Buy Blue Project - What businesses should we buy from?

[mandyky]

What's better Lowe's or Home Depot?
Dell computers are not good. What computers are?
What is better Office Max or Best Buy?

I know Domino's and Papa John's are owned by RWer/fundie types?
What restaurants should we frequent?
what businesses sell American made products?

[LiberalPartisan]

1. http://www.buyblue.org/

[begley]

2. I go where the best value is

Most of the time it's Home Depot over Lowe's. Wal-Mart over Kroger's for groceries. Way cheaper. I don't think you need someone to tell you where to shop.

[Peggy Day]

4. I think the point is not the best value, but the best value for Dems

Some of these companies only donate to Repubs.

[NYC]

7. Also known as voting with your wallet.

I try.

[begley]

8. Oh, I see.

[yorkiemommie1]

10. I use Buy Blue as a resource

and i try to support 'blue' companies. i haven't stepped foot in a Macy's since they tried to forcefeed FoxNews and *'s Social Security videos to their customers.

[gizmo1979]

12. Wal-mart isn't a goodthing to flaunt around

here.They are the epitome of everything that is wrong with America.We suggest you pay alittle more and shop elsewhere.

[begley]

I have heard things

but sometimes the price difference is so unbelievable, it's hard to resist. For example, I was paying $1.69 for a 46 oz. can of Campbell's Tomato Juice at Kroger, then I found the same can at Wal-Mart for $1.09. I guess I want to know where the difference I would pay at Kroger is going. The second question is why would I want to pay it.

[gizmo1979]

21. I'll send ya the 60 cents.

[begley]

Your humor is well taken:) but seriously....

the price differential is like that on a number of items. I was shocked. I mean if the difference were a couple of cents it would be easier, but sometimes it is 30-40%. I understand your point, But it's hard to pay the higher amount

[spag68]

34. The price difference may go to better wages for its employees

That alone should be enough, but i'm sure there are other reasons.

[Fierce]

67. Edited

And I apologize if you saw it. I misread.

[nonconformist]

I understand that, especially in hard times when money is tight

I suggest renting or picking up a copy of the DVD documentary WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price.

[spag68]

32. WalMart

is a money grubbing bunch of greedy rethugs, why would anyone ever shop there?

[Zynx]

43. Let's take that principle to its logical conclusion...

If a store had products exclusively made by slave labor, they would likely be the cheapest. Would you still shop there?

[begley]

45. I don't feel capable of determining

whether or not something is made by slave labor. I know it wouldn't be from the U.S. So since I could not determine it, I guess I would buy what is legally sold in stores.

[nonconformist]

58. Actually, that's not true

Items made in the Northern Mariana Islands' huge garment industry, for example, can be "legally" labeled "Made in the U.S.A." - even though they are made in sweatshops exploiting slave labor.

[NYC]

3. Hewlett Packard has a good human rights record.

Source:

HP receives a perfect score in the 2005 Human Rights Campaign Report Card
Submitted by Kgj on October 23, 2005 - 6:09pm. Employment Equality | positive

The Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s fourth annual report card — the Corporate Equality Index — rates Fortune 500 and other major companies on a scale from zero to 100 percent on seven key indicators of fair treatment for GLBT employees. Indicators include policies prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity as well as equal health care benefits.

Hewlett Packard is one of 101 firms with a perfect score.
Source: http://www.hrc.org/cei_press/scores_by_name.pdf

[begley]

6. CITGO has a bad human rights record

I believe they are owned by the Venezuelan strongman. Don't know what the alternative would be though.

[Fridays Child]

11. Does calling Chavez "the Venezuelan strongman" somehow prove your...

...allegation about Citgo's human rights record? Around here, you need more than a GOP talking point to make your case, begley.

[begley]

13. I believe human rights groups have complained

about this person. Am I incorrect?

[devilgrrl]

19. Not without citing evidence you aren't correct!

But don't let that stop you from bleating out more RNC talking points

[begley]

23. I have a link

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=americas&c=venezu

[devilgrrl]

26. Okay, there's a page on Venezuela but there's also a page for the US

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=usa

So what are you saying?

[Fridays Child]

27. Two pages on Venezuela...Sixty-one pages on the U.S.

If that's your "proof," I'd say to buy Citgo gas is to associate with a better class of country than our own. :eyes:

[begley]

31. Sorry, the US is the greatest country in the world

in terms of human rights, historically speaking. We do the right thing most of the time, and when we don't, a whole lot of people in this country are able to freely object. I'll take us over anybody in that regard.

[devilgrrl]

33. That's right. When you can't prove something, change the subject.

:eyes:

[begley]

35. I thought

I provided the link that you asked for to bolster my claim about HR violations in Venezuela. Did I not do that?

[Kerrytravelers]

88. Ooohhh! Look over there! Shiny things!

[Fridays Child]

36. if you're going to cite HRW's data on Venezuela...

...it means that you accept that organization as a credible source of information. So, is HRW credible or not? You can't have it both ways.

[devilgrrl]

37. Who cares what they say? America is great, WAL-MART is king...

...that's all that matters! :sarcasm:

[begley]

38. Of course it's credible.

I never said otherwise.

[Fridays Child]

40. Then your remark that the U.S. is the greatest country in the world, in...

...terms of human rights is simply unsupportable.

[begley]

41. What country has been better

than us historically, and also in terms of allowing free public complaint when we disagree with our country?

[Fridays Child]

46. Are the United States' current HRW stats of no concern to you?

[begley]

48. Nobody's perfect.

And we are free to complain, as we are doing. Again I ask you. What country is better than ours in this regard?

[Fridays Child]

50. Sorry but that's beside the point of this conversation and I'm not one...

...to be distracted by straw arguments such as yours. If the best you can say in defense of the U.S. human rights record is "nobody's perfect," you have failed miserably to make your case.

[begley]

51. So, have you named a better country yet?

In terms of human rights and people's freedom to speak out about abuses they see? I keep waiting for that.

[Fridays Child]

52. Again, I don't engage in straw arguments. Nice try, though.

[begley]

54. Somehow I knew I wasn't going to get an answer on that.

LOL.

Have a good day:)

[Fridays Child]

55. You learn fast.

[Catrina]

87. There's a long list of countries with better HR records than this country

I guess people didn't want to bother with such a question, since the answer is known to most people who care about their country enough to not be willing to wear blinders when criminals take over the government and attempt to destroy the ideals that this country was founded on.

You can look this information up for yourself, if you can handle the truth ~ you appear to 'want' to believe we are the best, rather than accept the truth so that something can be done to get back to where we can make that claim again.

[begley]

93. self-omitted

[begley]

99. You missed the key word in my 4 posts about this

'Historically'. Please read my posts completely before responding to what you THINK I said.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

106. I live in one.

Well, at least in terms of freedom.

Brazil may have lots of problems, but lack of freedom certainly isn't one of them.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. Have you ever heard of the phrase "double standard?" -nt

[Catrina]

85. I'm sure the children and women being tortured in US controlled jails are

pleased to know that while they are suffering over there, we can whine about it over here.

There are many countries whose HR record is far superior to this country's, especially since this administration took control of the country.

But, you don't seem to be particularly concerned about such matters, as is the case with citizens of other countries with horrendous HR records. I guess it's up to the rest of us to stop the US from torturing people, to shut down the gulags they are currently opperating in various parts of the world, and to stop rounding up innocent people to fill their gulags with.

The US currently gives millions of dollars in support of the dictators of such countries as Uzbekistan (where they boil citizens in oil, eg) and Azergaijan ~

Did you buy the 'we're getting rid of Saddam Hussein because he's a cruel dictator' nonsense? While they sent millions to support dictators whose records were even worse that SH's? Not that this is a big issue for you, I just wondered if you used it to justify the illegal war!

[begley]

101. Forget it.

How many times do I do have to say it? 'HISORICALLY. THIS ADMINISTRATION NOT WITHSTANDING"

[mandyky]

47. Ask Joe Wilson and his wife

about how "free" public complaints are. Or ask those students, whose personal info was put up on Michele Malkin's website. Or ask Mary McCarthy who lost her job for blowing the whistle on "rendering locations" abroad.

Yes, we live in what I consider the greatest country in the world, but we are not perfect. And as Jesus said, "take the log out of your eye, before you take the speck out of your brother's eye". Our country is moving backwards on human rights.

[begley]

49. You and I are in agreement.

Though things are not perfect here, and have been better in other administrations, we are still the greatest country.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

86. Greatest country?

By what standards?

By our treatment of our elderly and children?
By the number of homeless people on our streets?
By the millions who have no access to affordable healthcare?
By our illegal invasion of a sovereign country and the murder of it's inhabitants?
By our willingness to incarcerate prisoners without charges or trial?
By the number of violent deaths per years?
By our committment to a clean environment?

By those standards, I'd say there are a few northern European countries that have us beat by a mile.

Carrying a big stick and using it to wack the world does not a "great" country make.

[begley]

97. I dunno. European countries are in perpetual recession.

I probably consider it more humane to see to it that most of the people have jobs, or that they don't have to wait eight hours in an emergency room to see a doctor.
Also, those countries are far less populous and far less heterogeneous. As for those things you mention that relate to the war, please note I say the U.S. is historically better, the current administration not withstanding. So yep. I'll take America. You are free to do what you want.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

100. Historically better...

...not counting

Korea
Vietnam
Panama
Iran Contra
The dozens of coups/assassinations of foreign leaders we have participated in all around the world ---

historically, I wouldn't exactly say we've done the right thing militarily either.

[begley]

102. and then I said....

...if things aren't what we want them to be we are free to object. Read the whole post. Thanks.

[AndyTiedye]

60. Used To Be, Before ** Came Along And Brought us Gitmo and Abu Ghraib

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. AH, so now suddenly HRW is not that great? -nt

[begley]

98. Who said that?

Or implied it?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

104. It is the logical implication. Otherwise, tell me:

why does HRW has loads more stuff about the USA than about Venezuela?

[begley]

105. Go back to the original point

I said CITGO was associated with Venezuela which had human rights violations, but I wasn't sure what the alternative gasoline should be. Then people said my claim was false and 'a RW talking point'. Then I provided the link to the site to back up my assertion. Then they changed the debate to US. vs Venezuela. So here we are.

Should the debate be between those who control CITGO, which is Venezuela and those who control American oil companies, which is the companies themselves?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

108. Tell me you don't seriously think CITGO is more questionable than

Exxon and Shell.

That post seems to imply that being a state company, in and of itself, is a blight. Is that so?

[flyingfysh]

24. Yes, human rights groups have complained

about Bush

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catrina]

76. Nowhere near as bad as BP ~ just to begin with ~

[SmokingJacket]

5. Go local whenever possible.

I'd actually rather buy from a local republican than a megacorp that donates to dems, if that's a choice I can make. I just prefer independent businesses, and I don't usually go around quizzing the owners to see how they voted... (I would avoid any business owned by the lunatic head of the local repub party, though).

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. If you have local

We have practically none; some gift shops and some clothing boutiques without my size and outside of my wallet. Most of the little local shops around here are owned by the country club set. Most likely Republicans, although I haven't taken a poll.

I tend to enjoy shopping online a lot and we buy frozen food that comes to the house, which really keeps us out of the stores. The farmer's market is a nice trip on Saturday if I remember. But all our groceries are huge chains.

The local co-op is run by the snottiest people you can imagine who turn their noses up if you come in wearing leather birkies. I just can't deal with that anymore.

[SmokingJacket]

28. That's incredibly depressing.

I can get most of what I need locally or from ebay, but I think I live in a very unusual place....

[lastliberalintexas]

78. Thank you!

Shit some DUers have no idea what it's like to live outside of San Francisco or Manhattan. I'd love to have the options that people keep talking about. However I am like you (and the majority of the country I would imagine) and have precious few options not wholly owned by Corporate America. Sheesh.

[flyingfysh]

9. Costco has a good reputation

They are also known for good treatment of their workers. I stopped by there yesterday, and they had Ted Kennedy's new book for sale.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. Wish we had one in Tallahassee

It's Sam's or nothing, when it comes to wholesale clubs.

[mandyky]

20. Wouldn't you know it?

Not one of those in the whole danged state of Kentucky! shoot!

[demosincebirth]

22. Many are unionized and the ones that are not...

have good pay and benefits.

[LeftyMom]

29. Costco lied about pulling seal oil from thier shelves and contunues

to stock it. Dishonesty and exploitation of threatened species are not consistent with liberal values.

I hope they get thier heads out of thier asses soon, they do have good deals on bread and soy milk, amongst other things.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

30. See...even Costco

is there really such a thing as an honest merchandiser? It's all relative I guess. Then you get these catalogs that make a big deal about being "green" and you have to wonder how much of it is a merchandising ploy? I remember I used to specifically go to WalMart because they only sold American good. Yeah, right.

[FrannyD]

42. I'm getting skeptical too

I just find myself doing without, who needs all that shit anyways. Half my budget is spent on food, we eat like King Bush, all organic and local, The eggs I buy are $6.00 a dozen, I buy other crap at thrift stores, garage sales and Craig's list. I'm lucky to live in the S.F. Bay Area

[SidDithers]

39. What's wrong with seal oil?...

Are seals really threatened species?

Sid

[TallahasseeGrannie]

44. I thought it was oil

used to seal things.

Stupid.

[LeftyMom]

53. Yes, they're threatened by gloabl warning and lack of sea ice

also they way in which they are killed is absolutely brutal.

Check my journal, I have a fair number of links in there about it.

[AndyTiedye]

59. Costco is BLUE

http://www.buyblue.org/node/721/view/summary

[BlooInBloo]

16. I'm not for sale today, but thanks for asking!

heeheehee

Ok, I'll go do something grown-up now... :hi:

[demosincebirth]

18. I try and shop at stores that have a good reputation for treating

their employees fairly. Never do shop at Walmart. I would rather pay more, and buy groceries at Safeway, Alberstson or Kroger's or any unionize grocery store.

[Hamlette]

25. buy local, buy used, buy ebay, buy blue

but first off, buy local. Get to know your locally owned businesses and their owners. Keep the money in your community. Most locally owned business in my state are blue.

[kineneb]

56. and check out charity thrift stores

not only are you recycling, but you are donating to a good cause. I have found great deals at my local Hospice thrift store. And even if the item is more expensive than at a yard sale, I know the money is going to help others and a great program.

[alfredo]

57. AAPL (Apple Computer) Blue. Has Al Gore on its Board

of Directors. Their products are very good, and their stock is pretty good too.


Here is a five year chart comparing Apple, Dell The Dow, Nasdaq, and S&P 500



Has outperformed the stock market. Of course past performance is not a good gauge of future performance. Buyer beware when it comes to playing the stock market.

[mandyky]

61. What are Save -a- Lots and Big Lots?

How about Family Dollar?

I am talking about small items at these or bulk foods.

[Maddy McCall]

62. Sonic Drive In

100% Blue.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/1845/view/summary

[Beaverhausen]

66. I wish there were some of those around me

I ate at one on a road trip last summer. Their milkshakes are to die for! :hi:

[Maddy McCall]

69. As are the chili-cheese coneys.

We love our Sonic. It's the only "fast food" we eat.

:hi:

[Beaverhausen]

70. well, I don't do meat but I'm sure they're good

I think I had fries and a milkshake that day. Now there's a healthy lunch! :P

[Maddy McCall]

82. Try their onion rings, too, if you ever have another chance.

They are delicious, too!

:hi:

(Oops! :blush: Didn't know you don't do meat. Sorry. :( )

[Beaverhausen]

90. Come to think of it, we may had gotten veggieburgers there

All I remember is we were in the middle of California in the middle of summer. It was 103 degrees - really - and since it's a drive-in we stood there in the shade by our car eating and sweating. But we were wishing there were some of these in Los Angeles.

My boyfriend had this rockin' Coconut Cream Pie milkshake thing. WOW!!!

[Maddy McCall]

95. They don't serve veggie burgers here....

but Sonics have different menu offerings in different places. When I lived in Texas, you could get tex-mex dishes at Sonic, but you couldn't here.

The coconut cream pie shake, with graham cracker crumb topping, is bar none my favorite Sonic drinkie thing.

Second would be their Cherry Lime-ade. You can get it in diet, too, and it's just as good as the regular cherry lime-ade.

[Maddy McCall]

63. H.E.B. contributes to Dems more than Repubs.

If you're in Texas, you're lucky to shop at HEB. My aunt lives near one in Port Arthur and shops there all the time...prefers it over Walmart.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/1075/view/summary

[lastliberalintexas]

71. I don't know how up to date buyblue's info is on HEB

They might be "blue" if some of the Dems that they contribute to are the ones who may as well be repubs and are in the pockets of the insurance industry. And as you well know we have plenty of those types of "Dems" down here. For example, HEB has been a prime supporter of the tort "reform" movements in this state and has supported proposals which all but close the courts to Jane and John Doe.

They are better than most of the alternatives, but I don't know that I'd take that contribution info at face value.

[Maddy McCall]

73. It's difficult to ascertain which supports what, I guess.

The one thing I can look at is how they contribute their money.

Didn't know about tort reform and HEB--but it's going to be difficult to find any corporation that doesn't support tort reform, sadly.

[Maddy McCall]

64. CVS Corp. Drug Stores.

Contributes more to Dems than Repubs.

This is fun...I'm learning a lot about where I should be shopping.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/753/view/summary

[Maddy McCall]

65. No to Ruby Tuesday.

100% Red and the food there sucks.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/4647/view/summary

[Maddy McCall]

68. Red Lobster and Olive Garden are RED.

91% Red.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/757/view/summary

[Maddy McCall]

72. Stay away from Taco Bell, KFC, Pizza Hut.

All owned by YUM! Brands, and are red, red, red.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/2222/view/summary

[Maddy McCall]

74. Choice Hotels (Comfort Suites, Econolodge, others) VERY BLUE.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/552/view/summary

We stay at Comfort Suites whenever possible. Good to know that our money has been well spent!

[redwitch]

94. YAY! I just joined their choiceprivileges program.

Glad they are blue too!

[Maddy McCall]

75. InterContinental Hotels (Holiday Inn) very RED.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/1204/view/summary

[Beaverhausen]

80. Starbucks is blue, right?

I half watched the story on 60 Minutes last night. The company provides healthcare for workers who work for as little as 20 (?) hours a week. They said he spends more on healthcare than on coffee.

[Maddy McCall]

83. 100% Blue, according to contributions

http://www.buyblue.org/node/1898/view/summary

Rate blue on environment, too.

[Maddy McCall]

81. Here is a ranking of top Dem Contributors.

http://www.buyblue.org/company/ranking/donations

[SoCalDem]

84. We have just chosen to buy LESS of everything...anywhere

Even "red" companies often have many "blue" employees, and unfortunately, the corporations around these days are just SO huge, it's really difficult to "make a difference"..

When I have an easy choice, I often tell someone with some authority why I quit them, but mostly I just buy less of everything:)

[Kerrytravelers]

89. I printed out the Buy Blue lists of stores in my area that I frequent.

Because we're very active in our area, we know which local restaurants and stores are liberal leaning/Democratic. Also, we have three very liberal alternative newspapers in town, so if a store carries these free papers, it's an indicator that they are lefties (the stores/restaurants I know for a fact are rethugs DO NOT have these free papers available.)

I live in a blue town of a blue county of a blue state, so it's really not too hard for us. I realize not everyone is in this situation, so I can imagine it must be very hard to find blue stores. Personally, if a company gives 50/50, I still shop there, but when given a choice, I go to the store that is more blue. I also go places that I know have unions, even if they're from red companies.

You may also want to consider ordering off the internet, if that is a possibility. Just a thought. Best of luck.

[AnnInLa]

91. Progressive Insurance (car)

Blue company, and very competitive prices.

Big-chain bookstores have been the death knell of small, neighborhood book shops, but Barnes and Noble is blue.

If, like me, you live in a small town, then you don't always have much of a choice when shopping, BUT, when I do have a choice, I always buy blue and let the blue company know why I am supporting them.

[BlackVelvet04]

92. Ebay

Hopefully you can save money, recycle and support a blue company.

[Maddy McCall]

96. My brother just ordered a Pioneer Home Theatre system off of ebay.

I'm going to order one soon. His is awesome.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. People Should Just Buy Wherever They Want For Whatever Reasons They Choose

That's how I see it anyway.

I've always felt the buy blue concept was a good one in spirit but not all that transferable to reality for the following reasons:

1. Have you looked through the entire buy blue site? The overwhelming majority of all business we frequent are red.

2. The concept for buying blue is to not support businesses that donate to republican causes. That's noble, but probably way too simplistic of a thought process. I'll explain further. Yes, if swarms of people boycotted the red stores, their bottom lines may end up being adversely affected thereby punishing them for donating to republicans. That sounds good on its face, but is there any reason to believe that enough people will take part to make the slightest bit of difference?

I have reason to believe the answer is no, but in the spirit of optimism let's say we can get that many. Even if we did, that's not my biggest complexity with the idea. The biggest problem I have is the notion that it is clean equation. We impact their bottom line, they are punished and/or must consider changing their donation practices.

But is it really only the CEO's of these companies that are impacted? It is probably quite narrow-minded to think so. We may affect their bottom lines, but most of these red businesses that we'd boycott do not only have one store that exists in which the CEO is there running. Instead, they have a multitude of stores, each potentially with regional managers, managers, supervisors, employees, contractors, etc...

Most of us work in the typical business world, so we know that many times bonuses and raises are tied to quarterly or yearly performance, objectives and profits. So if we affect their bottom line, that decrease in overall performance might possibly decrease the benefits to all the employees or eradicate them altogether, in the form of bonuses, compensation or raises.

Now we know the CEO's of these business donate red, but what about the managers? The supervisors? The employees etc..? Maybe they wholeheartedly donate to blue causes, but wouldn't be able to spare any discretionary income now because they didn't get their bonus that year, or didn't get a raise. Maybe we would also be hurting them just overall in their lives because they didn't get a bonus or raise, regardless of whether they donate or not. And no, this concept isn't absurd. It happens all the time.

Furthermore, many on the buy blue lists as red are actually franchises of some sort. So once again, even if the parent companies donate red, is there any way for us to know the donation pattern of the actual owner/operator? Isn't it possible that we'd be hurting our own by our efforts?

So for these reasons I believe that though logical in spirit, the idea of buying blue is deceiving in the sense that at the end of the day we have no way of knowing who we are truly hurting or helping. Maybe we would hurt the red companies, but maybe we'd be hurting blue people as well. Since to me it's a toss up, I default to the logic of just buy where ya buy for whatever reasons you choose.

[Bridget Burke]

107. If we were 100% pure, we'd make everything ourselves!

Or buy it from organic types who live in yurts. Like most people, I compromise.

I buy locally when I can. We have some good Farmers' Markets in Houston. And some decent shops selling imports, etc. Plus locally owned restaurants--some individual ones & others owned by local chains. Books? Houston does NOT have really good independent bookstores, but Half Price Books is pretty fine.

Reality demands that I patronize some big corporations. I hate WalMart & their practices are especially vile; in Houston, I have many other choices. Target is marginally better; political contributions don't always outweigh happy employees. HEB has been mentioned as a decent grocery chain. They also own the wonderful Central Markets; no sacrifice to shop there, although they are too expensive for stuff easily found elsewhere. Good Old Kroger treats its employees pretty well. From what I've heard, Whole Foods does NOT.

I'll buy my gas at Citgo because it makes the Right People mad!

Finally: I've reached the stage in life where I do not need to "Consume Mass Quantities." I need to spend more time sifting out my STUFF, calling the Purple Heart to pick up old clothes & hauling books to Half Price than shopping for new junk. (Not that I NEVER shop.)