You Vote With Your Wallet Every Single Day

[omega minimo]

“If you ain’t part of the solution, you part of the problem.”

The important word in that quote is PART. We are part of a greater whole, whether it’s a community, a state, a planet or a line at the gas pump. We empower ourselves when we decide to take action by living a life consistent with our values. How do we do that?

If we’re on DU, we’re online and that means we have choices. There is a wide range of lifestyles, incomes and attitudes on this board. The biggest difference between all these folks may be whether we’re “glass half empty” or “glass half full” people. At least there’s a glass. :evilgrin:

We live in the land of convenience, disposability and planned obsolescence. Do we make the most of our power to NOT support companies and products that are destructive to our bodies, the economy and the planet-- or do we decide it doesn’t matter what one person does and go with the Program?

Oh-- I’m sorry. You may not think there IS a Program. Ok. (Although there's this thing in between all the TV Programming called The Commercial) ..... Don’t wanna be judgmental here. Because that might scare the folks who prefer to believe that there is NOTHING they can do to make a difference, if they can’t do EVERYTHING it would take to REALLY make a difference.

MSM news did a segment last week on a family with two small kids that decided to go one year without buying anything “Made In China.” Which is hard because most everything these days IS "Made In China." It showed the family GOING WITHOUT certain things-- when the coffee maker broke, they had to consider buying an expensive Italian espresso maker; the husband was shown staring down at his tool bench, where all his tools were laid out, because he COULDN’T use the pegboard and hooks that was hanging there on the wall! It was a good experiment, it was good to see the story on MSM, but that’s just silly.

The story failed to point out that it is NOT ALL OR NOTHING and failed to show alternatives that make socially conscious buying power a do-able thing for all of us. Like buying USED. Hey, if somebody overseas got paid a nickel to make something you want, just make sure to cut out the profit of corporate pirates that sent your job overseas.

:patriot:


DU Frugal and Energy Efficient Living Group
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=353

Your Money Or Your Life is a best-selling book by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin
www.simpleliving.net/ymoyl/

Your Money Or Your Life - Transforming Your Relationship With Money & Achieving Financial Independence.
www.simpleliving.net/ymoyl/resource.asp?sku=bymoyl

www.newroadmap.org/

The Conscious Consumer: linking people who care to companies who care.
www.consciousconsumer.org/

The Socially Conscious Corporation. Can Companies Do Well By Doing Good?
www.uchicago.edu/news/capideas/fall99/menon.html

www.newdream.org/consumer/marketplace.php

www.globalexchange.org/

www.gxonlinestore.org/getinvolved.html

www.fairtrade.org.uk/

www.buyblue.org/

www.commondreams.org/

www.simpleliving.net/

www.maketradefair.com/

www.fairtradefederation.org/

www.fairtrade.net/

www.fairtraderesource.org/

www.simpleliving.net/awakeningearth/

www.word-works.com/simple.htm

www.life.ca/home/simplicity/

www.theworld.com/~habib/thegarden/simplicity/

[susanna]

1. Here is my problem...

...particularly with made in China stuff. Wasn't it just a scant short time ago we in America were screaming about communists? Yet now we buy everything from a communist country...

Listen - I am not an anti-communist person in general; philosophies are what they are. That said, I certainly am an anti-hypocrite type. So the idea that all these conservatives who hate the "reds," based on their politics, shop at WalMart? Well, they make me sick.

Surprisingly, they do not see the contradiction. Go figure.

on edit: missing adjective

[omega minimo]

2. They must love $$$ more than they hate Commies, eh?

Yep, there's a connection b/w the regime and the labor force at both ends isn't there?

It seemed like the dots were getting connected lately but......... you have a good point about more blind spots.

[Hidden Stillness]

19. A Few Comments; Hi, omega minimo

Starting about a year ago, or less, I have started to have real money problems the like of which I have never had before, because of all the price-gouging on gasoline, natural gas bills, insurance, ordinary groceries, car repairs, etc., etc., and so I actually have no money to spare at all anymore, and have to give things up that I used to be able to eventually get. While it was very scary for a long time, I realize that I am keeping up with bills, (barely), and that I can budget things, just so no emergency happens. This has now become ordinary to me, I don't miss things, and it actually reminds me of the '70s, when there was a kind of "self-reliance" movement then, too, centering on co-ops, learning to do things for yourself that you used to hire people for, etc. The difference is that now, with the basis for the economy ruined--here in the Midwest and elsewhere--you never get ahead even though you are ripping yourself apart; there is no relief. Still, it keeps you afloat until the hoped-for regime change.

The reference to China and Communists is interesting--you might remember some months ago, omega minimo, a thread you had that I and others replied to, on the strangeness of the Republican/archcon media no longer considering Communism as "the enemy," doing business with them, and actually never referring to them as a problem at all anymore--like it never happened. This is a very threatening thing about this group: they have no loyalty at all to this country, will drop us in a second, flip all the terms around so that bad is good and good is bad, will ally themselves with anybody, and against you and me almost instantly, and...to what end? What are they really and what are they leading us all to?

There was a comment about facing hypocrisy during reply #1: this is a harder thing to do than most people want to admit to. Notice, yet again, the atheist hate mob, getting a free ride here. When they attack, it is "we all joke about everything here"; when you try to fight back, (as I usually do not bother), you are hysterically attacked with the most neurotic lies and accusations, that are never deleted. Easy to throw stones at the Christian stereotype, but when, for example, the corporate video game industry invents a game, the goal and "reward" of which is to rape a woman, as has happened, I don't notice any of the "liberal" males fighting against the oppression of my people there. Unfortunately for all, the hypocrites are not just all neatly lined up on the other side.

When you do not have power, further, it is hard to keep up a victory, even after you have won it. Notice unions that years later have to give back benefits and salary, etc., when management screws up the operations again. Also, you may remember the feminist '70s, so influencial and successful that makeup sales plummeted, as girls and women considered themselves all right as they were. Well, the "you fucking ugly bitch" corporate backlash of the 1980s to today, has made the self-opinion of girls lower than it has ever been, I think. You can't keep fighting their oppression forever, unless you have actual power in the equation. Eventually, as they control things, they just swat you down like a fly. This is also why boycotts do not work over the long term; you can't keep it up when only they have the huge amounts of resources, and you eventually reach an end. This could be a powerful thing if only the inherent problem of the inequality of the thing could be solved.

[omega minimo]

29. so glad you're here

Your story is an example of why we don't judge, one way or the other. Everyone is in their own situation. We're all in the same boat, thanks to the Leaker-In-Chief and Co. You speak eloquently for many:

"The difference is that now, with the basis for the economy ruined--here in the Midwest and elsewhere--you never get ahead even though you are ripping yourself apart; there is no relief. Still, it keeps you afloat until the hoped-for regime change."

Speaking of "hoped-for regime change"

"This is a very threatening thing about this group: they have no loyalty at all to this country, will drop us in a second, flip all the terms around so that bad is good and good is bad, will ally themselves with anybody, and against you and me almost instantly, and...to what end? What are they really and what are they leading us all to?"

:crazy: Cognitive dissonance. Google, whose motto is (was?) "Don't Be Evil" or some such, has embraced the demands of a repressive Communist government in order to do business there.

"There was a comment about facing hypocrisy during reply #1: this is a harder thing to do than most people want to admit to. Notice, yet again, the atheist hate mob, getting a free ride here. When they attack, it is "we all joke about everything here"; when you try to fight back, (as I usually do not bother), you are hysterically attacked with the most neurotic lies and accusations, that are never deleted. Easy to throw stones at the Christian stereotype, but when, for example, the corporate video game industry invents a game, the goal and "reward" of which is to rape a woman, as has happened, I don't notice any of the "liberal" males fighting against the oppression of my people there. Unfortunately for all, the hypocrites are not just all neatly lined up on the other side."

Well said.

"Also, you may remember the feminist '70s, so influencial and successful that makeup sales plummeted, as girls and women considered themselves all right as they were. Well, the "you fucking ugly bitch" corporate backlash of the 1980s to today, has made the self-opinion of girls lower than it has ever been, I think."

Yes and I remember when the White Wedding Industrial Complex got cranked up too. After Princess Di's wedding. Reagan's Morning In America. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

"You can't keep fighting their oppression forever, unless you have actual power in the equation. Eventually, as they control things, they just swat you down like a fly. This is also why boycotts do not work over the long term; you can't keep it up when only they have the huge amounts of resources, and you eventually reach an end. This could be a powerful thing if only the inherent problem of the inequality of the thing could be solved."

IMHO this is also why our individual spending choices are important and potent. :patriot:

:hug:

[susanna]

58. Wow. Just wow. Great post. n/t

[Bridget Burke]

45. Unless the Commies are Cubans....

Of course....

[susanna]

59. Ain't that the truth.

Like I said, it's the hypocrisy around this issue that gets me the most. :-(

[omega minimo]

63. Speaking of which

A dozen years ago when NAFTA got shafted through Congress, another big headline on California papers was ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

This year, when Americans actually started connecting the dots about Made In China, outsourcing, offshoring, lost jobs, national debt (owned by China) here it comes again ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

They ship out our jobs and sell out our economy and WE ARE SUPPOSED to freak out and blame immigrants.

[susanna]

64. Oh, I agree...

I think we have been the unwitting recipients of a lot of psychological conditioning for the reasons you cite...they try to turn us on one another instead of those who are causing the problem. Classic, really. I really am surprised more people do not see through it.

[omega minimo]

65. These might help

[susanna]

66. Oh my...

Maybe the gentleman in the photograph has never heard Matthew 13/9. "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

I guess it is easier to block it all out. :-(

on edit: DU turned the scripture reference into a tongue out-smilie...whoops.

[omega minimo]

67. Oh no-- they're FILTERS not blocks!

Filter out the BS, right?

It's Hard Work! You wondered why more people don't sort it out.................

[Hidden Stillness]

68. Hypocrite, Thy Name is Hypocrite

You know, it's so interesting that you should make that comment about how DU inserted a tongue-out smilie/smiley, programmed from its own website, where you wanted to quote the Bible. This same thing happened to me some months ago when I was newer here, on a great thread called "Do You Support Animal Rights Issues?" where I gave a Bible quote (always taking your life in your hands to do around here), and it had this same picture imposed, where I had typed the chapter name. I was baffled, thought "What the fuck are they doing to me?" and left it there; I never edit my posts. I guess this is DU's way of saying, "Fuck you, Christians."

Continuing this idea of hypocrisy as a major issue, the older I get, the more I realize that this is a key to everything, if only people--others, and I--can get it. There is no single group that is oppressed, where there are not others also oppressed the same way. Racial minorities are singled out and disproportionately poor? So are women, so are old people, so are rural whites. Women are the victims of violent hate crimes? So are gays. There is no such thing as a society full of free people, plus the one "just us" group that suffers all the hardship; it is actually the opposite--there are many groups denied, sometimes similarly, sometimes differently, and there is only one very small group profiting from it all, and controlling things. There is a very beautiful Buddhist story (I am not Buddhist, by the way) called Kisa Ghotami, that describes this situation. Kisa Ghotami's child dies, and grieving, she goes to the Buddha to bring the child back to life. The Buddha does not just explain to her that it is impossible, but instead gives her a task, that will tell it. She is told to go back to her poor village, and get some mustard seed from a home where there have been no deaths, and bring it. Because this is presented as a "magic cure," she becomes hopeful and excited, and goes to do it. You can guess the rest--she goes to this home and asks, but there has been death in that family, then to that one, but there has been death there, too. Finally, she goes back to the Buddha, unable to get the mustard seed, but the Buddha tells her, compassionately, that this is the way of things. All creatures suffer all of these same things, we are all together this way, and no one will avoid any of it. The Buddha tells her to bury her child.

Equally, as everyone suffers, so everyone is guilty--the part no one wants to face. I have heard white women feminists who are prejudiced against poor black people, and who needed to be corrected, and some of the most vicious hatred against both women and gays that I have ever heard has come from black males. We are all familiar, especially lately, with how DU's hypocrisy on allowing their hysterical atheist hate mob get a free ride attacking people, has almost destroyed this website. Everyone is also familiar with the hypocrisy of "liberal" males who are as bigoted against women--and actually sound the same--as Republican neocons. The only way to get closer to a truly egalitarian perspective on things, is by a little modesty and courtesy--and some real moderators.

By the way, since this thread is about helping things, or about how we are doing things one way or another all the time anyway, another thing to mention for those who can't afford to do some things, is to notice what you can help by not doing. Now that it is the season again, I notice all these people putting fertilizer, pesticides, weed-killer, etc., on their lawns. No matter how neighbors might pressure you to get rid of dandilions, etc., I never do it and never will. This helps immeasurably, and you do not pay anything. Some things that are even free are no longer possible, though--I used to volunteer every now and then for things, but now with the gas-gouging, I can't afford to use gas. How much is this killing our whole society to lose volunteerism itself, as middle class and poor people can never do it anymore?

[omega minimo]

69. In the story, the Buddha did not merely tell her about others suffering

he provided her the experience of discovery, of meeting those people face to face, of feeling compassion for those strangers. You have hit upon a key of compassion and "hypocrisy" which applies to all the issues we address at DU-- key principles-- which are not fashionable to speak of. IMHO, many of the opinions or decisions people make politically may be based on a cynical view of "principle vs. practicality" which forfeits principle due to an expectation/assumption of WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IS GOING TO DO IN THE FUTURE which of course is impossible to know. That's how the bastards make their predictions of voter turnout in the news-- foolish folk believe in low turnouts and stay home.

I have stayed out of-- and am aware only in passing-- of the antagonism b/w non/believers on DU. If there were a safe place, I'd be interested in knowing how (without claiming I believe in God or know what God is) anyone can be absolutely certain that there IS NO GOD. :rofl: As an open-minded person, that makes no sense to me. Every little kid wonders about Universe and what's outside it.

"Equally, as everyone suffers, so everyone is guilty--the part no one wants to face. "

This is true and I hope your beautiful post survives. It is key to the whole mess, IMHO. And coincides with a weird convergence. On GD, up popped a new OP about "Your Gas Pain Is Caused By Wild Speculation" and this older one "You Pay With Your Wallet Everyday." Both by omega minimo. Both addressing "You." And I realize, and you echo at the same moment, we are all responsible for what our country has become.

I knew this, and I used to bug DU to tell me WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE HIPPIE/ACTIVIST/PROGRESSIVE/FOLKS? Well, they turned into parents and Yuppies and went into hidey holes and crawled out a spring or two ago and looked around and said "Well-- time for the next generation to DO SOMETHING!" forgetting that they PRODUCED the next generation of mall rat video game school lockdown everybody-gets-a-gold-star nobody reads corporate media addicts.

Oh dear, now I've REALLY said too much. :evilgrin: Anyway, I quit bugging them about WHY DID YOU DROP THE BALL AND LET THESE BASTARDS RECREATE THE NIGHTMARE AND UNDO ALL THE PROGRESS THAT WAS ACHEIVED THROUGOUT THE SIXTIES AND THE SEVENTIES?

And now we get to listen to all the brilliant folks on AAR talk about how it ALL GOES BACK TO NIXON/REAGAN/BUSH/CLINTONLITE/BUSHII and they've been working on this all that time!

Well DUH :wtf:

The Neo-Con Corporate Fascists MIHOP and the American people LIHOP. Nothing will ever change until we learn to quit ignoring the warning signs and start taking responsibility.

That's all. I love you HS. :hi:

[susanna]

71. Hi, Hidden Stillness...

I do not think the scripture reference changing to an emoticon was a conspiracy or anything; it was just one of those things.

I guess that I am not the sort of Christian who looks for persecution at every turn, and DU has always been very welcoming to me. There are some folks here who present rather reasoned arguments against organized religion, and I respect their right to do that. In the end, I guess that I feel that my faith is not very strong if others question it and I get upset. It takes all kinds, and I really and truly believe that.

I really locked onto your last paragraph, though - I am an avid gardener and a semi-nutty one at that. I live in an urban area with small lawns. A very nice and kind neighbor offered to "grub-out" my lawn by applying a pesticide when he did his. I asked him as kindly as possible to please not do that...I told him I have no problem with those who use pesticides, but I have chosen to use organic methods on my own property. WOW! He did not like that at all, like I was looking down on him, which was never the case...I was just telling him I would prefer to not use those chemicals. Isn't that strange? Your post made me think of that.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

50. Don't you know? Cuban Communism is bad. Chinese communsm is good.

Why?

American corporations profit due to Chinese Communism and lack of anything close to workers' rights. Cuba won't play that game.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Thank you some much for all these terrific links!!!!!!

I am bookmarking this thread!!

EDIT: I hope you don't mind, but I created an email out of your post and forwarded it to my entire email list.

[omega minimo]

5. The glass is half full of GOOGLE!!

:yourock: BL

[omega minimo]

4. NOT "Made In China"

We are attempting to locate stores and cooperatives that do not carry Made In China products. We also welcome names of products that are not made in China, ...
www.boycottmadeinchina.org/ en/boycott_hub/alternative_shopping/

Sobaka :: Boycott Made in China
www.diacritica.com/sobaka/2002/neveragain.html

A year without 'Made in China' | csmonitor.com
www.csmonitor.com/2005/1220/p09s01-coop.html

A small amount of work can sometimes easily yield you a piece of merchandise that is NOT "Made in China". I try to stay out of "Big Box" stores that cater ...
www.theturntablefactory.com/chinese.html

How to Boycott China
We told David that we would not buy products made in China until China improved its human rights record. We explained that he shared Mother Earth with ...
www.webcom.com/hrin/magazine/oct96/china.html

[kath]

6. A few months ago I bought New Balance shoes, at least partly because I'd

read that NB was one of the very few brands of shoes made in the U.S.

I was very dismayed a week or so later when I read the label inside the shoes -- "Made in China"
WTF?

[omega minimo]

8. Yep-- NB was the last one Made In USA until a few years ago.

[this_side_up]

10. current issue Fortune magazine has article about "third shift"

where New Balance contracted with Mr Chang in China to produce their shoes. All was well for a while. Then he began producing his version. Or something like that.

They went to court. Years later they asked the court for a ruling. They were told 300K. Asked a year or so later, judge says 100K. Later, 50K. And so on. They lost.
Mr Chang produced another version with his label which looks like the NB label.

anyway, the article talks about how the first and 2nd shifts in China will produce whatever the contract calls for. The 3rd shift then makes another run which is sold
blackmarket or whatever...New Balance doesn't get the money.

Yet, they continue to deal with China,saying they
still make money.

Made In America for us.

[omega minimo]

11. Sounds like

"third shaft."

Capitalists out-capitalisted by Communists?

:hi:

(great handle, btw)

[omega minimo]

21. .

[LeftyMom]

70. They still make some shoes in the US

If a local store doesn't carry them you can find them online. I get my sneakers from them since they make shoes that are animal product free (not all of 'em, but a lot) made in the US (again, you have to check the label) and really comfortable.

[prairierose]

7. I have never understood people who don't get this concept...

I have always spent my money politically or tried to spend it morally rather than being part of the unthinking consumer society.

Every penny you spend benefits some company. You can decide which companies you want to do business with. Granted, it is not always possible to avoid every company you do not want to do business with but with most things if you try you can find an alternative. Another thing to think about is a locally sustainable economy. Try to buy things that are manufactured or produced in the region in which you live.

This is a very important idea and I hope this post will generate more conversation.

[omega minimo]

9. Support local farmers, record/bookstores, independent shops...

Yeah, "the unthinking consumer society" must make it too easy to consume unthinkingly, eh?

Seems like some folks believe they make a difference and some folks pretend nothing makes a difference. :shrug:

[bloom]

44. Every year

the local newspaper prints how much the local restaurants and restaurant chains take in - the top ones.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people eat at the national chains instead of the locally owned and operated independent restaurants (of which there are many exceptional ones - and they don't cost more) - esp. because it is a liberal, university town. So there must still be a lot of people who aren't getting this concept.

[omega minimo]

54. Our local "alternative" weekly paper's annually "Best Of Town" issue

ALways has 2 out of the top 3 restaurants (voted by readers) being chain restaurants! In an area with tons of choices for independent and/or ethnic choices of all kinds......

What's weird too is how people consider fast food FOOD :evilgrin:


hi bloom :hi:

[LisaLynne]

12. Great links and great post.

I especially liked that you pointed out that we can be a "part" of the solution. The changes we make in our own lives do not have to change the entire world. They can't. But, it's contributing to changing the world. I think in our society, we're so used to hearing about the "rugged American individualist" that we have a hard time switching gears and seeing ourselves as part of a whole. But we are and we need to start thinking like that.

Every bit (or part) helps.

[omega minimo]

13. Thank you-- and what a great point

"I think in our society, we're so used to hearing about the "rugged American individualist" that we have a hard time switching gears and seeing ourselves as part of a whole. But we are and we need to start thinking like that. Every bit (or part) helps."


It's simple but not easy I guess. The nation since the Greed Is Good decade veered away from a sense of interdependence ("That's big word talk!" as * would say).

There's a sense of American individual orneryness in saying "I choose this and know it makes a difference because it DOES-- no matter who else knows about it or agrees." Jeebus-- like VOTING! I've voted "as it it mattered" since RAYGUN!!!!!!!!!! An act of faith. And now, after 2000 and 2004, who knows?

A lot of drops in the bucket and the glass gets filled up......

:hi: Thanks again LisaLynne


edit: Interdependence or Commonwealth, as Thom Hartmann talks about
www.ThomHartmann.com

[BrklynLiberal]

14. I know there are several great quotes that are appropriate but I cannot

remember any of them in their entirety.
The only thing that comes to mind is that every great journey starts with one small step.

[omega minimo]

16. !

[BrklynLiberal]

15. kick. This needs some more attention!!!

[omega minimo]

17. Yeah

[Beaverhausen]

18. I agree. "Be the change you wish to see in the world."

I buy local as much as I can. I buy less of everything these days. I think living "consciously" is important for our planet and everything living here.

[omega minimo]

20. It can be simple and a "do what you can do" thing, eh?

Seems that some folks stumble over the All or Nuthin' thing. The Dittohead cliches about Latte Liberals and Political Correctness help confuse the issue.

"Living consciously" is a great term. Awareness of the power of purchasing selectively is one aspect. :hi:

[Beaverhausen]

22. Kick - this thread needs one more vote please

:hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

23. Don't Beg LOL

Ok ok, I'll do it. This thread actually contains some good stuff. :hi:

[Joanne98]

24. I'm growing my own tomatoes and lettuce this summer........

I may even do peppers and zucchini. The store veggies taste like shit anyway.

[femmedem]

25. Yes! Yes! Yes!

For me, the struggle to live ever more in sync with my values has been enriching and life-affirming. When you begin to make decisions based on how much energy you will use, whether or not your actions will support or damage community, whether your actions will harm or help people you'll never meet, daily life becomes creative and rich.

In the last ten years, I've gone from commuting an hour each way from a high-paying job to walking to work to a low-paying job. I wear almost all second-hand clothing, although I will occassionally splurge on something from a locally-owned downtown business. I cook from scratch. I like the idea of increasingly self-reliant communities, so I was wondering, "What does my community need that no one here makes?" So now I'm moonlighting as a soapmaker!

It's a gradual journey. Each step is something to be proud of. And we're not all going to take the same steps, or dance them in the same order. So no guilt trips on you meat-eating, SUV-driving, tobacco-inhaling DU'ers!

Anyway, thanks for the post and the links. We all know this stuff, but reminders are good.

[omega minimo]

26. Cool story. We do what we can. When we realize our choices are powerful

"When you begin to make decisions based on how much energy you will use, whether or not your actions will support or damage community, whether your actions will harm or help people you'll never meet, daily life becomes creative and rich."

We can decide who and what we support with our $$$$$. It can mean richer experiences, too :hi:

""When you begin to make decisions based on... whether or not your actions will support or damage community, whether your actions will harm or help people you'll never meet..."

You hit a key point. For anyone concerned about outsourcing, offshoring, corporate monopolies, prison labor, temp slaves, exploited workers in other countries, ETC. our decisions matter! Why can't more Americans connect those dots yet?

This is fantastic:

"It's a gradual journey. Each step is something to be proud of. And we're not all going to take the same steps, or dance them in the same order. So no guilt trips on you meat-eating, SUV-driving, tobacco-inhaling DU'ers!"

Every little bit helps. There are real benefits (as you say) to making deliberate choices rather than mindless consumption or feeling BOUND to support things we really don't wanna to.

Its up to each of us to put together the package that works for us. There's no reason to use It's Gotta Be All or Nothing (as if there's some contest) as an excuse to not think about this at all.

60 Minutes did a story on Starbucks founder and how he got his start. "When you pay for that $3 coffee, you're helping pay for employee health care." That may sound good to some folks (socially conscious). But what if that $3 really isn't worth it? Why do people keep buying it? The Starbucks head was asked why the smallest size drink was called a "Tall."

"Well, cause no one wants to go into a business and ask for a SMALL." Big toothy grin. "There's a little Marketing there." :puke:

There are Starbucks across the street from each other :wtf: to "cut down on the lines."

I've found a new cafe that's privately owned and fantastic. When I want a $3 cup of coffee, that's where I go. :donut:

[Zhade]

27. KandR for a great positive post!

NT!

[omega minimo]

28. Is that the Flying Missphaghitty Monster?!

:toast: :grouphug:

[Iowa]

30. Excellent post. I'd like to add another angle to this issue...

My wife and I decided to live simply a long time ago; roughly 30 years ago. When our peers were driving mini-vans (in our day it was mini-vans - SUV wasn't even a term then) - we drove a Sentra. When they had two cars, we had one. When both of them worked full-time, we got by on my FT salary and my wife worked part-time (mostly at home). NOTE: I never earned $50,000 per year (usually much less) and my wife never earned $23,000 (usually much less) - we were never big earners. When our peers bought homes, we rented an apartment - even when we had 2 kids. When they moved into bigger homes with three bathrooms, we bought our first small home with one bathroom (we had three kids by then). When our peers took cruises, we visited attractions close to home. When they ate in restaurants 3 times a week, we cooked from scratch and ate at restaurants 3 times a year. Anyway, you get the picture.

A funny thing happened. Before too long we were spending less than we earned and we had 20 grand or so in the bank. A few years later we were free of debt, owned our house free and clear, and had thousands left over. Eventually we were spending FAR less than we were earning. When it was all said and done we ended up with enough money to cover most of our basic living expenses for the rest of our lives. We didn't set out to be rich, but by many standards we are. By deliberately choosing to be "poor" we became rich. Yet we were never truly poor - we always had everything we wanted and needed. We didn't have what others wanted, but we always had what we wanted.

The point is, those who listen to what omega minimo is saying will probably contribute to the solution - by not mowing through mass quantities of finite resources - by limiting how much we choose to feed the beast that is consuming us - by limiting the amount of poison we pour onto the earth... and a great many other very good and decent things. But in the process of consciously choosing to be part of the solution, you may very well end up becoming financially free. It's a win-win.

To all of you younger DUers: The mind is a very powerful thing. If you can harness its power, you can free yourself from the grip of society's pressure to be and do what society values. It's a lifestyle choice and it will take some planning and thinking, but ultimately it's a conscious, deliberate MINDSET. Although there are always exceptions, as a general rule, if you feel that you must own a cell phone, you probably don't have the mindset I'm describing. If you're in college and you feel that you must have a car, you probably don't have it. Know that you can deliberately choose to get off the merry-go-round in many ways - both small and big - and they all add up. Start with small things and gradually ramp it up. It all matters, and it may very well change your life in ways you've never dreamed of. Looking back on it after all these years, it was the second most important decision I ever made (marrying my wife was #1). It's one of those very rare things in life that has almost no downside.

[omega minimo]

35. What a great success story... is the spirit of "Your Money or Your Life?"

"We didn't set out to be rich, but by many standards we are. By deliberately choosing to be "poor" we became rich. Yet we were never truly poor - we always had everything we wanted and needed. We didn't have what others wanted, but we always had what we wanted."

Brilliant. You've emphasized the power that comes from deciding to live your life and not the life of the herd.

"But in the process of consciously choosing to be part of the solution, you may very well end up becoming financially free. It's a win-win."

Tom Frank, who wrote "What's The Matter With Kansas," "Commodify Your Dissent" and others... and edited The Baffler, coined the term "Radical Soda Pop." The youth you address below grew up in the commodified and hyper-demographed bubble that makes the cognitive dissonance maybe easier-- maybe harder-- to suss out.

"To all of you younger DUers: The mind is a very powerful thing. If you can harness its power, you can free yourself from the grip of society's pressure to be and do what society values. It's a lifestyle choice and it will take some planning and thinking, but ultimately it's a conscious, deliberate MINDSET."

A whole field full of that "conscious, deliberate MINDSET" would be something to see. :applause:

[Iowa]

31. Oh, and one more thing... K&R for omega minimo's post

[Kerrytravelers]

32. Mr. kt and I are working very hard to live more sustainable, with

products that are local and organic. We also do our best to buy from stores that promote fair trade and also donate political money to causes and politicians we agree with. It's tough and we're not 100% there yet... but we're on our way!

kt

[omega minimo]

36. Sounds good KT

Good products, good people, good relationships :thumbsup:

[kineneb]

33. I buy recycled: charity thrift shops

I have found amazing things for really good prices. I needed buttons for a project and instead of darkening MallWart's doors (no one else in the county carries sewing stuff), I found what I needed for $.04/ea. at the Hospice Thrift Store. And it goes to a good cause. If I need new, I check online.

[omega minimo]

37. Treasures

MallWart! :rofl:

Amazing things, good prices, good cause................ :thumbsup:

[Lifelong Protester]

34. WE can all make small changes

that DO add up to big changes. I have hung around here long enough to know that some folks get all tweaked out if someone suggests that we should all try to live in a CERTAIN way, and I think we should all agree that we are not going to live the PERFECT life, whatever that means, so as to not mess up the world. So my fear is that some folks will be paralyzed into not making any changes in how they shop, live, eat, drive, whatever, for fear that only a narrow definition of living consciously will fit the bill.

Gang, we all need to make some conscious decisions and make some thought out and purposeful choices, even if it is ONLY ONE THING.

Can you get by without shopping at a box retailer? Great, do that!
Can you drive a smaller more fuel efficient car? Great, do that!
Can you recycle where you live? Ok, there's your contribution.
Can you buy one less junky crappy plastic toy your kid won't play with for more than an hour? Do THAT thing.
Can you walk to work one day?
Eat no meat one day a week?
Buy local?
Grow a vegetable garden?
Read the news online instead of getting a paper?
Can you buy used, second hand, eBay, whatever?
Can you turn your AC up or your heat down by just a FEW degrees?
Can you turn lights of in a room when you are not going to be in it?
Can you think twice before making spur of the moment purchases that just add up to your personal 'junk pile'?

Don't try to do it all.

Just do SOMETHING. It does all make a difference.

[Kerrytravelers]

39. Excellent suggestions Lifelong Protester.

Can you get by without shopping at a box retailer? Great, do that!
If you live in a larger city or in the suburbs, there are more options--- but you have to look for them.

Can you drive a smaller more fuel efficient car? Great, do that!
You might have to wait a few years to buy a new car, but you can sure encourage as many people as possible to buy a fuel efficient vehicle... and write LTTE and to the companies who are releasing these vehicles and show your support, even if you can not own one at the moment.

Can you recycle where you live? Ok, there's your contribution.
Again, you might have to do a search. If you can't find something, perhaps you can find others who are interested and either take turns taking your recycling to another town or work together to bring recycling to your town. It won't be an instant solution, but it will be worth it.

Can you buy one less junky crappy plastic toy your kid won't play with for more than an hour? Do THAT thing.
This is just a good idea anyway. We, all of us, have become a very throw-away, materialistic society. We all have so many htings... but do we really need all these things? There are at least four shows on tv that revolve around professional organizers helping people declutter their lives. I did a bit of reading and it seems that the number of professional organizers registered in the United States is also increasing at a fast rate (I apologize for not remembering the source of this reading.) I've been interested in perhaps making a side business of helping people declutter, so that is what led me to reading about this.

Can you walk to work one day?
This might be hard... but if you can't, can you carpool? Perhaps other eco-concerned people would be interested? If you work varying hours, perhaps it's just a carpool once or twice a week, but it's worth a shot.

Eat no meat one day a week?
Protein can be found in many food sources.

Buy local?
This might take research, but you'd be amazed at what gems you can find!

Grow a vegetable garden?
Even if you don't have a backyard, there are planter boxes in sizes that might allow for small gardens. You may not be able to grow a lot, but a few favorites might be possible.

Read the news online instead of getting a paper?
And if you do get papers and magazines... recycle!

Can you buy used, second hand, eBay, whatever?
Most towns and counties have thrift, consignment and charity stores. If it's a distance, carpool with others and make a day of getting all your eco-friendly shopping done (this may also encourage those who are carpooling with you to do likewise!)

Can you turn your AC up or your heat down by just a FEW degrees?
In CA, they suggest keeping the temperature between 73-73 degrees, depending upon where you live. Check to see what is recommended in your area.When we get a bit chilly, we throw on a sweater. It's no big deal, unless there is a medical reason for particular temperature setting in your home.

Can you turn lights of in a room when you are not going to be in it?
Did your parents holler "Turn the lights off"?!?! I know mine did!

Can you think twice before making spur of the moment purchases that just add up to your personal 'junk pile'?
The same concept as not buying a ton of toys junior will only play with for an hour. We have personally stopped all impulse buying. it's tough, but it has simplified our lives so much. We went completely cold turkey. And with the cash savings, we're paying off more in our school loans, putting money away in savings and not having to declutter our home as often.




A few weeks ago, we went to an Earth Day Fair. They were passing out this "Green Guide" and it has been so helpful to us. See if you can find one in your area... or do what these people did and get a group of people together of like-mind, do the research and pull together a "Green Guide" of your own.






Now, as you can see from the front cover of the book, we live in the Los Angeles area. So, yes, we probably have way more options than people who live in smaller, less populated areas. I don't know what it's like to live in a smaller place where many of your neighbors don't share your same environmental concerns (the bushbots don't seem to take the environment too seriously... :eyes: )

Best of luck to everyone!

kt

[Beaverhausen]

47. Did you get that guide at Worldfest?

I worked at a booth there and they were giving these out at the booth right next to it but I forgot to pick one up from them! Darn!

[Kerrytravelers]

48. We got it at Santa Monica on the Third Street Promonade.

You can call the company and get one for $10. We got it for free because we took one of their in-house surveys (they're a new start-up company and are looking for general interestes.)

www.greenopia.org

[omega minimo]

38. Sorry DU, thread didn't have "Rape" "Abortion" or "WalMart" in the title

"Consciousness" ain't sexy, huh?
"Social Responsibility"?
"Simplicity"?
"Fair"?
"Common"?
"Alternative"?
"Community"?
:yoiks: :hi:

[Hidden Stillness]

55. How About "Let's Get Drunk and Give Cheney an Abortion NOW!!!!"

...Or something. It could be a post-birth abortion of Cheney. Threads like that always end up with 50+ votes.

Regardless, there are even further ways of helping our society generally, far beyond spending money, that involve elevating your own behavior, doing small things for good wherever you can, being a peaceful influence, and just a more civic/social-minded person. Even people who don't have enough money to donate anywhere, or who can't retro-fit their whole house to run on solar energy, can make valuable contributions just by acting a new way, that this society needs. I had a really wonderful Aunt who used to pick up litter where she found it, if it was convenient; just go to the effort to pick up paper blowing around outside, or a discarded bottle or can. She never lectured anybody on anything, and actually never really said anything about it, just picked these things up as if it were an ordinary, normal thing, and it make a huge impression on me--not only how great and classy she was, but that I have also been doing the same thing my whole life, like it was nothing. I even remember, as a teenager during the '70s, when kids were a lot more socially conscious and informed (it seems to me), when you would have been considered a kind of an asshole if, for example, you had dropped litter on the ground, or something. Your friends would have actually looked at you like, "What the fuck did you just do that for?" Many of these great attitudes have been lost; me, me, me.

I agree with the opinion of Lifelong Protester, reply #34, on how we can all do something to help, on some level, and that all of these efforts will lead to a huge change. Everybody's contribution, on whatever level, will improve the whole. The mention of the air conditioner reminds me--when I started to have money problems and could no longer afford to run the air conditioner, it was hard for a while, and then eventually, you start to re-adjust to the real, actual environment and the real feel of the weather and the change of the seasons. I now prefer the real feel of the outside world, and can't stand that phony, too-cold air conditioned air.

Another unrelated point: never buy an animal from a pet shop. They are abused, not socialized, live horrific lives cramped in very small cages their whole lives, do not get medical care, exercise or anything else. If there is one kind of abuser I never want to see profit, it is this. Buy food there, toys, etc., but not animals. It is a horrific life. Go to a good shelter or Humane Society, etc. That is where my two beloved dogs are from, and although it may take a while to overcome fears, etc., from their previous abuse or neglect, they become some of the most wonderful dogs--as if they too, are aware that you saved their lives.

When you think about it, this all becomes a total way of life, a more conscious and conscientious life. By the way, omega minimo, I live in Michigan; what State do you live in?

[omega minimo]

56. Abort Dick's Drug-Addicted Vestigal Head!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

"Regardless, there are even further ways of helping our society generally, far beyond spending money, that involve elevating your own behavior, doing small things for good wherever you can, being a peaceful influence, and just a more civic/social-minded person. Even people who don't have enough money to donate anywhere, or who can't retro-fit their whole house to run on solar energy, can make valuable contributions just by acting a new way, that this society needs."

Beautiful. So true. Opportunites for that everyday. Bless your aunt. It's striking too how you describe the example she provided you by her behavior.

Also, folks can allow themselves (if they live in an area to have options and choices of where and how to shop) the luxury of NOT going to a business that makes them miserable and giving them money! (btw, I'm in California) Look at how dehumanizing a lot of "normal" consumer experiences are. People hate it but feel forced to do it? By who?

"I agree with the opinion of Lifelong Protester, reply #34, on how we can all do something to help, on some level, and that all of these efforts will lead to a huge change. Everybody's contribution, on whatever level, will improve the whole."

This pResident tells the people "We're at War." Pundits have pointed out that no real sacrifice is being asked of Americans (aside from being constantly scared shitless by the WH and media lackeys). In WWll there was rationing, Victory Gardens, drives for scarce materials, etc....... Made it personal and made it real. How are people being asked to contribute now? Bush comes out amidst this obscene gas gouging and says we have to INCREASE consumption? :crazy:

The idea of combined contributions improving the whole used to be what our nation was.

"When you think about it, this all becomes a total way of life, a more conscious and conscientious life."

[wtmusic]

40. kick nt

[bloom]

41. Very well said.

It's so simple, really.


P.S. The really simple thing is just to stop buying stuff. Then you don't have to worry about who did or didn't make it.

[gollygee]

42. I agree

isn't that an Abby Hoffman quote? "Your dollar is your vote." Something like that.

I don't shop at Wal-Mart, and I try to follow the "voluntary simplicity" way of life as much as I can. I'm not perfect by a long shot but I do what I can.

[glitch]

43. Wanted to R, could only K. nt

[bloom]

46. kick

[omega minimo]

49. DU WE NEED A SUSTAINABILITY FORUM OR GROUP?

:hi:

[Kerrytravelers]

51. If you want top suggest it, I'll toss my star in. PM me w/ link to thread.

[omega minimo]

53. Very good. We'll float it and get some ideas going

:thumbsup:

[silvershadow]

52. here are a couple of things I dug up recently (maybe from DU?)

The MDI air car, the world's cleanest car

http://www.theaircar.com/

and this about a new generation of solar panels

http://www.int.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=143&art_id=vn20060211110132138C184427

[politicat]

57. Thank you for all the links!!!

We're trying to do that - we have a running tally on the fridge, and every day we go without buying something that's MIC is a tick on the win side. We've got 14 ticks on the China side, things for which we could not find a substitute.

Target has helped a lot - the Michael Graves cleaning implements are made in Italy, Germany and Turkey and are not much more expensive than the Chinese stuff. (There are very few sponges made in the US. None, actually. And toilet brushes, too.) But anything made of fabric is HARD. Needles, pins, tape measures, seam rippers, thread.... All MIC. When the choice came down to buying Chinese sewing machine needles or Chinese slipcovers (so I don't have to replace furniture - slip covers keep kitties from scratching), I went with the needles - smaller, cheaper and less fuel getting them here. Buttons? Don't even try.

Toys... *sigh* Books are okay, and legos. I'm glad I don't have kids. And I'm really glad that cats think the greatest toys are a) their people, b) paper bags, c) boxes, and d) champagne corks from New Year's Eve.

Shoes have been rotten. We ended up spending just under $300 for 5 pairs of shoes and those will hopefully get us through the next two years. (Dansko, Dr. Marten, Sofft, Softspot and Propet, made in Norway, England, New Hampshire, North Carolina, and France, respectively.) Since we hadn't bought shoes in a couple of years, I guess it all works out in the end, but I would have preferred to have bought closer to home. (Unfortunately, neither of us can wear Crocs, which are made locally.)

We ended up buying plain ready to dye shirts from dharma trading and dying them ourselves. I found replacement pants at Costco, but I am going to have to make pants for my partner - he's a hard size to fit. I wish clothes didn't wear out, but I can only mend his cuffs so many times before the rest of the pants are dying, and his shirts need to look professional. I can get away with a lot more than he can.

It's only the end of April, and I'm ready to end this experiment.

[omega minimo]

60. That's good news about the Michael Graves products

Guess I shouldn't assume that all that plastic stuff is MIC. And the shoes-- I'll look for the brands you recommend. Thanks!

What do you think of buying thngs MIC second hand as an (justified) alternative? Also, another post mentioned finding cool buttons second hand....

Sounds like your family is in touch with making things-- those who know what goes into making something may be more inclined to factor the labor issue into the value.

:hi:

[politicat]

61. I don't consider second hand to be buying from China.

Second-hand is second-hand. Because I'm pulling something out of the waste stream, the location of origin is not a problem. We do a LOT of second-hand, especially furniture, because I am a real cheap-skate. :P

But shoes and certain fabric items have to be new or handmade, because we have all sorts of foot, ankle, knee, hip and back problems, and because kitties can be very territorial about fabric items. (weird little creatures.)

My mom taught me to sew when I was a teenager - I had two younger sisters in Rainbow, so she needed every hand available to make formals! I'm good at it - it's 3-dimensional geometry and I have a good spatial eye - and I can usually get fabric from a mill in North Carolina mail-order. It's US and union made, and a very good price. I have to use paypal to pay, and go through ebay (something I don't like doing) and buy 10-20 yards at a time, but it's better than not, and black twill is really useful stuff.

The only things I hate are zippers and buttonholes, and I've got a zipper foot and a button holer, so that makes it a lot easier.

Being freelance makes it all possible. If I had to go to the office every day and be a normal person, there's no way I could be as thrifty and conscientious as I am. (But since I'm loony as a box of hamsters, and overeducated, I can't get hired anywhere.)

edited because I can't spell.

[omega minimo]

62. ^^^^^^^^^^^

:evilgrin: :thumbsup: