If the USA is addicted to oil does that make Exxon our drug dealer?

[iconoclastNYC]

I really think that the solution is to raid Exxon, find the evidence of collusion and use it as a pretext to nationalize the oil industry with a mandate to get us off the junk in 20 years.

[meegbear]

1. We need rehab and the dealers should be in jail ....

with madatory drug sentencing.

[jschurchin]

2. YEP!!!!!

:banghead: :banghead:

[Beelzebud]

3. Fedgov is the pimp, Big Oil is the John, and we're the whores

getting fucked by both.

[Initech]

4. Exxon's the supplier, Halliburton is the pimp, Bush is the drug dealer

[Strelnikov_]

5. So Are We Also Going To Nationalize The Petroleum Resources

of:

Canada
Mexico
Venezuala
Saudi Arabia
Nigeria
Angola
Algeria
Iraq (oops, Mission Accomplished^TM)
Virgin Islands
Russia
Ecuador
United Kingdom
Brazil
Norway
Kuwait

that account for ~ 65% of our petroleum supply?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html

[iconoclastNYC]

10. Nice strawman.

Any moron knows you can't nationalize something that doesn't exist in your country.

You nationalize the operations in the USA.....the refineries, the distribution system, the wholesale and retail markets. This is where the price fixing is.

[Strelnikov_]

12. I Agree. You Did Put Up A Nice Strawman.

Since we import 65% of the petroleum we consume, we are bidding against the rest of the world for the limited supply of oil available. The price of petroleum feedstock is the major driver in the long term average price of petroleum derived fuels.

For this reason, we can nationalize our entire oil industry and it would still have little impact on price, if consumption remains the same. It would most likely lead to shortages.

The only permanent solution to the oil trap we now find ourselves in is massive conservation measures coupled with development of redundant alternative energy sources and carriers to petroleum derived liquid fuels.

In lieu of rationing by price, a carbon credit system of rationing should be established to ensure a baseline quantity of energy at a baseline price. Consumers would pay market price for energy consumption over the baseline quantity.

[iconoclastNYC]

13. You are willifully ignorant

The price of crude oil is the price that refineries pay. Then the crude oil is refined into gasoline, marked up, and sold on the wholesale market. It is purchased by retails, marked up and sold to consumers.

The oil companies have effectivly eliminated competition at the wholesale and retail levels.

It's price fixing 101 and this is the sort of thing that defeats the free market and screws over consumers and holds the economy hostage.

If we have a real investigation where we raided these companies i'm confidant we could prove this case.

Unfortuantely in America there are no politicians with the bravery nor temerity to take on the oil cartels.

Leaders who go up against entrenched power tend to wind up dead either by murder or it the press.

Entrenched power is even known to pay people to spread misinformation on online message boards.

[Strelnikov_]

14. Are You Accusing Me Of Being A Paid Shill Spreading Misinformation, Sir?

The run up in retail gas prices has essentially paralleled the run up in crude prices, but you are alleging that the current price increase is primarily due to forces downstream of the refinery.

Who is being willfully ignorant here?

I have seen your trash before.

[iconoclastNYC]

15. You are spreading misinformation

Whether you do that for free or not I can't know.

I know what you are saying is wrong because I've read many people who say that the price of gasoline has increased far more then the increase in crude would explain.

[Strelnikov_]

16. So I Am Spreading Misinformation By Stating That

the only permanent solution to the oil trap we now find ourselves in is massive conservation measures coupled with development of redundant alternative energy sources and carriers to petroleum derived liquid fuels.

The price of refined product is a function of the price of feedstock. The long term energy crises, and the resultant price spikes, we face is due to a lack of feedstock.

[iconoclastNYC]

17. You are distracting from the illegal actions that the oil cartels

Are taking to drive up prices. And you are denying it. The law must be enforced.

You want to change the subject. By being dishonest and spreading misinformation.

[Strelnikov_]

19. So I Am Being Dishonest And Spreading Misinformation

by simply pointing out that we import 65% of our oil, and that measures against oil companies will therefoire only address 35% of our supply.

Strange.

[iconoclastNYC]

20. That's only part of the story

You are repeating something that EVERYONE knows to distract from my larger point that the oil companies have eliminated competition in the wholesale and retail markets.

[Strelnikov_]

21. If Everyone Knows This, Elvis, How Am I Spreading Misinformation

as you accused me of?

[iconoclastNYC]

23. That 100% of the increase in gas prices

Is due to the increae in crude prices. This is just not the case. There is collusion in the retail and wholesale markets and they constrain supply when they switch over from one seasonal blend to another.

[Strelnikov_]

26. When Did I Say That 100% Of The Increase Was Due To Feedstock?

Most is due to feedstock, but not all. The refining industry is probably taking some advantage.

My original point was is that if we set price caps or 'Nationalize' the oil companies, in the absence of any other measures, it will have little effect on prices, and probably lead to shortages, since we would be bidding against the world for the remaining 65% of our oil supply.

If we want to 'Nationalize' anything, we should create a USEA and operate petroleum supply, particularly downstream of the supertanker, as a regulated PUC in a nationwide TVA-like system for energy infrastructure. As a part of this, a carbon credit rationing system would be established to provide a baseline of affordable energy. That we still have within our control.

[Talismom]

6. LOCK 'EM UP NOW! n/t

[flakey_foont]

7. I said, "GODDAM"

the Pusher Man

[flakey_foont]

8. should be the

BUSHer Man

[corporate_mike]

9. How about BP, Shell, Chevron, Citgo?

They're all equally profitable

[iconoclastNYC]

11. Well it's a non-starter.

But yeah go after them too..... all refinery, distribution, wholesale and retail operations.

News reports of massive collision among the oil companies "in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

[Acebass]

18. We knew this would happen in the 70s...

We need to think past Oil!...

[iconoclastNYC]

24. I agree.

We need a comprehensive approach to the energy crisis.

This is a perfect example of when society must term to socialism to solve problems.

[Acebass]

27. It's about the people...

It says "We The People" not whatever the corporation wants!...
Socialism is only a bad word to capitalists, who don't really know the meaning of the word...

[Spider Jerusalem]

22. Exxon?

What about Shell, BP, Chevron-Texaco, Citgo, et cetera? Why focus on Exxon? They aren't the only oil company. I think the idea that going after ONE oil company, through boycott or other means, when there are dozens in the industry, is staggeringly idiotic and betrays a very deep ignorance of certain basic realities of the economics of the oil business and economics in general. It's almost painful to read te scores of misguided diatribes that people who don't really know what the hell they're talking about have posted here over the past few weeks.

[iconoclastNYC]

25. Great points.

I think Exxon is the most arrogant of the oil companies. NO real proof for this, just a hunch, based mostly on their handling of global warming. THey are the oil company who is pushing the "global warming is a myth" non-sense.

If nothing else Exxon is the easiest target because the citizenry hold the most antipathy towards Exxon.