read about it or would you continue to defend her? As it happens there is no such proof and she hasn't been indicted of anything within this discussion.

[oasis]

2. If this had any merit Hillary's staff would have alerted her when the

Abramoff story first broke. Hill has a crack staff working for her, they don't miss a thing.

[Ignacio Upton]

6. Even the best campaigners have faults

I think that her staffers don't even know who the Tans are!

[mdmc]

3. Hillary is going to be re-elected

but will she beat Chuck Schumer's margins over Richard Mills? Hillary should be able to do this, because the gop don't even have Lazio against her this year.

[Ignacio Upton]

5. This won't affect her re-election

Especially since John Spencer has scandals worse than this. However, it will undermine our overall arguement that the Republican leadership is corrupt, because now the pundits can pull up this factoid and shout to the public that the scandal is "bipartisan." They are already trying to stop us with Cynthia McKinney and Brian Mollohan.

[BayCityProgressive]

7. If Hillary

took money from someone in the Marianas that is very sad. I actually like her and am not one of her bashers. However, if she is taking donations form these slave islands I will not be able to support her. There is just no excuse for that.

[Ignacio Upton]

9. Ditto.

I think that the donations were given to her and Hillary did a piss-poor job of checking them. Either that, or she was ignorant enough then not to know about the family's connections.

[msgadget]

11. The question

is WHY the Tans felt contributing to her would benefit them? To ask is not bashing,it's asking! Why the heck would they? Unless, as a lot of companies do, they gave an equal amount to the opposition. That happens a lot.

[Ignacio Upton]

15. I think they contributed to her to cover their asses

And to help out their allies. The Indian tribes were instructed by Abramoff to continue donating to Democrats to make themselves look bipartisan/ I think that the Tans donated to Hillary to make themselves look bipartisan, or maybe they are stupid enough to think that Hillary will help them legislatively (which is not the case, since she does not have a cozy DeLay-like friendship with them.) Notice that they all donated around the same three-day period. I think that they coordinated this.

[msgadget]

20. I agree, that makes sense

Do you think giving it back will help her or will it generate more publicity? This could stick to her no matter what she does.

[Ignacio Upton]

26. Well the fact that she already took their donations puts her in a no-win

spot. Giving it back is the best thing that she can do, unforunately. If she keeps it, then it becomes an issue that the Repubs can use against her in her Senate race and against us a broad group. If she gives it back, it will undermine us whenever we campaign against somebody like Burns or Ney. Burn could just say "look, Hillary took money from them too, so I didn't do anything bad."

[msgadget]

29. Yeah,

too bad, it'll affect more than just her...

[napi21]

14. Hmmm, Maybe Hill has some 'spanin to do here. Look at this.

http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/Comment/ByronYork/031606.html

The article is way too long to copy here, but it does connect some dots.

Yes, I know, it's Byron York.

[Ignacio Upton]

19. Don't read what York says

Wait for a progressive to analyze it. I think that York is going on a stretch to argue that they are long-time friends. If she was really friends with the Tan family, then she would have acted to helpe them legislatively.

[msgadget]

24. Well, regardless his credibility,

it's obvious the GOP has an answer to 'culture of corruption'.

[linazelle]

25. Hillary is the answer to the culture of corruption? That's your assertion?

[msgadget]

28. LOL! You are relentlessly defensive

Feisty this evening, huh? :) The campaign theme ala Pelosi, the 'culture of corruption', will be turned back on the dems using this questionable donation. It's thin but the GOP will run with it like it's actually a big deal.

[Ignacio Upton]

30. Don't forget Cynthia McKinney and Brian Mollohan

The only reason why the Tan money isn't being reporting with frenzy by the Mainstream Media right now is because Abramoff hasn't been in the news as much in the last couple of weeks, and because most of the news around him has focused on the casinos. This will soon turn to the Marianas abuses, and as soon as we bring up Abramoff in an ad against Conrad Burns or Bob Ney, the Hillary-Tan deal will surface.

[msgadget]

31. I'm not familiar with Brian Mollohan

and are you saying they fanned the McKinney incident to smear the dems?

[Ignacio Upton]

32. Kick!

The truth on this topic must be resolved so we don't have to worry about it anymore.

[Ignacio Upton]

33. Kick!

This must not be ignored. If we want to stop the GOP from making this into a future talkingpoint.

[Imagevision]

34. Someone had some foresight?

[AtomicKitten]

35. sounds like it's at LEAST third degree of separation

but the Republicans are desperate, so look for it on a newscast near you soon.

[Ignacio Upton]

36. It doesn't matter

Even if Hillary doesn't know who the donation is from (which is not 100% impossible, considering how many different people donate) she should still return the money, because unlike the Tribes that were represented by Abramoff, the Tans are under investigation for sweatshop labor practices

[AtomicKitten]

37. agreed - one should avoid the appearance of evil if possible

However, I also fully understand Harry Reid's refusal to return donations since he has done much work for the tribes in his state. He believes it would be hypocritical and a knee-jerk reaction in his particular case, and I agree.

Hillary is mindful of her Ps & Qs and I'm reasonably certain she'll do the right thing.

[stillcool]

38. at this point....I could give a *

how many of these 'type' of stories have come out ole Hil...the 'game' of politics...the orchestrated drama...is getting sooooo old and trite. How will I ever make it through the elections this fall.....having to dodge, bobble, weave, and wade through this crap? How's that plan to limit lobbyists influence going?