Dispelling myths

[ProSense]

Myth: Kerry did not speak out against the war before it started.

I believe the Bush Administration's blustering unilateralism is wrong, and even dangerous, for our country. In practice, it has meant alienating our long-time friends and allies, alarming potential foes and spreading anti-Americanism around the world.

Snip…

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.

http://kerry.senate.gov/high/record.cfm?id=189831

Myth: Kerry didn't speak up about withdrawal, so it's too little too late.

Text: Kerry Lays Out Iraq Plan
eMediaMillWorks
Monday, September 20, 2004; 12:10 PM
Following is the text of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's speech delivered in New York.

Snip...

Again, I repeat, every month that's gone by, every offer of help spurned, every alternative not taken for these past months has made this more difficult and those were this president's choices. But even countries that refused to put boots on the ground in Iraq ought to still be prepared to help the United Nations hold an election.

We should also intensify the training of Iraqis to manage and guard the polling places that need to be opened. Otherwise, U.S. forces will end up bearing that burden alone.

If the president would move in this direction, if he would bring in more help from other countries to provide resources and to train the Iraqis to provide their own security and to develop a reconstruction plan that brings real benefits to the Iraqi people, and take the steps necessary to hold elections next year, if all of that happened, we could begin to withdraw U.S. forces starting next summer and realistically aim to bring our troops home within the next four years.

That can achieved.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35515-2004Sep20?language=printer

Kerry Hits Nail on Head
By Marjorie Cohn t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Monday 04 October 2004

Snip...

John Kerry cut to the heart of the matter when he said during Thursday’s debate with George W. Bush that, "a critical component of success in Iraq is being able to convince the Iraqis and the Arab world that the United States doesn’t have long-term designs on it." Kerry cited the U.S. construction of 14 military bases in Iraq that are said to have "a rather permanent concept to them."

Building these bases belies Bush’s protestations that he has "no ambitions of empire."

Snip...

Yes, as Kerry said, Bush made "a colossal error of judgment" when he invaded Iraq. "I will make a flat statement," Kerry declared during the debate. "The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq." With that promise, John Kerry turned the policy of Team Bush on its head. Kerry was also right on when, responding to Bush’s debate mantra that Kerry sends mixed messages, the Senator said: "You talk about mixed messages. We’re telling other people, ‘You can’t have nuclear weapons,’ but we’re pursuing a new nuclear weapon that we might even contemplate using."

more...

http://www.uncle-scam.com/Breaking/oct-04/to-10-4.pdf#search=

06/28/2005
John Kerry Speaks Out on Iraq, Details Concrete Steps President Must Take to Rescue the Mission

Snip...

“Getting it right also means putting together a real plan for the training of Iraqi troops and following through on it. This should be our top priority. It’s the key to getting our troops home and avoiding a humiliating withdrawal. It’s time to move beyond fudging the numbers and finally put the training of Iraqi troops on a true six-month wartime footing, which includes ensuring the Iraqi government has the budget necessary to deploy them. It’s also time to stop using the in-country training requirement as an excuse for refusing offers made by Egypt, Jordan, France and Germany to do more. Why would we turn down this opportunity to give our troops the relief they deserve?

“Getting it right also means drawing up a detailed plan with the clear milestone of transfer of military and police responsibilities to Iraqis after the December elections. The Administration’s plan should take into account both political and security objectives, including Iraqi force structure, and be specifically tied to a defined series of tasks and accomplishments. This plan must be more than dates and numbers - it must make clear to the Iraqi government that American patience is limited.

http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=239696&

June 28, 2005
The Speech the President Should Give
By JOHN F. KERRY
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/headlines/pdf/kerry_6_28_05_New_York_times.pdf

10/26/2005
Senator John Kerry Lays Out Path Forward in Iraq
If Administration Acts Responsibly, We Can Stabilize Iraq and Reduce Combat Forces With Successful December Elections, Draw Down 20,000 Troops by the End of 2005
http://kerry.senate.gov/v3/cfm/record.cfm?id=247764&

Myth: Kerry cut and run even though he said he’d count every vote

Today, Kerry-Edwards filed a document in support of that statement. Most significant, Kerry-Edwards also filed today a separate document in support of our motion for hearing with two critical attachments: 1) a declaration from Kerry-Edwards attorney Don McTigue regarding a survey he conducted of Kerry-Edwards county recount coordinators; 2) a summary chart of the results of that survey (which highlight the inconsistent standards applied during the recount).

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/2/24/183243/756


http://www.truthout.org/pdf/cobbbadnariktransfertatement22305.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmctiguedecl22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardsmotionforhearing22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardssummarychart22405.pdf
http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardstransferstatement22405.pdf

Myth: Kerry should have fought the election because there was evidence

Whether the cumulative effect of these legal violations would have altered the actual outcome is not known at this time. However, we do know that there are many serious and intentional violations which violate Ohio’s own law, that the Secretary of State has done everything in his power to avoid accounting for such violations, and it is incumbent on Congress to protect the integrity of its own laws by recognizing the seriousness of these legal violations.

B. Need for Further Congressional Hearings

It is also clear the U.S. Congress needs to conduct additional and more vigorous hearings into the irregularities in the Ohio presidential election and around the country.

While we have conducted our own Democratic hearings and investigation, we have been handicapped by the fact that key participants in the election, such as Secretary of State Blackwell, have refused to cooperate in our hearings or respond to Mr. Conyers questions. While GAO officials are prepared to move forward with a wide ranging analysis of systemic problems in the 2004 elections, they are not planning to conduct the kind of specific investigation needed to get to the bottom of the range of problems evident in Ohio. As a result, it appears that the only means of obtaining his cooperation in any congressional investigation is under the threat of subpoena, which only the Majority may require.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/issues/issues/election.html

Myth: Kerry has done nothing about reform since the election

DECEPTIVE PRACTICES AND VOTER INTIMIDATION PREVENTION -- (Senate - November 10, 2005)
GPO's PDF

--- Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I proudly join as a cosponsor of Senator Obama's Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act of 2005. This important legislation will protect voters from the deceptive practices that aimed to keep them from the polls on election day.

Free and fair elections are the foundation of our democracy--a democracy built on the unassailable principle that every single American should have an equal say in their government. No American should ever approach their polling place in fear. No American should ever worry that they will somehow be penalized for exercising their fundamental right to vote . No American should ever be tricked into thinking they do not have the right to vote .

The Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevent Act takes great strides towards ensuring that no American will ever be denied the right to vote . It both criminalizes deceptive practices and provides affected individuals with a private right of action. It prevents the negative effects of deceptive practices by ensuring voters get accurate election information. It also requires the Attorney General to report allegations of deceptive practices, the actions taken to correct them, and any prosecutions resulting from those allegations.

We have worked hard to bring fair and free elections to people around the word-including the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. We must do everything in our power to ensure that our own elections are at least as fair and as free.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2005_record&page=S12679&position=all



S.1975
Title: A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack (introduced 11/8/2005) Cosponsors (4)
Related Bills: H.R.4463
Latest Major Action: 11/8/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COSPONSORS(4), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)
Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham - 12/12/2005
Sen Feingold, Russell D. - 12/12/2005
Sen Kerry, John F. - 11/10/2005
Sen Leahy, Patrick J. - 12/12/2005

S.450
Title: A bill to amend the Help America Vote Act of 2002 to require a voter-verified paper record, to improve provisional balloting, to impose additional requirements under such Act, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham (introduced 2/17/2005) Cosponsors (6)
Related Bills: H.R.939
Latest Major Action: 2/17/2005 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COSPONSORS(6), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)
Sen Boxer, Barbara - 2/17/2005
Sen Dayton, Mark - 3/7/2005
Sen Kerry, John F. - 2/17/2005
Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. - 2/17/2005
Sen Leahy, Patrick J. - 3/1/2005
Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. - 2/17/2005

[Proud_Democratt]

1. Great, Great Article!

You showed your sources and executed them in a timely manner!

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. But, but... that's a lot of READIN'!

Who needs readin' and facts when I can rattle off a kneejerk cut-and-paste attack in five seconds?

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

9. Yeah, it needs to be on a postcard

And, uhm, in one syllable words. :rofl:

[rox63]

3. Fantastic resource!

Thanks for the wonderfully informative post. :)

[ray of light]

4. wow!!! Great compilation! I didn't know 1/2 that stuff. Thanx

[politicasista]

5. kick!

:kick:

[whometense]

6. Excellent research!!

Thank you. The truth will set - all of us - free.

[Laurab]

7. Nice work, but damn

don't confuse people with FACTS!

This paragraph was certainly prophetic:

"But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. "

[globalvillage]

8. Wow ProSense

Nice work.

:applause:

[understandinglife]

10. Bookmarked. Recommended. Thank you!

Never Forget: George W. Bush willfully violated National Security to cover-up his willful launch of a war of aggression and illegal occupation of Iraq.

[Island Blue]

11. Yes but, but ...

(Just kidding.) Great job Prosense! K & R. :kick:

[sandnsea]

12. You are just a treasure

That's just all there is to it.

:applause:

[wisteria]

13. Amazing work on your part. Thank you so much for all this info. n/t

[ProSense]

14. Thanks to all of you! n/t

[Sydnie]

15. Thank you!!!

Myths!

[blue cat]

16. Thanks ProSense! n/t

[karynnj]

17. Wow!

This is incredible - you really pulled so much together - these myths are based on ignorance.

[MH1]

18. Great post!!

Here's a first-person account about the aftermath of Ohio:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/4/23/115230/700/26#c26

I worked as a Green volunteer . . . (13+ / 0-)

on the recount here in Ohio and you're right, Kerry's team was here all the way. In one of the counties I witnessed in, his witnesses worked late into the night with our coordinator and uncovered false numbers that led to the revelation that every ballot in the county had been recounted w/o witnesses between the certified vote and the official recount itself.

I think Kerry felt he couldn't get bogged down in protesting the vote here, that the larger strategy of waking the American people to the true intentions of the Bush administration and its perfidy demanded that he kept moving. But that doesn't mean his campaign hasn't been involved in the recount or the lawsuits that have grown out of from it.

The wide range of candidates in the Dem presidential primary broke through the Wurlitzer din, Kerry made himself a lightning rod for Swiftboaters and Republican Gay-bashing hypocricy to expose more of how the BushCo right really operates and what it's about. After the election the battle on SS exposed even more, while all the while in the background the lies and the war continued to play out.

I think if we step back far enough we see a strategy that respects citizens and is working. Democrats drawing media attention to various issues that are ultimately connected -- corruption, congressional toadies, investigative whitewashes, legislative pandering, etc. -- planting the seeds of questioning that challenge the propaganda narrative in place.

I truly admire Kerry and the many Democrats like Murtha, Feingold, Kennedy, Reid, Boxer, etc., who working from different angles to awaken the broader electorate to the real crisis we face . . .

Don't ask me nothin' 'bout nothin'; I just might tell you the truth -- Bob Dylan

by ponderer on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 01:14:12 PM EST

This is a great post because this person - who has a very low uid at dailykos, meaning he's been posting there a long time - is speaking about what he actually saw happening.

[fedupinBushcountry]

19. Excellent post

but remember we are the attackers, because of truth and facts to back it up. :crazy:

:thumbsup: :patriot:

[ProSense]

20. A great quote!

Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. Mythology distracts us everywhere. For the great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate, contrived, and dishonest - but the myth - persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. -- John F. Kennedy

Thanks Sandnsea!

[mopinko]

21. dispel this myth

every vote will be counted.

[ProSense]

24. Can't count what you can't see!

http://www.truthout.org/pdf/kerryedwardssummarychart22405.pdf


Fraud happens!

[MadHound]

22. Why are you continuing to fight an election long over?

Or are you simply gearing up for '08?

The only thing worthwhile in your post is Kerry's actions for election reform. Other than that I think that you are performing an exercise in futility. It is '06 now, we have a lot of other issues to deal with in the here and now, not in the past:shrug:

[ProSense]

25. Truth doesn't have an expiration date! n/t

[Brazenly Liberal]

27. I have to disagree

I know quite a few Democrats who are pissed off at Kerry now because they feel he went back on his promise to make sure every vote counted. It's not about holding onto the past - it's about whether or not his actions show he's a man who can be trusted. It's a very strong perception among a surprisingly large number of people. If it's not true, it needs to be addressed. Waiting for '08 is too late. At that point, to suddenly start saying "You were wrong about me" will look like just so much campaign crap.

One of the bigger mistakes Kerry made in '04 was not addressing the attacks against him quickly and definitively.

[MadHound]

30. Is Kerry running in '08?

We simply don't know, and to engage in this sort of after the fact justification is pointless, again, excepting for the fact of recognizing that Kerry is proposing electoral fraud legislation. Otherwise this sort of effort diverts much needed resources and time away from more pressing problems, like, oh, say the ongoing war in Iraq, the economic shitstorm that is headed our way, the onrushing reality of Peak Oil, etc. etc.

I'm sure that if Kerry is running in '08, he will probably announce so sometime next year. Then it is suitable to address these questions. But until then, this sort of issue can wait. There's a hell of lot more issues that are much more pressing for us to deal with. Stop the campaign tactics until we actually know that there's going to be a campaign.

[Brazenly Liberal]

32. So far, he won't say, but it looks like he is.

In any event, I don't see the harm in someone spending a few minutes thinking or talking about this, frankly. Even if we knew he wasn't running for anything ever again, so what? Spending a little time talking about this doesn't necessarily mean there's any lack of focus on '06.

There's a difference between focus and obsession. A constant level of extreme concentration fairly predictably reaches a point of diminishing returns. Taking time out to look at other things is not harmful and can, in fact, leave one refreshed and better ready to tackle the problem at hand.

I have certain major issues that matter to me, things I think are the most important for me to work on. And I give them their due. But that's not all I think about. I also think about what I'm going to have for dinner, whether or not the idiot down the road will ever learn not to let his dog run loose, whether McCartney or Lennon was the definitive Beatle (Lennon, for sure), etc. And now, for a few minutes, I'm thinking about John Kerry. You are, of course, free to put your energy wherever you like. :)

[politicasista]

33. delete n/t

[politicasista]

34. delete n/t

delete

[sendero]

23. There is nothing so useless..

... as someone who will jawbone against something 'till they are green around the gills and then go ahead and vote for it anyway.

It's called hedging your bet and that is Kerry's specialty.

[ProSense]

26. Nothing so useless as a point irrelevant to the OP. It's a specialty of

people who refuse to acknowledge the truth.

[sendero]

28. I was talking specifically about the Iraq War...

... issue. As for the rest, take the Ohio vote example, DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH.

I could easily refute the rest of it, but who cares. You work for Kerry, and I'll work for ANYONE ELSE.

[ProSense]

29. This isn't a thread about the war. Is the war a myth?

Go ahead, refute away!

[sojourner]

31. Kick! Thanks for posting this! I believe that accurate information is the

"new" currency of democracy. Even though the media is nearly dead to the democratic system of government (we thought) we once knew, saving and posting articles and quotations from the past (from whomever...Kerry, Bush, Gore, Rumsfeld...the whole lot of them) is an extremely effective way of informing the citizenry. Pray that the internet survives long enough to help set us free!

[politicasista]

35. Kick

:kick:

[ProSense]

36. More...

Truth Still Snowed In At The White House Says DNC

Wed Apr 26, 11:03 AM ET

To: National Desk, Political Reporter

Contact: Karen Finney of Democratic National Committee Communications Department, 202-863-8148

Snip...

SNOW: MOUTHPIECE FOR BUSH IN 2004

Snow Said Kerry Was Criticizing the Troops, Not Bush, When He Criticized Action in Iraq. Snow said that 2004 presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry had blamed U.S. troops for the explosives looted from the Al Qaqaa military installation following the invasion of Iraq. Snow said, "The Kerry campaign is not criticizing the president here. They're criticizing our troops because those are the people who were going into the Al Qaqaa facility -- yes, that's its real name, the Al Qaqaa facility -- and what they're saying is, ah, these guys -- you know, they were in such haste to get to Baghdad, they didn't do their job." (FOX News, O'Reilly Factor, 10/26/04)

Snow Repeated Inaccurate Republican Line That Kerry Had Called Terrorists A "Nuisance." Snow said, " President Bush and Senator Kerry are back on the campaign trail, pounding away at each other, verbally, of course. This morning, the president pounced on a quote in Sunday's New York Times Magazine where Senator Kerry called terrorists a nuisance." However, Kerry's quote was actually, "We have to get to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're a nuisance." (FOX News, The O'Reilly Factor, 10/11; St. Petersburg Times, 10/12/04)

Snow Falsely Claimed There Was No Documentary Evidence Proving Swift Boat Veterans Wrong. Snow backed Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's attacks on Kerry, claiming, "(T)here has been no documentary contradiction of the Swift Boat stuff." However, "Military documents and accounts of crewmates who did serve with Kerry support the view put forth by the candidate and his campaign -- that he acted courageously and came by his five medals honestly." (FOX News, O'Reilly Factor, 9/15/04; Los Angeles Times, 8/20/04)

SNOW: RACISM ISN'T THAT BIG A DEAL ANYMORE

Snow in 2003: "Racism Isn't That Big a Deal Anymore." In October 2003, Snow defended Rush Limbaugh's controversial comments that Donovan McNabb was overrated and that reporters are disposed towards black quarterbacks. "The comment wasn't racist," Snow said, "but that did not stop political opportunists from accusing Rush of bias." Snow added, "Here's the unmentionable secret. Racism isn't that big a deal anymore. No sensible person supports it. Nobody of importance preaches it. It's rapidly and thankfully becoming an ugly memory." (Fox News Sunday, 10/5/03)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20060426/pl_usnw/truth_still_snowed_in_at_the_white_house_says_dnc121_xml

[ProSense]

37. More...

When this study Few American Voters Ever Changed Their Minds, showed that nearly 30% of the public (the same number cited by the Carter-Baker Commission) were not confident in the election, including 10% who believed something went wrong, it was a place to start to build public awareness. It would have taken years, but there was tremendous stonewalling on the issue.

From the survey:

Respondents were asked to rate the honesty of the campaigns on a scale of zero to ten. The average for the Bush campaign was 6.8 and for the Kerry campaign it was 7.2. Bush voters gave his campaign less credit for honesty than Kerry voters gave his. Bush voters rated their campaign at an average of 8.4, while Kerry supporters rated his at 9.1. There was less difference in how they rated the opposition. Bush voters gave Kerry’s campaign a 5.4 average; Kerry’s gave the Bush campaign a 5.2.

There was little evidence of post-election reconciliation in the survey, which was conducted from November 4 through December 28. Kerry voters were asked whether they agreed with the statement: “Even though I voted for John Kerry, George Bush will probably be a good president in his second term.”

Only 2 percent strongly agreed and 13 percent somewhat agreed. Fifteen percent somewhat disagreed and 67 percent strongly disagreed. This was a substantially more negative result than Annenberg found from November 3 through 11. At that time, 5 percent of Kerry voters strongly agreed and 25 percent somewhat agreed. Thirteen percent somewhat disagreed and 53 percent strongly disagreed.

Nor were Kerry voters much more reconciled to the idea that their votes had been counted properly. In this survey, 53 percent of Kerry voters said they were “very confident” their votes had been accurately counted, about the same as the 53 percent who said that in the November 3-11 polling. Among Bush voters, 86 percent said they were “very confident” their votes had been counted accurately, up from 62 percent just after the election. For all voters, the figure was 70 percent

The margin of sampling error for all respondents was plus or minus one percentage point. For either Bush or Kerry voters, it was plus or minus two percentage points.

The survey also blows ABB out of the water:

Ever thought would vote for other candidate:

Bush voters 16%
Never: 84%

Kerry Voters 15%
Never: 85%

All voters 15%
Never: 84%

The majority of Kerry voters never entertained the thought of voting for Bush.

[ProSense]

38. More...

Rating Kerry's and Bush's Convention Speeches

Gallup's convention polling this year finds few differences in the public's overall ratings of Kerry's and Bush's acceptance speeches at their respective parties' conventions. A slight majority of Americans, 52%, rated Kerry's speech at the Democratic convention as excellent (25%) or good (27%), while just about half of all Americans rated Bush's speech at the Republican convention as excellent (22%) or good (27%). About one in five adults nationwide rated both speeches as "just okay," and fewer than 1 in 10 said the speeches were "poor" or "terrible."

Again, partisan viewpoints make a big difference in ratings of the acceptance speeches. Eighty-one percent of Democrats rated Kerry's acceptance speech as excellent or good, compared with 52% of independents and 22% of Republicans. Seventy-seven percent of Republicans rated Bush's speech positively, while 42% of independents and 24% of Democrats shared that point of view.

How Did the Conventions Affect Americans' Vote Choice?

When Americans were asked if the conventions made them more likely or less likely to vote for the candidates, Gallup found that Kerry fared slightly better than Bush. After the Democratic convention, 44% of Americans said they were more likely to vote for Kerry, while 30% said they were less likely and 18% voluntarily responded that it didn't make much difference. Polling after the GOP convention found 41% of Americans saying they were more likely to vote for Bush, 38% saying they were less likely, and 18% saying it made no difference.

Following the Democratic convention, 76% of Democrats said they were more likely to vote for Kerry as a result of that convention, compared with 45% of independents and just 11% of Republicans who felt that way. After the Republican convention, the results were essentially the reverse. Seventy-seven percent of Republicans said they were more likely to vote for Bush as a result of the convention, compared with 33% of independents and 8% of Democrats.

http://poll.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=10021&VERSION=p

This is interesting because it's independent (not counting responder bias) of the candidates, it's about rating a speech and the impact of the speech. A lot of Americans drank the kool-aid and this maybe due to their own ignorance or the media's distortion of the facts. How anyone could still think Bush genuine in mid 2004 is beyond reason.