How well do the Toyota and Honda workers do?

[question everything]

In CNN "On the Money" someone commented about how Toyota has been doing very well and someone else commented that the "big three" American automakers are caught in the union agreements.

One issue has been health care that it is said contributes $1,500 to the price of each car, as opposed to cars manufactured overseas where the governments provide universal health care. (It would have been nice had the presidents of these corporations took the lead in pushing for universal health care.. a separate topic).

But I wonder how workers in the local Toyota and Honda and others fare. We know that they have large plants in.. Alabama, or Mississippi, not sure, clearly in states with no strong union tradition. And I wonder how these plants operate. We know that the employers are profitable but what about the standard of living of the workers?

Anyone knows?

[thatsrightimirish]

1. well there is this

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0502/23/A01-98482.htm
and this, http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/01/1201/union06.html and this http://goldsea.com/Asiagate/602/13bonuses.html

Right now that's all the info I can find. Hope this helps!

[Coastie for Truth]

4. Back in the 1960's CMU Econ Prof Leonard Rapping

published a paper on "Spill Over Effect". His theory, based on the specialty steel products industry, was that workers will not vote for a union if their total (1) comp package and (2) "job satisfaction" is incrementally better then that for union workers - in the same type of jobs and the same type of industry.

Side note: think of how much "US" production is now done on "The 401" highway across Ontario - where health care is a tax based.

[LeftyMom]

2. Honda has a big plant in Ohio outside Columbus

I can't tell you much about the place since I'm not from the area but I never heard anything bad about it from anyone nearby.

[Rosemary2205]

3. Family member works at Georgetown Toyota plant

American Toyota workers have nearly identical bennies as UAW workers from what I understand. The pay is about 90% of UAW pay. The big difference is Toyota does not have healthcare costs in Japan because of socialized medicine. In addition, they do not have the retiree costs because Toyota has not had their plants here long enough to have masses of retirees. This is a tremendous financial advantage.

IMHO, Ford and GM have F'd over their retirees with the help of the federal gov't. Pension funds were not fully funded and savings for retiree healthcare were not fully funded. Instead retiree costs were largely being covered by current sales profits. No problem with SUV and truck sales hand over fist in the 80's and 90's. - so basically now they are having run away healthcare costs coupled with sagging sales.

I don't know about GM, but I do know Ford is still turning a profit thanks to it's global profits. The north American division lost money. Poor quality, vehicle choices no one wants, healthcare costs through the roof, not enough savings in the "fat" years - it all adds up.

[question everything]

18. Please do not use the term "socialized medicine"

We like to say, instead, universal health care.

This country is the only one of the industrial world, and even among non-industrialized ones, that does not see providing health care to all its citizens, supported by taxes - as an obligation.

I always like to compare it to public schools. We provide schools to every child, regardless of family income, "Pre-existing conditions" or job status. All of us pay taxes whether or not we have children in schools. And those of us who want private schools, pay for them from their own pockets. And as much as many complain about public schools, no one refer to them as "socialized schools" (at least, I have not heard this).

I do appreciate your post and thank you for that.

[LostinVA]

21. I have a friend who has lived in Japan since 1987

They do pay part of their health care costs, a bit more than Canadians do (his wife is Canadian, btw).

[The Straight Story]

5. Pretty well from what I recall

I worked for a subsidarary of them for some time in the 90's and they took good care of their people. From health insurance to a variety of things.

I had my issues with them to be sure, but overall people made a decent wage and most their health care was paid for.

I have visited their plants in Marysville (OH) and in Canada. My brother also work for them for 14 years until he quit due to politics.

On the downside - they were sticklers for time and attendance. You miss 1 minute and your bonus for the month was gone and you started over (and I missed 1 minute in 18 months due to wife having baby and had to start all over on time and bonuses). On the upside they were kind and made sure the employees had what they needed at a reasonable rate (to wit - I paid $20/mo for health insurance vs $300 now and I work for a bigger, US, company).

[napi21]

8. Please explain the 1 minute thing a bit more.

When you say "miss 1 minute" do you mean you were 1 minute late one day, or that noone was ever permitted to be off one day sick?

[The Straight Story]

9. 1 minute late

Let me explain more:

If you were on time each month (ie, did not miss anytime/were not late) you got a bonus that month. Each month you did so you got more.

As time went on if you kept up good attendance you got more and more.

I went 18 months, 6 days a week, without missing any time at all. I would leave friday at Midnight and be in at 3am Saturday for OT. One day I missed due to car breaking down. Was about 5 min late - so I had to start the whole process over (ie, my monthly bonuses were back to minimum even though it was an OT day I was coming in on).

Basically it went 30, 30, 60, 35,35, 90 and so on (ie, $30/month, then 30, then 60, and so on). That money meant a lot to me back then. I had an hour drive but was always an hour early just to make sure I could keep upping my small bonus each month.

[napi21]

11. Interesting phylosophy they have.

I sure can understand your frustration with it, but I can understand theirs too.

It's a pretty compelling reason to keep the employees from getting lazy.

I know, right now, ny husband compalins all the time about the folks he works with wandering in 5, 15 or 30 minutes late all the time, and they have NO excuse. Most of them live within 15 minutes of work, and are just too lazy to get their butts moving.

[Rosemary2205]

10. I can say assembly workers

are not penalized for sick days with a doctors note and there is a fairly easy procedure for getting family leave. He also has paid personal leave days that are scheduled in advance.

[napi21]

13. The only problem I have with the mandatory Dr's excuse is that

it forces people to come to work when they really shouldn't! I believe that's how the flu gets spread so widely every year! I'm probably more guilty than anyone of going to work no matter what. I worked for 3 years and never used a sick day. I think about that now, and I wonder how many people got sick BECAUSE OF ME? I'm sorry now, but you can't go back.

[justice1]

6. When hospitals see GM insurance, they see$$$.

My sister was on disability and received medicaid. Her SO worked for GM, the difference in the treatment they received was astounding.

[Rosemary2205]

7. any insurance vs medicaid makes a difference

medicaid is a complete pain the everyplace for everyone involved. It's only better than nothing at all.

[justice1]

17. I should have explained better.

I went to visit my sister I hadn't seen in a couple of years. Her SO wanted to do something with us, but he was scheduled to work, and needed a Dr.s note.

He went to a clinic in the morning, while we waited for him. Hours passed and we started joking they were running CAT scans on him.

When he finally came home that evening, he threw a bunch of free samples of medication down. He proceeded to tell us the story of what happened that day. He had told the Dr. he had a "headache", so they ran a battery of tests including a CAT scan. It was unbelievable.

They told me of other incidents that night, about the rampant problem. GM went after some of the Dr.'s for fraud, but it was still common place.

Right now, I won't even get into what my sister has gone through, other than to say, we had her funeral 2 weeks ago.

[Yollam]

12. Governments "provide" universal health care...

That is a somewhat deceptive statement. While it is true that the government here in Japan MANAGES he two main health care schemes that make up the universal system here, it should be said that most people pay a premium, usually about $70 per month, which is matched by their employer, then they pay a copayment of about $10 at the doctor's office. The overall cost is much, much much cheaper to the consumer than any US HMO, because in the US, there are multiple redundant middlemen, (especially in the case of medicaid and other government health care schemes) that are all trying to gouge the consumer, the employer and the government for every penny.

We pay the highest amount by far of any country in the world and get subpar care for only 60% of the people for our money.

I just want to clarify that the Japanese system, while very egalitarian and inexpensive, is not a government freebie. People do pay for it.

[napi21]

14. Of course you do. So do the people in Europe who have

universal health care. It's different than Japan, but the people in Europe pay for it mostly via gas tax and other taxes they pay. People in the US would be outraged if they had to pay the amount of taxes that are paid in Europe.

[Rosemary2205]

15. Thank you

I knew there was a consumer cost involved but I was not aware the employer also paid in. Thanks for the education! :)

[Art_from_Ark]

16. I don't know what system you've got, but I've got Kokumin-hoken

insurance. My premium is currently about $90/month for each member of my family. My employer does not match my premium. When I go to the doctor, I have to pay 30% of the bill, and the insurance pays the rest.

[Yollam]

22. The employer matches with shakai hoken

You must have a pretty good income to pay such high premiums?

[question everything]

20. The main difference, I think is that you are covered

regardless of your income or state of employment.

This is what many of us, who support universal health care want.

Sure it will be supported by our taxes, just as schools, clean water and safe roads and bridges are.

But as long as many do not care, they think that they will always have good jobs and generous health insurance, they will vote no on universal health care.

We, liberals, tend to think outside our immediate needs and this is why we do not wait until we are out of work, until medical catastrophe happens where our insurance will not cover - to push for such a system.

But I think that most union workers and others who are secured in their jobs do not want universal health care. By definition it will not be as generous as what many of us have now. By definition it will have some ratios.

Many compare it to Medicare. I don't know about it. Yet. Does anyone know what type of restrictions - in term of doctors and other benefits - are built in there?

This is why I like to compare it to our public school systems - yes, even with all the complaints. We support them with our taxes, no child is denied enrollment, but if you want to, you send your kid to a private school that you pay yourself.

[ComerPerro]

19. If a company can't produce a product and keep prices low

while operating in an ethical manner and treating their employees like human beings, then maybe the CEOs should be thrown out for gross incompetence and excessive greed...