OK, the country goes fascist and you want to flee. Where will you go?

[marmar]

Poll question: OK, the country goes fascist and you want to flee. Where will you go?

OF COURSE we'll stay to fight these bastards until the bitter end, but if you ever reached the "That's It. See ya!" point, where would you go? I could ease into Amsterdam very nicely....What about you?

[salib]

1. Til the bitter end.

Never surrender. Never leave. My country.

[maveric]

75. I'll join the Resistance.

And take our country back.

[mnhtnbb]

2. A Caribbean island in the country of Panama--

Isla Bastimentos, to be precise. We are building a retirement home
there. After the election of 2004, we started looking for our escape hatch.
After researching Canada, New Zealand, Ireland, Bahamas, Turks Caicos, Bonaire and Belize, we ended up in Panama. Bastimentos is a spectacularly
beautiful rain forest island in the Bocas del Toro region of Panama--which is an archipelago on the Caribbean side. Anyone with more interest, PM me.

[marmar]

3. That sounds quite nice....

:toast:

[mnhtnbb]

7. It really is beautiful. But I'd rather stay in Chapel Hill, which I love.

My husband and I give it a 50/50 chance we'll retire permanently
to Bastimentos. Even if--that's a big if--the Dems retake the House in November, and by some miracle, the White House in 08, the country has very serious economic problems that aren't going to be solved overnight. It could get very ugly here when people don't have jobs, homes, or food. We wouldn't want to be around.

[mnhtnbb]

41. For a good explanation of the coming economic meltdown

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=27539&mode=nested&order=0

[Subdivisions]

63. That is some really scary...

stuff. Got any more links?

[oscar111]

8. Why there? and, how about hurricanes?

please tell us the good points of that locale.
thank you mon ami

[mnhtnbb]

20. NO HURRICANES!! 140 years of recorded history, not 1 hurricane

because Panama sits geographically below the latitudes of the Caribbean where the hurricanes develop.

Excellent retirement benefits available to people who qualify for the "pensionado" resident visa.

Property ownership rights available to non-citizens are the same that are available to citizens.

Panama City is the financial capital of Latin America. Title to property can be held in a Panamanian corporation which shelters capital gains taxes upon sale of property. Income from other countries is not taxed.

No currency exchange--the US dollar is Panamanian currency.

The country is considered quite safe.

Cost of living is much lower than the U.S.

Many of the MD's in country were trained in U.S.--and yes, health care and medicines are much less expensive.

More info: www.panamainfo.com

[oscar111]

39. UNTRUE

i have seen them develop in the east atlantic near africa , and hit S america mainland. I dont recall where they hit in central amer, as i dont pay that much attention to them.

But i know that "below the lattitude where they develop" is not a true guideline... if indeed they develop north of P., be assured they can and do turn south. Watch out. Get better info, my friends.

[mnhtnbb]

44. We're talking Caribbean, not Atlantic. See the link for storm tracks

http://stormcarib.com/climatology/WCAR_all_car.htm

[Pachamama]

73. With the rapidly changing world climate, don't count on anything regarding

historical weather patterns to be an accurate indicator of the risk of hurricanes...

That's true for everywhere....unfortunately....

[Canuckistanian]

16. Wow. That you've even done this research is amazing.

You must be pessimistic about the future of your country. I can sympathise.

BTW, did you know that Canada has been considering annexing the Turks and Caicos islands for decades?

Polls keep showing that we would welcome such a concept, but nothing ever comes of it.

[mnhtnbb]

22. The realtor that I worked with in Turks Caicos was a Canadian.

[mitchtv]

30. I like Costa Rica

We are a couple of hrs from Mexicali. If we took the Jeep we could probably drive. I love the climate around San Jose.

[Swamp Rat]

55. The Pan American Hwy is very dangerous now, so be careful.

Btw, I lived in Costa Rica - I love it!

[mnhtnbb]

51. More info on the region

http://www.republicofpanama.net/regions/Bocas_del_Toro/

[lonestarnot]

4. Just somewhere else.

[The Jacobin]

5. Nowhere

They'll have to jail me. This is my land, I'll never surrender.

[Sinti]

31. What he said. n/t

[TomInTib]

6. Costa Rica

see you in Dominical

[Der Blaue Engel]

9. I said Canada, but I don't think they want our stink up there

They're arming their border guards starting in 2007.

[William769]

10. Other.

Free America. Theres just to many of us not to keep a piece of real estate.

[BlooInBloo]

11. Fuck the suggestion that I want to run like a WATB....

... this is MY country. You're welcome to run if you like - if you're so inclined, then it's probably for the best.


EDIT: Forgot the "to" in the subject.

[The Jacobin]

12. watb?

[BlooInBloo]

15. oh - sorry - "whiny ass titty baby" - thought it was better known...

[kineneb]

13. picked Europe, if I could afford it

but living at under 125% of the poverty rate, I'm not going anywhere. Going to hunker down out here in the country, grow my own food, and shoot the bloody bastards if they come looking for me. Hope Hubby will be able to continue on getting dialysis...

Buddhas, please forgive me now, I may have to resort to violence to defend the Constitution and my fellow citizens' rights. Guess I will get recycled for that.

[Gregorian]

14. Can't.

50. No job. Not married. Therefore I don't meet most immigration requirements.

However, there is an alternative. If you have about a million or more, you can invest, and then you don't have to meet immigration requirements.

That's basically it.


You can't just leave. I tried.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. Last I heard, if you wanted to move to Canada,

all you needed to do was invest $100,000 in some business in Alberta (provinces could set their own immigration requirements). Things might have changed since then, though.

[nealmhughes]

17. Bulgaria -- arch. gems, great beaches and mts., cheap col and EU soon!

Plus Bulgarian doesn't have all those pesky cases of other Slavic languages to have to learn to decline....

[marmar]

23. What's the capital city of Bulgaria?

Eastern Europe is very intriguing to me lately.

[nealmhughes]

27. Sofia, Varna is on the coast and Plovdiv in the mountains near Greece.

Sofia is on the Danube.

[Redneck Socialist]

18. Flee? Fuck that shit

I go out in a hail of gunfire.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. First choice, New Zealand. Second choice, probably Costa Rica.

New Zealand seems like about the best bet if you could get there. About as far from the US as possible without leaving the planet.

[Cobalt-60]

37. Good Choice

If I could escape, it would be New Zealand.
I have 50 points for immigration there!
If I could escape.
I'm a thousand miles from the border. Barely 20 miles away swarm the aggressive freepers of Missouri.
I think I'll probably have to fight it out right here.

[RagAss]

21. I'll die here fighting......thank you very much.....fuck the reptiles !!!!

[derby378]

26. I'll be right next to you, covering your six

Can you say "Wolverines?"

[meldroc]

29. Same here, I stay in the U.S. and fight.

The Rocky Mountains are at my doorstep, first, the bastards will have to find me. Once they find me, they'd better bring a fucking SWAT team, because if I'm going down, I'll make damn sure I have company.

I bet the NSA and FBI are probably eating this up as we type, guaranteeing that in the event the .gov does become completely fascist, we're the first ones against the wall.

Now if you need me, I'll be cleaning my guns...

[tocqueville]

24. Fleeing is an option if you come back with a liberation army

I understand there were be people that will stay and fight. A lot of them because they don't have any other option. Some will flee because they are persecuted, weak, elderly, have children etc... you cannot expect those people to fight, but to give support.

But a smart alternative, is too get abroad among friends and gather forces to one day liberate your country. That's what some French did and it payed off in the end. The Free French Forces played an important role in the liberation of their country. They allowed the other allies to go directly north after the germans while they tied the rear of the German army preventing counter attacks behind the frontline in Normandy. They after the victory could reorganise the country.

But stay in Paris drinking wine or in Amsterdam smoking pot and cursing Bush won't help.

Some posts here really freak me out. It sounds like about 50% are going to die an unnecessary painful death and the others move abroad and just forget about the whole thing...

[Swamp Rat]

57. "But stay in Paris drinking wine or in Amsterdam smoking pot and cursing

Bush won't help." - But it would be FUN! :D

I LOVE those cities! :loveya:

[Pachamama]

78. What a choice: Terrible painful death or drinking wine & smoking pot in

Amsterdam and cursing Bushler....

Hmmmm....which one do I choose? So difficult....What do you think Swamp'r? :eyes:

I think I'll take the dutch alternative.... :hi:

[chaska]

25. Hell might be better.

[Earth_First]

28. Nowhere.

I REFUSE to give in.

[oscar111]

32. SURVIVALIST FORUMS? best, biggest ones?

anyone got a recommendation?

[Earth_First]

38. Careful,,,

There's folks out there (here) that are ready and willing to jump at you for having freeper tendencies for using the word(s) survivalist and suggestion(s) in the same sentence...

[oscar111]

47. My Journal will end any freeper thoughts concerning me

any who think my post has freeper origins, just go read my Journal.

Everyone will need survivalist skills, if birdflu hits.

Progressives surely will be in need of such skills to survive birdflu. I am a progressive,
and i intend to survive birdflu.

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. I'll be here till the last dog dies

"It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

[oscar111]

34. Recommend button at bott of orig post

thanks

[lpbk2713]

35. Spain, Med coast. Been there before. Liked it. ..... n/t

[The Straight Story]

36. They can have this country

When they pry it from my cold dead hands.

Like the buckeyes I will keep playing until time runs out, and like their national champioship I will go into overtime and keep playing until I win :)

Guns don't kill people, governments do.

[hyphenate]

42. If I told you

I'd have to kill you. :hi: Hi, Agent Mike!!!

Naw, j/k. My relatives are in Canada, and I would be hardpressed to find as beautiful a destination as Cape Breton Island, even in the dead of winter. On the other hand, I love Toronto, and it's so much easier to get around in a big city, but the cost of living in TO is a lot higher than in Cape Breton. There is a chance to go further north to Newfoundland where there are more relatives, but it seems St. John would be colder, and I'm not sure I could tolerate that.

[marmar]

43. I too love Toronto...and Montreal.

It would be a very close competition with me between Amsterdam, Toronto and Montreal, with Paris and Copenhagen lurking closely behind.

[Bobbieo]

45. It is frightening that we even have to think this way

AND we pretty well have to take back our country this November or else!!!

[marmar]

50. True...

:cry:

[bdamomma]

76. yes, that VOTE may be our last chance to get our country back

if not, it may be, or else.

[stevedeshazer]

46. Washington DC. Screw the quitters.

This is our country.

I don't understand all the fair-weather patriots who give up and want to flee at the exact moment when the USA needs them the most.

Stand up for yourself and the patriots who crafted our brilliant Constitution.

Don't bow down and slink off to Holland. Stand the fuck up and defend your country from fascists instead of going into hiding.

Respectfully, post like yours really PISS ME OFF.

</CAPITAL LETTER RANT>

[marmar]

49. With all due respect...

you don't have to read them or participate. That's what I usually do with posts I don't like. Sorry that you find free speech so upsetting.

[stevedeshazer]

58. Please, I don't need a lecture on free speech

This is a discussion board. You posted this here. Did you expect everyone to agree with you?

The First Amendment guarantees our right to free speech.

You want to bail instead of staying and fighting for our democracy?

That's chicken to the core. I guess you don't really believe in America and our Constitution. That's a shame.

Go ahead and leave. We need real patriots, not fair-weather friends.

[marmar]

62. Well, "cluck, cluck" I suppose. Thanks for responding....

Different perspectives add to the vitality of a discussion.

[BlooInBloo]

74. A lecture on free speech from one happy to run away when it's time....

... to fight for it - that's rich.

[mnhtnbb]

53. That's your choice to be pissed off. It's our choice to live our

lives out peacefully.

[stevedeshazer]

60. Did you read my post?

:shrug:

Your response makes no sense.

[mnhtnbb]

67. Yes, I read it. We're not "slinking off" to Panama. If it comes down

to making Panama our home permanently, we will have chosen it as a better place to be than the U.S.

[stevedeshazer]

68. Then I respect your choice, it is a rational one

and I regret that you have been compelled to make it.

Me, I'll die with my boots on. I have no choice. It's my belief system.

Good luck, and I hope you'll at least vote absentee.

[Pachamama]

79. I would fight and die for my country - on the other hand, my kids are my

first priority and if it meant protecting their lives first and foremost, I would leave the country.

Why make for someone like me the choice of protecting my children or being someone who is a coward and afraid to defend my country from fascists and not being patriotic?

It's not always black or white...their are shades in between...One can love their country, want to fight for it, but also realize that they need to leave and save the fighting for another day.

Namaste

:hi:

[longship]

48. I have two good choices.

1. The Netherlands. I have a personal friend there to help make a soft landing.

2. Belize. Hell with the soft landing. They speak English, have beaches on the Gulf of Mexico, and protected rain forests.

Or, maybe northern Ontario, north of Lake Superior...

That's *three* good choices.

[mnhtnbb]

54. If you consider Belize, take a look at Panama. We did.

We did a tour of the entire country of Belize and ended up in Panama.

[helderheid]

52. elsewhere - not Amsterdam per se but The Netherlands for SURE.

[Evoman]

56. Don't come to Canada!

You would just delay your doom by a couple of weeks. We gotsa lot of the black liquid gold up here.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

59. Great Britain or Spain

Either one would be great.

[devilgrrl]

61. I'm not going anywhere...

THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus:
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

Chorus

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

Chorus (2x)

[Subdivisions]

64. One more time! All together now! This land is your land...

I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and stand my ground.

[AZBlue]

65. I'm not giving up my country to anyone. Ever. Period.

eom

[WA98296]

66. Go?....Isn't that what the BORDER PATROL prevents?

[Ignacio Upton]

69. Where do I start...

Canada, but I would think that a fascist U.S. may try an anschluss to gobble it up to prevent people from fleeing (Mexico might just become a puppet state/protectorate to avoid any "Manifest Destiny" repeat.)
After that: The U.K, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, The Netherlands, Argentina (I'd live in Patagonia since it's remote and rugged), Chile (Patagonia too), Turks & Caicos, and possibly Costa Rica and Belize.

[oscar111]

70. umm.... Dont think you can get Domino's pizza deliveries in Patagonia

I dont think you thought this through.

LOL Just kidding.

[Fox Mulder]

71. Ireland or England.

[NuttyFluffers]

72. Japan

been planning for years in fact. should be graduating soon. wanna put in some gov't subsidized study abroad as well. been in the works pretty much since the announced candidacy of George W. because when i saw how he won the GOP primary, and how the media practically fellated him on air, and the american people being idiotically ambivalent or jingoistic, i pretty much made my contingency plans then and there. looked around, 2nd most powerful economy, expensive real estate, 4th in world for equitable distribution of wealth, nat. health care, excellent mass transit, fascinating modern pop culture, incredibly polite, good relations with hawaii and california... in essence paradise abroad.

[mnhtnbb]

77. And earthquakes. Big time.