When will the Iraqi death toll top the death toll of 9-11-2001

[mdmc]

Poll question: When will the Iraqi death toll top the death toll of 9-11-2001

I live in Orange County, NY. If memory serves correctly, Orange County lost 8 citizens during the 9-11-2001 terrorist attacks. To date, Orange County has lost 3 soldiers in the Iraqi war.

I would like to know when you think that American losses in Iraq will become higher then American losses that resulted from the 9-11-2001 terrorist attacks.

Please post if you have any questions and I will attempt to clarify. Thanks DU!

[niyad]

1. I am having real trouble looking at this as a polling issue.

[theHandpuppet]

6. Yeah, me too.

To say that I find this distasteful would be an understatement.

[mdmc]

8. that I can understand

It is in very poor taste to speculate on the death toll of our fellow Americans. I was trying to determine how long we will be in Iraq, and if it was worth it to go to Iraq.

Do you think that we will still be there in 50 years? When will the violence cease? Will we end up losing more Americans due to a terrorist attack or due to a war of choice (not a war of necessity).

[theHandpuppet]

26. Then just ask the questions

Instead, you constructed a poll that reads as if it was penned by a Las Vegas bookmaker. I find that extremely distasteful.

[mdmc]

29. I actually got the idea from Ashcroft and his terra market exchange

Upon reflection, it is pretty crude. I was trying to develop the idea that we might be in Iraq for over 50 years, and that eventually, most likely the "cure" of 9-11-2001, namely "fighting them over there", would be worse then the event (9-11-2001) that it was set up to rectify.

I am sorry for the distastefulness of my OP.

[mdmc]

7. why

what troubles you?

[mike_c]

2. with well over one million Iraqis killed since the imposition...

...of sanctions and the subsequent invasion, this question seems pretty insignificant.

[mdmc]

4. "We are safer with Saddam Hussein in jail, instead of President"

As long as people believe this to be true, preemption will remain a viable strategy.

This poll asks three things
1. Are we really safer (look at the amount of American deaths)
2. How long will we be in Iraq?
3. Was it worth it?

[T Wolf]

11. Amen!!!! Of course, most Americans only care about

American dead. And most do not even care about them unless they happen to know someone personally affected. We are a cold-hearted people.

[ThomWV]

3. 72 Seconds Into The War. Iraq's Dead Count Too nt

[mdmc]

5. excellent point thomwv

I excluded all but American deaths in order to help understand how long we will be there and if it was worth it.

[misternormal]

9. There is no doubt that it is not worth it...

[mdmc]

10. ask Hillary Clinton, Joe Leiberman, Chuck Schumer

I think that they all think that it was in fact worth it.

[Roland99]

12. Ah...clicked 2007...meant 2006. And, actually, aren't we already there?

Esp. when you count the contractors.

Official toll from 9/11 is 2,986 according to Wikipedia.

[shain from kane]

17. I don't want to appear to be insensitive to the Iraqi deaths

or the coalition deaths, but how many of the 2,986 from 9/11 were United States citizens? And how many United States citizens have died due to the Iraqi and Afganistan conflicts since 9/11? And I believe that we should include soldiers, hostages, reporters, contractors, noncombat deaths.
I believe that this comparison would produce results that are very close in totals.

[Roland99]

24. Not sure of the breakdown on US citizens vs. foreigners from 9/11 but

http://icasualties.org has breakdowns of soldier deaths in various manners.

[GeorgeGist]

13. I know the number of Iraqi deaths topped 9/11...

a long, long time ago. Oh, but Iraqis deaths don't count do they. :sarcasm:

[mdmc]

14. this poll only concerns the deaths of Americans

I am trying to find out how long people think we will be in iraq, if people think that the violence will remain at its current level, and if it was worth it.

With all due respect, if we have less war casualties from Iraq then we did from 9-11, and we leave Iraq with a stable, pro western democracy, i think that one could argue that the war was a success.

[Minstrel Boy]

15. anyone have a breakdown of the nationalities of 9/11 victims?

I know 25 Canadians died, and I know there were many more from other nations. But it's made convenient propaganda in the years since the attacks to make believe that all of the victims were American.

I think US Iraqi deaths may have already surpassed the number of American dead from 9/11.

[mdmc]

16. i don't have the breakdown

sorry

[shain from kane]

18. See my reply #17 above. I also believe that the strict comparison

of United States citizens who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11, would exceed the number of United States citizens who died on 9/11.
Does anyone remember the Mayeguez (sp?)incident, or even the rescue operation in Iran, or even our loss of forces in Lebanon? There is a long history in wasted lives due to our interventions.

[Spazito]

21. I have been trying to find that out as well but have not yet found

the breakdown, I do remember citizens of 60 countries died as a result of the attack. I am going to keep searching because it irks me to hear ad nauseum the meme that almost 3 thousand Americans died in the attack when we know that is false (this criticism is not directed at the OP and the poll, it is just a general criticism that the OP reminded me of how irked I am on this issue.)

Edited to add: This is what I have found so far in my search:

2,740 Americans died in the September 11 attack.

As of June 2004, the official death count is listed as 2,976, here:

Most 9/11 Families Opt For Fund
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/15/national/main623139.shtml

Wikpedia lists victims by country, and excludes the terrorists, which
references 236 foreigners that died in the attack:

Non-American casualties of the September 11, 2001 Attacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-American_casualties_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_Attacks

TOTAL COUNT 2,976
minus foreigners - 236
AMERICANS 2,740

It's difficult to find an official number, reference this interesting article:

more

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=434113

[mdmc]

32. thanks for these links

[Zynx]

34. There's one on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-American_casualties_of_the_September_11%2C_2001_Attacks

[ContraBass Black]

19. 597 to go.

If the current rate holds, it will be a little over a year.

[mdmc]

20. i didn't know this

[tjwash]

22. It already did, a loooooong time ago.

Not to be smarmy, but you are only talking about U.S. soldiers. You forgot the Innocent Iraqi civilians that were killed, as a result of the war we started out there, and people killed by suicide bombers, as well as the deaths by disease, malnutrition, and other war related causes.

Also the official death toll of U.S. soldiers is not a true number, as these are only the deaths incurred on the battlefield. If someone was critically wounded, and helicoptered away, where they later died at a hospital in Germany, they were not counted as part of the toll.

[mdmc]

23. 9-11 allowed the iraq war

when will the iraq war be a worse cause of death for americans.

[anarch]

25. the Iraqi death toll? I think that happened on or about March 20, 2003...

[ghostsofgiants]

27. Why is this poll exclusive to American deaths?

Surely tens of thousands (if not more) dead Iraqis would put the war a little above the 9/11 death toll.

[mdmc]

30. The cure of 9-11-01 "fighting them overthere" is an idea

to make Americans safer. It really is not concerned that this action will harm residents of Europe, the Middle East, or any where else.

[MrPrax]

28. Why are you

linking Iraq to 9/11?

Why did you post the topic as 'Iraqi death toll' when you mean 'American death toll'?

What does 2075 have to do with anything? We do know however what the toll will be in 2009?

What this 'satire' piece your inspiration?

[mdmc]

31. The Iraq war was a result of 9-11-01 (imho)

we would never be in Iraq if 9-11-01, or another Bush made event, created a desire to wage war. 9-11-2001 created the American desire for war, safety, and revenge. Bush ran with it.

What does 2075 have to do with anything? How long will we be in Iraq? The way I see it, we can either withdraw once a pro-west democracy is flourishing in Iraq, or we can leave anytime in a vietnam style defeat. I don't think that we are ready for a vietnam style defeat. I don't think that Iraq is ready for a pro west democracy. So how long will we be there?

Once more Americans have died in Iraq then in the 9-11-2001 terrorist attacks, the American people will think less about occupation, and more about returning the troops back home. When do you think this will happen?

Lastly, if American troops are still in Iraq in 2075, and the American troop death toll is not above the 9-11-2001 death toll, then the Iraq war would have been a huge success. 3000 casualties for 73 years of occupation is a great success rate.

The Bush administration all thought that we would be out of Iraq by now. When will we leave?

[Zynx]

33. If we lose more soldiers in Iraq than Americans died on 9/11, the question

will be, "Did this War on Terror prevent another 9/11 or did it cause another one?".