What is the real problem: Lack of Gun Control, or the War on Drugs

[Jack_DeLeon]

Apparently there are some people who think that guns are bad mkay and that the most important thing in the world is to restrict them. From what I've seen of those type of people they seem to believe that once guns are gone all will be right in the world.

I contend that alot of the crime and problems in our society are caused by the war on drugs. Prohibition only makes dealing in the now illegal goods highly profitable, and people will do all kinds of things for money.

So what do yall think?

[babylonsister]

1. Neither. The problem is the blivet and his choices. nt

[DanCa]

2. I dont know . I am still trying to figure out...

how a person can be both prolife and progun. My head hurts when I try to figure that one out.

[Warpy]

3. The war on drugs

Eliminate that sucker and you'll end the reason for a lot of the gun violence out there from turf wars from rival drug gangs and from paranoid dealers and trigger happy drug cops.

It's unconstitutional and completely out of character for a "free" country to regulate what its citizens decide to do recreationally with their own bodies.

Other than assuring purity and potency and controlling it well enough that it's restricted to adults, the government should have little to do with it. It would be nice if national health, when we get it, uses nominal taxes on recreational drugs to finance substance abuse treatment for the small percentage of people who invariably will run into trouble with it.

Keeping guns out of the hands of felons, children and crazy people should be simple common sense. Ending the drug war should be, also. We lost.

[Jackpine Radical]

4. I probly don't have any significant arguments with what you say.

I support legalization, taxation & control of commercial pot (permitting people to grow their own if so inclined), and decrim of other stuff so if you have an addiction you can get a prescription & a cheap supply so you don't have to rip off my stuff to support your habit.

I think we have enough gun control laws. I'm really ambivalent about concealed carry. Don't really want it but not willing to lose a whole lot of votes by opposing it, at least in the absence of good evidence that CC actually makes the world more dangerous.

[DrBloodmoney]

5. War on Drugs... without a doubt

Former replies by me in the same vein:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2240006&mesg_id=2240184

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x994780#994848

Please, please visit:

http://www.leap.cc
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/
http://www.csdp.org/
http://www.drugpolicy.org/homepage.cfm

[SlipperySlope]

6. False choice

We do not have a "lack of gun control". Instead, we have too much gun control.

Therefore, the first choice you present is by definition false.

That leaves whatever you put in the second space in your sentence as the default choice, which really isn't any choice at all.

It's like saying "What's a bigger problem, that mammals breath oxygen, or clubbing baby seals"?

[dysfunctional press]

7. Global warming is issue numbers 1-100

guns are NOT going to go away. laws need to be enforced, and common-sense restrictions/safeguards put into place.

the war on drugs is a drain on resources. pot should be legalized, harder drugs controlled and treated primarily as a health, not crime, issue. although there would still be laws, as with other prescription meds.

[Retired AF Dem]

23. "common-sense restrictions/safeguards put into place"

My problem with this is very few politicians have any common sense.

[simonm]

8. Agree 100%

In my younger days there were folks pushing drugs down the street.

Take away the financial incentive for selling drugs and the dealers will need to find something else to do. I believe if our government legalized, controlled, and taxed these drugs accordingly, society would be much better off.

We can also use the same funds for investing in the community through educational programs. With education, people have more choices in life and are less likely to turn towards crime.

I see the lack of opportunity as the real problem and not guns.

[Random_Australian]

9. Guns bad, War on Drugs bad, why should solving one

prevent the solution of the other?

Edit: I you take the 'guns bad' approach.

[Jack_DeLeon]

12. I think you are mistaken...

I support the right to keep and bear arms, and I think we already have enough gun control if not too much.

I believe the war on drugs is causing all kind of problems in our country and because of our country's actions in pushing the drug war worldwide it causes problems for people all around the world.

It just distrubs me that some democrats would rather take away some rights away from individuals in the mistaken notion that it will make things better when they turn a blind eye to what causes more of the real problems.

I cant say I hear too many anti-gun advocates calling to end the war on drugs. So it would appear they would rather disarm people and then leave the problems in place that cause alot of the crime in our society.

Most often those who are disarmed and/or kept ignorant of thier right to keep and bear arms are the poor, and IMO they are the ones that need that right the most since the police are least likely to help them.

[Random_Australian]

13. Ah, I see. That's fair enough. I had not realised that the War On

Drugs thing had any popularity at all amongst the left. Fair enough.

I'll leave the guns differences argument to another day.... it is not considered a right here, incidentally.

[walldude]

10. Wanna solve the defecit? Legalize!

They could legalize and tax the hell out of drugs. Users will still get them cheaper and safer and the government could make a fortune.

As far as guns go, I'm all for people being allowed to own a gun. However, I'm not stupid, a gun is a lethal weapon and ownership is a responsibility. I think a short safety class and a quick backround check aren't too much to ask before handing a gun to someone. Any responsible gun owner would agree with me. I hear people on the right pissing and moaning about backround checks. I have a friend who just bought a .50 caliber handgun. This thing is a freakin cannon, he bought it at Bass Pro Shops and had to wait all of 45 minutes for his backround check.

[Asgaya Dihi]

11. War on drugs

The war on drugs reaches into everyones life, world wide. Solve that and many other problems are reduced in the process. It's somewhere around 8% of all international trade so finances terrorists and organized crime world wide, much of the weaponry we've faced over the years came from those profits. It's decimated many communities with three strikes laws and made us the most imprisoned nation in the world, and for every young man or woman locked up there's a good chance we've got hidden victims with the spouses and children left behind.

It's linked to war, poverty, crime, and the militarization of our police. Worst of all it's accomplished nothing, check out the death rate trends over the war on drugs. As users got stupid and purity rose so did the death rates. Most charts are click-able and lead to more info, the site is a goldmine overall.

http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/death/drug-death.htm

Just regulate the stuff, we can protect our kids better than street criminals can which is what we have now.

[mntleo2]

14. Both

I think if training was given with guns it helps. I used to be a sharp shooter (couldn't hit the broad side of a barn now and do not have any guns in my vicinity, lol). But the things I was taught, about safety, about how to clean a gun, about how to carry one, was a good way to teach me a healthy respect of the power of a gun.

As for drugs. If people would only be realistic, that would be a start. First of all, perhaps if the real benefits as well as the problems with drugs were discussed, it would help. Like that your body needs about twice the amount of opiates as the last time they were taken ~ and this is the reason there are so many overdoses. However, opiates do little damage to the body such as tobacco or alcohol do (cancer, liver damage) and it is one of the safest painkillers around if used properly. Ibuprofin damages the liver, and has never been proven as being much of a painkiller ~ but some people benefit from it. Jacking up the price of drugs by making it illegal is asking for crime.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[Asgaya Dihi]

22. Actually

That's a common perception and a part of why reform is hard at times, but fortunately it's not true.

They've done tests in a number of nations that allowed addicts as much heroin as they want, two that I'll link here for you are from Sweden and from Britain. We've done it in the past in the US as well, it was strongly supported by the communities practiced in but shut down by the feds.

System perspective in Sweden
http://www.dpft.org/heroin.htm

Addicts story in Britain
http://www.dpft.org/anaddictsstory.htm

What they found was that rather than doses escalating out of control as people feared they settled into a basic use rate with many reducing use and some progressing to abstinence. The other main benefits of the Swiss study were as follows

* Sharply reduced criminal behavior by participants.
* The ability to stabilize many addicts at a low enough level so they can return to normal work. Legal employment rose sharply.
* No overdose deaths among participants in five years.
* Major financial savings in reduced costs for health care and policing.
* Marked decrease in drug use and a small but significant number who progressed to abstinence.
* Homelessness among participants was virtually eradicated.
* The illegal markets were deprived of a portion of their normal customers and profits. But only wide scale expansion could make this a major blow to the cartels.
* Concerns about doses escalating out of control proved to be unfounded, and most participants achieved stable doses in 2 to 4 months.

The program started with about 1% of the addicts enrolled as a test, after a three year trial voters were offered a choice to shut it down or expand it. The program was expanded with over 70% of the vote including the support of the local police who had started as skeptics.

It's uncomfortable given what we've grown up with, but it's been tried and works a lot better than what we're doing now.

[951-Riverside]

15. They can keep the drugs but gun.... hmmmm

America is going down hill fast with Bush at helm if I had a gun (I don't) I wouldnt very happy giving it away to the government.

[sweetheart]

16. agreed, the WOD is the worst

The war on drugs touches the life of every single american,
pretty much every person on earth is made war against,
and this creates a huge illegally enforced marketplace
where guns are the only law.

The people in government are just so stupid, in their
corporate bullshit and silly laws, that what is one
to do but shrug and expect more mind knumbing destructive
behaviour.

[lildreamer316]

17. Definatley the war on drugs.

this is the root of many of the problems. Of course; then one has to go to the reason ppl are taking the drugs in the first place; which is a whole other ballgame. I dunno; but making it illegal does not help.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

18. It's not an either/or question.

Decent federal gun control would undoubtedly do a lot to reduce the number of shootings in America, but a) it would be far from a panacea and b) it's not going to happen, alas.

Increased tolerance of drug use might also help reduce other kinds of crime, but equally it might lead to more of it; it's not clear to me which side is right on that one.

However, the two have very little to do with one another.

[rman]

19. Both

The war on drugs is a scam, as many seem to be well aware of.

Lack of gun control is as idiotic as lack of 'car control' (driver's license etc) would be.

[0007]

20. We're living in backward times with screwballs making laws.

Drugs should never be a crime. The drug war only proved it is big business where supply and demand made the greedy wealthy. The legalization of marijuana is way over due. Any addiction should be a health problem and treated as such. Never prison.

[Jose Diablo]

21. Agree, the profit created by "The War on Drugs"

In areas that have little economic opportunities is what is ripping those communities to death.

End the profit, then deal with reasons why people would seek-out escapes from reality to solve the drug problem.

I think the biggest problem is the inability to form achievable dreams within the bounds acceptable social contracts is why people seek to numb their minds from reality. And thats why people seek-out Dr. Feel Good.

Education needs work. College should be public, public money going to private schools should be redirected back to public schools. A hard look at how private corporations profit from public eduction needs examination (kick-backs?).

There are many other areas, that 'the people' have legitimate complants regarding their treatment by government agents.

But first and foremost, is the reicht-wing criminalization of 'soft' drugs. Nancy Reagan's (actually I think this is Bu$h the Elders doing) Just Say No, is pure BS.