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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 10:48 AM
Original message
"Our party," he said, "is too beholden to Democratic consultants."
The "he" in "he said" is Senator Feingold.

quotes interview of Russ Feingold:

Once he'd felt the Dems had again lost their resolve to fight, and once the information concerning the warrantless NSA spying had come to light, he'd decided the right thing to do was to simply take action. And he did."Yes," I followed up, "and don't get me wrong, I strongly support your effort there, but might you have gotten more support from your Democratic colleagues had you consulted with them first before announcing the Resolution publicly?"

He explained that had he done that, the matter would have then been vetted by "Democratic consultants" who would have decided to kill the idea entirely before it could even be proposed on the floor. "Our party," he said, "is too beholden to Democratic consultants."


And, then offers the following:

As for Feingold's explanation, it is easy to see exactly what he is describing. Democratic consultants attacked and tried to kill his resolution even after it was announced and had been widely publicized. Is there any doubt at all that had he consulted in advance with Democrats, all that he would have confronted would be efforts to dissuade him from doing anything?

As Crashing the Gate chronicles, and as Feingold implied, the Democratic Party has all but turned itself over to highly risk-adverse, overly calculating political consultants who have drained the party of ideals, passion, energy and life. Almost all of them inspire nobody, because they so transparently lack any governing principles or passion about anything. They embrace only those ideas which are guaranteed in advance to be popular, and they run from ideas they believe in and that are right whenever they are told -- by the bookish, soul-less consultants who dominate them -- that those ideas are risky or unpopular. And everyone sees this and knows this.


In summary, states what many have written, countless times here at DU:

But what is critically important is that Democrats stand for something. It almost matters less what that "something" is than that they demonstrate they are capable of taking a stand even in the face of whiny, fearful warnings from their consultants. The Censure Resolution is still pending. The administration's blatant lawlessness -- exacerbated greatly by their recently intensified efforts to quash dissent, intimidate investigative journalists, and prevent disclosure of their wrongdoing -- is a serious threat to our country, and it is very difficult to see what possible justification exists for having Democrats continue to stand by, quiet and invisible, while all of this unfolds. More than anything else, that's what Democrats have become -- quiet and invisible.


Well, I think we all know some Democrats who are anything but "quiet and invisible" - Conyers, Murtha, Feingold, Gore, Kerry, Lee, Waters, .... - to name a few.

What we need to continue doing is encouraging them to be passionate about protecting our Constitution and our planet from the gravest, most lawless threat ever encountered - the Bush Neoconster Imperialist Regime.


Never Forget: George W. Bush willfully violated National Security to cover-up his willful launch of a war of aggression and illegal occupation of Iraq.


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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. so true, stick to your democratic principles!
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's not enough to let Republicans hang themselves
if they're taking your constituents with them.

:kick:
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. WE all know their names.
But I can bet you the majority of americnas couldn't tell you who any of those names are except Gore, Kerry, and now maybe Feingold. Im not saying this because of their politics. Im saying it cuz americans dont pay attention.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Even at DU many are not up on what is actually said and done if it doesn't
have the amount of red meat they're looking for.

Sound policies and plans don't mean a thing if you haven't thrown in a few hot words.
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BooScout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. That's exactly what we need....
More passion, more energy and most importantly some more ASS KICKING!
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. Feingold is very impressive
Every Democrat should look to Feingold for leadership. Feingold always seems to be ahead of the curve on important issues from Campaign Finance, Lobbying, Patriot Act, and Equal right for Gays and Lesbians. He isn't afraid to stand up for what he believes in and fight for it either and then he is able to explain his stance in a simple midwestern way.

www.russforpresident.com
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. He is exceptional
I tell you, I like what he stands for.. Freedom for everyone... He is a constitutional lawyer..
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. I don't believe that Russ couldn't count on anyone in the senate
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 11:06 AM by blm
to discuss his idea for a censure resolution. Kennedy and Leahy were already hounding Bush for NSA documents - Boxer is always open to controversial moves - and Alito filibuster had just happened a month earlier - how could he slap at the entire senate by saying he COULDN'T discuss it with anyone as if they made it impossible to do?

I really like Russ for many of his stands, but why swipe at other senators when it isn't NECESSARY to do so? Does Russ think the corporate media goes too easy on them?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Russ isn't swiping at KBL in the OP - he is lashing out at consultants...
KBK = Kennedy, Boxer, Leahy

:shrug:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Yes, but he also says that he COULDN't discuss censure with anyone - what
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 11:27 AM by blm
is that saying?

After Alito - when consultants were saying save your powder, Kerry and Kennedy said it was an outrage not to filibuster and they did - Feingold knew that, as he turned them down when they asked him to lead it out of judiciary hearings. But he knew they were bucking consultants on that and many senators ended up joining them in support, including Russ.

So, why would things have changed in the month between Alito filibuster and censure idea?

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Not the Senators, the consultants
who are making the decisions in the background....
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Consultants do what their bosses tell them to do.
It was really a swipe at the Senators without directly naming other Senators. Russ is giving them an excuse and someone to blame for their lack of courage. He's being diplomatic.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. He is that way
I was sadly disappointed by the lack of support.. My son serves in this war and I have a personal interest in seeing it's end..
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Alito filibuster already showed senators bucking the consultants.
What happened that made Feingold say that NO senator would be open to discussing censure with him? Because that is the bottom line of what he's saying here.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. He perhaps could mean public discussion, not private discussion
I doubt few senators would willingly bandy about rhetoric of censure before Feingold springs the resolution because it would be using the same tools the Republicans used in the previous decade for Clinton's indiscretions.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Then why were they upset that he didn't speak to any of them first?
It left him open to the charge that he was grandstanding. I don't for a second believe he was grandstanding - but no way do I believe he couldn't talk to any other senator because they would have given him a hard time for it because of consultants.

You may think it rings true, but, I don't. Kerry, Kennedy, and Boxer have built their entire careers on taking unpopular stands that no consultant would approve of - how did that fact slip by Russ so soon after the Alito filibuster?
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Here is what the one blogger wrote
Initially, it should be noted that I have been waiting for some time to hear Feingold explain: (a) whether he did provide any advance warning to other Senators before announcing his Censure Resolution and (b) if not, as seemed to be the case, what the reasons were for not doing so. This is the first time I have seen anyone ask him this. That the truly probing questions are being asked by bloggers rather than by national journalists is becoming increasingly commonplace.

As for Feingold's explanation, it is easy to see exatly what he is describing. Democratic consultants attacked and tried to kill his resolution even after it was announced and had been widely publicized. Is there any doubt at all that had he consulted in advance with Democrats, all that he would have confronted would be efforts to dissuade him from doing anything?


http://%20glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/04/need-for-political-soul.html
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. That's nice rhetoric but the FACTS don't add up. Kerry and Kennedy got
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:11 PM by blm
shit when they were asking for a filibuster and AFTER they started the filibuster. Feingold can't say that he couldn't tell anybody because SOME would have given him shit for it - so what if they did? There still would have been others that would say Let's do it and see what we can get for the effort. They would know that the political angle of censure was still good to have out there.

Kerry and Kennedy took all the cheap shots that were directed at them. Feingold knew the same would happen to him. But it would have been worse for Kerryt and Kennedy had they kept quiet and SPRUNG filibuster without discussion of it with their fellow senators. Why would Russ exempt himself from the simple measure of talking to a few other senators about his plan so he could go INTO the battle with support?

Feingold's statement slaps at all the senators. By saying he COULDN'T discuss it with ANYone, it paints them all as lawmakers who won't hold their own counsel.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. You are entitled to your opinion
albeit biased and one sided. You are entitled... But I think you are wrong.... Very wrong.....
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Use a fact to show me I am VERY wrong.
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:15 PM by blm
Did Alito filibuster not just happen a month earlier? YES IT DID.

Did all the senators listen to the consultants who wanted them to avoid a filibuster? NO THEY DID NOT!

Show me one fact that proves Feingold COULDN'T mention his censure idea with even ONE OTHER SENATOR because of consultants.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. I really don't like to feed the monkeys
Let's just say you can't compare one to the other.. The are two separate issues altogether.. A censure is unprecedented, but needed... Feingold or any Senator has the right to introduce anything they want without a single soul knowing about it... Considering the action taken, it is a whole different ballgame....

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Asking for one fact to back your claim makes me a monkey?
Interesting way to make your case - avoid using a fact and equate the poster who asked the simple question with a monkey.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. I am not calling you a monkey...
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:39 PM by dogday
It is a phrase that is used when you know you shouldn't feed them cause they keep wanting you to feed them more.. I feel like you live to post these miserable posts... Yesterday you compared me to a Republican and I never said a mean word about Kerry... Your posts are demanding, deameaning and insisting, and mean... Sorry that you are like that, it does not make for good posting.....


Feingold made a decision, it is obvious you don't like it.. It's done, get over it....

on edit: This statement


Whether supported or passed or not, Feingold said, it's important for the history books. When people look back to see what happened here, and wonder if anybody stood up for our Constitution in the face of unprecedented disregard for it, via the illegal practice of spying without a warrant on American citizens on U.S. soil, it'll be right there that at least he and about five others in the Senate had the courage to stand up and say, "No, this is wrong."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. When people make claims that hurt my party I will ask for an accounting.
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:43 PM by blm
That's what a Democratic forum should do when its mission and its intentions are to bolster and strengthen the party. I believe that INACCURATE information allowed to spread only hurts the party in the long run.

If you think spreading claims that have no real proof behind them and plenty of proof countering them is OK, that is a choice you make that hurts the party whether you wanted to or not.

If that direct confrontation when bad information is being spread makes me sound mean to you, well....too bad, I guess.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Why don't you contact Senator Feingold and
tell him yourself... But this constant posting of the same thing over and over and over is beyond trying to get your point across....
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. All it would take is the presentation of one fact to prove the claim that
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 12:56 PM by blm
is being made against all other senators and spread here at DU and other forums.

You could have done that a few posts ago if you had proof. You chose the discussion by not providing proof.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. What Proof, there is nothing to prove here
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 01:07 PM by dogday
I will say Kerry and Kennedy did not start the call for the filibuster until the people started calling them if you will remember... We all got on our phones and called them to do something... We wondered, are they going to filibuster or not.... They were late, but better late than never....

What proof is it that you want here??? Proof that not one Senator would of gotten behind Feingold, that either the Senators or the Consultants would not of talked him out of doing this resolution??? What proof does thou seek????
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Kennedy was always for filibuster and he should have had a JUDICIARY Dem
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 01:21 PM by blm
leading it with him. Kerry always said he would do it if no one elese would and said so in 2003, but he was scheduled for his OWN Finance committee's duties in Europe during that time. When NO one else would stand with Kennedy to do it, Kerry stuck to his word. It had nothing to do with people calling - as we were calling judiciary Dems at that time expecting they would lead on it. You are implying that Kerry and Kennedy acted ONLY because of phonecalls. There is no reason to believe that yet you chose to make that statement because many on the internet have spread that same claim.

Feingold made a claim about every other senator - I provided proof that his claim doesn't hold up based on the atmosphere in the Senate belied by the Alito filibuster and the fact that Boxer, Harkin, Leahy and Kerry all do support censure publically also adds to that proof. Feingold COULD have trusted other senators, but he CHOSE not to for his own reasons. To claim senators wouldn't back him because of their beholden nature to consultants was NOT a reason that holds up under scrutiny.

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Perhaps not to your scrutiny, you
are the only one I see worried about it...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. What worries me is when people lack the ability to comprehend exactly
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 03:06 PM by blm
what is being said or evaluate its accuracy or consider the consequences of spreading the inaccuracies.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Since you have oh so much more
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 03:08 PM by dogday
knowledge and insight than the rest of us low posters... We look to you and seek your guidance..


on edit: why not show your profile????
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. oops
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 11:59 AM by dogday
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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Is he obligated to run everything by Kerry now?
Just curious, as it seems that's the thrust of your argument.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. It's NOT the thrust of my argument - Kerry is one senator. The claim is
that Feingold couldn't discuss a political move - and censure is a political move as it has no legal accountability component - that would REQUIRE support from other senators because they wouldn't have supported it because of consultants.

The claim doesn't ring true BECAUSE the Alito filibuster had just occurred and senators had bucked the consultants to do it.

BTW - Kerry and Kennedy spent hours trying to talk other senators into LEADING the Alito filibuster as Kerry was not a judiciary Dem and was scheduled to be in Europe for his own committee duties. So, Feingold was well aware of which senators would be open to not listening to consultants. Why he says he COULDN'T discuss it with anyone deserves skepticism.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. See post #29
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. That blogger doesn't use ONE FACT to support the claim that NO SENATOR
would be open to listening to Russ's censure idea because of consultants.

I loathe consultants, but Russ is USING the consultants as the reason he didn't take a normal step or show any courtesy to fellow senators who he had just witnessed in action on the Alito filibuster turning against the Dem consultants.

I would bet Russ wouldn't say ANY of this to Kennedy's face or Boxer's or Kerry's or Leahy's.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. You can't compare a Censure to a Filibuster?????
Honestly the two are so different in deed and actions that I fail to see why you make the comparison. A U. S. Senator can introduce any legislation without saying one word to anyone..

That being said, Russ made a decision, apparently you don't like his decision.. You've made that quite clear many times on this thread... I am not going to feed the monkeys, cause they only want more and more...

Keep spreading your opinions about Russ and people will keep posting their about Kerry. Although I have never said a bad word about Kerry, I believe in the right for people to post their thoughts.. You tend to post yours over and over and over and over.. What is that all about????
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Because the Senate doesn't work that way. Russ's strong point that he
would always use in his campaigns to get elected was that he respected process, and that is why he wouldn't vote against a president's nominees. Nominees that will effect this nation for generations to come with their decisions. Process came first to Russ.

Fine - then don't turn around and say that you COULDN'T follow the normal process of gaining support for your idea because no other senator would listen to you without consultants interfering.

That just doesn't ring true for anyone well-acquainted with Russ' entire record and the state of the Senate post Alito when Russ offered the censure.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. You don't use a normal process for
a unprecedented procedure that you know is not going to be looked upon with acceptance...You are just arguing apples and oranges..
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Russ voted for PROCESS to allow impeachment proceedings to continue in the
senate against Clinton. Many wanted the senate to censure INSTEAD of continuing the impeachment process.

Russ sided with process then, and impeachment is hardly a run of the mill procedure.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Russ voted to hear the evidence like
any good lawyer would do.. Democrat or not, if someone breaks the law, they should be held to account... But ultimately decided the evidence was not there, so he voted AGAINST impeachment..... He is not partisan, and this is not partisan politics, that is what you fail to see....
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. I don't fail to see anything - the point was that Russ has always been a
senator respectful of process. Something he reinforced with his decision to let the process of impeachment to continue in the senate.

That he chose this particular MOMENT to AVOID process and not consult with other senators is an aberration for him. And his explanation doesn't hold up considering the records of a number of senators.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Yes he did, he made that decision, I
have said that to you... He made the decision, ask him why he did not consult, but then he believes they would of tried to talk him out of it and he is going forward with or without them on this one...

If you want more info than that, you will just have to ask the man why he did not believe he would get the support from them.....
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. He already said it was because of the consultants. Alito proved that is
nowhere near the reason.

Feingold wasn't dealing with the national Dem party leaders in the Senate then - he was dealing with people he knows and who have supported him and each other on other hotbed issues and he had just witnessed many doing EXACTLY the opposite of his claim during the Alito filibuster.

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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. What does the filibuster have to do with censure again?
You left that part out?? How are they the same in comparrison, cuz one is a hell of alot harder to do than the other and one is sticking one's neck out more than the other, and one has only been done one in this government's lifetime.. So tell me again how the mentality of the filibuster equals that of censure???

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Filibuster went AGAINST the consultants - Feingold claimed consultants
were the reason that he didn't discuss censure with any other senator. The fact that so many senators supported filibuster against the consultants, proves that Feingold is not being accurate. I think he screwed up, and can't admit it, and so he uses the consultant argument as his scapegoat reason.

I agree with Feingold's complaints about the overall Dem consultancy racket. I loathe it. But, don't use a truism to hide behind when asked about your own actions.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Very, very well said. We have to consider what the consultants are doing
to the candidates and to the already elected:

Right now, when the Dem Party establishment puts its arm around you and gets you into office you are BEHOLDEN to listen to their consultants ( :puke: ). Hackett would not listen so he was out. Feingold had to do an end run around the consultants to get the Censure Resolution in.

Of course, the Dem party consultants are LOSING elections over and over and over and still they return to lose more elections. One reason they 'lose' elections is because the consultants won't pay attention to GOP THEFT of elections and give candidates stupid, stupid advice about not speaking out against election fraud because they will 'look paranoid' and give stupid advice to candidates about conceding because otherwise the GOP will call you a SORE LOSER.

Also, the consultants are paid to defend the Dems already in office -- they are defending the establishment instead of assessing the will of the people. This is why the party feels so top-down; top heavy. Do you remember Michael Moore saying that he looked up the re-election rates for the US Congress and the old Soviet Politburo? The US Congress has a higher rate of returns than the old Soviet Politburo did. Congress is trapped in GROUPTHINK - the only way to break it is to get fresh blood in there and the DCCC is all about re-electing consultant-controlled incumbents.

My conclusion:

First, we FIRE All the Consultants.



I'd follow Shakespeare's "First, we kill all the lawyers" more closely, but don't want to be accused of advocating violence.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Consultants do what their bosses ask.
Democratic office holders and leaders can fire their consultants and get new ones with a different viewpoint at any time they like. The elected Democratic leaders are the ones truly responsible for their own actions. Consultants don't get to vote on a censure resolution, Senators do.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. A lot of consultants seem to be entrenched - passed from one Dem to
the next like a lot of DC Congressional Staff people.

I buy that the Dems could fire them any time and that is what I would like to see. N

onetheless - the consultants are part of the 'institutional memory' that connects one generation of Dems with the next and to a new Congressperson the consultants have as much or more effect as mentors as do other members of Congress.

Finally: The most entrenched consultants are those who work for the DNC or DCCC - not beholden to any one or small set of Dems who could hire or fire them.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. I loathe the DNC system that put these media faces in - the Dem pundits
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 11:34 AM by blm
and spokespeople have been the weakest link for the Democratic party since 1997. They were well-schooled in covering for Clinton and defending him but know very little about other Democrats and their records or even enough about major issues to discuss them intelligently.

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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. You don't know consultants too well
Consultants are hired to provide ideas. When you hire someone to just do what is ordered, that's called an employee.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Consultants
are hired to do a lot more than provide ideas. But that doesn't have anything to do with my point. If an elected official doesn't like the ideas and work he/she is getting from the consultant, then he can fire them and hire new ones at any time they like.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
12. Blaming it on consultants is a cheap cop-out.
Consultants advice and help. When it comes down to it, the political leaders themselves make the final decisions. They are the ones who decide which consultants to hire and whether or not to take their advice. Its stupid to blame the hired hands. Blame the elected leadership that tells the consultants what they want them to accomplish.

What Feingold is really saying here is that his Democratic colleagues in the Senate didn't have the courage to support him.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
39. Success has a thousand fathers

and failure is an orphan.

Personally, I think this blame game is just stupid.

How about this simple idea: our Party didn't have a majority. Or, rather, getting a majority in 2000 and 2002 and 2004 required embracing such stupid and conservative positions that winning would have been selfdefeating.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
51. Let him say it to their faces. Alito proved he's just using the consultant
bogeyman to hide behind because he screwed up by not discussing his intention with ONE OTHER SENATOR. According to his claim, Kennedy, Boxer, Kerry, Leahy, and every other Dem senator would have tried to stop him because of their consultants.

So, Feingold didn't want to put his idea up for discussion and get kicked around the way Kerry and Kennedy did on filibustering Alito? Russ couldn't trust Boxer because she listens to consultants?

When did Feingold decide he was too precious to handle discussions with other senators, even those whose records of action prove they would be likely to offer their support?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. GO RUSS!
This article reminds me of the Daily Show sketch they did with Paul Hackett, where they talked to that weasel of a consultant and then made Hackett "electable" (read: lame) to suit the consultant's taste.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I like this part


Whether supported or passed or not, Feingold said, it's important for the history books. When people look back to see what happened here, and wonder if anybody stood up for our Constitution in the face of unprecedented disregard for it, via the illegal practice of spying without a warrant on American citizens on U.S. soil, it'll be right there that at least he and about five others in the Senate had the courage to stand up and say, "No, this is wrong."
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
21. Russ has won handily in a state that is split down the middle
Even people who disagree with him at least respect him. He had a huge $ GOP campaign thrown at him in 2004, but won easily while Kerry just barely carried the state. I think he has a point here; the GOP is really good at smearing people unless they continue the argument as the Repukes have framed it. Breaking the mold and speaking directly to voters is probably the way to go; damage control means you don't lose too badly, but it rarely means you will win.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
23. Who BANKROLLS these consultants? Big business?
If that's the case, we have a major problem.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. The really bad ones?
The GOP. Bank on it.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
28. "He said he believed these policies were violations of the Geneva ...
... Conventions, then added: "But the more important thing is that they are violations of our values, violations of our principles. Who are we to run around the world saying protect the Falun Gong or somebody else's right to speak out, and then we're willing to take people without knowledge of innocence and throw them into torture situations. I think that's reprehensible."


The "he" is Senator Kerry. The interviewer is .

Our job is to do everything we can to make certain that every American HEARS/SEES these words, and the words of Murtha, Conyers, et al.

One major messaging opportunity will be the release of



An Inconvenient Truth - ever more relevant given Bush's environmentally disasterous, national security-endangering response to rising fuel prices.


Peace.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. I used to think
that some congressional Dems were outright traitors -- Repuke operatives, the absolute purest form of DINO.

I now believe that such entities exist, but they are not members of congress; they are the so-called "Democratic consultants". They infiltrate and "advise" with the sole intent of causing Democrats to Lose.
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staunch_hillbilly Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
38. Is there a list of Dem political consultants anywhere?
I'd like to do some research on them and their ties to various interests, etc.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Welcome, staunch-hillbilly!
:hi:

Yeah, me too! Though I'm not as interested in their 'special interests' as I would be their creds.
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staunch_hillbilly Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Howdy
Tanks for the welcome.

I've been doing news clipping and summary for about 6 months now for various agencies (FEMA, Census, Customs, etc.) and would really like to get some campaign work.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. Good luck!
There's plenty out there that need some help.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Take a look at this
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2005/0501.sullivan.html

Fire the Consultants
Why do Democrats promote campaign advisors who lose races?

By Amy Sullivan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




If you were a Democrat running as a first-time candidate for the U.S. Senate in 2002, Joe Hansen was most likely a familiar part of your life. As the field director for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC), Hansen was responsible for recruiting promising candidates, and then for getting the nascent campaigns off to a running start. In the first overwhelming days of your campaign, Joe was a lifeline. He took you out to dinner for pep talks, broke down the fundraising process into something almost manageable, walked you through the selection of campaign staff and consultants, and promised that—if you proved you were a serious candidate by putting together the right team—the DSCC would happily write the checks that might make the difference when things really heated up in the fall. And when it came to choosing just the right firm to design and produce the fliers, postcards, and door hangers that would blanket your state in the closing weeks of the campaign, Joe recommended the very best consultant he knew: Joe Hansen.

In addition to his job at the DSCC, Hansen was also a partner in the direct mail firm of Ambrosino, Muir & Hansen. His sales pitch must have been effective—Democrats in nine of the closest Senate contests in 2002 signed up with Hansen, including Jeanne Shaheen in New Hampshire, Max Cleland in Georgia, and Alex Sanders in South Carolina. The day after the election, only two (Tim Johnson in South Dakota and Mark Pryor in Arkansas) were still standing.

Despite widespread grumbling about his aggressive sales tactics, Hansen is still part of the DSCC (he stepped down as field director midway through 2002 as criticism mounted; officially, he is now a “consultant” for the committee). What's most surprising, though, is that Democratic candidates continue to hire him despite his lousy record. After losing seven of nine close races in 2002, Hansen was again a man in demand during the last election cycle. His firm handled five of the most competitive Senate races in 2004, including the two—Tony Knowles in Alaska and Erskine Bowles in North Carolina—that prognosticators thought were most winnable. Only one of Hansen's candidates, Ken Salazar in Colorado, pulled out a victory.

Hansen is part of a clique of Washington consultants who, through their insider ties, continue to get rewarded with business even after losing continually. Pollster Mark Mellman is popular among Democrats because he tells them what they so desperately want to hear: Their policies are sound, Americans really agree with them more than with Republicans, and if they just repeat their mantras loud enough, voters will eventually embrace the party. As Noam Scheiber pointed out in a New Republic article following the great Democratic debacle of '02, Mellman was, perhaps more than anyone else, the architect of that defeat. As the DSCC's recommended pollster, he advised congressional Democrats to ignore national security and Iraq in favor of an endless campaign about prescription drugs and education. After the party got its clock cleaned based on his advice, Mellman should have been exiled but was instead...promoted. He became the lead pollster for John Kerry's presidential campaign, where he proffered eerily similar advice—stress domestic policy, stay away from attacking Bush—to much the same effect.


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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
44. Anyone remember "Dem Strategist"? A short lived poster who likened us to
"checker players" while he/she him/herself was a "chess player"? Remember then, scorning most ideas put forth...Dems went on to lose? Gosh, it all comes together.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. oh yes.
I'd still like to know who that was. :evilgrin:
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. Translated: The Democratic Party is too beholden to the DLC/Corporations
The Democratic Consultants smell like the "policy arm" of the DLC, who is the policy arm of the Democratic Party for corporate special interests.

Russ was trying to be diplomatic in saying that he's not personally obligated to corporate special interest money and therefore doesn't feel as obligated to listen to them as other Dems are who are obligated to their contributions.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
56. Link to another blogger who attended the Feingold luncheon.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2006/04/lunch-with-russ-feingold.html

It was kind of last minute and ad hoc but today Russ Feingold invited half a dozen L.A. bloggers to come meet him at a restaurant and have lunch and ask him any questions on our minds. I know Russ' policy positions already and I've already given him a big thumbs up and even opened an ACT BLUE Page for his Progressive Patriots political action committee. So what I was looking for was a sense of the man. I got it.

He seemed sincere, committed, open-minded on the one hand while passionate about what he believes in most on the other. He didn't use any Beltway jargon; he seemed like a real straight shooter (unlike his pal McCain).

If you're a DWT regular, you are no doubt aware of how strongly I feel about the careerist politicians in the Democratic Inside-the-Beltway Establishment. If you're new to DWT I will just say that people like Rahm Emanuel and Chuck Schumer seem like only a step or two ahead of Tom DeLay and Bill Frist on the evolutionary scale and almost as advanced as a duck-billed platypus. I didn't think Feingold would fit into that mold and I was relieved to see that he didn't. Not at all. In fact, he mentioned, when questioned about how Schumer and Emanuel conspired to destroy Paul Hackett's senatorial run in Ohio, that he took a meeting with Hackett and wrote him a substantial check to help him retire his campaign debt. Feingold seemed genuinely unhappy about how that whole mess came down and how it would reflect on a political party that is supposed to be different from the weak, ethicless, treacherous Republicans.

<>"This administration," he told us, "doesn't know how to govern the country. But they are brilliant at intimidating Democrats." Obviously, they don't intimidate him at all. He speaks his mind because he believes in his core values and principles. Voters sense that. When Kerry, whose public perception was wishy-washy and someone with a weak value-system, squeaked by to a 10,000 vote victory in Wisconsin, Feingold's far more progressive and outspoken positions garnered him a 300,000 vote victory, despite an avalanche of right-wing money pouring into the unfathomably filthy campaign against him. But it wasn't really about the policy positions per se. It was about the man and how he makes decisions and what he's made of.

I walked into today's meeting admiring Russ Feingold. I walked out feeling even more strongly that this is a real leader that the Democratic Party is lucky to have-- someone who isn't Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton, let alone Joe Lieberman. He may not be as glib and showy, but he's what a lot of us were once hoping Barack Obama would turn out to be.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. That is great thanks for this
He is exactly what we have been looking for... Holding out for a hero...
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
64. He's right. They want YOU to deliver contributors, votes & warm bodies
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 01:31 PM by Neil Lisst
...but, the consultants want to tell the pols what to do while you wait outside.

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
67. I thought TDS demonstrated how out of touch this Dem Consultant was in
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-25-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
75. "People are getting together to overturn the politics of vacuity in ...
Edited on Tue Apr-25-06 05:00 PM by understandinglife
... many ways, but if you’d like to join your own in-state neighbors in the , send an email to stateproject at gmail dot com with (only!) your home state in the subject line. If you can, please include your blog commenting name or kos user name in the body of your note.

Your neighbors look forward to hearing from you.

From Lotus 1-2-3 and the Politics of 1992 By Pachacutec at firedoglake:

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/25/lotus-1-2-3-and-the-politics-of-1992


A very interesting post.

And, check the C&L's New York State Roots Project in Action video:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/04/25.html#a8042



Peace.

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