"Judgment at Nuremberg," and BushCo's war crimes.

[Cyrano]

PBS occasionally shows a great oldie. This afternoon I saw the film
"Judgment at Nuremberg" a movie that was made in 1961. It could have been made today. The story takes place a few years after WWII has ended, and four Nazi judges are on trial. (This was the first American film to show vivid Holocaust footage, as far as I know.)

Without going into detail, three have excuses for going along with the Nazis. One knows that his actions aided and abetted the Nazis. Throughout the story, various Germans are portrayed as people claiming, "We didn't know." It's possible to sympathize with many of them who really did know, but couldn't do a damn thing about it.

Try to imagine a world in which the U.S. has been defeated (by whoever) and our leaders are on trial for war crimes. You'd have to be brain dead to not grasp the war crimes of the Bush administration, not to mention the crimes against our Constitution.

The greatest line of this film is the last. The German judge (Burt Lancaster) says to the American judge (Spencer Tracy) who has just sentenced him, "I never imagined that millions would die."

Tracy says, "You made it possible the first time you sentenced a man you knew to be innocent."

It's not practical in a short post, to compare this to the crimes being committed against Americans and non-Americans today by our government. But, most of us already know enough. To one degree or another, that makes us accomplices even though there's not a damn thing we can do about it -- at the moment.

[petgoat]

1. There's a lot we can do.

One thing is to support those who are doing something, people like Brad Friedman of bradblog,
and Joseph Cannon of Cannonfire, and Paul Thompson of cooperativeresearch.

You can inform yourself about the issues and try to inform others. Check out the
Whispering Campaign for downloadable leaflets http://psstpsstpsst.blogspot.com/

Educate yourself about 9/11 and about the voting machines and about the war and the torture
and the Project For a New American Century.

[glitch]

3. And then educate others. It's already working, as is evidenced by the

plummeting polls.
Once we reach the tipping point the indictments start.

[AuntiBush]

16. They Forgot

For ever and ever, people do "gossip," you know, one tells another whom tells another, and before long word just gets around.

And it has.

[Yogi]

14. Thanks for the site.....

Some great reading. I'll pass it on too.

[bleever]

2. I saw this a week ago, and the historical and ethical parallels

are striking. Very much worth seeing for that, and the fact that it's packed with great actors and performances.

[kineneb]

8. and Marlene Detrich singing "Lili Marleen"

Hard to get that out of my memory...actually have the sheet music to the song.

"...wie einst, Lili Marleen."

[Cyrano]

13. Not to mention cameos by Judy Garland and Montgomery Clift.

Especially Clift's performance that could make a stone weep. (For those too young to know who he is, rent or download anything he ever made if you'd like to see a true film genius.)

But more importantly, his testimony during the film's trial will help any feeling human being start to understand what it's like to be a victim of injustice. As always, Clift was magnificent.

[savemefromdumbya]

4. PBS are showing all the Presidents Men

things to come....

[cassiepriam]

5. Yes, no matter what we do and try, it all falls on deaf ears.

Karma time will happen, the question is how and when.

[cali]

6. Terrible as bush's war crimes are

he has a long way to go to catch up to hitler- and thankfully I don't think he can get there. Anyway, it's never gonna happen, and all I really want is bush out of the presidency as soon as can be accomplished.

[petgoat]

10. Bush has only been in power five years, so we should compare

him not the Big Hitler of the death camps but to Little Hitler of 1938.

Bush hasn't been stressed with a years-long war with real foes like Russia and
the UK like Hitler was. Americans haven't been stressed by a runaway inflation
followed by Depression as the Germans were. There's no question that Bush is
taking us in a fascist direction.

[cali]

12. Actually, I think the

bush hitler comparisons are pretty lame, though I think the Germany 1933 US 2006 comparisons are pretty apt. And in 1938 hitler certainly hadn't been stressed by wars with Russia or England.

[doublethink]

7. "Nuremberg Diary" .... 1947

by G.M Gilbert ... read it ... the comparisons to 2006 and beyond only History will tell. Peace. K&R.

[Journeyman]

9. "The Origins of Totalitarianism" by Hannah Arendt (1952). . .

read it and see how incredibly distant our situation is today from that of the Hitlerian Reich.

[doublethink]

15. And your point is?

we're talking war crimes against humanity here and 'fascism' not totalitarianism ... please elaborate on your comment about the 'distant' psychology the two Reich's do not have in common? We're all here to learn. Peace. :)

[Journeyman]

18. As Hitlerian Germany was one of only two totalitarian regimes. . .

the world has known, and both were involved at the Nuremburg Tribunal, I thought the opinion of one the historical phenomenon's greater chroniclers would have bearing on any consideration of comparisons with present day political movements.

I've read Dr. Gilbert's work, along with a sizeable selection of other Tribunal-related material, including Dr. Arendt's analysis of Eichmann's trial in Jerusalem (The Banality of Evil) and the works of Bradley Smith. My suggestion to you is that the topic may prove weightier than Dr. Gilbert's psychological assessment of defeated prisoners, and that the formation of a totalitarian movement -- to say nothing of a totalitarian regime itself -- and the concomitant societal descent into the madness of comparable crimes against humanity may prove more difficult than so many on this board imagine.

You, on the other hand, have chosen to preemptively encourage me to read another book, this a journalist's opinion (M. Mayer, which also I have read), before even granting me the courtesy of a reply to your original query, while I have encouraged you to read one of the 20th century's foremost political theorists, an intellectual of considerable academic renown, and a staunch opponent from within the Reich dating to its earliest days.


(Few of Dr Arendt's works are available on the web, as the executors of her academic legacy are loath to release for free what is still in considerable demand at universities worldwide. You can find selections from the three volumes of The Origins of Totalitarianism here (http://nickcooper.com/origins.htm), though these are admittedly inadequate, and in the main unfortunately miss many of Dr. Arendt's most salient points, particularly in regards the central role of organization in the development of a totalitarian regime, the complexities of the relationship of the police to the state, and the role isolation and loneliness play in the triumph of ideology and terror over the human spirit. Should you read all of Dr Arendt's three-volume work, you'll readily see the dissimilarities between Hitlerian Germany and George W's America.

Oh, and read Evan S. Connell's Points for a Compass Rose. Because it's extraordinary and important and not because we're just throwing book names into the ether. Read it, too, because Connell illustrates the need to understand Simon Dubnow's final admonition if you ever hope to appreciate the horror of the Third Reich, or expect to survive the Bushbaby's America. (Google Dubnow. You'll see.))

[doublethink]

17. And this book too ...... "They Thought They Were Free" ,,,,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=190088 Peace again :hi:

[dflprincess]

11. I watched it last night.

I thought the speech Tracy made when he was pronouncing sentence was terrific. The references to blind patriotism were chilling.