Castro sends message of stability for Cubans

[madokie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/cuba_castro

By VANESSA ARRINGTON, Associated Press Writer




HAVANA - Fidel Castro sought to reassure Cubans after intestinal surgery forced him to temporarily cede power to his brother for the first time in 47 years, releasing a statement saying his health is stable, his spirits good and the defense of the island guaranteed

Raul Castro, meanwhile, has remained silent and out of sight, issuing no statements of his own.

"The important thing is that in the country everything is going perfectly well, and will continue to do so," said the statement by the elder Castro, who temporarily handed power to his brother on Monday night after surgery.

Castro, 79, did acknowledge the operation was serious, saying "I cannot make up positive news." But he said his health was "stable" and "as for my spirits, I feel perfectly fine," according to the statement read on government television Tuesday night.

[RagingInMiami]

1. It was all a bluff

And the Miami Cubans fell for it. Dumb asses.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. They kinda made asses of themselves over this...

They had a mini-Mardi Gras, only to find out Castro didn't die.:rofl:

[RagingInMiami]

4. They're like Charlie Brown when it comes to kicking the football

And Castro is like Lucy, who keeps pulling the ball away, content to watch Charlie Brown sail through the air and land on his ass.

[malaise]

5. They never fail

to expose themselves as genuine pond scum.

[NewSpectrum]

7. Miami Cubans are pond scum for opposing Castro?

That's a little harsh don't you think?

[manic expression]

8. Yes, it's quite accurate

Miami Cubans are bullies, reactionaries and a bunch of jerks. They've been blackmailing politicians for decades, they want to inflict as many problems on the country as they can, truth be damned. They devour anyone who disagrees with them, they have no shame, they have no sanity.

Read up on them and their pathetic shenanigans sometime.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SidDithers]

12. Enjoy your stay...

:hi:

Sid

[NewSpectrum]

14. "Enjoy your stay."

????????

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. It means your transparent.

Silly NewSpectrum.

[NewSpectrum]

19. Transparent?

...

[Balbus]

40. They are insinuating that you are a troll from possibly an alternate

political site known as "free republic." Since to accuse someone of that is against the board rules, they try to circumvent those rules by using code words such as "enjoy your stay" or "transparent" to let others on this board know what they think about you and your posts. Silly? Yes. But that's what it means.

[Judi Lynn]

41. Others already know. We don't signal others.

Belligerance, hostility from the posters identify them to everyone here.

You don't need to interpret for them.

Anyone who keeps repeating what other people post incredulously is not here to communicate.

[NewSpectrum]

42. I am definitely not from Free Republic......... that is for sure...

I am very much a Democrat and I find it shocking that because I don't like Castro people would insinuate something else. I know dozens of Democrats in real life who despise Bush and almost never vote Republican yet would never launch into this type of defense of Castro. I find this situation astonishing.

[manic expression]

13. I answered your question

you obviously don't know much about what the Cuban exiles have been doing for decades. If you did, you'd agree with me, but you don't, so you haven't.

And on Communism, the fact is that Eastern Europe was imperialism, which is wrong under any flag. Cuba, however, is not, and if you knew the first thing about the country, you'd know that the revolution has brought justice and equity and more to the island. Do you know how Cuba ranks in literacy? Infant mortality? Do you? No, you don't, so stop spewing your delusion because your views have been shown to be as ignorant as they are insipid. Thanks for playing.

[NewSpectrum]

17. Cuban exiles have seen the difference.......

.... between what they have in America and what their countrymen have in Cuba and have concluded that the system they live under in America affords them much more freedom as well as better economic opportunities. They therefore draw the conclusion that Castro must go. Comparing what they had under Batista to the very little progress they achieved under Castro is very deceptive on your part. It would be like saying that because Bush is a bad President today, we should replace him with his far worse polar opposite from the other side of the spectrum.

Whatever label or excuse you want to make for Communism in Eastern Europe, the fact is Castro was deeply connected too, you can can even argue an extension of a very similiar global strategy. While the Soviets were plotting the takeover of the rest of Europe (and parts of Asia and the Middle East), Castro was exporting troops and revolution throughout Latin America and Africa. The eventual shared goal being the collapse of the West.

[manic expression]

28. Cuban exiles are reactionaries

The people in Cuba know what they have in Cuba, and they have concluded that it affords them a society which provides for the people. They have concluded that they can control their future, they have concluded that it is something they support.

"...very little progress they achieved under Castro..."

You are really just clueless when it comes to Cuba, aren't you? Check the end of my post for a few facts.

The exiles, however, will stop at nothing to "take back" what was "taken" from them or their parents. They don't like the revolution because the oligarchy was dismantled, the feudal lords were removed from their seats of power and wealth. They want to suck the blood of Cuba once again, and that is why they are so fervently against Castro and the Cuban government. Your attempt to rationalize this delusion is laughable and ridiculous.

No, the FACT is that Eastern Europe was under Russian imperialism, and imperialism sucks no matter who does it. Don't doge my points, address them. Cuba and Russia were trading partners because Uncle Sam refused to let the country trade with the world. Since the US was so intent on laying siege to the nation, it was left with Russia as the only possible trading partner. Your assertion that there was some "plot" to take over the west is now known to be unsupported, McCarthy would agree with you, but that's about it. Cuba fought against apartheid forces in Angola and against fuedalism in Bolivia, all good causes that had little to do with your deranged claims. Cuba collapsed the reactionary exploitationists in Cuba, and they wanted to help out other Latin American countries do the same; the US, on the other hand, propped up the worst of them, massacred natives in Guatemala, murdered Father Romero in El Salvador, toppled Salvador Allende in Chile all for greed and continued injustice.

Here are those facts, you know, the truth about Cuba (not RW lies); read up, you need it:

Before the 1959 revolution
• 75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
• More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
• 85% had no inside running water.
• 91% had no electricity.
• There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
• More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
• Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
• The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
• 45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
• 25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
• 1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
• 27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
• Racial discrimination was widespread.
• The public school system had deteriorated badly.
• Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.
• Police brutality and torture were common.

___



After the 1959 revolution

“It is in some sense almost an anti-model,” according to Eric Swanson, the programme manager for the Bank’s Development Data Group, which compiled the WDI, a tome of almost 400 pages covering scores of economic, social, and environmental indicators.

Indeed, Cuba is living proof in many ways that the Bank’s dictum that economic growth is a pre-condition for improving the lives of the poor is over-stated, if not, downright wrong.

-

It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.

By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;

Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.

Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.

“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”

Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.

“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”

It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.

There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.

The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.

“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”

Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.

[otherlander]

47. So now everyone has free health care and education...

but at what cost?

[NewSpectrum]

48. I didn't dodge your point.... you ignored mine....

You keep using the over throw of Batista to justify an even harsher dictatorship. When Castro was fighting Batista many Americans were sympathethic, including the New York Times. Castro in the beginning claimed he wasn't a Communist and duped many Cubans and Americans into believing in him, until he seized power and his goals became more clear. My present day example was that even though most Americans don't like Bush they wouldn't want to replace him with another extreme who is going to rule for the next 40 years.

BBC - 1961: Victorious Castro bans elections

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/1/newsid_2479000/2479867.stm

"Cuba's prime minister, Dr Fidel Castro, has proclaimed Cuba a socialist nation and abolished elections.Hundreds of thousands of Cubans attending a May Day parade in the capital Havana roared with approval when their leader announced:

"The revolution has no time for elections. There is no more democratic government in Latin America than the revolutionary government."

Dr Castro, who came to power in January 1959 after the overthrow of dictator Fulgencio Batista y Zaldívar, criticised America's fear of a new socialist republic so near US territory.He said: "If Mr Kennedy does not like Socialism, we do not like imperialism. We do not like capitalism."

"We have as much right to complain about the existence of a capitalist imperialist regime 90 miles from our coast as he has to complain about a socialist regime 90 miles from his coast."

Dr Castro also announced that foreign Roman Catholic priests would be expelled and all Roman Catholic and private schools would be nationalised.

Cubans had reason to celebrate this May Day. Last month Castro's troops foiled an attempted invasion of the island by Cuban exiles supported by the USA. The invasion force of 1,300 men landed at Bahía de Cochinos (Bay of Pigs) but was rapidly defeated.The days that followed saw thousands of anti-Castro rebels confined in makeshift prisons and at least 600 executed. The Cuban secret service, G2, is still interrogating possible "counter-revolutionaries".

According to BBC correspondent Erik de Mauny who arrived in Miami today by plane with Cuban refugees, Castro's revolution seems to be popular with the peasants if not with the wealthier classes who have seen their land and property confiscated.

Our correspondent says the failed invasion has strengthened Castro's hold on power and could inspire socialist rebels in other parts of the Americas. "The Castro regime has created a model to which many famished eyes throughout Latin America are inevitably drawn," he reports."

[NewSpectrum]

51. The previous article talks about Castro in 1961

Of course since then, he has realized banning elections is basically indefensible, so he holds phony rigged elections instead (zero improvement):

BBC - January 13, 1998
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/46399.stm

"The Cuban government is reporting a 98 turnout for the the country's elections - even athough there was no choice of candidates.
The President of the National Electoral Commission Manuel de Jesus Pirez told a news conference that 7.93 million people voted on Sunday out of a total of 8.06 million eligible voters. Some 5.01% of the votes were not valid because they were blank or annulled.
All 601 candidates proposed for the national assembly were elected unopposed.
Electors were also asked to endorse a list of 1,192 candidates for provincial assemblies. Again no alternative to the ruling Communist Party was on offer.
The massive voter turnout follows a pattern of very high participation in Cuba's single party elections. Voting is not mandatory in Cuba, but it is presented by authorities as a moral and patriotic duty.

One person, one vote, one candidate

There are no known opponents of Castro or the government among the newly-elected candidates, who were proposed by special candidacy commissions formed by members of pro-government organisations representing farmers, students and other social groups.
Despite the lack of choice, the Cuban government mounted a huge campaign urging people to vote.
With the Pope's visit only days away, Havana is already filled with US media, so the election was marketed as a means of demonstrating unity against the United States and its economic blockade of Cuba.
Cuban media reflected the view of President Castro that Cuban democracy is the most perfect in the world and a system other countries should emulate.
Reports often contrasted Cuban elections with the United States. Cuban television is even showing the US feature film "Candidates", starring Robert Redford, which depicts corruption in the US electoral system.

There has been considerable coverage of the financial crisis in the Far East, with predictions that capitalism has no future.
After casting his own vote President Castro hailed the high turnout. He said his country was not changing but was reaffirming its socialist identity in a predominantly capitalist world.
"It's the world that's changing, not Cuba," the 71-year-old Cuban leader told reporters.
A BBC correspondent in Havana said that despite the turnout, President Fidel Castro is coming under increasing pressure from other Latin American leaders to allow greater pluralism."

[NewSpectrum]

52. More on the internal repression and phony political process in Cuba

BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/983786.stm

"Court of a monarch

While there's no official personality cult, everyone knows exactly who's boss.
Cuban politics works almost like the court of a monarch. Rival factions form around a host of issues. Within the court, stars rise and stars fall. But the one pulling all the strings is Mr Castro.
He has never allowed opposition. The state has a spectacular system of internal control. It's far more subtle than the brutal military regimes I saw in Latin America in the 1980s. But it's more powerful, controlling so many aspects of daily life.
People become dependent on the state. Cubans complain constantly about everything. But it is never worth their while to take that to active opposition.
It is a great irony that in a country fed daily with rhetoric about revolutionary struggle, one of the most common phrases is "No coje lucha" - don't struggle over it.
Not surprisingly the dissident movement is small and divided - unable to agree about tactics, with no public voice and paranoid about spies. They face constant harassment, and often jail, but always with an escape valve allowing them to leave the island.

International press monitored

The state has an information network reaching down to every street - and, as I discovered, it is certainly monitoring the international press.
In my first six months in Havana, I was detained by the police three times, usually for filming where they didn't want me to. Each time a jovial young man came to bail me out with profuse apologies and a slap on the back.
After the third time, he asked me if I wanted to meet to chat. Hoping he might be a good source of information, I agreed. But to my questions, I got either the party line or non-committal answers. He also got little out of me.
His only request was that I didn't tell any other journalist of our meetings. They might misinterpret my meeting.
At the third meeting, I could tell we were being taped because he started waxing far too lyrical about Cuba's political system. We got onto the subject of the United States interests section, and he came out with a blatant request. Perhaps I could on a regular basis share information about what US diplomats were saying and thinking, he asked.
I rapidly told him that was not my job. We'll get you to change your mind, he said cheerfully. But it was the last of our meetings.
Afterwards I began to wonder how many of my colleagues had been recruited. When I told a Cuban friend, he laughed. That's what everyone here's thinking, he said."

[Judi Lynn]

23. Nice dodge by hiding in a personal attack. That is a failure to

observe D.U. rules, by the way.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Let me offer an opportunity for the visitor to get informed:

This is what the violent element of the Cuban right-wing reactionaries have to represent them for their time spent here since arriving:

1968 From MacArthur Causeway, pediatrician Orlando Bosch fires bazooka at a Polish freighter. (City of Miami later declares "Orlando Bosch Day." Federal agents will jail him in 1988.)

1972 Julio Iglesias, performing at a local nightclub, says he wouldn't mind "singing in front of Cubans." Audience erupts in anger. Singer requires police escort. Most radio stations drop Iglesias from playlists. One that doesn't, Radio Alegre, receives bomb threats.

1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba.

1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

1974 Several small Cuban businesses, citing threats, stop selling Replica.

1974 Three bombs explode near a Spanish-language radio station.

1974 Hector Diaz Limonta and Arturo Rodriguez Vives murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1975 Luciano Nieves murdered after advocating peaceful coexistence with Cuba.

1975 Another bomb damages Replica's office.

1976 Rolando Masferrer and Ramon Donestevez murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1976 Car bomb blows off legs of WQBA-AM news director Emilio Milian after he publicly condemns exile violence.

1977 Juan José Peruyero murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1979 Cuban film Memories of Underdevelopment interrupted by gunfire and physical violence instigated by two exile groups.

1979 Bomb discovered at Padron Cigars, whose owner helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1979 Bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Powerful anti-personnel bomb discovered at American Airways Charter, which arranges flights to Cuba.

1981 Bomb explodes at Mexican Consulate on Brickell Avenue in protest of relations with Cuba.

1981 Replica's office again damaged by a bomb.

1982 Two outlets of Hispania Interamericana, which ships medicine to Cuba, attacked by gunfire.

1982 Bomb explodes at Venezuelan Consulate in downtown Miami in protest of relations with Cuba.

1982 Bomb discovered at Nicaraguan Consulate.

1982 Miami Mayor Maurice Ferre defends $10,000 grant to exile commando group Alpha 66 by noting that the organization "has never been accused of terrorist activities inside the United States."

1983 Another bomb discovered at Replica.

1983 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1983 Bomb explodes at Paradise International, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1983 Bomb explodes at Little Havana office of Continental National Bank, one of whose executives, Bernardo Benes, helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1983 Miami City Commissioner Demetrio Perez seeks to honor exile terrorist Juan Felipe de la Cruz, accidentally killed while assembling a bomb. (Perez is now a member of the Miami-Dade County Public School Board and owner of the Lincoln-Martí private school where Elian Gonzalez is enrolled.)

1983 Gunfire shatters windows of three Little Havana businesses linked to Cuba.

1986 South Florida Peace Coalition members physically attacked in downtown Miami while demonstrating against Nicaraguan contra war.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cuba Envios, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cubanacan, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Car belonging to Bay of Pigs veteran is firebombed.

1987 Bomb explodes at Machi Viajes a Cuba, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes outside Va Cuba, which ships packages to Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes at Miami Cuba, which ships medical supplies to Cuba.

1988 Bomb threat against Iberia Airlines in protest of Spain's relations with Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes outside Cuban Museum of Art and Culture after auction of paintings by Cuban artists.

1988 Bomb explodes outside home of Maria Cristina Herrera, organizer of a conference on U.S.-Cuba relations.

1988 Bomb threat against WQBA-AM after commentator denounces Herrera bombing.

1988 Bomb threat at local office of Immigration and Naturalization Service in protest of terrorist Orlando Bosch being jailed.

1988 Bomb explodes near home of Griselda Hidalgo, advocate of unrestricted travel to Cuba.

1988 Bomb damages Bele Cuba Express, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Another bomb discovered at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Two bombs explode at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1990 Another, more powerful, bomb explodes outside the Cuban Museum of Art and Culture.

1991 Using crowbars and hammers, exile crowd rips out and urinates on Calle Ocho "Walk of Fame" star of Mexican actress Veronica Castro, who had visited Cuba.

1992 Union Radio employee beaten and station vandalized by exiles looking for Francisco Aruca, who advocates an end to U.S. embargo.

1992 Cuban American National Foundation mounts campaign against the Miami Herald, whose executives then receive death threats and whose newsracks are defaced and smeared with feces.

1992 Americas Watch releases report stating that hard-line Miami exiles have created an environment in which "moderation can be a dangerous position."

1993 Inflamed by Radio Mambí commentator Armando Perez-Roura, Cuban exiles physically assault demonstrators lawfully protesting against U.S. embargo. Two police officers injured, sixteen arrests made. Miami City Commissioner Miriam Alonso then seeks to silence anti-embargo demonstrators: "We have to look at the legalities of whether the City of Miami can prevent them from expressing themselves."

1994 Human Rights Watch/Americas Group issues report stating that Miami exiles do not tolerate dissident opinions, that Spanish-language radio promotes aggression, and that local government leaders refuse to denounce acts of intimidation.

1994 Two firebombs explode at Replica magazine's office.

1994 Bomb threat to law office of Magda Montiel Davis following her videotaped exchange with Fidel Castro.

1996 Music promoter receives threatening calls, cancels local appearance of Cuba's La Orquesta Aragon.

1996 Patrons attending concert by Cuban jazz pianist Gonzalo Rubalcaba physically assaulted by 200 exile protesters. Transportation for exiles arranged by Dade County Commissioner Javier Souto.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Little Havana's Centro Vasco restaurant preceding concert by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1996 Arson committed at Tu Familia Shipping, which ships packages to Cuba.

1997 Bomb threats, death threats received by radio station WRTO-FM following its short-lived decision to include in its playlist songs by Cuban musicians.

1998 Bomb threat empties concert hall at MIDEM music conference during performance by 91-year-old Cuban musician Compay Segundo.

1998 Bomb threat received by Amnesia nightclub in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban musician Orlando "Maraca" Valle.

1998 Firebomb explodes at Amnesia nightclub preceding performance by Cuban singer Manolín.

1999 Violent protest at Miami Arena performance of Cuban band Los Van Van leaves one person injured, eleven arrested.

1999 Bomb threat received by Seville Hotel in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes. Hotel cancels concert.

January 26, 2000 Outside Miami Beach home of Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, protester displays sign reading, "Stop the deaths at sea. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.

April 11, 2000 Outside home of Elian Gonzalez's Miami relatives, radio talk show host Scot Piasant of Portland, Oregon, displays T-shirt reading, "Send the boy home" and "A father's rights," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.
(snip/)

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2000-04-20/mullin.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The break-off point in 2000 occurs because that's the year the article was published.

[Judi Lynn]

9. And violent pond scum at that.They have a 45+ year record to prove it. n/t

[NewSpectrum]

11. "And violent pond scum at that"

........ and Castro must be a pacifist angel.......... naaaahhhh, no violence emanating from that man.

[manic expression]

15. They are

and what country has Cuba recently invaded? Well?

[NewSpectrum]

18. Cuba lost it's big bad old sponsor the Soviet Union.......

..... so they haven't been able to afford starting, supplying, financing directly and indirectly proxy wars throughout Latin America and Africa. If you knew YOUR history of the Communist regime in Cuba YOU wouldn't be asking that stupid question.

[Judi Lynn]

21. What proxy war did they initiate in Latin America? Got any sources?

What "proxy war" did Cuba conduct in Africa?

Are you referring to Angola? That wouldn't have been a proxy war, would it?

Here's some literature you might want to scan on Angola:

SECRET CUBAN DOCUMENTS ON HISTORY OF AFRICA INVOLVEMENT
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 67
Edited by Peter Kornbluh

~snip~
Conflicting Missions also argues that Secretary Kissinger's account of the US role in Angola, most recently repeated in the third volume of his memoirs, is misleading. Testifying before Congress in 1976, Kissinger stated "We had no foreknowledge of South Africa's intentions, and in no way cooperated militarily." In Years of Renewal Dr. Kissinger also denied that the United States and South Africa had collaborated in the Angolan conflict; Gleijeses' research demonstrates that they did. The book quotes Kissinger aide Joseph Sisco conceding that the Ford administration "certainly did not discourage" South Africa's intervention, and presents evidence that the CIA helped the South Africans ferry arms to key battlefronts. Contrary to what Kissinger alleges in his memoirs, the first Cuban military advisers did not arrive in Angola until late August 1975, and the Cubans did not participate in the fighting until late October, after South Africa had invaded. The book also reproduces portions of a declassified memorandum of conversation between Kissinger and Chinese leader Teng Hsiao-p'ing to show that China had refused U.S. entreaties to continue participating in Angola because of South Africa's involvement, not because the U.S. Congress refused to allocate further funding for the covert war, as Kissinger claimed.

In assessing the motivations of Cuba's foreign policy, Cuba's relations with the Soviet Union, and the nature of the Communist threat in Africa, Gleijeses shows that CIA and INR intelligence reports were often sophisticated and insightful, unlike the decisions of the policymakers in Washington.
(snip/...)

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB67/index2.html

[NewSpectrum]

26. Angola may not deserve to be labeled a "proxy" war.....

It was more of a direct intervention on behalf of their marxist buddies in the MPLA. A much more direct and open method of helping to impose Communist dictatorship.

[Judi Lynn]

27. How did they impose dictatorship, and why does Nelson Mandela

continue to thank Cuba all these years later?

[High Plains]

The Cubans turned back the apartheid army of South Africa

at Cuito Cuanavale in 1976. I will always salute them for that.

[Judi Lynn]

36. As you have seen, the apartheid lovers still want their power back.

I hope they will be ground into the dust in time.

[madokie]

37. They will be, right almost always wins out in the end

[Judi Lynn]

38. I'd like to get your post notarized! I really hope you're right on this.nt

[manic expression]

29. Oh, really?

so supporting anti-apartheid forces in Angola is a "proxy war"? A small rebellion in Bolivia is a "proxy war"? If you knew anything, you wouldn't make stupid conclusions.

[NewSpectrum]

33. I'm sure Castro really cared about Blacks in South Africa.......

just because he was/is scum (Castro) doesn't mean he is totally stupid..... He knows how to exploit and hijack a cause. The Soviets and their buddies did so with many "national liberation" movements and unfortunately desperate people will sometimes reach out for any form of help.

[manic expression]

39. Cuba did care about the conflict

Nelson Mandela thanks the Cubans for what they did. Try to explain to him that they "hijacked" the cause. :eyes:

The Soviets supported movements simply to counter the US' support of oligarchies. It's called the cold war, the two powers would have supported anyone as long as it became a prick in the other's side. But of course, you can't understand history or anything like that, so your ignorance is not unexpected.

[Judi Lynn]

20. Maybe you'd like to name some instances and some links. n/t

[NewSpectrum]

22. "Maybe you'd like to name some instances and some links"

Some instances and links on how violent or repressive the Cuban regime has been? You have got to be kidding........ If this weren't such as serious subject ...... I would burst out laughing. I cannot believe what I just read.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Put up or shut up. n/t

[NewSpectrum]

30. Do you own research..........

or talk to someone who has experienced the repression...... may not be a good idea in your case..... some one who was previously locked up in one of Castro's prisons may not take to kindly to a Castro sypathizer and apologist.

I can put up some links later....... after I get over the shock of the deep denial that is going on in this exchange.....

Let me guess, you probably wont take any links from ...... let's say Human rights watch, or Amnesty International, or the BBC or any one who has fled from cuba, because they are probably all Batista supporters, right?

Your only credible sources would probably be Cuban Communist party officials? Anybody else would probably be a Cuban traitor, wouldn't they?

[Judi Lynn]

31. No, it's not my research that's needed to back up your claims.

That is YOUR responsibility, isn't it?

[NewSpectrum]

32. I told you where to start looking...........

Put some effort into it.......

Human Rights Watch
Amnesty International
BBC

It would be my responsibility and eventually I will get around to it for others surfing this thread....... but I am only stating what 90% of the world knows already without having to google it.... You want me to waste my afternoon trying to convince some delusional left over marxist (YOU) on Cuban Communist history? Besides I know you have read them before....... articles on Human Rights abuses in Cuba ..... I happen to have run across just now in other DU threads....... YOU SIMPLY INGNORED WHAT OTHERS PRESENTED TO YOU BEFORE. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE KIDDING?

[Judi Lynn]

34. Maybe a different wording would help: provide proof of your claims. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

35. Let me repeat myself after you repeat me: "and violent pond scum at that."

I think you may have overlooked SOME of the evidence, but not all, by far.

This is what the violent element of the Cuban right-wing reactionaries have to represent them for their time spent here since arriving:
1968 From MacArthur Causeway, pediatrician Orlando Bosch fires bazooka at a Polish freighter. (City of Miami later declares "Orlando Bosch Day." Federal agents will jail him in 1988.)

1972 Julio Iglesias, performing at a local nightclub, says he wouldn't mind "singing in front of Cubans." Audience erupts in anger. Singer requires police escort. Most radio stations drop Iglesias from playlists. One that doesn't, Radio Alegre, receives bomb threats.

1974 Exile leader José Elias de la Torriente murdered in his Coral Gables home after failing to carry out a planned invasion of Cuba.

1974 Bomb blast guts the office of Spanish-language magazine Replica.

1974 Several small Cuban businesses, citing threats, stop selling Replica.

1974 Three bombs explode near a Spanish-language radio station.

1974 Hector Diaz Limonta and Arturo Rodriguez Vives murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1975 Luciano Nieves murdered after advocating peaceful coexistence with Cuba.

1975 Another bomb damages Replica's office.

1976 Rolando Masferrer and Ramon Donestevez murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1976 Car bomb blows off legs of WQBA-AM news director Emilio Milian after he publicly condemns exile violence.



(Emilio Milian, on the ground, after being bombed)

1977 Juan José Peruyero murdered in internecine exile power struggles.

1979 Cuban film Memories of Underdevelopment interrupted by gunfire and physical violence instigated by two exile groups.

1979 Bomb discovered at Padron Cigars, whose owner helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1979 Bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1980 Powerful anti-personnel bomb discovered at American Airways Charter, which arranges flights to Cuba.

1981 Bomb explodes at Mexican Consulate on Brickell Avenue in protest of relations with Cuba.

1981 Replica's office again damaged by a bomb.

1982 Two outlets of Hispania Interamericana, which ships medicine to Cuba, attacked by gunfire.

1982 Bomb explodes at Venezuelan Consulate in downtown Miami in protest of relations with Cuba.

1982 Bomb discovered at Nicaraguan Consulate.

1982 Miami Mayor Maurice Ferre defends $10,000 grant to exile commando group Alpha 66 by noting that the organization "has never been accused of terrorist activities inside the United States."

1983 Another bomb discovered at Replica.

1983 Another bomb explodes at Padron Cigars.

1983 Bomb explodes at Paradise International, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1983 Bomb explodes at Little Havana office of Continental National Bank, one of whose executives, Bernardo Benes, helped negotiate release of 3600 Cuban political prisoners.

1983 Miami City Commissioner Demetrio Perez seeks to honor exile terrorist Juan Felipe de la Cruz, accidentally killed while assembling a bomb. (Perez is now a member of the Miami-Dade County Public School Board and owner of the Lincoln-Martí private school where Elian Gonzalez is enrolled.)

1983 Gunfire shatters windows of three Little Havana businesses linked to Cuba.

1986 South Florida Peace Coalition members physically attacked in downtown Miami while demonstrating against Nicaraguan contra war.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cuba Envios, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes at Cubanacan, which ships packages to Cuba.

1987 Car belonging to Bay of Pigs veteran is firebombed.

1987 Bomb explodes at Machi Viajes a Cuba, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1987 Bomb explodes outside Va Cuba, which ships packages to Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes at Miami Cuba, which ships medical supplies to Cuba.

1988 Bomb threat against Iberia Airlines in protest of Spain's relations with Cuba.

1988 Bomb explodes outside Cuban Museum of Art and Culture after auction of paintings by Cuban artists.

1988 Bomb explodes outside home of Maria Cristina Herrera, organizer of a conference on U.S.-Cuba relations.

1988 Bomb threat against WQBA-AM after commentator denounces Herrera bombing.

1988 Bomb threat at local office of Immigration and Naturalization Service in protest of terrorist Orlando Bosch being jailed.

1988 Bomb explodes near home of Griselda Hidalgo, advocate of unrestricted travel to Cuba.

1988 Bomb damages Bele Cuba Express, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Another bomb discovered at Almacen El Español, which ships packages to Cuba.

1989 Two bombs explode at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1990 Another, more powerful, bomb explodes outside the Cuban Museum of Art and Culture.

1991 Using crowbars and hammers, exile crowd rips out and urinates on Calle Ocho "Walk of Fame" star of Mexican actress Veronica Castro, who had visited Cuba.

1992 Union Radio employee beaten and station vandalized by exiles looking for Francisco Aruca, who advocates an end to U.S. embargo.

1992 Cuban American National Foundation mounts campaign against the Miami Herald, whose executives then receive death threats and whose newsracks are defaced and smeared with feces.

1992 Americas Watch releases report stating that hard-line Miami exiles have created an environment in which "moderation can be a dangerous position."

1993 Inflamed by Radio Mambí commentator Armando Perez-Roura, Cuban exiles physically assault demonstrators lawfully protesting against U.S. embargo. Two police officers injured, sixteen arrests made. Miami City Commissioner Miriam Alonso then seeks to silence anti-embargo demonstrators: "We have to look at the legalities of whether the City of Miami can prevent them from expressing themselves."

1994 Human Rights Watch/Americas Group issues report stating that Miami exiles do not tolerate dissident opinions, that Spanish-language radio promotes aggression, and that local government leaders refuse to denounce acts of intimidation.

1994 Two firebombs explode at Replica magazine's office.

1994 Bomb threat to law office of Magda Montiel Davis following her videotaped exchange with Fidel Castro.

1996 Music promoter receives threatening calls, cancels local appearance of Cuba's La Orquesta Aragon.

1996 Patrons attending concert by Cuban jazz pianist Gonzalo Rubalcaba physically assaulted by 200 exile protesters. Transportation for exiles arranged by Dade County Commissioner Javier Souto.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Little Havana's Centro Vasco restaurant preceding concert by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes.

1996 Firebomb explodes at Marazul Charters, which arranges travel to Cuba.

1996 Arson committed at Tu Familia Shipping, which ships packages to Cuba.

1997 Bomb threats, death threats received by radio station WRTO-FM following its short-lived decision to include in its playlist songs by Cuban musicians.

1998 Bomb threat empties concert hall at MIDEM music conference during performance by 91-year-old Cuban musician Compay Segundo.

1998 Bomb threat received by Amnesia nightclub in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban musician Orlando "Maraca" Valle.

1998 Firebomb explodes at Amnesia nightclub preceding performance by Cuban singer Manolín.

1999 Violent protest at Miami Arena performance of Cuban band Los Van Van leaves one person injured, eleven arrested.

1999 Bomb threat received by Seville Hotel in Miami Beach preceding performance by Cuban singer Rosita Fornes. Hotel cancels concert.

January 26, 2000 Outside Miami Beach home of Sister Jeanne O'Laughlin, protester displays sign reading, "Stop the deaths at sea. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.

April 11, 2000 Outside home of Elian Gonzalez's Miami relatives, radio talk show host Scot Piasant of Portland, Oregon, displays T-shirt reading, "Send the boy home" and "A father's rights," then is physically assaulted by nearby exile crowd before police come to rescue.
(snip/)

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2000-04-20/mullin.html

[NewSpectrum]

43. Don't give me lectures about ignoring evidence........

You are definitely not in the position to be lecturing others about what the Cuban regime has been like.

There are approximately 1 million miami cubans and you cite the actions of a few overzealous ones who perhaps went to far with a the wrong tactics. How many thousands of people did Castro's regime execute (not to mention the tens of thousands he imprisoned)? How many bullets, munitions, bombs, etc did Fidel and his cronies expend for their failed ideology?

In one of your examples you use Human Rights Watch as a source:

"1994 Human Rights Watch/Americas Group issues report stating that Miami exiles do not tolerate dissident opinions, that Spanish-language radio promotes aggression, and that local government leaders refuse to denounce acts of intimidation. "

Maybe you would like to see what Human Rights Watch has to say about Cuba:

CUBA'S REPRESSIVE MACHINERY

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/

"Over the past forty years, Cuba has developed a highly effective machinery of repression. The denial of basic civil and political rights is written into Cuban law. In the name of legality, armed security forces, aided by state-controlled mass organizations, silence dissent with heavy prison terms, threats of prosecution, harassment, or exile. Cuba uses these tools to restrict severely the exercise of fundamental human rights of expression, association, and assembly. The conditions in Cuba's prisons are inhuman, and political prisoners suffer additional degrading treatment and torture. In recent years, Cuba has added new repressive laws and continued prosecuting nonviolent dissidents while shrugging off international appeals for reform and placating visiting dignitaries with occasional releases of political prisoners.

This report documents Cuba's failures to respect the civil and political rights enumerated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) as well as the international human rights and labor rights treaties it has ratified. It shows that neither Cuban law nor practice guarantees the fundamental rights enshrined in the Universal Declaration. Cuba's obligation to respect the declaration arises from its incorporation into the United Nations Charter, rendering all member states, including Cuba, subject to its provisions. The UDHR is widely recognized as customary international law. It is a basic yardstick to measure any country's human rights performance. Unfortunately, Cuba does not measure up"

[NewSpectrum]

44. More from Human Rights Watch......

Codifying Repression

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-03.htm#P642_91747

"The Cuban Criminal Code lies at the core of Cuba's repressive machinery, unabashedly criminalizing nonviolent dissent. With the Criminal Code in hand, Cuban officials have broad authority to repress peaceful government opponents. Cuba's criminal laws are designed to crush domestic dissent and keep the current government in power by tightly restricting the freedoms of speech, association, assembly, press, and movement.

Cuban authorities go through strained circumlocutions to deny the existence of political prisoners in Cuba. Despite admitting that Cuban law bars vocal opposition to Castro and other officials, Cuban Justice Minister Roberto Díaz Sotolongo claimed in an interview with Human Rights Watch that Cuba holds no political prisoners. He said that Cuban criminal laws only penalize conduct, not thought, and as an example, distinguished between the illegality of committing an overt act in the furtherance of a murder versus the legality of merely thinking about it.57 Yet numerous Cuban criminal provisions explicitly penalize the exercise of fundamental freedoms while others, which are so vaguely defined as to offer Cuban officials broad discretion in their interpretation, are often invoked to silence government critics.

Cuban authorities regularly refer to peaceful government opponents as "counterrevolutionaries." But Cuba's invocation of state security interests to control nonviolent dissent—for acts as innocuous as handing out "Down with Fidel" flyers—represents a clear abuse of authority. Under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights restrictions of fundamental rights are only permissable:

for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.58

Cuba's efforts to silence critics fall well outside these limits.

An international team of legal scholars, diplomats, and U.N. rights specialists, meeting at a 1995 conference in Johannesburg, South Africa, drafted a set of principles that provide further guidance regarding permissable justifications for restricting rights. In particular, the Johannesburg Principles on National Security, Freedom of Expression and Access to Information distinguish between legitimateand illegitimate invocations of national security interests. Legitimate reasons to invoke national security interests are:

protecting a country's existence or its territorial integrity against the use or threat of force, or its capacity to respond to the threat or use of force, whether from an external source, such as a military threat, or an internal source, such as incitement to violent overthrow of the government.

In contrast, illegitimate justifications for invoking national security interests include:

protecting the government from embarrassment or exposure of wrongdoing, or to entrench a particular ideology, or to conceal information about the functioning of its public institutions, or to suppress industrial action.59

The Johannesburg Principles also specify that certain types of expression should always be protected, including criticizing or insulting the state and its symbols; advocating nonviolent change of government or government policies; and communicating human rights information.60 Cuba's state security laws violate these principles, illegitimately restricting fundamental rights both in the phrasing of the laws themselves and in their application against nonviolent dissidents.

The human cost of Cuba's repressive Criminal Code is high. Thousands of Cubans have faced wrongful prosecutions and imprisonment since the Castro government came into power in 1959. Despite growing international criticism of the Criminal Code, the Cuban government has roundly refused to reform its most offensive provisions and has continued arrests and prosecutions of government opponents, detailed below at Prosecutions Continue and Routine Repression.

In the past two years, Cuban prosecutors have relied heavily on the provisions against enemy propaganda and contempt for authority (desacato) to silence dissent. Prosecutors also have tried dissidents for defamation, resisting authority, association to commit criminal acts (asociación para delinquir), dangerousness (elestado peligroso), and other acts against state security (otros actos contra la seguridad del estado) during this period. Cuba's prisons confine scores of citizens convicted for the exercise of their fundamental rights, or in some cases, convicted without ever having committed a criminal act, for dangerousness. Cuba also detains nonviolent political prisoners who were tried for crimes against state security, such as enemy propaganda, rebellion, sabotage, and revealing secrets concerning state security. Individuals convicted of state security crimes for having exercised their fundamental rights often are serving sentences of ten to twenty years. Prisoners also are wrongfully serving sentences for contempt for authority and illegal exit. The government's inhuman treatment of its detainees, which in some cases rises to the level of torture, is detailed below at General Prison Conditions, Treatment of Political Prisoners, and Labor Rights: Prison Labor."

[NewSpectrum]

45. Cubans aren't even allowed to search the internet freely....

Cuba law tightens internet access
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3425425.stm


Cuba tightens its control over Internet
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/01/21/cuba.internet.reut/


"HAVANA, Cuba (Reuters) -- At a downtown Havana post office, Cubans line up for hours for their turn in the "surfing room."

When users get to one of the four computers, they can send and receive e-mail and surf an Intranet of Cuban Web sites, but access to the global Internet is barred.

Getting online is not easy in communist-run Cuba, where the state strictly controls all Web servers and recently announced plans to crack down on illegal Internet access. "

[NewSpectrum]

49. ....

.

[NewSpectrum]

53. Another article on the Communist regime's internet crackdown

Reporters Sans Frontieres - Reporters Without Borders

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=9648


"The vast majority of Cubans are banned from using the Internet. In Fidel Castro’s Cuba only those with explicit permission can access the Net. The ban is all the more severe because it is illegal to possess computer equipment. The cybercafés are reserved for the use of tourists and are under very strict control.

In March 2003 the Cuban regime launched a wave of arrests during which 27 independent journalists were imprisoned. Among them was poet and journalist Raúl Rivero. The charge sheet against him explicitly cited his work with an Internet site "aiming to overthrow the Cuban revolution". Most of the sentences of the 27 who were imprisoned referred to their use of the Internet: posting articles about foreign online publications or simply visiting forbidden sites.

Tens of thousands of Cubans however continue to pirate the ETECSA telephone network to access the Web. These illegal connections to the Internet are a window of freedom in a country where no independent media is tolerated.

In December 2003, the Cuban authorities announced that they would track down these "pirate" users. A government decree instructed ETECSA "to use all necessary technical means to detect and block access to the Internet" for unauthorised people. To put it bluntly, the Cuban authorities demand that your partner company monitors the Internet and helps police track down Cuban Internet-users who are getting round the official ban. The telecommunications operator thus becomes a party to the repression of the Internet. This decree moreover could lead to a new wave of arrests, this time against Cuban Internet "pirates"."

[NewSpectrum]

55. Even Teresa Heinz, John Kerry's wife has to put up with Castro's

interference with free speech and communication.



Canada Free Press

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/cover113005.htm


Communists, Control of the Internet

Castro hoards internet access for Fidel

By Judi McLeod
Wednesday, November 30, 2005

"Fidel Castro, whose country was hooked up to the Internet, courtesy of a 501(a) American charity, wants Internet control out of U.S. hands.
Now there’s gratitude for you, Teresa Heinz.
Even though Uncle Sam officially broke off relations with Havana under the 1961 Trading with the enemy act, in 1991, Teresa Heinz, using a Canadian connection funded by her Tides Foundation, linked the Communist country up to the Internet.
The Toronto-based Web/NIRV, Canadian affiliate of the Institute for Global Communications (IGC) and its offshoot, the Association for Progressive Communications (APC) used a 64 KBPS undersea cable linking Cuba to the information highway.
IGC, incidentally keeps the United Nations online.
What might appear to be an act of generosity by the Tides Foundation may be more a political act.
In Cuba, only people with government permission can access the Internet. Owning computer equipment is prohibited, and online writers have been imprisoned according to Reporters Without Borders, a Paris-based free speech watchdog group.
"Fidel Castro, the unflinching promoter of the use of new technologies" believes "it is necessary to create a multinational democratic (institution) which administers this network of networks," the delegate from Cuba told the recent UN World Summit on the Information Society (WSIS) in Tunisia.
Siding with Castro was Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe,
"The U.S. and other Western nations "insist on being world policemen on the management of the Internet," said Mugabe. "Those who have supported nihilistic and disorderly freedom of expression are beginning to see the fruits" of their efforts, Mugabe said, adding that Zimbabwe will be "challenging the bully-boy mentality that has driven the unipolar world."
Mohammad Soleymani, Iran’s minister of communication and information technology also chose the WSIS summit to grouse about US control of the Internet.
Too often, the Internet is used for the "propagation of falsehoods", Soleynmani said.
Nobody can heave a sigh of relief that the Tunisia summit did not see management of the worldwide net changing hands.
The deal resulted in the creation of another opportunity to wrest Internet governance from the California-based Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
The UN Internet Governance Forum is expected to meet in Greece in 2006"

[NewSpectrum]

59. Link to the tidesfoundation

http://www.tidesfoundation.org/index.html


Tides has awarded grants in the following issue areas:

Civic Participation
Civil Rights and Liberties / Public Interest Law
Community / Economic Development
Economic and Racial Justice
Education
Environment (Conservation / Environmental Justice)
Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Issues
Health Services/Health Reform
HIV/AIDS
Homelessness / Housing and Shelter
Human Rights / International Relief / Peace Advocacy
Native Communities
Progressive and Community Based Arts and Media
Spirituality
Sustainable Food and Agriculture
Violence Prevention
Women's Empowerment / Reproductive Health
Youth Development and Organizing


Can't accuse them of being a right wing group (although I am sure someone will try......)and I don't think they funded that undersea cable so only Castro cronies in Cuba could use it. I am pretty sure it was intended for the broader populace. According to Castro though, too much information is not a good thing.

[malaise]

54. There you have it

Cuba is by no means perfect, but I'll take the health care, dental care and education in Cuba over what is available to the poor in the US any day of the week.
Any system that does not promote a corrupt wealthly elite oppressing the poor provides more equity. Funny how these same people do not protest the Saudi and Pakistani dictators who are Buscho's great friends.

[NewSpectrum]

56. What same people?

No one is defending BushCo here, no one. First this discussion was about Cuba which is in a bad enough situation by itself. You can always deflect the conversation by bringing up Saudi Arabia and Pakistan........ a whole other mega thread unto itself......... but the sources I quoted, Human Rights Watch, BBC, etc are quite critical of Saudi Arabia and Pakistan as well.

http://hrw.org/doc?t=mideast&c=saudia

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=asia&c=pakist

The question then becomes (since the sources I quote are pretty even handed) why are so many Cuba defenders in this thread willing to give Cuba a pass when it comes to Human Rights.

If Cuba is has such a great economic system....... you could always move there if you like..... too bad the vice versa isn't true, Cubans who want to leave Castro behind aren't exactly free to go.

[malaise]

57. Are you free to go to Cuba?

I am.

[NewSpectrum]

58. I may have to make a stop over in the Bahamas........

but I can get to Cuba.

[killbotfactory]

2. The rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

--Castro

[liberaldemocrat7]

6. Castro no.

Castro no.

Republicanismo no.

[ShaneGR]

46. Castra and "message of stability" in same sentence...

Made me laugh. If living under a communist dictatorship is "stable".....

[Disturbed]

50. Why has Cuba been blockaded for over 40 years?

Why can't US firms do business with Cuba? Why can't US Citizens travel directly to Cuba? If all of these things are possible with Communist China and Vietnam why not with Cuba?

[NewSpectrum]

60. Kick for an.........

ABAJO FIDEL!!!!!!!!




English translation:

DOWN WITH FIDEL!!!!!

[NewSpectrum]

61. Castro even tries to intimidate Cubans outside his country.....

The above sign was held up by a cuban exile during the 2006 World Baseball Classic in Puerto Rico. When the man presented the sign Cuban secret police goons surrounded the man...... until the Puerto Rican police turned the tables on them and escorted them away. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHA....... Lost that one you control freak (Fidel)

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/013399.php

Those Pesky Protesters!

It seems Cuba doesn't like fans in the stands with signs:

Jose Garcia, a Cuban exile living in San Juan, sitting five rows behind the plate, held up a sign reading Abajo Fidel (Down With Fidel) that was clearly visible on the TV feed that was carried internationally, including in Cuba.

That led to a confrontion with as many as four credentialed members of the Cuban delegation, one of whom was escorted from the stands by armed police officers, who later returned to protect Garcia from further harassment.

Some members of the Cuban team left their dugout to watch the incident before continuing with the game. But afterward, Cuba refused to participate in the mandatory postgame news conference and, according to a high-ranking San Juan police official, threatened to pull out of the event.

''What happened was a great provocation on the part of four or five counter revolutionaries using signs and offensive language that violated the established norms of the organizing committee,'' said a statement released by the Cuban team. ``The local police, instead of fixing the problem, showed their support for .''

The statement went on to say the Cuban delegation would meet with Major League Baseball officials early today to determine ''a solution'' before tonight's scheduled game with Puerto Rico.


I believe the solution is for every fan going to the game tonight to carry an Abajo Fidel sign and chant it loudly every time a Cuban player comes to bat. Major kudos to the local police, who in fact did fix the problem

[NewSpectrum]

62. Another Abajo Fidel!!!!! pic