The death of suburbia

[undergroundpanther]

A poll was asked on DU today,
If your town had a reliable bus system would you use it..
It got me thinking..This is a question that effects EVERYONE.Personally,whether you drive or not. and it goes DEEP into the reasons suburbia was built and the psychological reasons people move out there.
So I wrote this.It's a bit long, Enjoy!.


I live near the Town of Bel Air,A suburb.
I don't drive..My partner does. My eyes are crap at a distance so I can't pass the driver's test even with new prescription eyeglasses.This is a REAL problem for me living out here . Because this is the suburbs,a land of compulsive zoning, where everything is zoned away from eeverything else..effectively sealing off people from people and makling the necessities of life,make a car nessesary.

I HATE having to rely on my partner to drive me places, And this dependancy impacts my life and limits the choices I can make. Hauling groceries for miles every few days and long bus trips takes a tool on a sore back.Going to doctors on time is very difficult if the bus does not show.Poor and disabled people are out here and sometimes they are worse off than I am .I am lucky my partner has a tiny 98 mercury tracer.
I can't help but notice there is an obscene amout of multi vehicle households,with big prosthetic penis trucks, SUVS out here. Often I see them on the road with one person in them. It's disgusting.
And I think it is a symbol of status,that is tied to affording to live out here,it appears as taking up space..because where would you find parking for such a monstrsity in the city?.

Bel Air was built up on the white flight from Baltimore. The housing boom has turned once lush fields,forests and farms into ticky tacky false fronted way too expensive housing developments with pretentious names ,zoned far away from the nescessities of living,the stores,schools and work..

Suburbia is a zoning obscenity,and silly waste of space. And there is a motivation,based in this madness of taking up space and isolation . It is one way of telling the world I am superior and lordly.This social hierarchy problem is one of the reasons for Big yards, big houses,thatlook like fortresses,And big armoured trucks it looks like a weapon,

What does it say?

It says I have entitlement,I am power hungry and I have a cripping hidden fear of weakness of being less..
It has to do with the way businesses have exoploited social rank and classism in human beings.

Walking anywhere out here is laughable,you will walk forever just to get out of the development,after that trek you might have a three mile hike to get to a grocery store.If you need a clothes store it might be two hour walk. It's impossible to live here without a car.And needing a car excludes certain people from ever moving out here.Classism .Despite this we DO have a bus service out here and it SUCKS.It is a pain in the ass because it is a toy to let affluent people tell themselves theyr'e not totally selfish pigs...You might very easily be walking a long time with a bad bus system and it kinda becomes usless if it is not reliable.So you'll never know when you are stranded! Isn't that FUN??

The bus lacks funding to visit routes reliably it is very limited in where it goes to too.It was built in the late 80's.Often when I drive past the bus stops they are vacent.They have little shelters,that bus stops in Baltimore county that get used more often SHOULD have,but don't and in Baltimore county the bus is more reliable and it is the MVA, state run . With that bus you can get to the city and out again.The light rail services the richest areas and it is VERY reliable.Poor neighborhoods in the county have the worst bus routes and they need it to do to get to work.Needs are not important as keeping up appearaces and classist bigotry is in America.
The state legislators who built the light rail are only concerned about their own. So they made sure the rich folks of hunt valley were serviced.( Governer Erlich is from Lutherville out where the light rail is BTW). The light rail ensures rich republican whites can get right downtown to see the Ball games and avoid the hassle of parking.. Fucked up Priorities ,the rich and white can't be inconvienenced by reality you know.

And it is this additude that will destroy this country.
Sadly these self centered dumb as a box of rocks republicans that have flooded the once democratic Harford county, will destroy it..For some people out here it's all about keeping up appearances of being 'a big fish'and snub the'little fish. It's all about moving up in the social hierarchy baby!And wealth means STATUS and privlege.

Case in point: Baltimore County had the lightrail built to and from Baltimore City. Soon after the lightrail was built to Hunt valley mall some affluent business people bemoaned how theft at the mall had increased.
Well Duh'Oh if you have plenty and don't share some of it to support the social safety net, and if your additude humiliates poor people for being poor ,what do you expect them to do?
Lay prostrate before your fat pale dockers encrusted ass and declare .. Ohhh Yes we are inferior people,we cannot be worthy of what you have because we are poor losers ,So we will stay miserable and have nothing just for your comfort and ego trips.What kind of bullshit is that?

Like Hunt Valley,Harford county has plenty of classist bigots looking to keep thier neighborhoods rich,white and "nice".They don't SAY that,but one look at the colors of humans and clothes and cars if the occupying these neighborhoods ,that tells the ugly truth.Nevermind the fact thier own kids are doing most of the crimes out here. There is no Light rail to blame like in Hunt Valley.Thier own neglected kids are bored out of thier minds at home until mom or dad gets off work after doing overtime to pay off the huge mortgage and credit card bills for shit they don't need or stuff they buy to blow off stress or show off.

Kids get bored shitless out here with nowhere to go,nothing to do..and everywhere they gather they are seen as trouble just for being bored young and loitering.
Where do they go when they are shooed out of the mall parkinglot? They meet over someone's house and raid thier parents liquor cabinet,use thier dads car to drive to Baltimore, or to Baltimore County to score some pot or play some hoops where they won't be shooed away from businesses and street corvners like unwanted stray dogs..

Bel air is filled with desperately disconnected suburban kids with thier uninvoled parents money to burn lining thier pockets who want anything but to be trapped in the drab miserable routine driven lives thier parents are calling sucess and'normalicy'.
Socccer camp art camp church ,school,and home isn't a real relationship,for some kids it's like a full time JOB that daddy and mommy want you to do..And we know there is no place at work allowed employees to form or explore thier own identity,even at the water cooler you watch what you say...If the kids can't find themselves in Bel Air they will either go to the city or make something happen here at home,that will show them they can have an impact in shaping thier own life. And A kids life is thiers to live mom and dad cannot live thier life through thier kids life unless they want thier kid to suffer damage.

Maybe a frustrated 14 year old boy can get a nose pierce to create a family crisis because everyone knows dad wants a clean cut son,so fuck you!Maybe become a suicidal goth,and go to a psych ward,and say Fuck You.or A kid looking for themself may form a gang of bullies like the crips and start by egging mailboxes and graduate to killing a cab driver,and say Fuck this town! ANYTHING to fill up the hours and make a point,anything risky enough and different to feel alive and...wanted... needed and that they can do something that gets a resoponse from the normal world around them ,far too busy and self absobed to notice they are dying inside.

http://www.deater.net/weave/jc/belair.html

Kids are suburban parental toys,status symbols and accessories and when they get older servants to mow the lawn or wash dishes and babysit and they know it.They are desperate to matter to someone else as a real human being with thier own dreams and desires independant of family. So anyone,who understands this situation even if it's a gang or an abusive relationship can exploit this terrible pain..of the need to be wanted..to mean something to someone..I understand thier situation,I too fled Bel Air for the excitement and diversity and mental space of Baltimore. If I had the money I'd be back in Baltimore.
That says something.

Suburbia is a false fronted lifestyle in a living space designed to breed children and bring profits to corporations.It's not about real HUMAN BEINGS. If you are not a parent out here you will be bored to death I can vouch for this..

People moving out here want so badly to tell themselves they have risen above the dangers of poverty while they go into debt with credit.It would be hilarious if it wasen't so sad.

I don't doubt some kids may learn bad habits from the drug dealers downtown.I ask why do they even GO there?
I know they come back and ply thier new skills in Bel Air too. The Heroin trade thrives out here.I don't see Baltimore drug dealers selling crack,I see Teens in thier moms SUV or teens passing it at the mall or on the school bus.And of course these hypocrite parents they'll panic,blame the blacks in the city, Blame the people in the priojects and remove affordable housing,cut the bus routes,they'll fortify thier fortress againsst the world.. and lock thier cjhildren down,They'll blame video games,rap music, secular humanism,the gay agenda,
ANYTHING but themselves.
And Republican "leadership" exploits this sick tendancy in these fools because to change one must look inside themself and OWN thier situation and we all know how republicans are SCARED of change.

The suburban oblivious self absorbed parents and thier miserable broods are more dangerous to my well being than a few homeless people looking for a place to live and wanting a shelter. But newer Bel air residents are experts at playing NIMBY,they scream no growth hoping toi shut the gates from all newcomers now that they got thiers..

I have seen Harford county culture change over time and it is sad. The original resaidents of this town don't oppose homeless shelters or good bus services out here because they were raised to care and cultivate community.
They HAD to,fornm connections and sharing the burdens and benifiets was a way for all to live well. I was not inhibited on my old street to run next door for a cup of my neighbors sugar. We were not scared of needing help or reaching out to others in case they need help. The experctation was we were all in this together.It was give and take..and in that process you found out who your neigbors were and who you were.
But things have changed.
Last summer our car battery went Kaput.
We had no way to start it without asking a neighbor for help. We heemed and hawed and finally I went over and asked. The first neighbor was apathetic.The second helped us.As the second neighbor was helpping the first must have felt guilty for being so isolative because she got in her care and drove over our house and asked if she could help..It was too late.

It takes balls to reach out to neighbors who are as strangers now It goes against decades of social conditioning a millenia of social rank to break the patterns..It takes real balls to offer freindship and community relationship to strangers next door. But this is what we all must do.IF we want to survive out here.
It is the old timers and edgewood people and carless teens and disabled people who really NEED bus services NOW.And it is they are who are not too proud to ask for a community in a ocean of islands scattered like stone hearts in squared tracts of short green grass.To the Suv driving brood mother,we are invisible,we are not in HER backyard.We do not exist..But when her armored car breaks down it is one of us poor bus dependant who walks the roads just because she wants to believe in the American cult of self suffeciency and the 'entitlement' of sucess that helps her out first. As other SUVs speed by..

The original people out here when I grew up were DEMOCRATS.Than in the 80's things changed.A housing boom came that destroyed alot of what made harford county a real community.A snotty upwardly mobile yuppie class of effecient,busy,self absorbed people moved in to the false fronted cavernous houses with no tree yards. Social services withered as these new people voted republican to keep more of what they owned all to themselves..

Old time residents of Bel Air did not throw fast food trash by the roadside,if thier kid did it the car was stopped and Jr got out and picked it up. So where did that trash come from?. From people raised with no understanding about what it means to be part of a community,who think because they have money now that someone else will be hired to maintain the things they take for granted like trash free roads.

But since they refuse to pay taxes nobody will be hired to clean up the trash they should have been kind enough to take home and throw away in thier own trashcan or a trashcan designated for it for the sake of others eyes.
The roadside trash piles up until the problem becomes unavoidable.Then long after the old timers got pissed off the newcomers cry out Somebody should fix this eyesore! Legislators say well we will have to raise taxes, the affluent repub newcomes cry no no don't take my money from me(oink)!!

So what do legislators do? They take money from the social safety net,services the poor need and use because we are not supposed to exist out here anyway. . They won't take it from the piggy residents and they dare not offend the big pig developers and companies.. So what do they do? Rob the poor like a good republican.

Upwardly moblie people have the wrong standards,and if you are not like it tough. You can "make it"if you can't pay or do as they do, Die....

Until the affluent by force of necessity of NOT HAVING it,begin to have to live as I and others out here with no car have been living for years when we were invisible to them when they had the money to make me dissapear..they will not care about me,or others in need or the social safety nets or this community or anything else as long as thier money isulates them from reality..

When Suvs aretoo costly to drive for the long commute the additude of entitlement will fade away because more practical realities can chip away the false front money makes and the walls of the fortress will come down..It will make the new Bel Air people realize what the old Bel Air people already know,no man is an island. If you want a community that cares about YOU, You got to care about someone elses well being,someone not like yourself ,someone who needs help and help them yourself.And until they realize that we need each other ,We are all on our own out here.

They will find out soon enough if they want to keep thier nice homes these people are going to have to drop that shitty entitlement additude and think of others too.
It will come down to a choice..do you want to move back to The city that you fled from ?
Or doyou want to buck up to the job of building relationships like adults and pay more taxes?
Will legislators in Hasrford County have the courage and integrity to take back the slush money going to subsidize developers and big businesses and use it to build a good bus system with axcess for all that connects to everywhere thier work demands they go so the residents can survive keep the town alive by leaving the big honking SUV in the two door garage?Will the town be rezoned around human beings?

Or will this change be more gradual, Do we have the time?
If not, How ugly will it get??

Will people buy smaller and smaller cars to forstall the inevitable truth that the suburbian lifestyle was built around CARS,around big business interests ,and appearances that mean NOTHING?..Suburbia was not built around human needs,The City is more built around how humans live.. Will they wake up and realize that we need each other's help and compassion and protection from exploitation and some SERIOUS rezoning and new human ventered priorities ..if we want to survive?

That is what it will come to.

Will these affluent stressed out people resent reality that thier ship never came in? Will they take the pain of realization out on people like me? Brown people,immigrants, poor people ,freaks,women,gays,the disabled,believers in other religions, thier own kids, themselves? Or not. Will they ever grow up?
That is the scariest question I ask myself.Will I be in danger when the chickens come home to roost in the two car garage? I think this is the question lurking under many minds here on DU too.

[henslee]

1. Good post. I have been reading about kids getting arrested in suburban

FL malls for loitering... when there is really no where else for them to hang on weekends. And when you leave the city, there are many gated communities and enclaves like you describe, only they are often fifteen story condos. What a disconnected life. If this is paradise, I'm Brad Pitt. With gas prices rising and RE ready to take a crap, I can only imagine how freaky things will get.

[Kittycat]

8. We have options for kids, but only in good weather.

First off, we don't have public transportation where we live :( I'm a little sadened by that. We are big on using the train to go into the city (my DH works there twice/week). I've only driven into the city twice in the last year. Save the gas, take the train :)

Now, as for the kids. We have a great putt-putt place, nice parks, indoor soccer, sports places, tennis/basketball in all parks (which includes in neighborhood parks for us), drive in, and great public gyms which include soccer and such. But for the most part, the activities available for kids, are limited to good weather. It's cold up here half of the year, and that cuts back on the times places are open or accessible.

Something our community has decided to do, is offer age defined programs for the kids at the clubhouse. We have teen game night, movie night etc. There are playgroups that you can sign up for, and as long as the child is 13 or older, when the pool is open, they can come without an adult. We have lifegaurds and a program director to keep an eye on them. We also have pool tables, walking/bike trails, and as mentioned tennis, sand volleyball and basketball courts all available to them. We pay for some through our home owners association, the builder paid for part, and then we had a city wide tax approval pass to provide more for the kids, in addition to expanding schools. We probably pay more when it comes to taxes, but I'm fine with that, as long as we're getting something out of it to better the community.

[henslee]

10. I am not a parent but as an uncle, I am so glad ny nieces and nephews

are self motivated and active. They read alot, start all sorts of projects, play musical instruments are civic minded. True they live in a city but I think so much of it has to do with what their parents' priorities.

[Kittycat]

14. There are many great opportunities for kids that live in the city - if...

If they seek them out. Chicago has free days for kids to go to the museums and cultural centers. In addition, they have a phenominal library, youth activity centers and so much more. I plan on taking my son into the city to experience these things. They offer special weekend train passes to make it more affordable, and a free trolly system once you arrive. You have to time things right, and sometimes you have to wait - but it's better than not experiencing it at all.

We're actually going into the city on Thursday. I plan on taking my little one to the aquarium, then to see daddy at work. I hope that we have many more opportunities to take him in to the city. My parents never did that, nor stressed the importance of learning and seeing the natural and historic arts, aquariums, etc. They were too preoccupied with going to church, and ensuring that I didn't become a raging liberal... As you can see, that didn't work out too well for them, LOL.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Great post.

[henslee]

12. Off topic....how was that S-gate sunset tonite?

;)

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Not a good one tonight. There was a thunder storm coming in.

It wasvery ominous and almost black as I looked West.

But that was only one night in about 10 that wasn't a fabulous sunset. :D

[marmar]

3. The sooner the better...

I live in a soulless, cookie-cutter suburb to be close to my job and I can't stand it. There's a gourmet market across the street from my apartment complex, but I still have to drive to it because you'd be taking your life into your hands by trying to walk across the traffic-choked street with no sidewalks to get to it.
This is hell. Heaven looks a lot like a centralized city with excellent mass transit, and all the things you need - groceries, coffee houses, stores - within walking distance. (In other words, heaven looks a lot like Manhattan or any major European city).

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Excellent post and description of suburbia...although, suburbia

is where I live, sort of...not new suburbia but 50's plat style, brick ranch housing. My kids never have been and never will be slaves for me. My daughter has never mowed a lawn in her life. I wash the dishes. She has three chores, take care of the cat, keep your room neat, and the bathrooms once a week. ...it's about teaching responsiblity sometimes, not having slaves.

[Breeze54]

15. I live in what was once a "farm town' but...

now has been built up by the yuppies....
They widened Main St and cut down tree's and now all the cars go 60 mph in a 30 mph zone!
Argh!!!
We don't have bus service here but there are buses and trains in the next towns over
to my left and right. I have to have a car if I want to go to a movie or a mall.
Edited to add: We do have a senior/disabled van for free rides to the store and doctor though.
And the driver's are volunteer's! Works pretty good!
We don't have malls like that here but our schools are small and friendly!
The teens use the town hall basement as a teen clubhouse!

My son, 17, hasn't had to cut the grass because the owner has a gardener to do that.
But my son shovels snow, takes out the trash, does the dishes, does his own laundry,
works about ten to fifteen hours a week in a grocery store we can walk to and he helps
out cleaning the house and with other chores, as needed!
It hasn't hurt him one bit and I do not feel guilty!! :)

He wanted to get his license and of course, wants a car but he soon realized
that in order to achieve those goals, he needed to save some money.
He ignored me on that for awhile.
Then when he realized that I wasn't making the arrangements for the driver training school
or paying for it , that he finally took action! (stopped buying video games!)
He has paid for the school and he's in his 3rd week of classes right now.
He's learning responsibility!
He just got promoted and a raise at his job too!
He's been employed there for three years this August!
I'm very proud of him!
He doesn't "feel like a slave"...he feels like a member of this family!

We ALL pitch in....together!

And to the OP..."a tiny 98 mercury tracer"...What? Tiny??
I owned one of those, mine was a wagon.
They are mid-size, 6 cylander and comfortable and are not gas hogs!
At least mine wasn't but I wouldn't call them tiny! :P

My newest car is TINY!!! A '97 Honda Civic Del Sol!
Looks like a roller skate!
:rofl:
I need to get a car a little bigger...this one may go to my son! ;)

Nice post!!!
:kick:

[undergroundpanther]

23. About chores

Chores are a whole different situation if you care and interact with your kids as human beings and show them you appreciate them..Yes, chores are a way to be PART of a family.
BUT if the parent is not there,uninvolved,distant,callous,or emotionally not there for their kids, than that parent is not acting like "family"..so for alienated kids living under the roof of a adult roommate giving orders chores seem almost degrading.

It all depends on the quality of the personal relationship the parent has to their children ..Chores can be good or bad in different contexts. Chores are best understood framed in a relationship.If there is no meaningful relationship between the child and parents chores can become unrewarding obligations and feel like commands from above and it can build resentment in the vacuum of where a good relationship should be.

[Breeze54]

36. Did you think you needed to...

... school me on this? Just wondering.
I'm aware of what a distant, uncaring parent can be like, chores or no chores.
I took psychology and sociology in college too!

[undergroundpanther]

38. Well did you have to tell me the psychology

behind decent parents making kids do chores? Did you get defensive because I used the word "servant?" in reference to kids doing chores?
I was empathizing with some of the kids in my town whom I have listened to.And I feel sad for them.
In case you forgot, in adult dominated households it's kids are who are the most powerless.
And I do think some parents (and this is not only suburban ones ) need to remember how it felt to be a kid, living under the rule of parents,and look at it take off the rose colored glasses and empathize with their kids where they are at.
If some suburban parents are too wrapped up with shopping or working to pay off a big house,and the kids suffer and feel like they are no one ,and suffer because of the insane zoning,culture and isolation of the suburbs who's hurting because of it?

[Breeze54]

49. Ummm...

My reply was to MrsGrumpy...Not to you --->Response to Reply #4

I was relating to her take on chores...I wasn't critisizing her.
I got the impression, from what she wrote, that she thought asking
more of her child was akin to slavery. I was just talking about my
experience with my son and how he didn't feel oppressed!
I'm sorry if you feel offended some how....

[bj2110]

5. Ever watched Weeds on Showtime? Suburbia breeds complacent people...

Plus, Mary Louise Parker is absolutely great in it...

[Breeze54]

19. I'm hardly 'complacent'...and neither are my neighbors!

That's a pretty narrow-minded comment, imho!
Most of the new people I've met in my town are from the city!!
I have lived in a couple of cities so, I have seen the comparison.
I don't like the city, as a place to live but it's fun to visit!
I never was attracted to that lifestyle.
My sister's have been though.
Each to their own!
;)

[RJRoss]

6. Jane Jacobs

died overnight. Have you read Kunstler's "The Geography of Nowhere"? Watch the DVD "The End of Suburbia". This lifestyle is unsustainable.

[Telly Savalas]

13. Shit. I thought you were being metaphorical.

Guess not.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1145976509962&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

[CAcyclist]

48. Oh, I am really sorry to hear that.

She was an icon.

[MountainLaurel]

7. Great stuff!

:applause:

[robertpaulsen]

9. Clusterfuck Nation

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/

Read his book The Long Emergency, you'll see suburbia's destiny.

[henslee]

11. I am all over JHK... one of my fave bookmarks. I like his horrible

architecture of the month designation.

[girl gone mad]

16. I agree with some of what you wrote, but your brush is way too broad.

I live in exurbia, which is worse than suburbia, I suppose. It was a small town when I moved here, but now it's the fastest growing town in my region with big box stores and huge new housing developments going up all over the place.

I"d actually like to live in the city for a while, but the prices for a decent place are completely out of my reach. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about commuting, since I work from home. More and more people telecommute these days, which, along with soaring RE prices, has helped fuel the growth of suburbs and exurtbs.

There are plenty of young families like mine. We've basically been priced out of the downtown and uptown markets. Even once affordable condos have been renovated and prices jacked up beyond our price range.

Despite your criticisms, there is plenty to do out here. All it takes is a miniscule amount of parental involvement to help kids find activities. The kids in my neighborhood play sports in the open pastures, ride dirt bikes and 4-wheelers, swim, go boating, fishing and water skiing on the lake, have parties, start bands and play live shows in their back yards or just loiter about. I'm sure the teens experiment with drugs and alcohol, just like city kids do. Believe it or not, teen boredom exists downtown, too.

We have a Y and very active scouting groups. We have a nice library and kids are welcome to voluneteer. We have block parties and neighborhood barbeques. We have several parks and open softball, volleyball and soccer games. While it isn't possible to walk to the grocery store, it isn't likely I'd be walking most of the time, anyhow. My neighbor manages fine with a small scooter. He takes his daughter riding on the back and she LOVES it. This is a good mixed community, not a white flight situation by any means. I send my son to weekly dinners with a Spanish-speaking family down the street hoping that he'll pick up the language. In exchange, I give one of their daughters piano lessons.

Yes, we have to drive long distances to get to the museums or zoos, or even go to a movie, but we drive a fuel efficient vehicle.

I had some friends who did move to a condo in the city, thinking it would be wonderful to walk to the grocery store and be closer to museums. They lived there a year before they decided it wasn't the life for them and now they are moving out to the desert.

I think subuurbs are here to stay. While it may not be my or your ideal living environment, a lot of people do like home ownership and smaller communites. A lot of people do want to raise their children away from pollution and high crime rates (yes, the crime rates in the city I live near are much higher). A lot of people don't have to commute to work every day and don't consider art and culture a high priority. I believe that many people here do care about others and aren't just trying to get away from seeing homeless people. After Katrina, hundreds of people in my community took in NO residents. A lot of those residents have now decided to stay permanently.

I think suburbs themselves are sustainable, but what is not sustainable is our ineffecient means of commuting to and within the suburbs.

[roseBudd]

17. I live on a street with 100 year old houses and sidewalks and no cul de

sacs and a corner store and restaurants I can walk to, the bus goes by every 20 minutes...

But I live in the city where people sell crack, and suburbanites buy crack and sometimes get killed doing it, and crack dealers sometimes kill each other.

It takes me only 5 minutes to get to work in the city and I shop at the ghetto grocery store because I hate to drive more than 5 minutes for anything. Gas, time and pollution.

Cities have streets that intersect and I have lots of options on which way to go. If there is traffic I just go a different way. Cul de sacs and subdivisions take but offer nothing to the flow of traffic. but...

I don't live in the suburbs where people are always being killed in car wrecks on the formerly rural roads where when you lose control of your car you hit a tree instead of a parked car. Or a car or SUV crosses the line on the windy narrow roads that everyone in the suburbs is stressed over because of all the traffic and people die in those wrecks too. All the fear suburbanites have of crime in the city yet their roads and their cars see fatalities weekly.

[Jim Warren]

18. Appreciate your post/effort

Kunstler.com yes and I remember the book that referred me to Kunstler was Terry Pindel's A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE (1995).

Ironic how when suburbanites go to Disney World one of the most popular attractions is Main Street USA, with the 'ol timey soda fountains, barber shops, etc.

[pitohui]

21. jesus if you're so unhappy just move

if you're miserable, you're miserable, go someplace you're not miserable

for most people suburbia is a hella better life than anything they had back on the farm or back in the city, i'm too old to get shot at (city) and the true rural area means there is no hospital services, tiny or no library, no transportation, etc, my dad had to join the effing army to get off the farm and he wanted a better life for his children and i appreciate his efforts i don't scorn them

for most people suburbia is the best thing that ever happened to them and that is why they call it the american dream that people save up to buy a house in the burbs

you are not going to convince people who can see their life is better in the burbs that they are miserable just because you are

if you don't like suburbia and are unhappy there, fine, but other people are happy and this why the burbs are popular because life is really better

[undergroundpanther]

22. I can't afford to move.

I moved here because I was ashamed of being disabled and got conned by the dream that cons alot of people, of'being independent'. Because I wanted to be "successful" and "pull my own weight" and I denied my own limits ,I got screwed.
I did not want to be on SSI,forever.After all if you are disabled everyone treats you like scum,and everything revolves around work socially as if what you DO is who you ARE. I am on SSI for PSTD. When I tried to "make it" I found out couldn't"hack" being'normal'and I crashed and burned from the stress and my issues, I almost killed myself..and so to prevent from going into debt way over my means,to the point I might have never gotten out, I bit the bullet,I sold my place and I moved in with my mom and went back on disability..So I can't afford rent ANYWHERE with just over 500 bucks a month to live on. And to get section 8 , you may be unaware,the waiting list for a one bedroom rent subsidized apartment is at MINIMUM 15 to 20 years.I am not even sure section 8 accepts any new applicants now. So,I am STUCK here.
I relate to the kids dilemma more than their parents on this one.

[pitohui]

52. your unhappiness doesn't make suburbia bad

it sounds like you do indeed have a terrible life and i hardly know what to say except that i don't think a miserable existence in a section 8 slum dwelling would be any improvement, i used to live in a couple of neighborhoods that were heavily populated by section 8ers, they were free fire zones, i was shot at through the window of my own house!

for most people, suburbia is the ideal lifestyle, close enough to city convenience, yet with the safety and the green space that is required for a full life

slamming suburbia is not going to make your life any better, and if you are indeed stuck there, you need to find the positives instead of the negatives

society treats all poor people like scum, not just the disabled poor, you can't let other people's attitude problems grind you down, it's pointless, the person who judges you based on the cash in your wallet is never going to change

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. No, it's not the ideal lifestyle

It's the lifestyle that has been relentlessly SOLD to the American people for three generations. Many people don't know any other lifestyle directly. They're afraid of the city because the TV portrays it as a cesspool of crime (and populated by those "scary" dark-skinned people besides). They look down on small towns because there's no GAP or Applebees. They look down on rural areas because everyone "knows" that farmers are uncool.

A friend of mine teachers 12th grade English in an affluent suburb of Minneapolis. He has students who have NEVER been into the city. Their parents won't let them go. It's too "dangerous." How can they say that suburbia is "the ideal lifestyle" if they don't know anything else?

Of course people raised like that are going to think that suburbia is "the ideal lifestyle," and they'll go on to raise kids who are smug, , shopping-crazed, car potatoes with brains destroyed by TV just like themselves. (And I'm talking about some of my own relatives here.)

Suburbia: the "ideal lifestyle" that combines the isolation of the farm with the traffic jams of the city.

[cynatnite]

24. When I was a kid, we lived not far from downtown OKC...

and crime was bad. The family tolerated it for the most part. To the suburbs we went when two girls I went to school with were murdered within three months of each other.

We're not all SUV driving, Walmart shopping, well-to-do, soccer moms that are so self-involved with our religion that we can't see past our perfectly mowed yards where there is war, poverty, injustice, racism and all the other problems in the world.

Trash those of us who want a safer and better place for our families all you like. Pass judgments on what you think it says about us all you like. You're wrong.

[undergroundpanther]

32. Well I wasn't talking about YOU

The fact you take my thoughts about a sick suburban culture and the problems with that culture so personally is very telling.

Sure good idea,move to a place where your kids won't get shot.

But I wonder do you get offended when others around you would seek to make sure no one else can move in especially if they look like they are the wrong kind of people? I mean how do you define what is the wrong kind of people?
For me I ask are they a bully? Are they a corporate thug? A rapist,pedophile thief or an addict that does not want to get treatment? Are they abusive?

If they are none of those things, I don't care if they are different than I am, I want them to share my street. I like diversity,salt and pepper neighborhoods with all sorts of people. Some people move to the suburbs because they do not want diversity..

You may have standards and tolerate what some of your neighbors might disagree with.It makes you a better person to not be a reactionary.But sadly some people move out to the suburbs not because they are in danger,but because they like the status.

[cynatnite]

34. I'm offended by the broad strokes you painted

that gets done quite a bit here at DU even when it's unintended. The picture you painted was ugly and so not typical of suburban life or the diverse people who choose to live there.

[undergroundpanther]

37. Ok if you notice I didn't say ALL suburbanites are evil.

I mentioned the atmosphere in places I lived. Hunt Valley,Lutherville and Bel Air.
I mentioned the cultural problems there.
I have heard other people in other communities discribe similar things about thier suburban cultural additudes,
I think it is ugly because some parts of suburbia IS ugly.
And if you don't get this because you want to take it personal..I really have to ask why. I have no clue where you live..I know where I have lived and the problems I see.II know what others tell me. I am reflecting on that.
Also why does Bel Air not invest in Public transport? Because the wealthier population does not need it yet..

[Kickin_Donkey]

25. Nice rant ...

but not really a rant -- too reflective, level-headed ... more like an elegy.

... big prosthetic penis trucks, SUVS ... LOL That's a new one.

[undergroundpanther]

31. What gets me is some guys

even get some Truck Nutz and stick them on thier prosthetic penis trucks !
Check it out..
http://www.trucknutz.com/

I have thought about sticking some big truck nutz on our little car.. Just to mess with thier fake masculinity.

Imagine a big pair of Nutz dangling on a car like this one..

[HEyHEY]

26. A wee bit judgemental aren't we?

There's assholes out there... they don't all live in the Suburbs. In fact I grew up in what could be called a suburb. It is full of healthy, friendly people. There's never a shortage of volunteers for anything, and a chapter of the Cripps hasn't opened up. Plus there's a policy to designate a certain amount of housing to social housing.
In fact, we there's even a bylaw that bans herbicide and pesticide use. A very responsible, open-minded area of the city.

[undergroundpanther]

28. Wee bit defensive?

I am talking about the problems I myself have encountered living out here. It is speaking from what I observed and it IS ugly. That said,OF course not everyone out here is an asshole.

But the CULTURE stinks like one. the culture I see out here is not all that kind to poor people,brown people,the unemployed or disabled people. Just last year a bunch of nimbies prevented a homeless shelter from being built that would house ten people. Always the whiny nimbys show up screaming ooooga booga homeless people are dangerous,and they prevent others from having a home and a chance like they have had. They are preserving their"privileged" lives at the expense of others..While they IGNORE the fact some of their own kids are committing crimes. It's disgusting hypocrisy if you ask me..And The saddest part is it will all come crashing in on all of us.Suburbia is not a sustainable lifestyle.

[girl gone mad]

33. I still don't get the argument that suburbs aren't sustainable.

I live on an acre of land. If we have energy shortages, we've got plenty of space for solar panels and can put up a wind turbine. If we have water shortages, we can dig a well. If there are food shortages, we've got grazing land for cows, goats and chickens. I can turn my raised beds into vegetable and herb gardens.

What are people in the city going to do? Gas shortages wouldn't just effect people commuting from the suburbs to the city. Rising oil prices will cause inflation in food prices, energy prices, even taxi and bus fare. People in cities won't be immune from the effects of high oil prices. I just don't believe city dwelling is significantly more energy efficient.

At present, the American lifestyle is not sustainable. I'm speaking in terms of our overconsumption of everything, including raw energy.

[undergroundpanther]

39. Well depends

In a place like my town if grocery deliveries are not made,the supermarkets run out of food in 3 days.
http://www.living-room.org/suburbia/notworks.htm


The problem is deep it is zoning,and the consuming suburban life requires is unsustainable.
Not everyone can buy solar panels Not everyone has an acre of land.

Did you know to grow enough food for one person to live on for a year you will need a minimum of an acre and a half of tillable land..How many people live on your acre?

Alot of people don't really understand or comprehend how hard and laborious life might be without the things we have grown to depend on like washing machines,cars supermarkets streetlights and furnaces.

And not all people are prepared for such a shock.

And truthfully it could happen.
And if it does crash ,being in the suburbs,sitting in a house with useful steal-able objects in a neighborhood full of people you barely know might not be a good idea.

[rinsd]

45. LOL

"And truthfully it could happen.
And if it does crash ,being in the suburbs,sitting in a house with useful steal-able objects in a neighborhood full of people you barely know might not be a good idea."

Because during the major NYC blackouts everyone held hands and sang kumbaya.

You have to be shitting me. If that apocalypic mess goes down its doesn't matter where you live except maybe a farm. You are screwed.

On edit: Human indifference is not caused by the type of locale. See the case of Kitty Genovese

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

[Chovexani]

55. Heh

Because during the major NYC blackouts everyone held hands and sang kumbaya.

During the last one? They sure as hell did on my block.

Neighbors across the street made jerk chicken, the bodega gave the kids free sodas and people played music in the street. It was nice, actually. (I won't mention the, uh, "smoking" I did with my Rastafarian neighbors. ;))

[girl gone mad]

51. It doesn't take an acre.

There's a book called "Square Foot Gardening". I have used this method and it works great. I've known people in the city who have block gardens that are far less than an acre, and using the SFG method they grow enough vegetables for the entire block during the warm seasons.

I still say that if we have energy shortages you are better off with a bit of land than with none.

I'm someone who would prefer to live in the city, but to assert that the suburbs are entirely bad and the people in them heartless strikes me as disingenuos. Cities and suburbs each have their own merits. The problem to me is not where people choose to live, it's how people choose to live. This applies equally to people in cities and suburbs. My mother in law is a city dweller. Though she is within walking distance of shops and grocery stores, she almost always drives.

[HEyHEY]

41. Defensive? No.

I'm a city guy.I was pointing out a fact. Your rant has a thick layer of judgement and stereotyping in it.

[Solon]

29. Its not the people, its the planning that is a HUGE problem...

Look at the most common suburban areas in the US and you find, lack of any type of public transportation, zoning that makes little if any sense, with Shopping Malls and Grocery stores that are MILES from most living areas and they themselves, parking lots included, take up a square mile or more of land for ONE store, or, if you are lucky, a strip mall with a half dozen stores in all. Or you get mega malls, which take up miles of space, usually "reclaimed" farmland, that have hundreds of stores in them, however, are usually segregated from any type of residential neighborhoods. Hell, in my area, St. Louis, Missouri, our newest mall, St. Louis Mills, is the largest mall in the area and can take you forever to walk through, its built out in the middle of No WHERE, literally NOTHING around it, its a little north of Earth City, which is itself just a huge Commercial park. This mall is on so empty of land that its all a single floor, it doesn't have an upstairs, and can take many hours to walk through. Is this type of arrangement really sustainable?

Think about it, people are just spread out enough in these areas so that most types of public transportation is uneconomical, but at the same time, just dense enough where they have problems with congestion and other so called "city problems". So, they have to rely on the Automobile as the primary means of transportation, the problem is that hauling around 2000 lbs. of steel and plastic to transport One person, most of the time, isn't efficient, and now that oil prices are rising, that inefficiency is going to bite us in the ass.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. That was the gospel of urban planning in the 1960s

I have a friend who got a master's in urban planning from UCLA in 1965. They learned all this stuff about not having anything near anything else and surrounding everything with grass and making sure, first and foremost, to plan for plenty of parking.

[Odin2005]

27. Thank God I live in the city center.

I'm like the first poster, I can't drive because of my eyesight. I WALK to class, WALK to work, WALK to the store, WALK to the coffee shop, WALK to the YMCA, WALK to the park, take the BUS to the bookstore, take the BUS to see my doctor, etc. I live right in Downtown Fargo-Moorhead, and let me tell you, it is a lot more "Family Friendly" then the soulless suburbs. The houses have character, they have PORCHES from where you can talk to your neighbor, the streets are lines with old American Elms. Main Street and Old Broadway are filled with little stores and restaurants occuping old and/or restored brick buildings.

James Kunstler said something to the effect that Suburbia is the biggest waste of resources in the history of Mankind. We have been living in a quasi-delusion created by Big Auto, Big Oil, and our consumerist culture for the last 60 years and reality is about to bite us in the ass (though I think his apocalyptic "Mad Max" vision is a bit over the top). Morality, fiscal responsibilty, human decency, and a sense of comunity have gone out the window in our worship of the twin gods of Consumption and the Almighty Buck. Our society is one giant Ponzi scheme requiring constant economic growth to function.

[undergroundpanther]

30. You got it EXACTLY right Odin.

And I wish so bad I too lived in a town built around human beings instead of a human breeding ground built to breed more workers and milk more profits for industry and the almighty wall street ponzi scam.

Get this load of shit..I bet they are talking about people stranded in suburbia..
http://www.docuticker.com/2006/01/high-cost-or-high-opportunity-cost.html
Don't think Wall street and the"markets" is a huge POnzi scam? THink Again!
http://blogs.salon.com/0002007/2004/05/07.html
http://www.sacredlands.org/pyramid.htm

[BooScout]

35. I live in a small town and I can walk, ride the bus or train....

...to anywhere. The difference is I'm in the UK and not in the States. The public transit over here is great although I'm not a native and I would imagine some natives would disagree with me, lol.

America has got to rethink it's urban/suburban planning in order to make the turn to reality. I moved here from Atlanta. They do have a pretty good mass transit and more and more people are using it. The problem with it is that for years the white suburbs didn't want it into their counties because they were so scared it would bring black people and crime. White flight built most of the suburbs in America, I know I watched it happen. It's time to quit being so afraid of one another.

In Atlanta, people are moving back into the city in droves. Many are coming from the suburbs where they got sick of sitting in traffic. They are moving into inner city neighborhoods and revitalizing them. As a result house prices anywhere inside the Perimeter (the highway that circles Atlanta and serves as a sort of dividing line between metro and rural...or used to until sprawl got there and passed it) have been rising for sometime but there is still affordable housing if you are willing to go into areas that are not perfect and work to change things.

Local, State and Federal planners are going to have to address housing concerns for people not making over 50k a year. Low income housing must be set aside for those who need it. Otherwise you have no one to work in the grocery stores, retail shops, the dry cleaners, etc that are needed to support urban residents. Gasoline needs to be taxed and and the proceeds used along with local, state and federal subsidies to build and improve public transit, not to mention the infrastructure which is crumbling across all of America.

City Centers need to be developed not killed off with megamalls in the burbs. Bring back downtown department stores. Give businesses tax incentives to move in town instead of having them flee to the burbs. Build with denser housing. Very few American cities even have a clue as to what size houses are really needed to make things work. Houses in the States and their accompanying yards are huge. Condos are catching on but the complexes are still sprawling. Have terraced houses (think townhouses) built. Build highrise housing that is affordable and safe. Give incentive to police, firemen, nurses, paramedics, teachers, etc. to live in the areas where they work by giving them low interest mortgages and financial help in buying homes. Charge an impact fee to drivers entering city areas that are so congested with traffic that nothing moves even on a good day.

My point is, it can be done. But it won't be easy. The time has passed to sit and moan about how it won't work where you live because it's so spread out or you can't afford it, etc. Take a look around you and see what you can do to make it better. Big or small. Do one thing to make a start in the right direction and eventually others will follow....at least they might until gas prices drop again. Then all bets are off. As Americans our attention is only usually captured by the crisis of the moment. If it's front and center we are hot and heavy with talking about it, but once it loses it's headline of the moment status we push it to the back of our minds and let it fester there.

[Odin2005]

40. Getting the old urban cores better PR is vital.

A lot of the reason people left the old city centers in the first place was racism. This continues to be reinforced today with right-wing propaganda about black inner-city areas. When people say they want to live in a "good neighborhood with good schools and low crime" they really mean they want to stay way from poor, inner-city minorities.

[Armstead]

42. Great Post -- Deerves to be on the front page.

The impact on society as well as the environment of the "suburban" mentality of sprawl is one of the most important -- but ignored -- issues we face.

I grew up in a neighborhood that still had a lot of woods and fields and ponds and swamps where we pent our days after school. I credit that with having nurtured a lot of qualities like love of nature, the ability to play and general appreciation of our actual place inthe world.

The same neighborhood today has either been developed or walled off behind "No Tresspassing" signs. So the kids in my neighborhood don;t hve the same opportuities to be kids anymore. No wonder they turn to video games and otehr artificial substitutes for real life.

[rinsd]

43. Sorry, city living does not make one MORE community conscious...

..in fact depending on the crime rate and apartment availability is may be more difficult to do so because of fear and transition.

On edit: I took out city living sucking because its all relative, each way of living (city, suburban, rural) has its advatanges and disdavatages and its up to the individual to figure out what works best for them.

[Sammy Pepys]

47. City dweller here....

...and I love it, but part of me cannot wait until it's time to leave the city and move to the burbs.

I grew up in the burbs and loved it. A city can be a tricky place to do that. Only the rich folks can afford the to live in the houses with yards, or in areas where it's safe to walk around at night. While many city parks are nice, some of them tend to serve as "all purpose" areas, if you know what I mean. There are kids that live in my apartment building that have no place to play, no yard to run around in, they're stuck inside having to play in the hallways...it actually bums me out a little bit. They don't even a cul-de-sac they can skateboard or ride a bike in....in fact they don't even have skateboards or bikes (too many busy streets around here).

[Iniquitous Bunny]

44. I hope so.

I grew up in a moderate-sized city, within the city. I loved it! In my early teens, I utilized public transportation and could walk to just about anything I'd need. My family moved when I was in high school to another part of the country where it seems everything is relegated (in all fairness, as is most of the US) to urban in one place and suburban as the place people live in. I could live in an urban setting, but in all honesty, I have children and the school system in nearby urban areas are at best mediocre and at worse, dangerous. So I compromise. I live in a large, diverse town/small city, but it lacks much culture and is so-so with public transportation. I'd love to live in Boston or Philadelphia or Manhattan, but it's not affordable.

While I hate that I had to pay $50 to fill my tank today, I can cut back just a little and I truly hope this sparks something new in our society. Most of Europe pays more than we pay and they have public transportation, less obesity, and an absence of gas-guzzling, wasteful vehicles.

[madinmaryland]

46. Well written post!!!

I live in a community south of Baltimore which is a planned community (Columbia). We are within walking distance of our village center, which consists of a grocery store, banks, dentist, hair salon, package store, drug store and a few other businesses. There are multiple villages within columbia, so that you in theory should have to make only one trip, either driving, or walking if you are close enough. In addition, they have installed 300 miles of walking paths connecting the various villages and within the villages themselves. There is also a public transportation system here (bus) that seems to run on a fairly regular basis.

I have noticed this trend for the last 20 years as a resident of CT and it seems to be happening nationwide. My son, lives in a gated community and the only thing he has to do is sit at home and surf the net. He goes to the mall, when he can get a ride.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

50. Very insightful

I enjoy suburbia because I don't do well with crowds, but we MUST come up with more community resources, transportation (I don't drive, either), etc. Here we do have a Dial a Ride for a dollar. Or it used to be. Not sure now. But we need to rethink. I could not live in concrete cities, however, I would shrivel and die. I have to have trees and green and flowers and animals right outside my door.