Must see TV....Countdown now.

[A HERETIC I AM]

KO talking about Bush's speach today with John Dean, Boxer and the Mayor of SLCity coming up


on edit to change Pelosi to Boxer. Barbara on now (8:05 ET)

[A HERETIC I AM]

1. Mods...combine this with another if you need to. n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Showing Bush clips now... ROFL!

He sounds even drunker than usual, and couldn't pronounce "totalitarianism" at all. He gets worse and worse every day.

[jaxx]

3. Got it on.

I can hardly stand to listen to bush in his self-righteous suit.

[patrice]

4. How did the American Legionairs receive Bush?

Does anyone know what they thought about what he said?

[Subdivisions]

37. Their demeanor while shrub was speaking was rather

lackluster.

I would guess that only about 40% of the room applauded during his applause cues. A couple of times, he pause for applause that didn't come.

Then he compared the current war effort to Omaha Beach. I think that was where he jumped the shark with the vet crowd. There were some jeers that were drowned out by the band at the conclusion of the speech.

[patrice]

51. I'm having a little problem with my feelings about the "Great

Generation" right now. I hope they can redeem themselves by waking, the heck, up!

Too many people trying to re-live past glory.

[dogindia]

5. Boxer is up

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. Personally, i like her better then Hillary...

I think Hillary is a brilliant woman, dont get me wrong but Ms. Boxer is....well....better. She is unapologetically liberal. I doubt you would see her "Run to the middle" as it were.

[Sydnie]

24. I agree completely

She is Popeye, she yam what she yam and that's all that she yam. No need to hide behind any fake position for her.

I love her dearly and support her madly.

[IChing]

9. My senator is rocking the house

She is talking about a rubber stamp congress also keith is playing the clip from * about the terrorist following us here.
The president is desperate and this is a scare tactic.

[patrice]

22. Excellent Job!!

Boxer & Sebelius in '08!!!

[spanone]

6. Pelosi calling for Rumsfeld's firing.

Fucking A Nancy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Barbara Boxer, actually. But she's doing a great job.

[spanone]

38. yikes, sorry. thanks

[patrice]

7. Yeah, Time for Rumsferatu to GO!

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. "They're scaring us everyday"

I'm tellin ya...i like this lady. Always have

[patrice]

11. How, the holy fucking hell, are we supposed to kill every Terrorist

in the World in the streets of Bagdhad?

They're all going to go to Iraq so we can kill them?

[A HERETIC I AM]

14. Jingoism. You cant kill everyone in the world that has a bad opinion

of this country.

[patrice]

16. "This IS Nuts!!"

[bdamomma]

32. remember bush was the governor in Texas who had put more

prisoners on death row, this man cannot talk to people, he'd rather kill them. We have a madman here and he is talking about terrorists, he is the terrorist. John Dean next.

[Subdivisions]

43. I was sitting here this morning watching chimpy trying to speak

like a real human and thinking the same thing.

How the hell do you win a war against an incohesive force? It's not like terrorists wear uniforms and line up along a front. How the hell are we supposed to know when we've "won"?

What a bunch of worthless idiots.

[WinkyDink]

55. Well, now, that's just good bidness. Ask Halliburton!

Perpetual killing and destruction = PROFIT$.

[jazzjunkysue]

12. "No truth in what the President is saying." Bravo. Amen.

War on terror requires us to stop the occupation of Iraq. Our security requires us to end Iraq occupation. Bravo. Say it. Say it again.

[jazzjunkysue]

15. Keith just thanked us (many thousands) for words of support!

WoooHooooo!!!! He means me! "We are just overwhelmed."

Feels good. Great job, DU.

[City Lights]

17. No, he means me!

:P

;-) :hi:

Kudos to everyone who wrote! :yourock:

[Danmel]

44. He means me!

He is my free fuck you know. My husband and I have a deal- each one of us has ONE person with whom we could cheat. His is Sandra Bullock ( go figure). Mine is Keith Olbermann. (Not that either of us has even the remotest chance of MEETING our designees much less getting nekkid with them!)

I didn't tell him he was my choice, but I did tell him that I love him!

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. Sandra Bullock....good choice! Keith Olberman........excellent!

you both :yourock:

[malaise]

18. That was sweet

I love KO. Great program tonight as well.

[bdamomma]

19. Barbara Boxer was just on

geez, it's going to be a bumpy ride to November these rats are desperate, let's get rid of them Please. I agree with her the President is desperate, and all they do is promote FEAR TO the American People.

I am tired of being disrespected by these people. What BS.

[bdamomma]

29. I feel as though we are in a pressure cooker and it's going to blow soon

Rocky Anderson Mayor of Salt Lake City, is great.

[Swamp Rat]

20. John Dean up next!

:bounce:

[A HERETIC I AM]

21. Is it possible the 1st card in this unstable house may have been yanked?

Is it possible that this administration will begin to implode and crumble? What we really need is a bunch of inner sanctum types to resign lke what happened to Nixon in his latter days.

I am very curious to see the poll numbers for * for next week. Apparently, Brian Williams interview got a shitload of email to NBC.

Oh, for a sea change.

[A HERETIC I AM]

23. Ladies and Gentlemen, Mayor Anderson

n/t

[patrice]

25. Good Turn Out in Salt Lake City! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

[IChing]

26. rocky is very popular in SL and not running again for mayor

He has national ambitions.

[IChing]

28. He is great

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. He is amazing! nt

[lonestarnot]

27. Did you see bushitler pull his thumb out of his ass and offer it

to someone during Rocky Anderson interview?

[patrice]

30. Rocky is Cool!!!

I'm glad he's talking about not hurting the troops. These things NEED to be said and Rocky Anderson is saying them.

[rndmprsn]

31. rocky said thanks to KO for his statement yesterday...

he said it was inspiring, KO thanked him very modestly.

that was great.

[spanone]

33. Rocky Anderson is the Real Deal.

Articulate and sure footed. Promote him to the National Stage IMMEDIATELY!

[rndmprsn]

34. agreed 100%

i have never even heard of him before, but i watched his speech in its entirety and was thoroughly impressed with him...this interview with KO pretty much confirms it.

senator rocky anderson (D UT)

i like the sound of that.

[TahitiNut]

46. Imagine!! A Utah politician I can support! Wow! It's a miracle.

He's terrific. Wow ... he's even good enough to give Jerry Brown a run for the money in Oakland. That's amazing.

[IChing]

49. He works internationally on global warming and enviromental issues

I drove through Utah in early August and listen to public radio on him, I was amazed I have not heard of this guy.
He is not running again but could win easily they said. Hated outside of Salt lake but loved in town.

[helderheid]

57. Our Salt Lake County Mayor is one you'd like too - Dean's 1st cousin!

[patrice]

35. Read Conservatives without a Conscience.

It will depress you, but at least you'll have a more realistic idea of what we are up against here.

[jazzjunkysue]

36. Here we go: Olbermann/Rumsfeld redux: Popcorn, please.

John Dean: Nazism has nothing in common with Terrorism. This is autoritarianism. Say anything you want to in order to demonize the enemy.

He says this is what his whole book "Conservatives Without Concience" is about.

Dissent is a long republican tradition the Rumsfeld wants to stop.

Keith: "Why are they on this fascism bent?"
Dean: "It was a smear, and now he's backtracking on it. This is a pre-emptive attack bafore labr day to try to keep their power, and they're in trouble this fall."

[A HERETIC I AM]

39. Dean on now. Get em' John. Sic' em'. Get em. Bite em onna leg!

[A HERETIC I AM]

42. And he just did. "This is textbook Authoritarianism"

[patrice]

40. Fascists are state based. Terrorism isn't. Interesting point.

[IChing]

41. John Dean on now...

great line up today.

Dean says fascism is a state base philosophy, so the administration is using textbook authoritarianism on America

[IChing]

45. They are playing the American people as stupid

I hope they are not says Dean.

[RagAss]

50. 50% of voters have a 100 IQ or less......that is stupid....

[patrice]

53. "Average" was 85-100 in the not too distant pass.

i.e. the last time I looked (about 10 years ago).

[IChing]

54. the largest percentile is 85-115 which is

makes up the bulk, if you have an IQ of 140 there are just as many that have an IQ of 60 in the population

[patrice]

59. Yep, that ol' Bell Curve.

It was extremely politically incorrect during my last 5 years in high school classrooms.

[patrice]

48. What scares me about Authoritariansim is that it IS Contrarian when

push comes to shove, Authoritarians will cut their own nose off to spite *your* face.

I think about this as I watch those clips of Bushitler in front of the American Legion. Now, there are some serious dinosaurs. Push comes to shove, their blind lizard brains will vote for another Bush if they get a chance, just to establish their "authority".

[TahitiNut]

56. Yes, they play "minus-sum games" (i.e. lose-lose)

... and war is a good example. It's not as much about 'winning' as it is about making the opponent ("enemy") lose more. And "more" is NEVER enough.

[patrice]

58. But there's something weird about war.

Body count does not equal victory.

If you kill or get killed, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether your side "wins".

There were some serious military professional types saying that on the internet during the buildup to the Invasion of Iraq.

[TahitiNut]

60. That's because there's no such thing as 'victory'

Think about it.

Killing the 'enemy' is NOT a "gain" - it's the infliction of a "loss." To equate someone else's "loss" to a "gain" (for anyone) is the epitome of the delusions underlying the insanity of war.

Thus, it's a question of how much loss (in blood and treasure) a participant will tolerate before resigning from the game. The losses sustained by the Soviet Union in WW2 dwarf those sustained by the US. The Soviet Union didn't resign (surrender). The US sustained its greatest losses by far (in blood and treasure) during the War Between The States (not actually a 'civil war' like others). In the VietNam War, our losses were comparatively trivial compared to those of North Viet Nam or South Viet Nam ... but we resigned. The point is this: Nobody 'wins' - nations 'lose' when they resign/surrender.

"Last man standing" is NOT 'victory.' It's just survival ... and not a very good one.


But here's one of the keys - something to consider. When we speak of war, we tend to tacitly assume we're speaking of monolithic participants. We presume that the 'nation experiencing the loss' and the 'nation perservering in the face of that loss' are one and the same. What's worth noting is that the greater the difference between that part of the nation making the decisions and that part of the nation bearing the loss (blood and treasure) then the LARGER the loss will be before that nation resigns/surrenders. Monarchies and authoritarian/totalitarian states will, all else being equal, take longer to resign. The reason is clear: the 'players' aren't the same as the 'losers.' This fact has serious implications for any international conflict - conflicts between states and conflicts ivolving NGOs.