Thoughts on John Kerry

[mb7588a]

I'm a "meh," in Will Pitt's poll.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1003025&mesg_id=1003025

I worked 14 to 20 hour days for 7 months as a field coordinator in a very competetive state, in three highly Republican counties, to get this man elected president of the United States of America. At the time I believed in the cause 110%.

On Election Night 2004, I was on a call with the rest of the GOTV (get out the vote) staff in the state I was in. My name was read as a list of people who were to go to their local county courthouse to observe the vote counting process and be ready for any kind of "trouble." A few days before, I had been told to have a bag with several days' clothes and supplies ready to go. When I got this call to go to the courthouse, I grabbed my bag and headed towards the door.

I stopped, turned around, and handed my keys to a trusted volunteer. I said to him, "I'm going to the courthouse, and who knows where after that. I don't know when I'll be back here."

I sat at the courthouse as huge boxes of certified ballots arrived and the RoveBots glared at me. I was in a state that Kerry won by 11,000 votes. I personally exceeded my vote goals by 5,000 votes (although so did the Bush organizer because of huge turnout). I took off a semester from school to get this man elected, did everything I could. I helped win an extremely close state.

At this point.... would I suspend my life and do it all again for John Kerry? No. He has done nothing since the polls closed and I sat alone at a courthouse that indicates to me he was worthy of nearly half of the popular votes cast in this vast land. He was worth it at the time, but now I truly believe we have much better candidates.

Senator Kerry, it's time to step aside. That is, unless you can get a multitude of Democrats elected this fall, introduce some legislation to get me health care, help my friends get better student loans, and save our environment from the Bush administration, along with all the other world's problems (like Iraq).

He would have been, and COULD still be a great president - but what has he done for us lately?

[saltpoint]

1. Yuck.

Sen. Kerry's constituents make that decision, not you.

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. I heartily second your "yuck"

Frankly, I question the purpose of this thread.

This is not the way to support Feingold. Russ deserves better than this - he would NOT approve of these tactics.

[mb7588a]

23. I'm still entitled to support whom I choose aren't I?

There's a lot of Kerry going around lately, and I have a special amount of respect for him, but he has NOT earned my support since Election Day 2004.

[saltpoint]

27. He has earned our respect. You can vote for anybody you wish to.

But your post subtracted from Kerry to give to Feingold.

That was its stated intent, and people who respect both, may well ask you why your post could not have stood on its own as a praise-for-Feingold thread.

You fired the bank shot on Kerry, not us.

[mb7588a]

36. Feingold is my signature. It's on all of my posts.

I didn't mean to associate the two, AT ALL. I very much apologize for the misconception.

I only meant to associate myself, my experiences, and my thoughts with John Kerry.

[saltpoint]

62. There was no misconception. Your post expressly intended to subtract

from one to boost the other.

No question about it.

[mb7588a]

69. Well, you won't take me at my word,

and you've now called me a liar, a bullshitter, manipulative, dismissive, perspectiveless, groundless, snarky, Bush-league, and obnoxious...

:wtf:

You've misunderstood my tone, my message, and my intent. When I explain it to you you call me more names....

I'm done with you. Post 34 was right on.

[saltpoint]

72. You got called slamming someone to bolster your personal bias.

In a forum, that risks offense to others who see other angles.

You've failed to acknowledge virtues in someone who has earned our respect.

Shame on you.

[saltpoint]

66. I agree with the DUers who here and elsewhere have praised Feingold

for his own merits.

He deserves the praise. He's intelligent, dedicated, real, and sincere. Hard to argue with those traits.

Kerry is not less for his losing the election in 2004, if indeed he lost, nor for challenging what he could and not challenging what he could not in the aftermath.

I would distrust anyone who sought to imply otherwise, as if Kerry owed you personally for your work and sacrifice. If you have evidence of actionable offense against voter integrity in Ohio, produce it at once. Short of that, your treatment in your post of John Kerry is incorrect, and stingy-spirited.

[WildEyedLiberal]

32. If there's "a lot of Kerry going around lately"...

... then it kind of proves your "what has Kerry done for me lately" snark false, doesn't it? If he were doing nothing, he wouldn't be mentioned so often on blogs, would he?

You are perfectly entitled to support who you wish for 2008. However, it is 2006, and neither Kerry nor Feingold have announced for the presidency yet, and both are concerned RIGHT NOW with a) opposing Bush's policies and b) electing Democrats in 2006. It's just tacky to dismiss everything Kerry is doing because you happen to prefer someone else in 2008. I also suggest that, if you support Feingold, you should do so positively - highlight what Feingold is doing, promote his PAC, promote his endorsed 2006 candidates, promote his speeches and press releases. That is what most Kerry supporters do, and that is why you see "a lot of Kerry." I will never start an anti-Feingold thread because I do not believe that tearing down other Democrats helps promote Kerry at all. This is not a good way to promote Feingold.

[ray of light]

well, this poster doesn't inspire me to run out and support

Feingold when I see him bashing another progressive for no logical reason!

[saltpoint]

63. Very good point. Me neither. I try to be open and affirming

but this anti-Kerry crap is making me more partisan by the moment.

Feingold loses ground if this is the nature of his support.

[ray of light]

77. well, it is the Rovian technique...

to divide and add one to his side...divide and add one to his side...etc...

But the thing is this division stuff over 08 now only hurts democrats in 06!!!

[saltpoint]

81. There's much good in working as a team toward an 06 blue sweep

of the U.S. House. If we're lucky, the Senate also.

Slamming Kerry does NOT assist in that spirit of teamwork. It subtracts from Feingold in this case, that he requires a subtraction from someone else to stand taller.

I argue in the affirmative for Democratic candidates rather than playing them off each other.

Lieberman is the sole exception, and earlier, Zell Miller.

I don't badmouth potential 08 candidates. I would call on everyone else to understand why that is an important component of victory, not just in 06 but 08 and 12, also.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. "What has he done for us lately?"

Is that a joke? Is this a parody thread?

You ask TODAY what he has done for us?

Do you even read the news? Scan the Greatest page at DU?

You don't help your own candidate when you tear down others. Just FYI.

I wish I could troll rate DU threads, and put them on a "Suckiest Page."

[IsIt1984Yet]

3. Well stated.

:thumbsup:

Go Russ!

http://www.russforpresident.com/
http://www.draftruss.com/

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. Again..

.... you aren't helping Russ when you tear down someone else. I don't promote Kerry by attacking Feingold. If Feingold deserves to be president, surely his supporters could support him on his own merits instead of constantly tearing down other Democrats.

[IsIt1984Yet]

6. Please point to where exactly I was "tearing" anyone down?

[WildEyedLiberal]

8. The entire OP is an attack against Kerry

You replied "Well stated, Go Russ!"

Clearly you agree that attacking Kerry is a good way to promote Feingold, or else you would not have replied thus.

It's just not necessary. If Feingold is worthy of being our nominee, then trumpet his accomplishments. Or better yet, support all Democrats who are fighting now and working to elect more Dems in 2006, and let's leave 2008 battles for - gasp - 2008.

[saltpoint]

14. Agreed. And nothing but.

[IsIt1984Yet]

OK, then point to OP's "attack". You are taking WAY too personally.

OP stated that there are better candidates. There are - Russ included. He's not the ONLY "better candidate", but he's the one *I* support. I am still entitled to my opinion, aren't I?

[saltpoint]

18. The OP's tone was manipulative and dismissive.

The intent of the thread is to establsh a frame of reference to dismiss someone whose sacrifice very frankly eclipses the combined total of anyone in this thread, likely most of us put together.

It's disrespectful.

[IsIt1984Yet]

22. Hey - FIRST, I am not the OP. K?

Second, :wtf:?

"establsh a frame of reference to dismiss someone whose sacrifice very frankly eclipses the combined total of anyone in this thread, likely most of us put together"

[saltpoint]

28. The points were stated and you didn't answer. The OP did a bank shot

on Kerry to throw praise to Feingold. And has been called on it.

That's the issue at hand.

[IsIt1984Yet]

34. Read post 33. Especially the "get over yourself" part.

[saltpoint]

52. Your mistake was the point. The original post's intent was to subtract

from the dignity of one man to give it to another.

I call that bush league.

[mb7588a]

60. It was not my intent and I've apologized. See post 36. nt.

[IsIt1984Yet]

65. You should change your handle to "The Amazing Kreskin" being able to read

into people's intentions and shit.

Impressive.

[saltpoint]

68. I stand by the call. It was a slam, pure and simple.

[mb7588a]

37. See post 36. It was my mistake. nt.

[IsIt1984Yet]

39. No. Not your fault. People are getting way too worked up. There was

no shots taken at Kerry at all in your OP, all you did was state your opinion. It was blown out of proportion.

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. It's the "what has he done for us lately part" if you must know

Coming on the heels of an amazing speech by Kerry, it is a rather snarky and unkind thing to say. Sort of like saying, the day after Feingold announces his censure resolution, "well, what has Feingold done lately?"

That is the comment in the OP that bothered me, and Old Crusoe, and while I understand better now where the OP is coming from, it is the presence and timing of that comment that makes the entire OP appear as a cheap shot against Kerry.

[IsIt1984Yet]

44. Hey, we're all on the same team!

Even if we have our own favorite players. ;)

[WildEyedLiberal]

45. Egg zactly!

I have a great fondness for most of our Democrats, and we'll all band together after the nominee has been chosen in 2008 and get a DEM in the Oval Office again. :toast:

[mb7588a]

48. Hell yeah cheers to that.

:toast:

[mb7588a]

43. Thank you for understanding, IsIt1984Yet. nt.

[IsIt1984Yet]

46. .

I've been fighting this battle all weekend ;)

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. "Kerry should step down"? "I wouldn't work for him again?"

As Old Crusoe said, pure snark and nothing but. Kerry should step down from what? The Senate? Running for president? Pardon me, but anyone can run for the presidency. I don't think John Kerry needs some blogger's permission.

If Kerry got the nomination again, the OP implies he wouldn't work for him. That attitude disgusts me, regardless of whether its directed at Kerry or Hillary or any Democrat. The idea that ONLY your chosen candidate is worth working for is arrogant. Yes, Kerry is my choice, but I'll be out there for whoever the Democratic nominee is. Anything else is sheer pettiness.

You are certainly entitled to support Feingold. But my point is: can't you, and the OP, do so WITHOUT starting threads to tear down other candidates? I don't start anti-Feingold or anti-whoever threads to promote Kerry. It's negative and it's unnecessary and I don't think it helps promote my guy. I don't think attacking other Democrats does Feingold any favors, and I am inclined to believe he'd agree.

[mb7588a]

35. You take it personally

that I would not work for him again (You assume if he got the nom., and I did not say that. I actually meant in the primaries and should have said so...), and do not support him now.

I didn't say "step down," I said "step aside." Meaning he should not entice us with presidential campaign ruminations because he hasn't done much to swing 60,000 votes.

It wasn't my intent to tear down Senator Kerry. I greatly respect the man, but also I meant that I expect more from the most popular Democrat (at least he was after the election). I'll say again, he COULD be a great president.

[WildEyedLiberal]

40. Well I am glad you would work for him in the general election at least

This is a democracy and a democracy has a healthy range of voices. Primaries are the chance for a party to choose from among a number of party candidates, and everyone has different preferences. You do not have to support him for the primaries, but many do and will, so it seems irrelevent to say that he "shouldn't run." Anyone who wishes to run will, and Kerry will be far from the least viable candidate in 2008.

I am glad you respect him, but with 2006 elections coming up, I think we need to NOT start quibbling over who is and isn't our choice for 2008 and instead join Kerry AND Feingold AND other Democrats who are fighting Bush NOW and fighting to get Democrats elected NOW.

The saddest part about all of this is that the great things these men are doing are getting overshadowed by the need of some to make it about 2008. Feingold's censure effort is brave and needed and we should all applaud it; ditto Kerry's filibuster attempt. Kerry's speech on patriotism and dissent was a barnburner and we should all listen and take heart, and hear what he is saying, which is - we need to get out of Iraq. That's something we should all be able to agree on. I don't want to lose sight of supporting all the things various Democrats are doing just to fight the primaries two years early.

[mb7588a]

51. I was set off by

some full-throated support I saw of Senator Kerry in other threads. I did mention several things Kerry could do to gain my support.

1.) First and foremost, help a boatload of Dems win in '06
2.) Health care for everyone
3.) Increase student loans
4.) Save the environment and change public opinion about climate change/global warming (Yes I know he has worked on this.)

I'll add a few to the OP:
1.) ELECTION REFORM
2.) Speak up more often like he did today... Why did the campaign style stop after Election Day?

You are correct about his Alito filibuster, and his speech today. He's laudable for more - his work on ANWR, his support for LIHEAP, his work on Veterans' Health Care reform etc.

I think the reason for speculating and opining about 2008 is that it's therapeutic to do so. We have the worst leader in the history of histories (hey, that's actually not that much of an understatement), and it just feels good to think forward to better times. It's NOT too early to dream. These dreams keep me alive and interested in politics. Apathy would be my way if it wasn't for term limits. WE CAN AND SHOULD look forward to 2008 and be talking about it, but you're correct, we mustn't forget 2006.

[Mass]

84. A few things about this list

Among the thing you list, 2,3,and 4 are things Kerry is working on and for some, has been working on all his life (see 4). However they will not be done without a Democratic majority in the senate.

He is working on 1 and has been for months now, fundraising and campaigning for candidates at all levels.

ELECTION REFORM: He is one of the initial co-sponsors of the Boxer bill on election reform and he has been making many speeches like this one (though this one is one of the most impressive ones) since the middle of last year (See the Katrina Administration speech, the Georgetown speech last October, and the National Security Speech in the end of last year). You can find all of these on www.johnkerry.com if you are interested.

And you are right. We MUST not forget 2006, which is what Kerry is working on now.

[saltpoint]

7. Talent with language, but wrong message entirely.

Wrong take, wrong interpretation, wrong slant, bemartyred bullshit, character slam, and an absence of perspective.

Yuck.

[IsIt1984Yet]

10. I think you read way too much into it. Really.

OP simply said, there are better candidates. Calling that "bemartyred bullshit, character slam" is taking it WAAAAY too personally.

[saltpoint]

13. Whoops. You cited your work on election night, your sacrifice. The

element of KERRY BETRAYED MY PURE HEART runs through your post like bile.

Wrong approach, poor synopsis, warped perspective.

[mb7588a]

21. Well, I talked about my personal experience as a

way to say that "I was there for you, Senator Kerry, and you have not very much been there for me since then."

[saltpoint]

24. And I challenged your assertion. I challenge it again.

You are mistaken about the career, past, present to 2004, and since, of Senator Kerry.

I don't believe you follow him that closely.

Not questioning your vote for Feingold, who is a great Senator IMO. But I'm not interested in a dismissal of Kerry on groundless bases.

[IsIt1984Yet]

33. My basis for "dismissing" him is related to disappointment in the way

he handled the 2004 election, the Ohio results, the vote on the war, the vote on the USA PATRIOT Act. No, I do NOT agree with "MY" candidate 100%, but I agree with him more. I am entitled to my opinion; baseless as it may seem to someone as righteous as you.

Seriouly, relax, you're taking everything way too personally, can we have political discourse without such hard feelings and questioning my "polictal" value, claiming I don't "follow him that closely".

Hey, and reality check, I was not posting in an effort to gain YOUR interest in MY dismissal of Kerry as a candidate. I agreed with the OP that there are better candidates.

Get over yourself.

[saltpoint]

64. Kerry's our point here. His work in the Senate is exemplary.

The OP completely failed to make that acknowledgement and subtracted from his considerable achievements there.

I called the OP on that count. I stand by the charge.

[Mass]

50. So he can vote for them, not telling Kerry not to run.

Or is he so bothered that Kerry is sharing part of his guy's constituency?

I hope both Kerry and Feingold would run. We need people who are not afraid to criticize and offer solutions, and right now, we need these guys to campaign for 06.

[blm]

100. Show me whoi has done MORE than Kerry before and SINCE the "polls closed"

And why are so many willfully IGNORANT to all that Kerry has done and has been doing all along?

[Yogi]

5. I'm with you...

Kerry or Feingold? Feingold any day.

[saltpoint]

9. "What has he done for us lately?"

Pure snark.

[blue cat]

12. I love Feingold

but there is no way he will get the nomination being an unmarried candidate. Look how the media attacked Dean for having a wife that refused to be a prop.

[janx]

15. Kerry has contributed a lot to this country.

But it's too soon for him to run again. I just don't see it happening.

[saltpoint]

16. History argues with you. many who did not get elected the first time

have come back.

Why count anyone out at this early date?

[janx]

20. Have they come back in the very next election?

I'm not counting anyone out, but it seems unlikely that Kerry would win the nomination again this soon after the last election--especially given the huge disappointment it was for most of us.

[saltpoint]

31. If you could cite the rule that says a candidate must return to win the

nomination the next election cycle, I'll entertain all aspects of your point, but I don't believe there's any such thing.

Again, cite it and we'll go from there.

To my best knowledge, there's no such "rule" and no "assumption" in the common perception that it could or might or should or shouldn't or wont happen.

It's not the point.

[janx]

38. Rule? Where did I mention any rule?

I'm really not interested in getting into an argument; I'm just pointing out that the last election was in 2004, after all--not so very long ago. It's not likely that Dems would nominate the same guy again, that's all.

I think we'll have some great candidates next year. Until then, November looms.

[saltpoint]

54. We agree on November. I'd like it to be as blue as possible.

[katinmn]

17. I'd like to see both of them leading the march in New York!

We need leaders who are willing to fight with us, not just talk.

Feingold has been a one-man band over censuring the president, taking hits from both parties, and I give him lots of credit for that.

Time is running out. Let's see some heavy lifting along with the inspirational talks.

[saltpoint]

19. My guess is they both will be leading lights for many years.

And we are lucky to ahve them around leading us.

[IsIt1984Yet]

26. On that we agree 100%

:toast:

[saltpoint]

29. - - -

:thumbsup:

[MH1]

110. Do you mean the march that is scheduled for the SAME DAY as

the DNC neighbor-to-neighbor canvassing event?

I saw you mention on another thread that you thought Kerry should be supporting the march. However as a member of the Democratic Party, if anything I would think he would support this major party-building event that has been scheduled for some time. Of course he is actually probably doing his job as a Senator rather than any direct involvement even in the DNC thing (although I do not know).

I am wondering - how is it that this march was scheduled for Apr 29th, when the big DNC event is, anyway? Personally, I might like to do both, but I can't physically be in two places at once. As a committee member I will do the DNC thing.

[babylonsister]

30. Maybe if you did a bit of research, you'd know what he's done

lately, but you can start here:

http://www.returningsoldiers.us/whatskerrydoing.htm

[mb7588a]

41. Thank you for answering my question,

I will search through this astutely.

[Mass]

47. Thank you for selecting my senator for me!

Allow me to disagree. I am fine with Kerry and expect him to stay in politics for a long time.

[mb7588a]

53. I meant step aside from '08 speculation.

He can certainly continue to be your senator! I have no complaint at allllll about that.

[Mass]

56. I still disagree and hope he will run - After all, this is what the

primaries are for. So that voters choose. And I hope Feingold will too. We need people who are not afraid to say what they think.

[blm]

101. You should - you claimed he hasn't done a thing since the polls closed.

I would say that anyone who made a remark is purposefully ignoring the mountain of work Kerry is doing just as he has done for the last 35 years of public service.

In fact, you can't NAME a lawmaker who has effected this nation's governance more positively over the last 35 years than John Kerry has - the proof is in the congressional and historic record.

[TayTay]

107. He is running.

That much is pretty obvious. Of course, that statement can also go away if circumstances beyond anyone's control interfere, as they sometimes do.

Too bad if you don't like it. You can find someone else to support. If Kerry, or anyone else has the time, the inclination and the money to run, then he can run. That's democracy for ya. Deal with it.

[ray of light]

49. you don't represent feingold's position well by badmouthing

his own teammate. I doubt Feingold would appreciate this since Kerry is one of the Senators standing with him on Censure and Iraq.

So I think it's time for you to put your ill will aside and let Feingold lead his own campaign which I guarantee you wouldn't be filled with the slimey whining and smear that your post is.



P.S. THis part of your sentence is so absolutely untrue that it only shows you're a hack that Feingold wouldn't even appreciate.

"No. He has done nothing since the polls closed and I sat alone at a courthouse that indicates to me he was worthy of nearly half of the popular votes cast in this vast land. He was worth it at the time, but now I truly believe we have much better candidates."

Gee... I guess the three lawsuits in Ohio that KErry/Edwards has going means nothing to you.

I guess the money Kerry donates to get democrats elected in 06 means nothing to you.

I guess the lead of the Alito filibuster means nothing to you.

I guess the direct interragation and no votes on other wing-nut nominees and the no votes on bankruptcy bill, anwar exploration, pork filled budget bills, and those are just a few things that mean nothing to you.

I guess the firm defense of Murtha, Feingold, and other fine patriots means nothing to you.

I guess the support of Feingold's notion of censure, the straight talk about NSA and FISA means nothing to you too.

[mb7588a]

57. See post 36. It was my mistake

Again, I only meant to associate myself, my experiences, and my thoughts with John Kerry.

All of those things you mention do mean a lot to me, and that is why Sen. Kerry continues to get my respect. There is no mention of Feingold in my OP. I did not intend to represent Sen. Feingold or his views on Kerry. How could I possibly do so?

[ray of light]

74. You have his picture and the sentence

right in the post too.

I realize now it's your signature line, but as such you are still representing Feingold.

Personally, I think Kerry rocks! But I love Feingold too. I would never tell either one of them to step aside because either one would be a tremendous asset to our country and we need every single one of them to stand tough together and lead!

Our country is at stake. And we need all of our party to fight hard here and now. We don't need to worry about 08 until 08. And even then, whatever happens in 08 we have to fight for election reform in 06 o7 and really make sure they don't steal it again.

[saltpoint]

75. I appreciate this by strength of other DUers who post in the strong

affirmative about all Democratic potential candidates.

It is such a disgraceful and negative experience to see that some people cannot extend the same broad affirmation of all our potential candidates.

They have to have theirs only and they get upset if someone else calls them on it.

Kerry. Edwards. Bayh. Clinton. Lincoln. Richardson. Biden. Warner. Feingold. Boxer. Vilsack.

I will support any of our candidates over anyone the GOP throws at us.

That ought to be a good starting point among blue voters.

[ray of light]

104. Right on!!!!

[pansypoo53219]

55. considering the piss poor election georgie ran

the lies he told, he should have lost in a landslide. plus whenm clearly the night of the election there was shit afloat and kerry conceeded after OHIO, i want kerry to shut the fuck up, or bring theft charges.

[Mass]

58. I disagree - I hope he speaks out - I hope they ALL speak out!

[saltpoint]

59. This post's intent was to slam a U.S. Senator and the standard-bearer

for the party in 2004.

I consider it bush league and obnoxious.

[ProSense]

61. He has done nothing since the polls closed? Here is

a recent piece of legislation Kerry co-sponsored.

DECEPTIVE PRACTICES AND VOTER INTIMIDATION PREVENTION -- (Senate - November 10, 2005)
GPO's PDF

--- Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I proudly join as a cosponsor of Senator Obama's Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2005. This important legislation will protect voters from the deceptive practices that aimed to keep them from the polls on election day.

Free and fair elections are the foundation of our democracy--a democracy built on the unassailable principle that every single American should have an equal say in their government. No American should ever approach their polling place in fear. No American should ever worry that they will somehow be penalized for exercising their fundamental right to vote . No American should ever be tricked into thinking they do not have the right to vote .

The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevent Act takes great strides towards ensuring that no American will ever be denied the right to vote . It both criminalizes deceptive practices and provides affected individuals with a private right of action. It prevents the negative effects of deceptive practices by ensuring voters get accurate election information. It also requires the Attorney General to report allegations of deceptive practices, the actions taken to correct them, and any prosecutions resulting from those allegations.

We have worked hard to bring fair and free elections to people around the word-including the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. We must do everything in our power to ensure that our own elections are at least as fair and as free.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2005_record&page=S12679&position=all

S.1975
Title: A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack (introduced 11/8/2005) Cosponsors (4)
Related Bills: H.R.4463
Latest Major Action: 11/8/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COSPONSORS(4), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)
Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham - 12/12/2005
Sen Feingold, Russell D. - 12/12/2005
Sen Kerry, John F. - 11/10/2005
Sen Leahy, Patrick J. - 12/12/2005

And the legal action Kerry took:

Today, Kerry-Edwards filed a document in support of that statement. Most significant, Kerry-Edwards also filed today a separate document in support of our motion for hearing with two critical attachments: 1) a declaration from Kerry-Edwards attorney Don McTigue regarding a survey he conducted of Kerry-Edwards county recount coordinators; 2) a summary chart of the results of that survey (which highlight the inconsistent standards applied during the recount).

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/2/24/183243/756

http://www.truthout.org/pdf/cobbbadnariktransfertatement22305.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmctiguedecl22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmotionforhearing22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardssummarychart22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardstransferstatement22405.pdf


They were thrown out by the courts, by partisan players, but if there was solid evidence not even partisanship would have been able to refute the case. As Conyers report stated:

Whether the cumulative effect of these legal violations would have altered the actual outcome is not known at this time. However, we do know that there are many serious and intentional violations which violate Ohio’s own law, that the Secretary of State has done everything in his power to avoid accounting for such violations, and it is incumbent on Congress to protect the integrity of its own laws by recognizing the seriousness of these legal violations.

B. Need for Further Congressional Hearings

It is also clear the U.S. Congress needs to conduct additional and more vigorous hearings into the irregularities in the Ohio presidential election and around the country.

While we have conducted our own Democratic hearings and investigation, we have been handicapped by the fact that key participants in the election, such as Secretary of State Blackwell, have refused to cooperate in our hearings or respond to Mr. Conyers questions. While GAO officials are prepared to move forward with a wide ranging analysis of systemic problems in the 2004 elections, they are not planning to conduct the kind of specific investigation needed to get to the bottom of the range of problems evident in Ohio. As a result, it appears that the only means of obtaining his cooperation in any congressional investigation is under the threat of subpoena, which only the Majority may require.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/issues/issues/election.html

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. As one who put her heart into the last election, I feel your pain...

As one who sits and waits for the required 5 days to go by before Sen. Kerry voices a stance on issues...I hear you. We truly need fresh blood this time around. Well written. Thanks. Wildeyed, go ahead and vent your anger at me.

[saltpoint]

70. You ought to know better, Mrs.Grumpy. All blood is old blood. You ought

to know that, too.

Kerry's work in the Senate and his near-triumph as our candidate were both exemplary.

Don't be stingy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

76. I still can't get over it. I'm honest in that.

I still think we can hop on things faster. I can't change that. Sorry.

[saltpoint]

78. The point isn't who you wanted to win or how it made you feel to see

a monkey-brained asshole like Bush in the White House after cheating in Ohio.

No one's questioning that.

But what legal remedy would you have proposed to the Kerry-Edwards campaign that would have resulted in a different outcome?

They can't go to court without evidence. They're lawyers. If you have a specific, you should MENTION it to them. We'd all be delighted to have Bush gone.

[ScreamingMeemie]

80. Edwards was pushing for recounts.

It has nothing to do with that really...but getting the feeling of being steamrolled for all of our efforts. It's sitting and waiting and "picking battles" that never happen that gets my gut. It was, and always will be a colossal waste of my time...time I should have spent with my children it appears in hindsight.

[saltpoint]

83. Well, just make sure those younguns register as Democrats when the

time comes.

And keep a scrapbook of the coming year or two. I think they will want to look back on it and read about the impeachment proceedings against George W. Bush.

More power to ya.

[ray of light]

103. How do you know that it was ONLY Edwards pushing for

recounts? Where you there?

Because I know for a fact that it wasn't only Edwards pushing to count every last vote. I also know for a fact that certain "people" decided to let Edwards be the white knight and they chose to let Kerry be the "bad" one. Why is that do you think?

Besides, Kerry and Edwards BOTH have three lawsuits still pending in Ohio. Are you aware of that? If you weren't, how does that make you feel? And why would Kerry still be involved in election reform efforts and those lawsuits if he wasn't pissed about the election corruption?

I think you've been had--and it wasn't "had" by Kerry. (or Edwards...) Who do you think stands to gain by pretending Kerry played dead?

[WildEyedLiberal]

86. I utterly fail to see why you are calling me out here

I disputed your rather disingenuous suggestion in another thread that the only people out canvassing and doing grunt work in 2004 were Dean, Clark, and Kucinich supporters, who were so valiantly carrying the cross of supporting a candidate they did not want. It seemed rather self-martyring, and I don't care for that attitude. If you are going to volunteer, and then lord it over people's heads and express handwringing regret that your volunteering was in vain, then just don't volunteer. If you really think you wasted your time in 2004, please, you should have stayed home. That kind of attitude just annoys the piss out of me. No one put a gun to your head and made you go out there - and if you are just going to bring it up to portray yourself as a martyr bearing a heavy burden, then you are likely doing it for the wrong reasons.

[kerrygoddess]

71. You really need to ask this? "but what has he done for us lately?"

You had to ask this? I guess you have not been paying attention...

First, let's start with Iraq - did you read his speech yesterday, his recent NY Times OP/ED about Iraq, or do you even have a clue about his Iraq Resolution?

John Kerry’s Speech at Boston’s Faneuil Hall: “A Right and Responsibility to Speak Out”
April 22nd, 2006 @ 7:31 am
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2723

John Kerry Calls for May 15 Deadline for Iraq to Get it Together or We’ll Withdraw
April 4th, 2006 @ 11:09 pm
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2527

John Kerry Speaks on His Iraq Strategy: Two Deadlines and an Exit, Introduces Senate Resolution on Iraq
April 6th, 2006 @ 9:43 am
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2543
http://www.thedemocraticdaily.com/04.06.05_Kerry_Iraq_resolution.pdf

On the Environment...

Kerry and Cantwell Lead Call for National Summit on Energy Independence
Thursday, April 6th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2551

John Kerry: Five Better Ideas than Drilling in the Arctic Refuge
Wednesday, March 15th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2277

John Kerry: “Scientific Censorship Has No Place in the United Sates of America”
Thursday, February 16th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1967

Kerry Talks Alternative Energy in MA
Tuesday, February 14th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1948

Kerry and Senate National Security and Energy Leaders Call on Secretary Rice to Address Addiction to Oil in Testimony Tomorrow
Monday, February 13th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1930


On Healthcare...

John Kerry Fights for “KidsFirst” Health Care Plan
Friday, March 31st, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2484

John Kerry Backs Democratic Small Business Health Care Bill
Wednesday, March 15th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2281

Kerry on Bush’s Health Care Plan: President’s Plan Won’t Work, Time for a New Direction
Wednesday, February 15th, 2006
http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1951

And since you seem to think that Kerry has been sitting around twidling his thumbs since the 2004 election - here's a link to the John Kerry category on The Democratic Daily Blog, as of today there are 658 posts under John Kerry (time for you to catch up on your reading) - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?cat=2

And don't forget to read through these...

John Kerry Press Releases/Statements - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?cat=29
John Kerry In The News - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?cat=6
John Kerry Speeches & Floor Statements - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?cat=4

[saltpoint]

73. Excellent and handy. And what's this? .... why, it's part of the

public record, and accessible to all.

Son of a gun.

[mb7588a]

88. Thank you for answering the question.

It was a question, not an indictment as others have treated it. I will definitely check out your links. Thanks again.

[subutane]

95. pukes a little bit

...hits self in head with shovel....

[Lexingtonian]

79. well, now....

He's only the point man and flak catcher on matters Iraq. Merely. Moving slowly but deliberately, and doing his part to pry moderate Republicans away from the White House policy (such as it is).

Yeah, it's not sexy, but it has to be done. John Murtha can only do and risk so much, and is easy to swamp and endanger in his district. Kerry can cut through the media noise and draw the WH into overreaction against him without further damage.

Yeah, he's been slow to appearances. But the game is about getting to moderate Pubbies with enough cred at the point at which they're (finally) looking for a Democrat who's talking about a sensible alternative. That point was finally reached in the last couple of weeks.

I wouldn't be surprised if JK is more skeptical about another run than you are. But as a Senator you are really only able to get media attention if you're the Majority Leader, a problem (Santorum, Roberts, Stevens), selling out your Party (Lieberman, Chaffee, Specter etc), or pretending to be running for President (Biden, Hillary Clinton, Kerry).

I say he's being a good soldier for the cause. As for his strategy, tactics, and style...if this past 15 years is a slow recapitulation of the Civil War, he's the Sherman figure in it. Sherman as respected but unloved, ignored, or given obloquy by Northerners except his own army and Ulysses Grant. Sherman was first coldly despised by common Southern soldiers, then vociferously hated and slandered, then helplessly obloquied but passionately excoriated, and ultimately (in North Carolina) the letters speak of Southern demoralization and certainty of ruin just by his showing up with his men.

[ginnyinWI]

91. interesting take

--that he's trying to get to the moderate repubs. At first glance you'd think, no, he's got such a liberal reputation, so how could he, but then he's now got credibility with moderates for almost winning the presidency, and also for being a Vietnam vet. It's true, he can certainly draw fire from the WH and the RNC, and already has over this speech.

At the same time he's speaking to the left by being one of the main voices against the war among leading Dems. So it's hard to be sure who he's directing it at, specifically. I think primarily he's doing it out of concern for the troops (his life-long cause) and also for the reputation of the U.S. to the rest of the world.

[zulchzulu]

82. A little pity party from someone who hopefully won't work for Kerry

Please do not worry for any campaign for that matter. We don't need your petulant negative "energy".

[seabeyond]

85. i see absolutely no reason for your animosity of kerry in your post

nothing in it shows me why you should be attacking kerry in this fashion. i think that your post stating what has kerry done for us is crap. and he can only receive your approval if kerry and kerry alone gets all the dems elected in 06, gives you health care and student loans? what, while repugs still have the power, or is this after kerry personally gets all dems elected?

hey, do you have any expectation of the other dem senators, or just kerry?

on edit: i am ready to vote for kerry, and work for kerry. i am very much hoping he will be our man '08. wont be a hard one for me

[LittleClarkie]

87. Eh, so don't vote for him. Vote for Feingold.

And catch us if you can.

But I worked my ass off too back in 2004, the first time I ever did for any candidates. And I still want now what I wanted then. It still hurts. I still look at our current moron and want to cry.

Feingold would be fine. Clark would be fine. I'd hold my nose and vote for Hillary.

But I, and the bumpersticker on my car, say the man I really want is John Kerry.

And if he announces at the end of this year, I'll be there.

If he decides not to run, I'll STILL be there.

But for now I'm trying to get Dems elected for 2006. So is he, by the way. That's one thing he's done for us lately.

As Edwards said in his farewell to the Senate speech, we are all the better for having Kerry in the Senate. He is a good man.

AS you say, he could still be a good president. And if he does make it this time, THAT will be what he's done for us lately.

[mb7588a]

89. As I've said upthread,

I didn't mean to speak on behalf of or represent Feingold. It's my signature, it's in all my posts. I spoke on my own behalf, with my own experiences, and my own opinions...

[LittleClarkie]

90. And I mine.

I didn't start off a real Kerry supporter in 2004, but I damn well ended up one.

I'm a stubborn Norwegian. I want what I wanted, and I'm not done trying to get it yet. So there.

:P

[seabeyond]

92. gosh

i dont know what i am. scottish, irish, english, german, italian, swedish?????

but i am stubborn too. and i get what i want too. and look. you and i want the same thing. kul.

[wisteria]

93. As a John Kerry supporter I have come to anticipate attacks on him,

his character,on his good deeds, his opinions, his efforts, etc.. It is always the same old junk, recycled every time he makes news. I could wager a bet that about 24 hrs after media attention, the negative posts appear. They are always meansprited and are motivated by a desire to see Kerry fade away or considered or thought of in a bad light, so their candidate can shine. If you will notice however, John Kerry supports are confident in the man they support and rarely, if ever post insulting and meansprited posts about other candidates. We may discuss policy differences,we however, never post such suggestions as, Feingold can't even hold a marriage together, how do you expect him to run the country kind of comments- or Feingold would never appeal to anyone but the way to left liberals types, therefore he doesn't stand a chance. Now, I am just using these as examples, they do not reflect my beliefs or my opinion of Feingold. But,I think it is important that you recognize how you come off. We are all of one party aren't we? We are not involved in a primary race right now- even though some of these anti-Kerry comments wouldn't be appropriate even then. If you don't care for John Kerry, I am very sorry to hear about it, if you are hurt or still upset by the 2004 election, I think you really have to consider letting the past go. Stop thinking about it for a while. You may just discover, that if you step back and view it from another perspective, you might just gain an understanding of Senator Kerry's position.
We are Democrats, we have many talented politicians, lets embrace them when they do something good and positive for our party. There is plenty of time for primary wars and when they take place, I am sure the best person will win. In the meantime,consider that John Kerry supporters may be called on to support Senator Feingold someday. Your behavior may well influence their decision to help out Feingold or another Democrat.

[kitticup]

94. My thoughts on Kerry...

He's the Peter Parker/Spiderman of Politics. He fights the good fight, gets crap from everyone, and has to deal with an incedibly basised media (although I thing the Corporate Shill Media we now have could give Jay Jonah Jameson some pointers on how to smear a good man).

More seriously, I like Kerry. He is a good man who has a good head on his shoulders and a good heart. He's not the flashiest guy, but he is solid get the work done type. I look at a person's record/acts throughout their lifetime when I chose who I will support in 2008. I am not that interested in speeches, because anyone can give a pretty speech.

Kerry will make the short list, because he has been fighting the good fight since he was 27, even when he was being attacked on the right and left. I think Kerry is incorruptible; I don't feel that way about Biden, Richardson or Hillary. I think he will be a great President if given a chance.

[sweetheart]

96. How childish

I support john kerry 'cuz one way or another, however confused, he
has fought the good fight, and continues to.

I support ALL the dems who oppose and all who run. the 08 presidency
is not important right now... its the 06 house, and for that i don't
have to give a thumbs up or down on kerry, or clinton, or clark, or
gore, or or or..

I'm for waiting and making a choice from the heart without judgement
based on unrealistic expectations.

[BooScout]

97. Sigh....

I understand where you are coming from. I voted for Kerry. Would vote for & wholly support him again IF he wins the nomination, BUT I want a fresh face for 2008. Hopefully someone without too much baggage. Someone willing to go to the mat for us all. Someone who's a real lefty (not that Kerry isn't & I am prepared very much to support a centralist for the cause of winning back the county).

I was dissappointed in many of the ways in which the Kerry campaign was run. More than that, I was disappointed that by the time the primaries got to my state(Georgia at the time).....Kerry was a done deal as the nominee. I never got to vote for Dean, he was still on the ballot but had already been run out of the race. My state was pretty much ignored anyway since it was considered to be a red state and not worth campaigning in.

One thing I find completely discouraging is some of the posts around this place lately laying into anyone who mentions supporting other candidates than Kerry. There aren't too many that do that, but the ones tht do seem to be prolific in their posts on the subject, thus giving the impression there seems to be many that feel as they do. Going around sneering those that actually support similar political platforms but simply want someone else to have a chance can be more than irritating thing. It's almost enough to put me off of even supporting Kerry if he does achieve the nomination.

At this point I have not made my decision on who to support in the primaries......frankly I'm waiting to see just who actually throws their hat in the ring. I am studying the potential candidates and their stands on issues that are dear to me. I am also weighing their electability factors. I would love to see a far ledt liberal get the nod but am realistic enough to undertand it's probably going to have to be someone more towards the center.

Let me just say that the style some here take towards tryng to bully their opinions regarding Kerry on those who may think otherwise is not doing their candidate a bit of good. Calling people liars, RWingers, misinformed idiots, etc just isn't going to gain you any support and will in fact push people further away from your candidate.

[Mass]

98. Please, dont switch the issue. I dont think there are many Kerry

supporters here going around and saying that X,Y, or Z should not run because they dont have a chance. Unfortunately, some people here are actually coming here each time somebody does something good and bash him for the sake of bashing him and you are surprised Kerry supporters answer.

I would largely prefer to spend time talking about positive achievements of Democrats in general, but people like you make that very difficult. Obviously, I could put you in ignore (just as you could put the people you dont like in ignore), but why should have I to do that?

Sure, the OP may wish Kerry does not run on 08, but dont I have the right to say I disagree. Anyway, it seems that these threads appear each time Kerry does something good. It tells a lot.

[ray of light]

99. Excellent point!

And frankly, all the democrats need to start siding together to create a positive environment for people to vote democratic. The backstabbing has to stop!

And like you, I have not seen any Kerry supporters initiating slams against other contenders. I see them rising to the defense, but not smearing other candidates.

I also think if someone says, "He ran in 04 so give someone else a chance..." Well, so did Feingold, Dean, Leiberman, ect...does that mean none of those people should get a chance either? After all, they didn't win in the primary, so they should just step aside too!

I think it's flawed logic to say, "you had your shot, now move on..."

Personally, I'd like to see every candidate putting aside ego and going out and supporting the Democratic mission and the American people from here on out, then 08 will take care of itself!

[BooScout]

102. I'm not switching the issue....

The title of the post is 'Thoughts on Kerry'....which I just gave. Thank you for proving my point btw.:eyes:

[ProSense]

105. Pointing out the facts is not bullying

If I said something that wasn't factual about the candidate you support, you'd point out the incorrect statement too. That happens here on DU all the time.

It's funny how people attack Kerry for not responding to the SBVT, but expect his supporters to ignore disinformation and misinformation. That's part of correcting false perceptions, having a grassroots pushing the facts.

[saltpoint]

109. The OP is not a Kerry supporter but slammed him right out of the gate.

Your criticism is misplaced.

[trof]

106. I gave time and more money than I could afford.

I thought it was worth it.
I'm retired and have the time.
I don't have a lot of money.
But maybe my few dollars, and a lot of other folks' few dollars, could make a difference.

Watching the debacle in Ohio unwind was Florida 2000 deja vu all over again.
And I felt like I had been just left hanging there.
Where were the armies of attorneys and investigators to shine a bright light on this vote fraud?
Yeah. Where?

I am still disappointed and disillusioned.
I'll still vote the straight ticket, but with little enthusiasm.

108. I think he has highest ideals, but he doesn't feel he owes

anything to the American people or that he is truly working for us. It seems he is kind of shallow in some respects. I have a better feeling from Dean in terms of dedication to the people.

[saltpoint]

113. "Shallow" doesn't seem quite the word for a public servant with

a resume' like Kerry's.

It just doesn't.

[merkins]

111. K&R

[mb7588a]

112. That pic is sickening. Probably a fake? nt.