Democrats should sit out the immigration issue

[bluestateguy]

Republicans are tearing themselves apart over it. Bush is in league with all of the corporate conservatives who like the cheap labor (many of them probably have an undocumented maid or nanny working in their own home). On the other hand, the redneck wing of the party, which tends to be more working class, wants all them "ferners" rounded up and deported. This is a gift for Democrats because Bush and the GOP are boxed into a no-win situation. Two elements of the Republican base are divided on the issue. As the out of power opposition party, Democrats can't do much to influence the terms of debate anyway.

Advice to Democrats, just stay out of it and let the GOP cannibalize itself on the issue.

[mconvente]

1. you think that will work?

Will hispanics move to the Democrats even if we offer no good plan for them (announced plan that is) while the repubs try to criminalize them? I think that would be taking their vote for granted. Dems may be not all in line with this, but we have way more coherency than repukes.

[justice1]

14. You are right on the money.

Everyone questions why Nebraska is "red", the Democrats at the national level, offer the voters nothing.

This issue is ours, if we come up with the "right" solution.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. I disagree

You are dead on about the republicans. But this is a human rights issue and the Dems can capitalize on that.

I just went to a fundraiser tonight for the Dem running for state rep in my area and this topic came up. Undocumented workers have flooded into Kansas. We want our candidate to run with this issue and capitalize on the xenophobic crap coming from the right. It's a win win. Kansans are decent people. They will see the human rights aspect to this and vote accordingly. I suspect most Americans have hearts as well.

[wickerwoman]

4. It's also a union issue- bread and butter for the dems.

We just need to focus on 1.) large employers need to be fined like hell for hiring illegals, 2.) universal health care which would take the burden off the employers and make up for any slight increase in prices due to paying *everyone* at least minimum wage.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Yeah where are the unions on this?

[Skidmore]

10. This is exactly where Dems should be fighting.

Illegal immigration must be dealt with as the assault to labor rights that it is. If labor rights are protected and fair labor practices are demanded as part of trade agreements with other nations, then the human rights issue will be taken care of. However, arguing that it is okay to break the law because someone has a harder life in their own nation is not the way to argue this. We have people in this nation who are having a tough time because some jobs are no longer available to the American citizen by virture of the fact that employers will only seek out illegal immigrants rather than pay a fair wage.

[unschooler]

3. I'm not sure it's possible to avoid this one, although I agree with the

general strategy of keeping one's mouth shut when one's enemy is making an idiot of himself.

[sandnsea]

6. Labor rights issue

If we get it right, we can own it. It's a labor rights issue, living wages for all workers so there's no benefit to hiring undocumented workers. If all workers have documented rights, then it won't be so easy to exploit them. Plus complete Homeland Security, including borders (but no fence) and ports.

We can't ignore it, it's too big to ignore. But we can turn it against both the racist wing and the cheap labor wing, all in one shot.

[curt_b]

8. Hello sandsea

I've been following your posts on this issue and have to say I admire your clarity and perseverance. Just thought you would like to see our event last sunday here in conservative Cincinnati.

http://www.ijpc-cincinnati.org (scroll toward the bottom of the page and click on slide show under "Sí, Se Puede!")

The SEIU, Change to Win, UFCW, FLOC and other Union groups were highly visible.

Thanks for fighting the good fight on these boards,
curt

[sandnsea]

15. Make Work Pay

Who's slogan is that?? It's perfect. I couldn't read the bottom of that banner. I'm not in a union, but my son is, the grocery store one. He's not getting info on this issue to understand why it's every worker's issue. Make Work Pay. He'd get that in a minute. Really nice rally, it's been so impressive to see so many out there.

[curt_b]

16. make work pay

It's a new campaign by Change to Win. The folks holding the banner are our friends from the UFCW.
Here's a link: http://www.makeworkpay.org

[sandnsea]

21. Thank you so much

I hadn't seen that. It's absolutely perfect. I bookmarked it so I can refer to it and post it, over and over and over. lol. I think my son's union is UFCW. I'll have to check his next paper to see what it's got on this.

[Selatius]

7. Democrats could possibly win if they push the security issue

There can be no common sense immigration policy if the border is not secure at all. Any effort at immigration reform is doomed to fail if the borders cannot be controlled.

[bklyncowgirl]

9. 1. security 2. labor rights for all workers. 3. Citizenship track.

Securing the borders is a no brainer. Bush has failed misrebly here. IT'S OUR SAFETY, STUPID.

Labor rights: Punish employers--not individual workers: It's illegal to hire undocumented workers. If you could hire hard working people for half of what Americans expect for the same job and on top of it these people were scared to death that the least mistake and they're back where they came from wouldn't you do it. Especially if you knew that you were not going to be punished for flouting the rules?

Citizenship Track: No "Guest Worker" Program: What are we, Dubai? Once we slow the tide of illegal workers we need to deal with the people who are already here. If someone's been contributing to society and playing by the rules they should have some way of legalizing their status and eventually if they want, apply for citizenship. Otherwise we end up with a two tier society one group who has rights, but are undermined by another groups who can be exploited without penalty.

This is not good for America.

[mmonk]

11. I agree that democrats quit being led to issues

and introduce truth to the debates on America's future. As long as we play the republican party's games and its directed media's games, we WILL LOSE. Immigration can be resolved once power is taken. The immigration issue is a republican wedge issue right now aimed at redirecting attention and to play on American fear and latent racism. They aren't really trying to find a real solution right now.

[Skidmore]

12. Yup and yup and yup....

[Joe Fields]

13. Immigration sidetracks the more important issues before us......

as we head into the mid-terms. Democrats should just ignore it for the time being.

[jsamuel]

17. Democrats better never keep their mouths shut about an issue again...

a few days or weeks, maybe, to make sure they know what is the right choice, but they have to make their decision, then PROMOTE IT...

[Cleita]

18. I don't know. My Congressional candidate has kind of a good

solution that could appeal to all sides. However, she doesn't want it to be her main campaign platform, which is about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and potential war with Iran.

[jsamuel]

19. exactly, Dems need to figure it out, then promote their ideas, not keep

their mouths shut

Keeping your mouth shut lets the public only hear the bumper stickers and Republican talking points.

[oc2002]

20. I got news for you, the Republicans do not care, they just want to

..see if they can spin it as a Democrats are to blame issue.

[mdmc]

22. we should look to the future and support open immigration of

people that want to make their lives better.

The GOP is going to be known as the party that tried to CRIMINALIZE the American dream (HR 4437). The Dems should be the party that supports legal immigration and that makes citizenship legally available to humans that desire it.

[Quantess]

23. Not all Democrats agree with that, though.

No offense intended, but your take on the illegal immigration issue is not all that popular among average voters. The Democratic party is not in consensus on illegal immigration by any stretch.

[mdmc]

25. I hear that. Most dems don't want to end the drug war, or the death

penalty.
Most Dems want us to remain in Iraq until "a pro-western democracy" is stable and strong in Iraq.

I am requesting leadership. Progressive, liberal leadership.

I would never support a Dem that agreed with HR4437. NEVER. I could care less about how popular the stance is / was. It is immoral.

Sometimes leadership requires making unpopular decisions.

I say, do what is right. Do what Jesus would do. And let the political chips fall where they might.

Obviously, I am tired of republican-lite leadership. We should do what is right, not what is popular.

[Cleita]

27. Actually, the demography that it does appeal to is

not the average Democratic voter but a much smaller one. No one is in consensus about illegal immigration, so I don't know why there is always one post in every one of these type of threads that says so. We want to make a larger quota of immigrants legal so that they don't have to be afraid to demand equal wages, join unions and lobby for better working condition alongside their American co-workers.

No one wants illegal immigration, so stop saying that.

[Quantess]

28. I don't recall ever saying that.

"No one wants illegal immigration, so stop saying that."
Did I say that?

However, making a larger quota of immigrants legal, larger than already is, may not be as popular with average voters as you would like it to be.

[Cleita]

31. Your words:

The Democratic party is not in consensus on illegal immigration by any stretch.

They imply that some in the Democratic party are in favor of illegal immigration. Nothing could be further from the truth. Yet this seems to come up regularly in these discussions.

Actually, I know which segment of the population increasing the quotas isn't popular with and believe me they aren't the majority of Democrats.

[ComerPerro]

24. They should publicly state that they refuse to comment

until the Republicans (who are the majority party) not only offer a plan but show how they intend to pay for it and carry it out...

[mdmc]

26. that is a good idea

plus they could pepper their responses with insights (such as all Americans are pretty much immigrants)...

[ComerPerro]

29. honestly, that's why I don't even discuss immigration with people

The Republians are ultimately gonna have to be the ones coming up with a plan, since anything we come up with is irrelevant since it can be voted down.

And, all this talk about more security on the border, enforcing current policies, and building a wall on the border is all irrelevant until they show me how they intend to pay for it.

[mdmc]

30. they could use the money that is wasted in iraq

oh wait, the $ has already been wasted.