Rant about evangelicals going door-to-door

[kevinbgoode]

Well, I just finished a conversation with an evangelical who was inviting me to some program at his church about Flight 93. . .and you know, just like the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Church of Latter-Day Saints, the new fundies like to knock on doors in hopes of recruiting people to their religious philosophy. Usually I just say that I'm not interested and close the door, but today I felt particularly annoyed at being interrupted and when I opened the door I surprised myself by directly engaging this man.

Since I'm an adult graduate student, I live in a state-owned complex on a university campus, meaning the only people living here are adult students (mostly graduate students) and families. When he made his pitch and quickly saw how annoyed I was by looking in my eyes, I tried to (politely, but rather coldly) respond that as a legal adult I found it bothersome that certain people of religious persuasion seem to think that I'm not capable of making my own spiritual decisions without their attempts to recruit and that I resented the idea that their church apparently believed that a place of residence, solely populated by legal adults, should be open to their solicitation simply because THEY believed others should be making the spiritual choices THEY want them to make. Then I quoted the part of my state constitution which says: "Every man is entitled to worship God according to his own conscience" and pointedly asked what problem his church has with that notion. . .

He was clearly shocked, and I think he was looking at me as if I was a member of satan's cult. . .an idea that could have easily been accentuated since I had been lying on the sofa and my hair was a mess and I hadn't shaved yet at 1 p.m. on a Saturday afternoon....hahahaha...

His response was rather slow as he tried to figure out how to be diplomatic, but he annoyed me even more when he said "You mean that you don't like anyone coming to your home to share something...or to sell something?" I responded that, by far, the people who interrupt the sanctity of my home are those of a particular "conservative" religious faith, and that I found their intentions disrespectful of the fact that God created me a certain way, that I have a rather productive and congenial relationship with God, and that I believed I was born just fine the first time without having to challenge God's intentions by being "born again." I think that caught him off-guard for a moment, so he asked if I treated everyone who came to my home like that. . .especially if they were soliciting something. I told him that on two occasions in FOUR years, I had cable television people knock and a girl scout who lived in the complex asking me to purchase cookies. So naturally, being a persecuted "christian" that all "conservatives" claim to be, he said "oh, so you think that was okay but it's not okay for people to share their religious beliefs with others."

Well, I kinda surprised him - because I said "No, it's not. This is MY home. The people who live here are all adults who make their own decisions about their relationship with God and their own spiritual journey. There are many Muslims, some Buddhists, some christians of other faiths living here, along with probably some atheists and agnostics. All of them have made their own decisions based on using their right to choose those experiences - and that I view door-to-door recruiting attempts as disrespectful of the ability of individuals to drive through town and select any church they might be interested in attending. After all, I said, it's not like your church is some underground organization which no one could identify - and that there are churches on every street corner which any one of us can choose to walk in, or go with a friend, or make a selection at any time.

That really threw him off, particularly when I added that I felt my own journey with God was none of his business, since deeply-held personal beliefs are just THAT - PERSONAL - and not applicable to judging the lives of others, yet I believe you represent a church which feels entitled to promoting just that judgement by assuming that each of us are souls to "harvest" simply because we don't belong to that church. I added that I found evangelicals who followed the teachings of televangelists as gospel to be greatly deficient in personal critical thinking skills and appeared to be inherently insecure...and then added, yes, I just judged you - and that's what happens when you violate my rights by assuming my home is a proper place to impose your "sharing" of faith at YOUR leisure.

I then told him that his church obviously turns more people away because it is determined that America is supposed to be a theocracy, and I figured he'd protest about America being a "christian" nation - which he didn't - so before he could say anything I added that I don't believe that James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson or Rev. Moon represented my religious beliefs and that I was more than tired of seeing them being portrayed as the personal spokesmodels for God. He did agree with me on that one - which surprised me - though I must admit he still looked rather taken aback at my brazenness. (note - don't bother me when I'm lying on the sofa with my eyes just about to take a nap).

So I told him about Paul Cameron (famous fundie junk scientist -and like many sheeple who really don't know anything more than what they are told by the minister, he didn't know who the anti-gay junker is) . . .and told him I found that people who were deliberately deceptive as not very representative of God. I padded that with some rather poignant stories of gay couples I knew who had suffered greatly because of the STUPID state statutes that only allowed distant relatives to make choices about their funerals - rather than the people they LIVED with for 20 years. I rather pointedly explained that death, just like life, is a personal journey which the State nor the Church should be directing, and most certainly not interfering with the rights of a couple of any kind to be buried next to each other simply to satisfy some church across town.

He got visibly nervous then, and said that he'd disagree with me there, and started edging away from me. . .like he wanted to get out of there....hahaha. He said that I don't understand that it WOULD affect him, but that we'd just have to agree to disagree. . .and then I really surprised myself. I responded rather quickly..."No, we don't agree to disagree. It's not about you. It has nothing to do with you because it isn't YOU. That's the problem with your "religion" - you think everyone else's life is all about YOU - and it isn't.

He did excuse himself rather quickly, but thanked me for the chance to meet me . . .and yes, I was a bitch and should have been more courteous...after all, did I have much CHOICE but to meet him? I have no peephole to see who is actually AT the door. . .

The good thing about this experience for me is that I honestly had a chance to really test myself in conversation beyond a couple of fast remarks with one of these people - and I took the offense immediately. I think, when he figured out I was likely gay, that signaled his recoiling a little. . .though I'd rather think that he suddenly saw the bright light of truth and it scared him just like the Muslim living around the corner of the building would have ten minutes earlier. . .well, okay...I can hope.

But the revelation I got about myself in this encounter was that I rendered him without much argument, and he must have sensed that as he beat a hasty retreat, particularly about the gay funeral issue. It really dawned on me quite clearly that these people really DO think that everyone's life is about THEM, and that gives them the inherent right to attempt to "correct" it according to their own beliefs in God. And when it comes to things like those funeral examples, it really hit me in a much more clearly defined way than ever before, just how selfish and self-centered these people are to believe that someone else's funeral arrangements directly affected THEM. . .that two people in a gay relationships shouldn't be buried next to each other because it might offend HIS idea of GOD. I actually really understood what this is all about - they have no respect for anyone else's constitutional rights, no real respect for other's religious choices, and no respect for individual sovereignty from state interference.

If my state ends up with a marriage amendment proposal, I'm ready for battle. And these people are going to be exposed for the petty, self-serving, demanding, interlopers of human rights they truly are. . .

I'll have to check with the university housing office on Monday, because I do have an increasing issue with these door-to-door solicitations on university property. This isn't the "free speech" forum that the university forces all of us to use if WE want to exercise our rights - and this isn't a maintenance issue. This is also not an issue where an ON-CAMPUS ministry or student group is soliciting - and yes, I would have certainly handled them differently, but then they would likely not knock on the door - they would just post flyers like any other campus group. This was an OFF-CAMPUS church and thus, it would seem to me they should seek permission to go door-to-door, particularly in housing.

Ok...so I was a bitch and I wasn't very giving. . .and yes, I was judgemental. . .so I guess my penance should be that I let ya'll beat me up. . .:-).

[saltpoint]

1. Two words: Super Squirter.

I wouldn't worry about not having a peephole to see who's at the door.

Just keep a very filled Super Squirter on the inside of your doorway so that when the next fundie knocks, you're ready for a micromanaged Flood event. It's a very Biblical concept.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

5. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You amateur.

Only cowards need tools.

(See my post below, and a big smoooooooch to you, my buddy.........)

[saltpoint]

17. LOL!! Hey, I like your concept. It would give the fundie proselytizers

something to think about.

A big smooch right back.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. Gee........

I would have invited him in, but only if he first promised to spend the rest of the day having wild monkey sex with me and the monkey.

[nicknameless]

66. You might want to be careful with that kind of reply.

So many of these fundies are closet kinks. If he didn't take you up on the offer right away, you could still end up with a stalker.

:scared:

[yellerpup]

3. Rave on!

Strip away those delusions. :applause:

[Nobody]

4. Knock knock, I have a fan club I'd like you to join....

Never mind that you might not have read the book, or even like the book, or have much respect for the author. But I'm going door to door to sign people up for the fan club I'm the head of.

Joining my fan club means I get to make the rules and you get to give me money. Plus, I don't have to pay taxes.

So what's this book you should be reading and thinking is the best book of all?

"My Pet Goat"

[jschurchin]

6. What? Beat you up?

Oh, hell no. BRAVO, he won't be back :rofl:. Not unless he wants another dose religious freedom. BRAVO.

[Hardrada]

7. You deserve a gold medal for going that distance.

I simply chuck them out with a tad of profanity.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. you get no crap from me. I wouldn't have been so nice.

just put a little sign on your door "no Soliciting or Evangelizing"

No more problems. :)

[LuckyLib]

45. Our door plaque says "No solicitors, religious or otherwise. We're

happy just the way we are. When that changes, we'll call you." It keeps away all but the most dense of the fundies!

[kevinbgoode]

52. I would love to get a plaque like that. . .

or at least a sign. Did you purchase that or make it yourselves?

[LuckyLib]

59. We found it years ago at a little local shop. It's ceramic, a fired

tile. Our neighbors had one too, but someone stole it. It's a good one!

[mitchtv]

9. Glad you have such patience

Two mormon boys approached me at my garage door. I said "Mormons? keep moving" the JW's I told them I didn't believe in heresy.

[Yupster]

73. We get visited by different Mormon

young men (elders on their nametags) about once a year.

I always offer them a drink of water and a chance to use the restroom, and then send them on their way.

I did get a Mormon Bible a few years ago from a couple, but haven't read it yet. Maybe some day.

Edited so I don't get a visit from Conan the Grammarian.

[POAS]

10. Nice Job, only thing I might have changed is

(if I had the ciyrage to get as far as you did) would have been to tell him that he wasn't excsed to leave when he first tried to leave. He interupted your day and now that it was getting inconvenient for him he wants to go,

Hell no, tell him to stay and take the medicine he invited when he first knocked uninvited.

[Lars39]

11. Outstanding!

Thank you for posting your experience.
You have given me new insights and rebuttals to have on hand so that I'm not blindsided.

:yourock::toast: :applause:

[Miss Chybil]

12. I like your epiphany about them thinking everything is about THEM.

That's really good. You just gave me an epiphany, too!

[xchrom]

13. just a couple of things -- maybe in 1920 these were well

meaning attempts at reaching out to people to come to church.

i would maintain those days are over -- and these are like soft assaults.

evangelicals today -- as you pointed out BELIEVE that you are in some way deficient, unless you are a fundie.

you are an ENEMY OF GOD if you don't believe the way they do -- and that goes for catholics and jews as well{note both are certain to be sent to hell regardless of congenial relations about other topics}

and about the gay thing -- you really did sort of hit the nail on the head.

but if you stop and think about it -- while to a certain extent it's about what i do with my genitals -- it's really about getting their hands on straight peoples genitals.

if they can get you to agree that gay marriage is bad -- even though you are not a christian of their persuasion -- then they have just put their hands down your heterosexual pants or up your skirt{that's if you are hetero}.

it would require laws to keep me from doing x, y, z with my body -- and, praise the lord, YOU would have to follow those laws as well.

other than that -- well done and you have my thanks.

[Duer 157099]

14. Nicely done

In the past few months, I've had similar visits by no less than FOUR such groups (sometimes repeat visits!) -- Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Baptists and another whose denomination I've forgotten.

I am usually polite and engage them a little bit before sending them on their way with the assurance that they are wasting their time with me.

But, I'm rethinking my strategy now. I'm reading a very wonderful book called "Losing Faith in Faith" by a guy who spent 19 years as one of those fundamentalist evangelists, but who now is part of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and is an atheist.

I'm thinking that it's probably better if I waste a good portion of their time by inviting them in and engaging them for a lengthy discussion, if for no other reason than to prevent them from hitting too many homes. Since I also used to be one of them, I know how they think and what their strategy is, and how to answer them.

I don't especially care to be the person who challenges their faith, because I honestly believe in freedom of religion, or lack thereof. The problem is that they obviously don't.

So, woe be unto the next proselytizer who knocks on my door, if it be at a time when I can engage them!!

[Beelzebud]

15. Notice "extreme" atheists never come door to door like that.

[Pastiche423]

58. Hey, you're right!

In all of my 52 years, never once has an extreme or "regular" atheist come to my door.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. That's because we're too busy destroying the left with our evil logic

and bigoted refusal to shut up and get to the back of the bus.

[QC]

16. What is your take on this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2597583

[Beelzebud]

18. A political party is not a religion.

Trying to tell people facts about the government we currently have is one thing.

Trying to convert you to their religion is a whole other thing...

Apples and oranges...

[QC]

28. One person's facts are another person's treasured beliefs.

So, actually, these two practices are precisely the same.

FWIW, I don't like solicitation of any kind--I have enough contact with people at work that when I get home I don't want anyone to bother me. But I just wanted to see how long it would take someone to come up with a way that it can be good to solicit for beliefs we agree with and bad to solicit for beliefs we disagree with.

I was not disappointed.

[kevinbgoode]

39. Actually, I don't like politicians coming to my door at random

either, and have only seen ONE doing that in four years and only leaving brochures AT the door. However, at least someone then is engaging me about MY government, whether I agree with the political party or not - rather than someone else's "deeply-held and personally chosen" religious beliefs. Religious people don't come to my door to engage me about MY religious beliefs, but about THEIRS.

A political operative, whether Republican or Democrat, is distributing information about MY government - or about OUR government - so the message affects everyone. Does that make them welcome? Not particularly - I find it rather presumptuous for anyone in this day and age to think they can just drop by anyone's home at random and interrupt them for a reason. If any political party came to my door soliciting donations, for example, they'd get it pretty hard. Hell, I even let the DNC have it when they called me for donations a couple of weeks ago, and I had no problem informing them that I don't like phone solicitations and then giving them some rather sharp opinions about what the party is NOT doing right now. . .

However, I've found that door-to-door political operations, at least where I live, are not using it too much anyway. . .the only one I've ever seen was a Green candidate, and he was just leaving brochures, not knocking on doors.

[Inland]

29. Here, it's other people coming to your door with a message you don't like

There, it's you going to the other people's door with a message they don't like.

Completely different.

[QC]

30. True. LOL! n/t

[Acebass]

19. A friend of mine solved that problem...

He came to the door naked, they never came back...:rofl:

[Beelzebud]

20. I greeted some witnesses in my underwear one morning.

I was working 3rd shift, so I was sleeping during the day, and had been asleep for an hour when I was awoken by this POUNDING on my door. I go to see who it is, and it's these two wide-eyed people that had come to tell me about being a Jehova's Witness.

I stood there in my underwear, and asked them if it would be ok if I stopped by their house at 1:00 AM to wake them up and try to talk them out of their faith.

Never seen one back here again! :D

[Acebass]

22. Works don't it...LOL

[skooooo]

25. ..lol....nt

[Inland]

31. But I'm too sexy for my solicitors!

I'm so hot, I'd have all the church ladies coming by!

[Acebass]

65. groan...n/t

[LiberalPartisan]

33. I knew somone who did the same thing...

Invited them in - said he'd be right back and came back butt nekkid.

[jdadd]

69. A friend told me

He was visited by the JWs many times until he told them he had recently converted to the Jewish faith...he then started to unzip his fly and offered to show them his recent circumcision...:rofl:

[Warpy]

21. When they'd wake me up after I'd worked a 12 hour night shift

I wasn't merely argumentative or even rude, I was RABID. None of them has bothered me for the past 6 years or so.

Your arguments were great and may have started one fundy questioning, and that is the beginning of a real spiritual journey.

These folks are no different from telemarketers or spammers, IMO, they're invading your space and trying to sell you something at their convenience, not yours.

[seabeyond]

23. i welcome those that knock on my door, and precede to converse

in much the same way as you. i see it as an opportunity to let religion know that i will not support them as long as they promote hate. they have walked from christs lite and for me it would be equal for me to betray christ in embracing their religion. when they decide to drop the hate, then i will again support their orginization. and yes, they do want to run. but it is an opportunity for them to spend some time thinking as they walk to the next door, beyond what their ministers are teaching them.

good for you

i refuse to just say no thank you

[Clovis Sangrail]

24. making your own decisions

I view door-to-door recruiting attempts as disrespectful of the ability of individuals to drive through town and select any church they might be interested in attending

So people coming to my door and reminding me to vote or encouraging me to vote a particular way are being disrespectful as well... right?

I'm an adult.
I've made my decision about who to vote for and if I vote.
Who I agree with is a very personal decision.


:hide:

[kevinbgoode]

43. And perhaps that is exactly what you need to say to them, then

if it annoys you. However, there are some differences that make things like voting more difficult. For example, not everyone knows where to vote - after all, there isn't a place with a steeple on it on each street corner for "voting" that is easily identifiable and used by people each Sunday morning and Wednesday night. . .rather than on an odd Tuesday at the beginning of an odd month rather than the first Tuesday in November, which also can be confusing to some people.

Coming door-to-door to encourage you to vote in a particular way should not require a face-to-face contact. Leave some printed information at the mail slot and move on.

Moreover, voting isn't something that you are "going to hell" for if you don't engage in it, either. . .nor is it a deeply-held spiritual belief. . .though it might be construed as attempting to violate your constitutional rights if someone went door-to-door telling you that IF you vote you are being condemned to hell. Voting is an expression of participation in selecting everyone's government. What the corner church is soliciting is about recruitment to their spiritual life without regard for my rights at all. . .when the choices are clearly laid out in specific locations for me to select from at any given time if I am interested in exploration. A voting booth set up once every year or so at odd dates in the basement of the VFW isn't such a likely and publicly known site.

[cpousnret]

26. this is a damn great

post.please read it.freedom of religion is important,as is freedom from religion

[malaise]

27. You are really patient

I'd have told him to get the fugg out of my home. The Mormons and Jehovahs don't bother us anymore. We've told them to fugg off so often that they now know better.
Edit -sp.

[LiberalPartisan]

32. I usually tell them

I'm a devout Catholic and Jesus would like it if they joined me for Mass that afternoon since I go to Mass every day and don't ya know Mass starts on 30 minutes and if we leave right now we'll make it in time but they can't take the Eucharist because they've not been confrimed in the Catholic church - ya know the Church Christ himself founded - and thus they are damned to Hell for all eternity - and don't you think you should be saving your soul so here's some material on converting to Catholicism and please hurry because I think Jesus would be just a little pissed off at you ignoring His call!....followed by the slamming of the door. Works wonders.

[stray cat]

34. Would you feel the same about progressive political action groups

I don't want anyone coming to my door regardless of what they are selling. This include political action committees I might even agree with. On the other hand I did break all my rules to campaign door to door for Kerry even though I think that too is invasive solicitation that is offensive.

[Vinca]

35. Wow - you get an "A" for patience.

I'd have yelled at them to get off the porch or I'd have them arrested!:rofl:

[i kiss first]

36. well done kevin

[DarkTirade]

37. My dad had the best way of dealing with those kinds of people...

we saw them going door to door in our neighborhood one day and he pulled out an old paperback I hadn't seen before. It was entitled 'How to Deal With Fakes at your Door.' and then underneath the title, it listed most of people you have to deal with, I.E., religious zealots, amway salesmen, ect. He just leaned it up against the window next to the door.
Yeah, they never even knocked. :)

Of course, if you're willing, there'se the old standby. Step one: Answer the door naked. Step two: Get angry at them for ruining your 'fun time'. Step three: Hilarity ensues. This one only really works if you're home alone though, otherwise it can get messy.

A friend of mine did something similar, only in his case, he's a fairly big, intimidating guy, covered in tattoos. He answered the door in his underwear, and proceded to 'do his business' right in the bushes by the front door while the guy started his spiel. When asked what he was doing, he said, "Hey, I always go to the bathroom right after I wake up. You woke me up. Do the math."

[A HERETIC I AM]

38. Absolutely outstanding! Well done!

I am particularly fond of this part:
"That really threw him off, particularly when I added that I felt my own journey with God was none of his business, since deeply-held personal beliefs are just THAT - PERSONAL - and not applicable to judging the lives of others, yet I believe you represent a church which feels entitled to promoting just that judgement by assuming that each of us are souls to "harvest" simply because we don't belong to that church. I added that I found evangelicals who followed the teachings of televangelists as gospel to be greatly deficient in personal critical thinking skills and appeared to be inherently insecure...and then added, yes, I just judged you - and that's what happens when you violate my rights by assuming my home is a proper place to impose your "sharing" of faith at YOUR leisure.

I then told him that his church obviously turns more people away because it is determined that America is supposed to be a theocracy, and I figured he'd protest about America being a "christian" nation - which he didn't - so before he could say anything I added that I don't believe that James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson or Rev. Moon represented my religious beliefs and that I was more than tired of seeing them being portrayed as the personal spokesmodels for God. He did agree with me on that one - which surprised me - though I must admit he still looked rather taken aback at my brazenness. (note - don't bother me when I'm lying on the sofa with my eyes just about to take a nap).'


Note to self: NEVER FUCK WITH Kevinbgoode when it's nap time!

Those types used to come around every Saturday and Sunday when i lived in Palmdale, CA. I would just look them in the eye and say "I'm just not interested. I am Atheist. Have a good day" One time after i said that this lady said to me "May i ask you a question? I've never met an atheist". I said "Have you met a hundred people that don't go to your church?? She said yes and i said "Then you've met at least ten Atheists. She asked a few more questions about why i was Atheist. "You don't believe in god AT ALL?" I told her that belief had nothing to do with it, that i KNOW god is a mythical construct and that i afforded it as much credence as i did Leprechauns and Unicorns. She didnt like that at all. Then i asked her "That bible there is the word of god, right? Everything in it is true, infallible and directed by your loving god, correct? She answered yes. I opened it to Psalm 137 - 9, read it to her and said "So much for your loving god. Have a good day.

Shortly after that all of the church folk stopped coming by my place.

[American Tragedy]

51. I guarantee that she's met plenty of atheists

as well as agnostics, pagans, and every other imaginable religious affiliation or lack thereof. She simply presumes that everybody must wear their spiritual alignment on their sleeve just like she does.

[msongs]

40. they do it for themselves, not to convert you ->

they claim they are told to go forth and spread their version of the word, and they do. that gives them brownie points
which they can use to justify their mission. Whether or not you convert is irrelevant, tho a bonus if you do.

it is not about you. It is about them and how they can talk to each other of all the horror stories from their side
of the door, just like we may talk about the horror stories from our side of the door.

score one for both sides on this issue

Msongs
www.msongs.com
batik & digital art
mugs and shirts

[Jara sang]

41. Tell them you'll join their church if they have sex with you.

I assume that anybody who knocks on my door wants to get into my pants. Good post.

[roguevalley]

42. you did good. you weren't a bitch. you actually confronted this

person on their rudeness in bothering you, their arrogance about them being rightest and the assinine belief that you don't have a belief system already. idiots. you done good.

Some jehovah's witnesses did this to my mom once. She told them no and they actually followed her around the house where the doberman, Pagan, who was GINORMOUS and black and tan came around the corner to defend her. You never saw two idiots leave a place so fast. Its a cherished memory to this day. :)

[elfin]

44. Hand them a coat hanger and tell them

to go to South Dakota.

[kevinbgoode]

48. Bwahahahahahahaha. . .

now you know I'm going to keep a few coathangers by the door. . .:-).

[savemefromdumbya]

46. He was after your money

after all that is what the loony Christian factions are after.

[Skidmore]

47. That was beautiful...I would add to the idea that it is all about them

by introducing the idea that many of these folks have addictive personalities. They need a huge billy club to help them control their excesses. I grew up in a fundamentalist church and so many of the people I met in them had problems with alcohol, sex, drugs, gambling, any vice you would care to name. Without the crutch of religion, would drift back to the harmful behavior they could not control by will power alone.

BTW...I'm going to save your rant and read it now and then. Would serve as a good source of ammo for the battle on the front lines.

Well done...

You've earned a restful weekend.

[morningglory]

49. Fundies knocked and my husband answered the door. Our free-range

chickens had roosted on something high under the porch roof and pooped drippy gobs of poop down a wall on to the porch floor. They made their little invitational spiel. Hubby got a crazed look in his eye and blurted "Do I smell SHIT? Yes, that's shit!!" They turned and ran out of the yard.

[DanCa]

50. That's one of the reasons why I got a 173 lb Mastiff

Unfortunately the pizza man is scarred to come to my door too. So you got your good and your bad.

[kdpeters]

53. Did this person really deserve all your pent up frustration

with the entire religious right? Maybe you left out most of his side of the conversation, but from your account here, he simply invited you to church when you ripped into him for opinions he may or may not have held and about religious leaders he may or may not respect, listen to, or even know anything about.

Was there is more to his side of the conversation than you're telling that confirmed to you that this person was, indeed, a rabid, right-winger fundie? If your story is accurate as told, I'd have to agree that you were a bitch and judgemental. :)

[seabeyond]

55. i dont think it matters and here is why

i am a christian. i dont mind that people are angry at me, the christian. as a matter of fact i can appreciate it. and i think those that are opposed to what the fundie right are doing in the name of the lord should value the people that are angry, .... in the name of the lord. we do have the dobsons and falwells and robertsons representing our christianity as a whole. we the people, we the christians need to stand up, have an obligation and responsibility to stand up and say no. and if we dont, then we deserve the scorn being heaped on us.

this person did state they weren't for the falwells,... as i have had all the religious say to me. yet this person did want his belief in homosexuality to be handed to all across board because of his religious beliefs which is exactly representative of falwells

i cannot tell you spiritually how important i think it is for churches to know that they are turning off their fellow christians in their hate. it is their lesson not mine.

when a person knocks on that door to "share" their desire to recruit a stranger to their religion, they should at least be able to have the fortitude to withstand a difference of opinion.

as a christian i feel just as strong of a need to speak out, as this person to knock on my door.

but then, i dont mind them coming by to chat. nor any other org i agree with or disagree with. because truly, i know we all chose a path to walk, thru experiences in life and i am comfortable with all progress we each make individually. so i am not in the need to "change" a person. just let them know the diversity that exists.

[kevinbgoode]

60. He confirmed that he didn't believe gays should have funeral

arrangement rights, after I told him about a body being exhumed from a grave by a distant relative and two friends who were buried 150 miles apart from each other. And he told me he was an evangelical. If I want to listen to a fundie message, all I have to do is turn on my television 24/7. . .

This will sound bitchy, but as a gay man I don't really think I owe these people any better consideration than they give my life.

[kevinbgoode]

61. I did leave out one thing. . .

He said I was a "valued human being in God's eyes". . .and I responded that I KNEW that. . .and didn't require verification of that from anyone else. Yep. . that was bitchy. . .haha.

[seabeyond]

62. i say bully for you n/t

[kdpeters]

76. No. It doesn't sound bitchy at all

I only said bitchy and judgemental because those were the words you used. I was hoping the smiley would indicate a bit of tongue-in-cheekiness. I don't really think that way. But you should know that there does exist a breed of evangelical that doesn't feel the need to foist their beliefs onto others. Admittedly, they are probably very few in comparison to the whole, but they do exist. Tony Campolo and his wife come to mind, as does the pastor at the church where I grew up. That's the reason I think it is important to know who you are engaging before you unleash.

I'm all for engaging people, and they certainly need to hear everything you said. That's the word you used, and that's what I trust you did. My only concern, like others on the thread, comes from my perspective of someone who canvasses for Democratic candidates. I actually hope for people to engage me. That gives me the chance to plant the seeds of a different perspective. Being on the receiving end of someone's displaced anger, however, is quite unnerving.

Being a gay man myself, I tend to have the same sort of visceral disgust at religious recruitment, but incivility won't create much change where a little tact just might have opened a door.

[GoneOffShore]

68. It's time to be judgmental with fundies

They're judgmental with anyone not in their 'club'.

I've been annoyed by evangelical god botherers since I knew what they were. It's not just freedom of religion, it's freedom from religion.

the OP gave us a pretty clear account of what went down, and had every right to be annoyed.

I do not put up with god botherers at my door, though I will let political canvassers talk to me. If they're Repugs I'll give them an earful of course.

[dsc]

54. You actually do have a choice

put a no solicitor sign on your door. I agree the door to door religious thing can be bothersome but that solution works brilliantly.

[Yupster]

74. I probably don't get visited once in six months

It really doesn't bother me.

I got a visit from a door to door stock broker though. That seemed a lot weirder to me. I was still polite though.

[dsc]

77. I don't get visited much either

If I did a sign would appear immediately.

[mcscajun]

56. Beat you Up? HELL, NO! I'd give you a big HUG instead.

That was outstanding! Bravo! :applause:

However, I am amazed he stuck it out that long. You must have been a bit more subtle with your verbal inflections than what I've read into your transcript. :)

OTOH, you are Far, FAR more subtle (and way more effective, IMHO) than my late friend who once greeted the last appearance of Jehovah's Witnesses at his NYC apartment on a Sunday morning by flinging the door open and giving them a big loud "Hello!", stark naked. Yes, he knew it was them; they'd been there before around the same time every two weeks for a couple of rounds. :)

[karlrschneider]

57. Well done. Check ur inbox

:D
:toast:

[knitter4democracy]

63. Good for you! Door to door has the worst success rate, too.

I always pointedly ask them why they're going door to door when it has the worst success rate, missions-wise. Then, I ask them for their church's info and tell them I'm going to talk with their pastor about it, which I do after they've left. I ask him why he's wasting God's resources on a crappy way to spread the Gospel and let him stew about it (they usually cite St. Paul's verse on going door to door, which I counter with how he didn't have tv or radio or even a mass mailing system--all of which are more successful).

Yeah, I'm a Christian, and I used to be an evangelical. I've gone door to door before, but not for my faith (I have handed out tracts on a street corner, but that was the worst). Those kinds of Christians don't consider me to be a Christian anymore, though, since they think my church is leading our flock to hell (long story as to why), so I don't waste much breath on them other than to tell them they're wasting God's resources and my time.

[jdelullo]

64. You are my hero

I kinda feel bad for the young guys who are forced to be religious door-to-door salesmen for like 2 years of their lives or w/e, but way to stick it to a fundy. You are an inspiration.

It really would have been a pisser if he would have come in and drank a brew and watched a ballgame with you.

[Cleita]

67. Son-in-law put locks on all the gates to our property.

It's like Fort Knox now. No one can enter without being invited in. We were getting pestered by Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons every week. No more.

[GoneOffShore]

70. No need to beat yourself up

this guy showed up at your door, uninvited and attempted to engage you about your 'soul'.

He's lucky he didn't get a a butt full of rock salt out of a shotgun.

[Warren DeMontague]

72. Buy one of these:

http://www.rof.com/no_preaching.htm

[The Straight Story]

75. Maybe we, the evangelical democrats, should go door to door...(nt)

[Festivito]

78. Rude, predjudiced, angry, and a good writer.

You need a door sign:
No Solicitations.
Or,
No religious solicitations.

People do have a right (free speech) to knock on your door to talk, even if they don't know you.
You can change this law, if you feel so inclined.

He had a right to knock and talk.
It is understandable why he'd look quizzical about someone so knowlegable and yet so rude about it. Why someone of such intelligence would be so angry with him because of other people he had not even brought into the conversation.

You also assumed him to be various people he was not, you prejudged him at several points in the conversation.

By the time you arrived at the homosexual argument, you had already shown youself as, well, demented, that being someone of learning whose argumentation seems strangely detached from the reality his learning would indicate. I can't blame him for backing away from you.

I think you are justifiably angry at many, too many Christians. I don't think you had reason enough to suspect that this guy was one of the ones should make you mad.