Proposal to SOLVE the Illegal Immigration problem...

[Solon]

One that doesn't involve building a wall or arresting a single undocumented worker, and also would provide direct benefit to all. OK, first things first, most people are talking about short term solutions like fining/arresting employers, etc. The problem is that none of these problems address the various sources for the problems that make people leave their homes and be desperate enough to come here looking for work. Also, before people start saying "Mexico has to solve its own problems" remember they are a signatory of NAFTA and no longer have any real control over their economy. Our farm subsidies force Mexican farmers off their lands, etc. and Mexico can't do much about that. Besides, NAFTA is pretty bad, it costs us jobs, Mexicans jobs, and Canada jobs.

OK, the recognition that this is a BI-LATERAL if not MULTI-LATERAL problem is the first step to solving it. So, how to solve it, how about, this is just a guess, get rid of NAFTA? OK, this won't solve all illegal immigration problems, the reason is that Mexico would still be impoverished and the US will still be considered a place for jobs. Now, illegal immigration would be greatly reduced, but not eliminated, so let's see if we can solve that, OK?

I propose that we replace NAFTA with another Multi-lateral agreement, a treaty that concentrates on the rights of WORKERS rather than CORPORATIONS, no more Chapter 11, in other words. Now, the question is how such a treaty would be structured, first thing I imagine that would be important is a Worker's Bill of Rights to apply to all citizens of Canada, the United States, and Mexico, this would include:

1. Maximum working week of 40 hours a week, overtime of at least time and a half for any work done past 8 hours a day.

2. Unrestricted right of workers to organize as they see fit.

3. Age restriction for workers, must be at least 16 years old to be employed, employment hours for 16-18 year old is restricted to 15-25 hours a week, limit of 10 pm local standard time for end of shift.

4. Right to a safe workplace, to be administered by an international regulatory body.

5. Right to free movement within the borders of all Signatory bodies, if you can get a good job in Mexico city, or Ontario, and you aren't a citizen in either country, you can work their if job is available.

6. Right to a minimum standard living wage, calculated based on current standards of living within the locality in question, through the Census.

7. Guaranteed allotment for Social Security, to be claimed either through disability or retirement.

All right, I'm out of ideas for this Bill of Rights for Workers, anyone who wants to chip in go ahead, now onto the other stuff.

OK, a Phasing in of Mexico's economy, including the encouragement of investment by LOCAL Mexican companies, including low interest loans, grants, and other channels to help build their economy to increase the standard of living to US/Canadian levels, this one could take a while.

A common currency, name and such is unimportant, but will at first supplement and then replace the currencies of the 3 primary signatory nations.

Establishment of an North American Mediation Court, to handle civil disputes between workers and companies, in addition to any governments involved.

Establishment of a Worker's Council, consisting of individuals elected by all Unionized workers in equal numbers from each signatory nation, will have unrestrained regulatory power over companies operating within said Union.

These are just the basics, obviously something this complex cannot be covered in just one post, but I touched upon the important points. I left out the idea for a North American Parliament, but such a body, limited to North American regional issues only, elected by the people, wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, I wasn't sure about the Worker's Council, I don't know if it should be represented by the Presidents of the various Unions in all three nations or directly elected by their members. I'm thinking a combination of both, have the Unions elect a Representative who is a member of their Union. Anyways, what do you guys think? And yes, before you ask, this is, roughly, based on the European Union model, I have problems with the EU, particularly with transparency, but then again, I'm not copying it wholesale for this Continent, that wouldn't work anyways. Rather, think of it as a rough model that can be molded to fit our circumstances, and also to improve upon it, to make it more democratic overall.

[mike_c]

1. K&R-- this gets right to the heart of the problem...

...and avoids scapegoating working people or pitting one group against another. Economic systems that benefit the few at the expense of the many CREATE the situation we're in today, where some workers have no hope of a better life, or in many cases even of simple survival, in their native economies, and it isn't all Mexico's fault. WE have helped create the problem, and we'll help only solve it if WE are part of the solution.

Bravo!

[Solon]

2. I try...

A couple of things I left out, that I probably should have included would be Enviromental regulations and Health Care. The reason why I didn't really touch upon these is that I honestly don't really know how to approach them, assuming they are laws passed by the Parliment, or put in the treaty itself, I would say they could be "ground floor" provisions, requiring each National Government to provide the basic needs or regulations, and they are free to improve upon those themselves, same idea as the Federal Minimum Wage.

[Spinzonner]

3. Too complicated

Annex Mexico. If they're part of the US, they're not immigrants or illegal.

We did it before, we can do it again.

[treestar]

31. Sometimes I wonder why Mexico is not as prosperous as

California or Texas. It has a great climate, looks like California or Texas. You wonder why tons of Americans don't spill over the border looking for cheap housing in a California/Texas like environment.

And the Mexican government's version of the INS couldn't handle it worth a damn.

[Solon]

33. 2 Answers to that question...

First, Corrupt 1 party rule for the past 60 years. Then, finally, after that power structure was broken, they were already beholden to yet another corrupt structure that turns their economy into the factory floor for the United States and Canada, so now they are stuck.

[Solon]

4. I'm kickin' this, haven't even gotten a decent criticism yet. n/t

[mike_c]

5. adding another kick-- with all the vitriol spewed in the immigration...

...threads, it's hard to believe no one has anything to say about this post. Here's a thread that proposes a real political agenda that is not xenophobic, racist, or concerned with bashing poor working people.

Immigrants are not the problem. Poor people are not the problem. The market economy in human labor IS a part of the problem, as is exploitation as a normal component of doing business. As liberals, we should adopt an agenda to address those problems rather than target the victims.

Sorry Solon-- I can't criticize your proposal! I wish I could recommend it for the greatest page again! :toast:

[B Calm]

6. Kicked and recommended!

[struggle4progress]

7. Companies shouldn't be allowed to hire "replacement workers" ..

.. during strikes ...

[readmoreoften]

8. As someone who is being replaced while on strike.

I say, hell yes to that!

K&R'd

[Solon]

10. That's the reason for the worker's council...

A Union elected body that is IN CHARGE of regulating Corporations, think about that for a minute.

[hippywife]

9. Amen, Solon!

I was just trying to explain this to a bunch of xenophobic, isolationist the other day. We helped create the problems that people on both sides of the border suffer. This problem needs a humanitarian approach like the one you've outlined.

This was a big part of Kucinich's platform which was one of the many reasons I signed on to his campaign.

[Solon]

11. Glad you agree...

We need to STOP demonizing people that literally have no choice in many cases, I mean, what are we to do, hope they die, instead. I think the all or nothing terms used in this debate are simply too ridiculous to ponder seriously. Yeah, great, make Illegal Immigration a Felony, and we will have even MORE people thrown in prison that are non-violent offenders and it will be a waste of taxpayers money, just like the Drug War. The kicker is that it wouldn't really solve a damned thing, these people already risk death in many cases, do we really think they will balk at getting thrown in jail?

And getting deported only restarts the cycle, why not work on SOLUTIONS rather than just blowing hot air. That's all I propose, a SOLUTION that supports workers on both sides of the border.

[SoCalDem]

12. All that needs to happen is for laws already on the books to be enforced

and to beef them up a bit..

the employers who hire with a wink and a nod, KNOW they are hiring undocumented workers.

I would prefer hiring MORE investigators and having them regualrly pay unscheduled visits to employers..

1st offense $50K per worker AND a mandatory jail sentence for manager/owner 6 months

2nd offense...confiscation of the company & assets of owners/managers..sold at auction (just like the drug dealers' stuff) AND a 1 year jail term.

There would not BE a 3rd offense.

If companies were truly afraid to hire undocumented workers, the word would go out, and people would stop coming.

THIS would apply to ALL of them..nannies, cooks, gardeners, maids.. You name it..

They are hired as a disposable workforce. and as a wedge to get legal workers to accept less money or benefits, lest they be laid off and replaced..

[Solon]

13. That's like putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound...

In other words, it will accomplish jack shit, in the LONG run. That is what I'm talking about, the long run, and solutions, you think that people in Mexico that have NO prospects for employment or improving their lot in their own country will sit on their laurels and watch their children starve?

Your proposal would be good, as a first step, but is not an end all, be all solution.

[SoCalDem]

14. I realize it's not THE solution, but should be a PART of the solution

The employers must FEAR retribution for breaking the laws.. Right now the only people running much risk are the workers.

Pressure MUST be placed on Mexico too. they have no reason to spend much on the peasants, because they can rely on a steady stream of them leaving Mexico.

Mexico is NOT a poor country. It has greedy leaders..

[Solon]

15. What can Mexico do though?

When a Mexican farmer is forced off his land because he can't compete with US subsidized agriculture, then is forced to send his kids to a US factory within his nation, that THEN moves the factory to Thailand because its cheaper, destroying the ONLY means of income for his family. What can the Mexican Government do?

[SoCalDem]

16. Mexico needs to figure that out.. The country has many resources and

there's no reason they should run that country like Exxon.. Countries have a responsibility to their citizens.

[Solon]

17. Their resources are foriegn owned, so try again. n/t

[SoCalDem]

19. Too tired.. Thankfully, I am not in charge of foreign policy

Perhaps through trial and error, a solution will be reached. Probably not in my lifetime..

Soon, we Boomers will exit, stage left, and there will be plenty of "room" for all comers :hi:

[tkmorris]

18. Umm, how does ditching NAFTA reduce ..........

How does ditching NAFTA reduce illegal immigration again?

The biggest problem with NAFTA is that it made it easier to move jobs that were once typically performed by Americans south of the border, thus INCREASING the ability of Mexicans to find work within Mexico. It was harmful to us here in the United States, especially those in manufacturing and those sorts of service jobs that could be done from a more remote location, but it did nothing as far as I can see to increase illegal immigration northward. If anything, the net effect was to decrease it, though clearly that effect was negligible.

Sorry, I'm not seeing your point here. Maybe it's just that I'm tired.

[Solon]

20. OK, a couple of things...

First, Mexico is feeling the outsourcing pinch the same as us, oddly enough. That should be a given, they are a member of the WTO same as we are, and so Both the US and Mexico suffer from outsourcing. The difference is that usually for the United States, in most areas, it was a domestic company that moves the factory, in Mexico its a US or Canadian company that closes up the factories there and moves them elsewhere. Now, this has two effects, first, the insourcing to begin with wasn't all it was cracked up to be, many domestic Mexican businesses closed shop when they couldn't compete with larger American businesses. This destroyed the local economy entirely, and when the ONLY source for income leaves, that would be the American companies moving to cheaper pastures, the Mexican laborers are left with literally nothing.

Another example, without the ability to protect their agriculture, Mexican farmers were forced to sell off their farms at well below market value, to US agri-corps. This is partially due to US farm subsidies, which flooded the Mexican market with cheap maize and other crops that Mexican farmers couldn't compete with. So that's another sector of their economy that was destroyed. Now, considering that Immigration, both legal and illegal, from Mexico, increased by 8% from 1990-2000 doesn't say to me that NAFTA was sucessful.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back1203.html

[hippywife]

21. Not to mention that

the flooding of the Mexican market with U.S. subsidized corn could have some scarier effect that people haven't even begun to consider:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0423-02.htm

Cheap American corn in Mexico threatens all corn — Zea mays itself — and by extension all of us who have come to depend on this plant. The small Mexican farmers who grow corn in southern Mexico are responsible for maintaining the genetic diversity of the species. While American farmers raise a small handful of genetically nearly identical hybrids, Mexico's small farmers still grow hundreds of different, open-pollinated varieties, commonly called landraces.

This genetic diversity, the product of 10,000 years of human-maize co-evolution, represents some of the most precious and irreplaceable information on Earth, as we were reminded in 1970 when a fungus decimated the American corn crop and genes for resistance were found in a landrace in southern Mexico. These landraces will survive only as long as the farmers who cultivate them do. The cheap corn that is throwing these farmers off their land threatens to dry up the pool of genetic diversity on which the future of the species depends.

Perhaps from a strictly economic point of view, free trade in a commodity like corn appears eminently rational. But look at the same phenomenon from a biological point of view and it begins to look woefully shortsighted, if not mad.

[Solon]

22. I didn't even touch on the Agri-corps dominating worldwide food production

and the effects this has had worldwide. Look up the decimation of Rice strains in India, over 300 at one point, now down to about 70 or so. We are quickly turning our crops into Monocultures, and that's just bad from a food security and ecology.

[hippywife]

23. You know it all goes to prove

that the one thing they started teaching us from a young age is correct: Treat others as you wish to be treated. That's it in a nutshell. That alone would solve many of the problems we all face and keep all of this from coiming back to bite us in the ass one day. When you screw people over, there's no denying that one day it is going to come back to bite you. If we all just treated people fairly and humanely, so many of the problems and issues would not exist.

We all do well when we ALL do well is how I look at it.

[Solon]

24. Hey, look at this link...

http://www.elliottsamazing.com/kindergarden.html

[hippywife]

26. Yep. If everyone would

just abide by a few simple rules (and they are so simple and so easy!) it would be a different place altogether. You'd a'thunk we'd all have evolved to this point by now but apparently not. Sometimes I think mankind is just bent on total destruction.

It really is easier to do what is right.

[Jigarotta]

25. excellent post, and if I may add this:

Fences and Windows - Naomi Klein (what today's march means)
Edited on Mon May-01-06 04:31 PM by Jigarotta
(2002)
Higher Fences at the Border
Migrant workers know that as barriers to trade come down, barriers to people go up.
===
snips
The truth is that mass migration is not a form of homeland shopping: it is the flip side of free trade policies our government so actively pursues. People don't mortgage their futures to get on rusty boats because they are in the market for something a little more upscale. They do it because changes at home have left them without a job, without land, without choices.
===
In an Orwellian twist, corporatiions have seamlessly adopted the language of human rights: Wal-Mart and Exxon, trading cargo across borders, demand 'fair and equal treatment' and 'non-discrimination clauses.' Meanwhile, humans are increasingly treated like cargo, with no rights at all.
===
Part of the confusion of what we mean when we use the term 'globalization' stems from the fact that this particular economic model has a tendency to treat trade not as one part of internationalism but the overarching infrastructure of it. It gradually swallows everything else - culture, human rights, the environment, democracy itself - inside the perimeters of trade.
+++
I post this in support of today's march.
The Other Superpower, the people, are waking from their slumber.

[treestar]

27. Easier - a company can hire whoever they want and the government

just gives them a working visa. Eliminates tons of bureaucracy. Good for the economy, as companies can now grow and hire even more people, probably mostly Americans.

If it initially drives down wages that is offset by the benefit that there is now no motive for going "under the table" or paying beneath the minimum wage, driving up wages in the long run. Face it, the Mexicans are willing to work for less because it is the most they can get. If the employer could make the Mexican legal the employer wouldn't have the same excuse that he couldn't get anybody, and he would have to pay FICA and withhold taxes and follow all those other laws, etc.

As to the alien, they could only become a permanent resident if they stayed in the US on their worker visa for a good long time, say 7 years. Then anyone who works in the US for two years and then goes to another country loses that track. The current law puts those people through a cumbersome green card process when a green card is really only useful to use on people who want to eventually become citizens.

Another benefit is other countries may do the same thing (many already do, but get more restrictive in a backlash to the US). That opens up more jobs to Americans, both just jobs abroad and markets abroad.

[Solon]

29. Too simple to be good...

The problem is that the INS would be too busy at tracking these work visas, are they limited, unlimited, in time or job description. If your company is downsized, do you get kicked out of the country, that type of thing. Not to mention that it isn't reciprocal, with my idea, as an example, bi-lingual and Multi-lingual workers would be in great demand in all three nations. To give a specific example, I wouldn't mind being an ESL teacher in Mexico City or one of the smaller towns in Mexico, so this not only benefits Mexicans, it could benefit all. Pretty plain and simple there. Same for many other jobs as well, both skilled and unskilled.

[lumberjack_jeff]

28. Can't find work citizens?

Become an "undocumented convenience store shopper".



"illegal" has such negative connotations.

[treestar]

30. Can any citizen of any of the 3 countries work in any of the 3

countries or do they have to stay in their intial country?

[Solon]

32. That was number five in my "Worker's Bill of Rights"....

5. Right to free movement within the borders of all Signatory bodies, if you can get a good job in Mexico city, or Ontario, and you aren't a citizen in either country, you can work their if job is available.

Granted I misspelled There, but its is there, in black and white.

[treestar]

34. LOL, I am reading challenged.

That would help the flow of labor to where it is most needed.

(We kind of have that with Canada, but it is restricted to a list of occupations in NAFTA).