Two pictures worth million words

[the_outsider]

Real (inflation-adjusted) median income has taken a huge hit in almost all states during 1999-2005.

And now a hint at where that money is going - yes, it's boosting corporate profits like never before. Also note how the good work done in Clinton's second term was totally reversed first and then it just took off. Gini coefficient (an index to measure wealth and income disparity) has also taken off during bush regime.




Powerful pictures, but we still do need words to get the message across.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. Do you have a larger version of the second

chart?

Also, this is not looking good for **'s base... UT is getting slammed, and there was not much there to begin with.

[silverweb]

2. Source?

I'd like very much to see the original of this and read any accompanying text.

Thanks!

[the_outsider]

3. Sources

1) The source for the first chart is Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006608300319
Please click on the link "Graphic:Michigander's income drop is the worst"


2) The source for the second is Russ Winter's blog:
http://www.xanga.com/russwinter/524728255/wheres-joe-soccer-moms-money.html
He has a larger version of the chart at
http://photo.xanga.com/russwinter/d673775399987/photo.html

[tocqueville]

9. www.freep.com ? oh the irony .... nt

[datasuspect]

20. is the detroit free press "not approved?"

i thought it was a newspaper.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. It is also "considered" to be the more "progressive" of the two

papers... I say that with a little hint of sarcasm. :hi:

[silverweb]

13. Thank you!

n/t

[leftchick]

24. holy shit!

I wonder how the bushbots in Michigan rationalize what the chimp has done to them?

<snip>

The news was grim in other areas, too. In 2005:

• 19% of children in Michigan lived in poverty, up from six years ago.

• Almost a third of the state's African Americans lived below the poverty level.

• Detroit remained one of the poorest big cities in the country with almost a third of its residents living below the poverty line.

• Cities and townships posted drops in median household incomes ranging from 24% to 6% and poverty rates increased in all but three cities.

"I hate to superimpose worse news on top of bad news, but this is not a cycle," said David Littman, a senior economist for the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a Midland-based think tank. "We're in a secular decline here in Michigan. As the economy slows nationally, we're going to sink much farther relative to the other states. We've only just begun.

"We're going to see Michigan sink to levels that no one has ever seen. We're going to be looking at the highest unemployment rates in the nation for the next five to 10 years."

"Nine percent of Michigan's labor force was unemployed, up from 6% six years ago, the data show. Nationally, the unemployment rate was 7%.

[ScreamingMeemie]

36. In case you didn't know, I voted for Granholm, Clinton, Gore and Kerry.

Unfortunately, for the most part, it is not the "bushbots" here in MI that are most affected by this. It is the working poor, the fast fading middle class...and most of all, Detroit itself. Feel a little bit of sorrow for those who are truly affected by this.

Last week, I appraised a foreclosure in Grosse Pointe. No worries for him, he was able to walk without the devastating affect it would have on you or I.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

30. Thank you. I forgot that simple little

luxury before.

And thanks for the link to Russ Winter's Blog... great stuff.

[Broken_Hero]

4. damn...

I believe it. I'm no financial guru, and most financial rhetoric goes right over my head. But with gas alone, it has hurt us(my wife and I) badly...we went form spending maybe 80 bucks a month, to paying over 200 bucks a month ...and thats just one product, let alone higher prices of food, and other items, which have risen, but not as much as gasoline has....

[ClintonTyree]

5. Of course gas and food..........

aren't counted in the inflationary index. Pretty smart thinking on their part, ey? :eyes: So, it's worse than it looks. Much worse.

[Broken_Hero]

6. okay...

so what do they take in effect then, if not gas/food? clothes, cars, prices of housing, rent?

[the_outsider]

8. It's a "basket of goods and services"

clothes, housing (owner equivalent rent), transportation (airfare, insurance), medical care, recreation (television, pets, movie admissions), tuitions and other services. Pretty much everything excluding food and energy. I do not think exact percentage of each of the items in the basket is disclosed and the weights change from time to time.

[newportdadde]

18. Also the 'basket of goods' gets manipulated, hamburger instead of steak.

The basket use to be constant, if a family bought steak one month what was the cost of buying it the next month etc. Now they say if steak is too high a family will get hamburger. This means even if hamburger is up as well its still not as high as the beginning steak cost so there is NO inflation because you swapped out for a lesser product.

Then you get into the whole, computers, more powerful less expensive so they LOWER the inflation reading and the whole bullshit deal with 'rents' for housing.

[ClintonTyree]

12. All of the other things you mentioned.........

housing, clothing, durable goods, the cost of insurance etc.......everything BUT energy and food. I know, it sounds impossible that they could exclude those two things that make up so much of the family budget, but they do. People are lulled into a false sense of security when the inflation index is announced, thinking that the index includes ALL expenses of the average American family. Few Americans are aware of this fact and the damned "liberal media" somehow forgets to inform Americans of those facts. :shrug: The Bush administration has found many creative ways to stick it up the average American's ass without them ever knowing about kit. They're real Pros. :grr: Lying and cheating are their stock and trade.

[the_outsider]

7. Right, lot of experts believe government inflation data is understated

Food and energy are "too volatile" , so they do not include it. As if that does not affect us.

[tocqueville]

10. it's interesting to compare

I saw that the annual income for a household in Michigan is around $46 000, which makes around 3800/month. Let say you pay 800 in taxes (?) you have 3000 left. That means €2300, which is the equivalent of 2 French minimum wages. But if you have to pay health insurances and other insurances on that money, I can understand that you are in trouble. Because on a monthly income of 2300 in France, there is very little tax and all the social security money and your healthcare is already payed. So it means that the "3000" can go to food, gas and housing. I hope I am counting right, I don't know how much the average monthly tax is.

[the_outsider]

11. We should not really compare US median incomes with French minimum wage

2 minimum US wages would be around 20K. That's where the Michigan poverty line is for a household of four. That's a fairer comparison to French minimum wage level. 31% of Detroit population and one-third of blacks in Michigan are below poverty line. My guess is it's much worse than France and any other Western European country, though I have not looked at the European numbers recently.

[mom cat]

14. That graph is worth a hundred thousand words.

[bigjsweden]

15. From Sweden.....

Hello!

I am from Sweden, and also we have discussions about our economy, as US economy!
Now, I can se that you have a tuff life over there, maybe not everybody, but lot of your people!
In Sweden we have a social security that not leaving anybody without apartment or other things. Nobody has under, in US dollar, approximately 1200 every month! We have free helth care and other normally things for a life, called a life!

And I like to here from you, what is the underlaying line, for your poor in US, or Michigan?

And, excuse my for my bad english!

With thanks
bigjsweden

[annabanana]

16. Welcome to DU.

Sweden is often held up as an example. You have a much stronger "safety net" for your most vulnerable citizens. Radical right wingers hold Sweden up as an example of an over-taxed state, with what they call "nanny-state socialism".

People are financially abandoned in the United States. What you saw on TV during Katrina exemplifies what is wrong with our system. People with the financial resources can afford to hire private companies and pay for insurance to help them out of difficulties. People with the most limited incomes are "on their own".

Welfare is dripped out on the completion of onerous, soulsucking paperwork.

[bigjsweden]

21. Thank you

I have also noticed that you can look on Sweden in two ways, maybe more ways...?

Sweden is not a socialistic country, but we have some of the good things from, if you like to call it "socialism", okey! We have a king and a queen, not so many socialistic country's have that! I am only joking now!

But is the mini-mun-wage yet 5,15 US dollar for an hour?

Thank you anyway...

bigjsweden

[JuniperLea]

17. Welcome to DU, bigjsweden

In my humble opinion, the US should take notice of Sweden and Norway when thinking in terms of better ways to live and more humane treatment of its citizens. Unfortunately, the US government isn't thinking in terms of the quality of the lives of its people. It's a very sad thing to see.

Good to see you here. I hope to read more of your perspectives.

Your English is just fine! You'd be shocked to see the poor English writing skills of many Americans. Education is another area of concern.

Thanks for posting! Post again and often!

[bigjsweden]

22. Hello again....

We have a little different social system in Sweden, Norway and in one way, whole of the Western-Europa that you have in USA. I noticed that what the writer before you writing the same! And of course we also know that here in Europe the system is little different to US! We have TV, we can read and many of us have maybe realities in America, so we know! But not in details, and that is what I like to know little more about!

About my spelling, you have a spelling-"machine"(?) in this DU, there I can see the worst spelling-mistakes I am doing!

About my perspectives I shall writhing so much I can do, but the problem is again the spelling! Maybe you better ask me of things, and than it maybe is easier for me to answer?

Okey, se you...

bigjsweden

[JuniperLea]

26. How long have you been reading and writing in English?

I think you are doing quite well.

Yes, the spelling "machine" you speak of. We call that "spell check". It's quite handy, isn't it? I use it myself. I do a lot of typing in my job and I tend to go very fast, so it's easy to make mistakes. Many of the things I write are published for clients and I have to be very careful of my spelling and grammar. Your spelling is very good. Perhaps you should focus on the grammar. You seem eager to learn! That is a very good thing!

I'm not sure I understood part of your last post. Did you mean to say that you have relatives in the US? Brothers, sisters, cousins, etc.

I think a big part of the problem here is that people confuse communism with socialism.

[bigjsweden]

27. Hello again over there....

Spell check is very god to have, absolute. We have it also in Sweden. Yes, my grammar is not good, I know. But it is difficult to write another language when the words come in a different way and order, if you understand what I mean!

I am writing a lot in my computer, and I are very interested in history. Before I was a history-teacher. Maybe I can get job like that again, who knows?
In my free-time I trying to writing history-books, and have now two books done already!

Yes, I had before relatives in Philadelphia, and I think I have it also in Canada, but I don't know the younger generations at all. The older one is now "six feet under"!

About communism and socialism you can say a lot, but the systems we had here in Europe is now gone. And not many are crying for that! They was a kind of joke-systems....
Self I believe on a kind of market-economy with many god things from, if you like, socialism, into it! My ideals are the UN:s 30 human rights paragraphs, every of them, to de last dot!

Okey, hope you understand it

Sincerely
bigjsweden

[JuniperLea]

32. I think I understand

A combination of socialism and capitalism. There must be a middle road, something that supports individuals who want to have their own companies or make their living on their own without being part of a large corporation. And socialized medicine I think is very important for society.

[Festivito]

25. Tusand tak for your efforts. Let me explain something.

Our media is not telling us what we need to know. Here on the Internet, here at DU we research more, read more and know more. However, our elections swing by the uninformed voters listening to our media. They listen to liars on the radio, TV anchors pre-written stories, and newspaper headlines that sometimes do not represent the article under the misleading title. And, sometimes, they only read the titles.

Presidents do not know how many CIA work inside media outlets. They should not be there. But, we are the biggest world power, so, the real powers want to take us over more so than wanting to take over Sweden, Germany, Japan, or any other country.

King Carl Gustav is a pleasant good man. You are lucky, because that is only luck. (Or, perhaps my grandfather's socialist rantings had some good effect on his father.)

The conspiracy we are fighting is huge. We could use help, but that is for a different post.

Economics are making the rich richer. The average worker is being pushed down. The rich can only drive one car at a time. Even if they all buy ten cars, what used to be, say 50%, happy to buy a car every couple of years is reduced to 10*.5% or 5% buying cars. Michigan is mostly manufacturing being near the great lakes with access to the ocean. Once cheap supplies of resources dwindle, the boom is over. The boom(fast growth) is over. Automotive was the biggest thing we had left. Now, it is leaving.

Now, getting a $15/hour job is tough. Used to be $35 to $75 for good Automotive jobs. (Rough numbers, don't quote me.)

No one to buy cars -> fewer jobs -> people leaving Michigan -> houses not selling. Houses are many American's retirement plan, they will be living on little Social Security, as low as $350 per month. I know some.

And, don't worry about bad, or as we say, poor English. Just keep writing. Notice how we use poor, in England also. It says of us, that we hold that who you are is HOW MUCH you have.

It's different here. And, forgive my Swedish. Dad never taught me any of it.

[bigjsweden]

28. Hejsan.......

It´s Swedish for hallo....
Thousand thanks is "tusen tack" in swedish. So your grandfather was from Sweden? Our king is who he is, not more, not lesser - most of us don´t care! It is only a relic from the history witch has survived!

Yes, we know a little about your problems with the medias in US. Even we have problems, but maybe northern Europe is more for fair play than in America? At least we have some kind of social security for everybody - and because of that, higher taxes! But we have self voted on that way! But two weeks from now, we are voting in Sweden! And the right-wing can win the elections! They like to do a new America in Sweden, they tell us! ;o)

I hope you can defeat the conspiracy you fighting against! And don´t ask me what we like your war in Iraq and another country's - most of us don´t like i at all! And we can not understand why your country must fight around the world? What are your leaderships afraid about? It´s only my thinking!

Also we here in Sweden have problems with factories and works witch going to the Baltic-country's, China, Poland, Russia, Czech republic or Hungary there the only pay $2-4 in hour for working people! Even my self have problem sometime to get job! But the social security help us to survive! And the leadership/politicians say it´s soon coming better days - I believe it when I se it with my own eyes!

Okey, so the "normally" is round $15/hour now? Or $35-75?
15 dollar is about 108 swedish krona, its like here. Mostly maybe have little more, say $18-20/hour. But $35-75 is very good salary, in deed!

Social security at least give everybody about, minimum, 1000-1200 in US dollars/month in Sweden.

How many hours is normally work-week in USA? In Sweden it is 40 hour/week!

Okey, now is your turn....

Hejdå, vi hörs... (god bay, we see again)
bigjsweden

[Festivito]

29. Hejsan, hello.

My dad emigrated hue-ty-hue years ago. Far-far spoke to the king before that. It is good to have a relic king. Be well with it. You can only see as far into the future as far as you can see into your past.

Your taxes. What are they? My cousins tell me it is about 50%, but reduced if one buys a house and invests as the Swedish government may wish.

Here, it depends greatly on wages, say 25%, but after buying a house, having a child, maybe 15% effective rate. However, Michigan wants 4%, Detroit 3%, Michigan sales tax wants 6%, then come property taxes $1200-$5000/year, much more for a big house, $2000 for me and call it 5% effective. Social Security and Medicare take 15.3% out of what I earn. So, I'm up to about 30% effective.

But, wait. You get pension(6%), life insurance(1%), disability insurance(1%), unemployment insurance(4%), and health/dental/eye family insurance($12000, yes, 12 thousand/year. 20%)

Now I am over 60%, only my pension and insurances ARE NOT TRANSFERABLE. When I leave a company I must get new insurances and start my pension over again. Yet, I bet I am paying more than you, just getting LESS.

We start with two weeks of vacation, you get five! We do not even get two weeks anymore and must wait gaining a day each month of service beyond two months and will be lucky to get three or four weeks after ten years of service. If the company we are stuck with allows it. (Add another 5% for vacation time WE DO NOT GET.)

Sick days. We gain that from each month of service as well. You start protected. Some companies will drop an employee after a long illness. I think you are protected in Sweden. Add another 3% to my taxes since I would have to cover myself.

70% US effective rate compares to what in Sweden. Perhaps the wages are different as well. But, if I make $50000/year at 70% effective tax, that would be the same for you making $30000/year and we would be talking about the same health coverage, vacation, pension and the rest.

40 hours per week here. Although, if in a 70000/year job, expect to GIVE an additional ten hours a week if you want promotions. Depends on job, company and person. Under 40 hours, Expect that you WILL NOT RECEIVE health care. Many companies hire people and work them at 30 hours a week so they do not have to pay any health care costs, e.g. Wal-Mart.

It is sad to look at this. But, I enjoy your feedback.

[bigjsweden]

31. God morning.......

The time here now is 10.10......

Interesting what you writing about the salaries and other things, I shall try to answer your questions after what I know.

Taxes.
In my job now, and that is not a really job, it is voluntarily from my side, I can stay home for exactly the same money! The tax is than, even for money when you are sick at home, you pay taxes, for me 27 per cent. But when I shall by food and another-ting to live, it is also a tax on 12 per cent, before it was 24 per cent - but I am not sure to 100 here. Books and other thing is 6 per cent. It is a salary's, maybe you call it?

In theory, middle-swed pays maybe 50 per cent in taxes, but not everybody, some more, some lesser.
House tax is every year 0,6 per cent of what the house is worth in the market. To this com´s than to pay the house, rents and insurances and other things as you maybe have also in the US. A house in good areas in Sweden cost today, in US dollars, between say 350 000 to 700 000.

With this we have now payed everything for us, pensions, social security, and every children got some $100 in us every month - from government. Rich as poorer, everybody with an Swedish passport! If you been sick and stay home, you got nearly 80 per cent of your normally salary from government - but the payers in real are the company's if you understand me. The money take only the way over the government. It is a limit to them who have a very good, high, salary, they got maybe only half of salary when they stay hom and are sick. But the can have a private insurance, if they want - and they want normally.

In Sweden we have also taxes on cars, very high and petrol-tax is about 40 per cent.

The company's must pay whole the social security and pension-money for them who working in the company, so for everybody who get salary in the company, the company must after that pay extra about 1/3 of the salary. If salary is, say 20 000 krona's, the company must pay 27 000 in reality. The worker got 15 000 and the "government" got 12 000 krona's. But it is for the social, pension and other things to about 90 per cent. The rest is to government things as police, roads and you name it.

Yes, we have 5 weeks vacations in Sweden. We can also take a free-year, and live on the social-security and relax - or traveling to America perhaps? ;o)

But we have lot of younger peoples who have not jobs just now. And also here they are not happy, because before everybody got a job, but now it is more difficult. It has been little better the last month´s, but still the problem is big.

In Sweden about one million is not working but live on the "welfare system" (maybe you call it). But it is older peoples, they ho cannot work so good, some alcoholics, young peoples and the sick peoples. We are only 9 million in Sweden. One million has coming to us from other country's since 1970 - former Yugoslavia, Poland, Baltic's and in the latest 20 years from Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, Iran and also Africa and Kurdistan - they are refugees. Also many of them can not got a work in Sweden. Also my own family comes from the Baltic's - but already 1944! I am borne in Sweden.

The work-problem is very easy, in Sweden as USA and rest of EU - the system to do things are so effective that more and more peoples is not needed anymore. Machines do today what 4 peoples doing for 75 years ago. That´s the problem, I think! And of course China, India and other Asia - they are cheaper than we in salary!

So we have same problems everywhere now - maybe it´s time for a new way to go forward? And that is not the communist-way, not the clean capitalist-way either, but a way there you do an mixture of market-economy, socialism and the ecology-factor. Or, the UN:s 30 points of humane rights.....

Yes, the king is little popular when you are older perhaps? But we not talking so much about our royal family. Next king will be a - queen. Victoria is hers name! She is the oldest of the three royal children, and the did an extra law that she could be the queen when she was little baby. Before could only man be king in Sweden, not woman. Last strong woman on the throne was queen Christina the first, 1644-1654. In those days Sweden was the big power in Europe.

Okey, I hope you understand me!

Hej då,

bigjsweden

[Festivito]

33. Back after holiday, labor day.

Thank you for your open response.

27% is not as high as I thought it would be.
12% on necessary purchases including food. Here food is exempt. (24% is a wow!)
6% on books. Hmmm. I do not understand this.

50% for mid-swede. Is that effective? ..after including usual purchase taxes,
or is it 50% plus purchase taxes? plus $2500 property?
In other words, you are taxed at 27%. Were you to be closer to the middle, you would pay 50% plus purchase taxes, plus property taxes, plus gas taxes? Effectively, you would pay 27+ (12 to 6 on purchases, say 10% on 75% spending all your remaining money, so...) 27%(income) +8%(purchases) +5%(property) +2%(gas, in lieu of blood tax, per salary, a guess), so still under 50%, where we pay 70%.

We also tax gas, and I did not include it before. The taxes pay to upgrade roads, but not for the blood and other war costs we spend protecting oil with war. We do not admit to this cost, generally.

Sounds to me that Swedes pay LESS in taxes than US, and get more for their taxes paid.

Thanks,

Hej pa då

Hope that's close,
-Fes

[JNelson6563]

19. Herr Bush is keeping the oligarchs safe!

:toast:

[MUSTANG_2004]

23. And yet some don't see the link between this and illegal immigrants n/t

[lonestarnot]

34. I think I need to take some trips to MT, ND and WY