Are neoconservatives neoliberal?

[Jed Dilligan]

I understand the neocons are a pretty small group and neoliberalism is a sweeping global agenda. My question is, are the neocons merely militant neoliberals, or are they something else entirely? :shrug:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

1. original neo-liberals

of the Straus variety. I'm not sure how the term got changed. I guess since they took over the conserative party? :shrug:

[Warpy]

2. I have no idea what "neoliberal" is, except as a made up word

that right wing pundits came up with to deflect attention away from their neocon heroes. It's purpose is obfuscative, in other words.

[htuttle]

3. The term 'neo-liberal' predates the term 'neo-con', I think

Neo-liberal refers to the OLD use of the word 'liberal' to refer to capitalism.

The first time I heard it was in an anti-WTO article, quite some time ago (before the 'Battle of Seattle').

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. yep. good article here...

"Neo-liberalism" is a set of economic policies that have become widespread during the last 25 years or so. Although the word is rarely heard in the United States, you can clearly see the effects of neo-liberalism here as the rich grow richer and the poor grow poorer.

"Liberalism" can refer to political, economic, or even religious ideas. In the U.S. political liberalism has been a strategy to prevent social conflict. It is presented to poor and working people as progressive compared to conservative or Right-wing. Economic liberalism is different. Conservative politicians who say they hate "liberals" -- meaning the political type -- have no real problem with economic liberalism, including neo-liberalism.

"Neo" means we are talking about a new kind of liberalism. So what was the old kind? The liberal school of economics became famous in Europe when Adam Smith, a Scottish economist, published a book in 1776 called The Wealth of Nations. He and others advocated the abolition of government intervention in economic matters. No restrictions on manufacturing, no barriers to commerce, no tariffs, he said; free trade was the best way for a nation's economy to develop. Such ideas were "liberal" in the sense of no controls. This application of individualism encouraged "free" enterprise," "free" competition -- which came to mean, free for the capitalists to make huge profits as they wished.

Economic liberalism prevailed in the United States through the 1800s and early 1900s. Then the Great Depression of the 1930s led an economist named John Maynard Keynes to a theory that challenged liberalism as the best policy for capitalists. He said, in essence, that full employment is necessary for capitalism to grow and it can be achieved only if governments and central banks intervene to increase employment. These ideas had much influence on President Roosevelt's New Deal -- which did improve life for many people. The belief that government should advance the common good became widely accepted.
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalDefined.html

[Roland99]

6. I don't see too many neocons worried about economic policy

It's mostly just furthering US military entrenchment around the world (specifically the Middle East) in order to keep money flowing into US corporate coffers.

Any other aspect of economic policy pales in priority.

[Finder]

7. It is all about the economy...

and I won't coin the well known phrase here, out of respect.

Tom Friedman, although not one of "ours", has a good book out--The world is Flat.

[Roland99]

8. Well, this administration seems to only worry about theirs and their buds

the rest of the world can suck it.

[Finder]

10. And that is why many "neocons" are speaking out...

Torture, outing CIA agents, stepping on the constitution, faith based initiatives and personal profiting at the expense of others were never part of the plan. Alas, they are a small group and opened Pandora's box.

They saw others as useful idiots and now they find they were the useful idiots.

[Roland99]

11. They're just trying to cover their own asses and stay financially viable

to future employers.

[arcos]

12. You don't see neocons trying to work out "free trade agreements"?

Where have you been?

[Roland99]

14. Free Trade Agreement != economic policy

There's more to policy than that and there are several aspects to the GOP.

You have the warmongering neocons, the radical clerics, and the Norquist camp. The neocons are more concerned with controlling resources vital to US interests (oil)

[arcos]

16. Sure...

But neocons support much more than just military action, they want to control the whole world so that it serves US interests. That's not only oil, and not only the Middle East, but about controlling other countries by any and all means possible. That includes military interventions and certainly forcing economic policies too, such as free trade. It is certainly a very important part of their agenda.

[Roland99]

17. I see it as more than economic policy....

IMO, policy involves a decision-making process with advisors and even debate to determine the course that best benefits all of America.

What they're doing is nothing short of Pinky and the Brain world domination with little regard for any consequences or ramifications of their actions.

[Jed Dilligan]

18. Right

Moderate dems and Repugs are both "Classical Liberal" in that they are followers of Smith, Malthus, et al. Welfare-state liberalism, the more current meaning today, arose as a sop to the masses to prevent outright commie revolution.

[bananas]

9. Yes, it was used outside the U.S. for several decades

"liberal" means "free", and it refers to "free-trade" or "economic liberalism".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberal

Neoliberalism is widely used as a description of the revived form of economic liberalism that became increasingly important in international economic policy discussions from the 1970s onwards.

In its dominant international use, neoliberalism refers to a political-economic philosophy that de-emphasizes or rejects government intervention in the domestic economy. It focuses on free-market methods, fewer restrictions on business operations, and property rights. In foreign policy, neoliberalism favors the opening of foreign markets by political means, using economic pressure, diplomacy, and/or military intervention. <snip>

[arcos]

13. Check again...

Neoliberalism is much older than neoconservatism, and it is used much more by left wingers than by right wingers, although usually outside of the US.

[Finder]

5. Yes, but not militant..more intellectuals...

who found it was easier to manipulate the right. Not for sinister reasons, mind you, but it got out of control. Read Fukuyama's new book for some insight.

[RB TexLa]

15. Many of the "neocons" in power today came from Scoop Jackson's office

In theory, yes you are correct taken by strict definitions neocons and neoliberals share much. There were many on the Democratic side during the cold war era that saw the fight for civil rights and the fight for freedom in the Soviet bloc to be the similar fights. Hawkish Dems such as Jackson and others that felt this way and saw fighting both as fighting for freedom. You can see it on both the left and right of the Democratic Party. Kennedy's inaugural made some pretty good "neocon/neoliberal" statements, that we would defend any of our friends, that we all breathe the same air. Pretty much we will use our military to defend other's freedoms has we had done 20 years before and the "globalization" idea of looking at world citizen's as equals. Jimmy Carter firmly made human rights a part of our foreign policy, didn't push it with the military but made it something we incorporate into how we deal with other countries.

Obviously both theories get used and applied differently in reality than in definition. There does have to be a balance as to the willingness to put boots on the ground and shed American blood in the defense and promotion of freedom. There are times it is necessary and times when we have to work diplomatically and work with other countries to get things done. And of course the lives of our and allies young men and women should be utterly the last resort in such dealings. It is however my belief that oppressors and those who commit genocide and other crimes against humanity must know that we if situations get to that last resort will commit to that sacrifice.

[Jed Dilligan]

19. The can o' worms gets opened

when the "freedom" we're protecting goes beyond individual human rights and liberties and extends to corporations' "rights" and "liberties." Which makes a leader in the developing world who nationalizes resources equivalent to a leader who attempts to murder a whole ethnic or religious group.