Vaguely upsetting conversation with my barber...

[PCIntern]

I've been going to him for more than 30 years - he's got a lot of verve, quasi-bright in a street-smart way without pretending to be a Sopranos star, gets the right feel for his clients, and pretty much has a good, working class take on the pragmatic nature of the world. He's politically conservative but it seemed to me more in the old style of Republicanism - you know, low taxes, stay out of my business and my private life - remember the good old days?

Well, I was a bit surprised when he said, no lie, "There's one guy in Washington you have to give credit to - Bush - because right or wrong he has guts and he doesn't care what people think whether he did the right thing or completely screwed everything up."

I felt as though I had been eviscerated because although I know that there are a great many Americans who feel that if you play a John Wayne Movie Character, then you get full credit no matter what, coming upon them is still difficult because it just doesn't make any damned sense. what I wanted to say to him was, "If your kid defied you and screwed up every life decision he made IN YOUR FACE, and was bold about it, would you have the same respect?"

And I realized that the answer would be, "Yes. It's his bed and he can lie in it."

It's just so very sad...

[fudge stripe cookays]

1. Sorry, even after 30 years of history,

I'd find a new barber.

I don't want idiots touching my hair.

[PCIntern]

4. Great barber...

I forgot to say that.

[fudge stripe cookays]

34. Can't be that great...

if you feel sick in the pit of your stomach now after visiting him, can he?

[Olney Blue]

2. Good move. Never argue politics with someone holding scissors.

:)

[PCIntern]

5. Olney:

You from Philly?

[Olney Blue]

13. No. I was born in Alabama and been living in Maryland 20 years.

But I love Philly cheesesteak sandwiches. Does that count? :)

[PCIntern]

17. yes

soft pretzels too!

[peekaloo]

3. Yeah the Bu$hbots I know view this as a sign of Boo$h's "integrity".

:hug:

[OhioNerd]

6. You know, like a lot of Veterans...

You know, like a lot of Veterans I'm very "Pro-2nd Amendment".
That doesn't stop me from eating Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream.

This is your Barber, who has a different political viewpoint. Not your wife, who just confessed to screwing the mailman. You dig?

[PCIntern]

7. No no no...

I didn't say I was severing the relationship, as it were, my point was that ou get disappointed b/c people you think have a certain point of view which is at variance with yours, often come up logically short.

what he said makes no sense...if you believe that Iraq was a threat, I disagree with you but I understand how you buy into crap like that. But this is a meta-issue which governs the logical process, not the content.

[OhioNerd]

38. Well you know... People are going to disappoint you.

I know what you mean about logically short.

Take for instance the guy who, I am reasonably sure, was trying to imply that I was a freaker because I support the ENTIRE constitution, not just the part he likes.

I suppose he could make the same complaint about me. After all, I donate to both the ACLU and the NRA. I would imagine that the poster in question would find that logically inconsistant

I think that what I'm getting at is this: People are, by their nature, logically inconsistant. This barber... he does a good job with your hair? Treats you honestly? Doesn't to your knowledge go around kicking dogs? Then don't sweat it. And if it still bothers you, have you considered simply trying to explain your viewpoint better? Maybe he just needs more information.


By the way, does your screenname have anything to do with your job?

[BillZBubb]

23. Just a question...

Why are you here? You don't sound like a progressive. Just asking.

[PCIntern]

25. who are you asking...?

not sure...

[BillZBubb]

32. I was asking the guy who responded to you.

He included some pretty RW stuff not too subtly in his message: "2nd amendment rights" blah, blah. "Atheists are" blah, blah. etc.

[PatGund]

48. And your point is???

There's Democrats that are also pro-Second Amendment. And Liberals that are gun owners. So?

[benEzra]

50. Half of gun owners are NOT repubs, dude...

including this one.

Between a quarter and a third of registered Dems own guns, IIRC.

[OhioNerd]

37. Just another question...

Are you trying to imply something?

Because if you have something to say, then have the courage of your convictions and SAY it.

Otherwise, back off. I don't come here to get attacked.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioNerd]

46. No, you didn't say what you meant.

What you MEANT to do was call me a freaker. You didn't do that because it's against the rules, so instead you're trying to bait me into a fight.

By the way, the atheism quote you're whining about is from The Daily Show and the Amendment you're whining about is from the Constitution. Heard of it?


We're done here. Buh-Bye.

[wakeme2008]

8. I woud have told him after I got out of the chair

fuck off asshole.... and found a new barber..

[PCIntern]

9. You guys are really tough...

If I only did business with Dems, I'd be in trouble.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

18. I know what the OP is trying to say. You have one impression

about someone after a lengthy time only to be surprised it isn't exactly what you thought it was. He thought his barber was a moderate Republican only to find that he has a view that is completely contrary to that previous perceived view. Anyone who thinks that Chucklenuts is "steadfast" after six long, error-filled years would cause me to re-evaluate my opinion of the person. Would I swear off all contact, no, but I would lose a measure of respect of him and his intelligence. Sorry, I might still do business with them but they would fall in my estimation.

I recently started reading a book by an author I had enjoyed in the past. It was a quasi-political, spy thriller fiction but in the first five pages the author had made a totally lame slam at Hillary Clinton (throw away line completely unnecessary to the plot) and was praising Chucklenuts. Put the book down right then and there and have no intentions of picking it up again. I will not be bying the gy's books again. The author can tell a story, can even give his views but to take cheap, mean shots at someone just because he has a blank page to fill and a publisher willing to print it is off my list of must reads.

[PCIntern]

27. Ed Zachary...

I feel exactly the same way when I see that or someone says something like that. You get a gut wrench...

[Warpy]

10. I might have asked him if he felt the same way about

Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, or Saddam Hussein.

Of course, I'd have to find another barber after that.

[Mountainman]

11. I can't understand that kind of thinking. They would never say that about

someone else who screwed up things. "Well you got to give the doctor credit, he took out the wrong organs but right or wrong he doesn't care what people think." "Well you got to give that cop credit, he shot the wrong man but right or wrong he doesn't care what people think." Well you got to give that umpire credit, he made a bad call but right or wrong he doesn't care what people think." Well you got to give my boss credit, when he fired me he fired the wrong guy but right or wrong he doesn't care what I think."

[PCIntern]

14. very nice...good one.

[Jade Fox]

15. Good point.....

When there are OTHER PEOPLE who suffer because of someone's screw-ups, saying you admire them for sticking to their guns anyway is sick.

[DS1]

12. Next time you go in for a haircut

let him give you one, then punch him in the face and take his money and tell him you don't give a got-damn what he thinks

*not really*

[sandnsea]

16. That's 5 year old stubbornness

Not guts. Guts is when you screw everything up, admit it and take responsibility for it, and make changes. Next time you go see him, remind him of what guts really is.

[Individualist]

19. And you said...?

My hairdresser is a repug (I live in a heavily repug area). A couple of times she made comments praising the maniac in the White House, and each time I replied with facts. She hasn't brought up the topic of politics in a very long time. I will not remain silent when people spout reich wing BS, no matter who says it.

[napi21]

20. Your barber sounds like he has a REAL TX mindset to me!

Certainly not EVERY Texan believes those things, but there does seem to be a lot of the macho John Wayne, Texas Ranger attitude amoung the locals.

You have no chance of changing his belief in Shrub, no matter what you say. If you like him as a barber, keep going back, just don't talk politics.

[fudge stripe cookays]

33. Geez.

Can we please stop this crap? There are plenty of Texans on this board, and none of us carry this attitude. There are plenty of Texans who are holdovers from the Barbara Jordan, LBJ, Sam Rayburn days.

There's a big difference between having an independent "Texan" spirit and supporting a homicidal maniac in the White House. This is SO not helpful. Being a native Texan (37 years out of 40), I really find it offensive.

[napi21]

35. I didn't mean to offend you. I lived in Texas too.

Not as long ass you, but 9 years. I didn't say ALL Texans have that attitude either, but I sure saw a lot of them who did when I lived there!

I was transferred to San Antonio, and it took my husband 5 months to find a job. He was not a happy camper when a lot of the places he applied told him they only hired native Texans!

I appologize if I offended you, because I didn't mean to. Please try to understand that Shrub and his cohorts in crime don't do much for the reputation of the State either!

[Horse with no Name]

21. I think the point that you should have made is a simple one

That it takes guts to uphold personal convictions, however, it takes arrogance to uphold personal agendas.

[seabeyond]

22. he says out loud bush screws up and then pats him on the back

that takes the cake in stupidity. even wrong he holds to it and gotta admire that. break it down for the man. what thinking person would say it is a good thing to hold to a wrong?

[jean]

24. "...he has guts and doesn't care" - ask the barber what he considers to be

bush's screw ups. He can use those examples to explain why having the guts to completely screw everything up is an strong quality in a world leader. But first, he needs to identify what he's referring to. His idea of screwing up and yours are probably very different.

[elehhhhna]

26. THE SAME can be said of Saddam and Osama:

"...right or wrong he has guts and he doesn't care what people think whether he did the right thing or completely screwed everything up."

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

28. While I can understand what you think his answer would be...he'd be wrong

Assuming that he would answer: "Yes. It's his bed and he can lie in it."...
That attitude your barber has is quite horrid, becuase Bush is not being held responsible for his
actions and his decisions affect not just him (his "bed") but billions of people. (our "bed")

I'd find a new barber.

[msgadget]

29. Wow, so it's not just the fundies hanging on,

it's also those who admire his inflexibility. There is something to that, if I find a politician who has shown resolve in the face of opposition and whose record is consistent it might suggest character (but not this guy).

[Hamlette]

30. keep going to him, use it as an experiment: "how to reach Bushbots"

the analogy to the kid is not right, I actually agree with him on that, the correct analogy is: would you say the same thing if your kid stole your all you money, spent it by starting a war that killed your other son and poisoned your water and air so your grandkids will suffer, but he was in your face about it, would you support him?

You could say: "Yeah, he's just like Saddam, he didn't care what the polls said either."

Or, you can try to point out how what Bush does hurts us.

Or, if you can't communicate, build yourself up, talking about what you do that is great (or other Dems) and remind him you are a liberal..."introduce" him to someone who he should otherwise "hate" and make him like you.

[Neil Lisst]

31. AFTER the haircut, THEN you unload

Starting with "are you out of your damn mind?!"

[ThomWV]

36. Well then, let him fuck up his own life and leave my Country alone

Would have to be my answer.

[Cleita]

39. A lot of small business owners buy into the Republican

BS because they promise less government interference in their businesses. The truth is that the small business owner needs extra help to compete with the large corporations, who actually get more welfare from the government. I think the Democrats are overlooking this demography and should be going after them with truth serum.

The small business owner will get more fines and other government oversight than say WalMart because of WalMart' connections. It's time to let the small business owner know that the Republicans make them pay more taxes and follow more regulations than the behemouths because the behemouths have bought off the Republican Party.

I could write a detailed book of how this happens but this is about all I can squeeze in for a small post.

[PCIntern]

40. Sissy Doody Crap...

I wrote this whole long post about how great this community is, blah blah blah, and how we are a diverse group with brains and anger, and that the Freepers have the latter but not the former, etc., and it got wiped out when I uploaded it, or tried to.

I don't have the patience right now to rewrite it...'cause I've been at work all day, but you guys are really interesting as a bunch, and many of you individually.

What a great place this is...

[Cleita]

41. All my empathy for you as one who has had many a long

post disappear forever when I post directly. I have learned the hard way to write any posts that might be longer than a paragraph on my Word processor first so if it disappears it's still there. Also, hitting the back button sometimes helps if you catch it in time.

:hug:

[JVS]

42. So how does you hair look?

[PCIntern]

43. hair always looks great...

when I changed locales about 3 miles 29 years ago, I started with a number of other folks in the hair industry. I won't go into details b/c I would wind up offending a whole series of people I'm sure, but suffice it to say that I wound up back at the barber shop where he really does a fantastic job for less than 25 bucks total including generous tip.

Amazing responses here...this place is like family...but BETTER!

[mitchum]

45. Maybe a great barber, but a fucking idiot

[rman]

47. Bush shares his "bed" with 300 million people

But it's ok for him to mess up the place as long as he's being tough about it...

[Supersedeas]

49. one of those 19 percenters

[SoCalDem]

51. America "bought" the wild-west myth..hook, line & sinker

All those old movies changed us. It's sad to think that there are people who actually believe that a resolute person is more valuable than a person with an open mind..

resolute could be ascribed to lemmings too, and we know where that gets them :(