Obesity: It's Because Irresponsible Companies Put Sugar In EVERYTHING!

[The Cleaner]

My unofficial study on obesity in America shows it's not simply a more sedentary life and a higher-fat diet that causes people in America to become obese.

Grab a food product - any product. Chances are one of the first few ingredients on the label is "high fructose corn syrup" and/or sugar. I looked at the labels for such food products as "natural" fruit drinks, salsas, breads, certain brands of potato chips, frozen foods, fast foods, vegetable products, sauces, pancake mixes (you put syrup on pancakes anyway - double sugar whammy) and particularly restaurant foods. I found that most prepackaged/prepared foods (frozen lasagna, frozen meatballs, frozen lunch/rice dishes, frozen burritos, barbeque beef in a container, etc.) have particularly high levels of sugar.

So in light of America's obesity problem, why are U.S. companies acting so irresponsibly and putting pound-packing sugar in nearly every product they sell?

In a nutshell: sugar makes people feel good. It trips certain hormones in the brain that produce good feelings and a sense of peace & calm. They get that familiar sugar rush without even considering they're eating foods laden with the sweet stuff. They feel good, they buy more food. They come back to the restaurants. They go back to the grocery stores to purchase and repurchase their favorite sugar-laden foods.

American companies ought to become a bit more responsible and stop putting sugar in virtually everything they produce. What do you think?

[Radio_Lady]

1. I agree completely. I've switched to stevia, a natural sweetener.

Check it out at:

www.stevia.com

[crikkett]

consider too, xylitol. 60% of the calories and it's good for your teeth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylitol

[Radio_Lady]

37. Thanks, Crikkett. My husband uses xylitol gum. I have to get

gum that "won't stick to most dentalwork."

Xylitol -- I wonder if that's a legal word in Scrabble???

[crikkett]

61. Warning - xylitol is deadly poison to dogs.

Causes their blood sugar to plummet and they go into convultions. Never tried it myself, just read it on wiki.

[guardian]

67. So is chocolate

That doesn't mean it is bad for humans.

[crikkett]

82. I'm saying be careful. you can fell a rottweiler w/ 3 stx trident gum. eom

[Ms. Clio]

84. crikey, thanks for the warning

my dog has a bad habit of stealing packs of gum whenever he gets the chance. Fortunately, upon checking, there isn't any xylitol in my favorite brand, Dentyne Fire, but I do see it in the Trident!

[Radio_Lady]

105. Good to know! We don't have any dogs, but our kids have a...

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel.

"Porter" (from Portland!) was born on the same day as my husband! June 23!

[Ms. Clio]

116. awwwww...

aren't they cuties?

Here's my big boy:

[KansDem]

33. Yes!!! I've been using stevia for years!

Ever since I developed health problems due to a lifetime of consuming crappy food.

Too little too late? Perhaps, but I feel a lot better about it! :D

[Radio_Lady]

38. I won't be able to carry the liquid stevia on the airplane!

Darn. I hate to pack liquids in glass in my suitbag.

Guess I'll take the sprinkling kind -- sort of like powdered sugar in consistency.

Do you cook with it?

[susanna]

147. The powdered form tastes awful, IMHO.

But if you have to travel that might be your only choice. It seems to have bitter aftertaste to me.

[OnionPatch]

155. Does that mean

there is a liquid form that doesn't have an aftertaste? All I've found is the power and I use it regardless of the aftertaste but if the liquid tastes better, I'll start looking for it.

[warrens]

47. Why bother

Sweet tooths are artificially promoted anyway. I just cook and eat fresh foods, and if I really want something sweet, I splurge on something decadent, like a hot fudge sundae. I try never to sweeten or salt anything. Those are used to cover a myriad of crimes, and our taste buds have been trained to desire them. Once you stop eating sugar and salt, all processed food starts tasting weird.

[SmokingJacket]

60. Yes, if you stop eating sugar and sweeteners for a week or two...

You won't even want it anymore. It's surprising how quickly it happens -- doesn't work with other foods, like fats, for instance.

[Ms. Toad]

160. Actually,

I find that technique works just as well for me with fats.

I suspect that trait may be individual.

With both sugars and fats I find that eating a little triggers cravings for more. That isn't true with other foods (carbs or protein, for example). Others may be wired differently, since you apparently don't have the same experience I do with fats.

[SmokingJacket]

161. I never stop liking butter...

but on the other hand, I never crave it either. I crave sugar if I start eating it, though...

I think people are *definitely* wired differently, possibly related to how their ancestors ate.

[we can do it]

126. That's True - Try Taking Some Responsibility - Don't Eat the Shit

sheesh, people are so damn lazy they will sit in a drivethru garbage line for half an hour, glug down a gallon of liquid soda poison and a pound of greasy garbage and sit in front of the boobtoob all night, then waaaaaaa - its everybody's fault but mine that I'm as big as freaking whale....give me a damn break, most of these people don't even mow their own grass or do anything physical anymore, they are too lazy to cook for themselves or even read a label to see what crap they are eating, then they want to say they want sympathy...give me a freaking break.

[susanna]

148. I agree with that 100%.

I love to cook, and cook most of my family's meals. When we go out, I generally find that I taste 1) salt and 2) sugar. They are the predominant taste profiles in ALL restaurant food, IMHO. I only season when something requires it, and then, I still add less than the processors, I'm sure.

[badgerpup]

132. When reading labels, look for "-ose" ending to ingredients.

...e.g. maltose, dextrose, lactose...
the -ose ending almost always means it's a sugar.

[Nederland]

2. I disagree

The blame lies with idiots that choose of their own free will to eat the crap.

[CollegeDUer]

4. You don't believe in sociology?

You don't believe that societies and cultures shape how people act and behave in one way or another -- thus that the mega corporations with enormous social and psychological influence DO have some form of social responsibility for their products?

Remember, we're the side that believes in science.

[Nederland]

17. No

I believe in responsibility. Yes, it's the government's job to educate people so they have a basis for making correct decisions (and out government DOES do a poor job of that), but it is not the government's job to make those decisions for them.

[Ron Green]

31. Personal responsibility is part of the picture, and the part that

Libertarians are always shouting about, but part of the picture is the addiction of people to things they don't always know are addicting, or even harmful. The "free market" seeks only to profit, and if that means propaganda and addiction, so be it. The government's responsibility is to gather the best information and make it available; when corporations own the government, that responsibility is ignored, and only those who have carefully educated themselves will avoid addiction.

[CollegeDUer]

91. Is it the PR industry's use of chemicals and marketing to

make those decisions?

[satireV]

114. Sociology is not a real science but a soft science

Read about the Garbage Experiment to find out why.

Sociology makes claims like... 12% of murders are done by women, thus men are more violent than women.

Which is pure rubbish.

It could mean women are just better criminals.


BTW nature beat out nurture. Or didn't you get the memo?

[CollegeDUer]

128. "Sociology makes claims like"

Certainly not all sociology is united, like all the other sciences. However general trends are more than easy to see.

[susanna]

149. Are you saying that women kill more? n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

171. it's a soft science due to the complexity & # of variables in its subject

you don't have to bother with the psychological motivators, societal systems and structures that influence, etc. when studying physics, chemistry, or biology (animal behaviorism is a fascinating sub-discipline exception. yet so much anthropomorphism naturally slips through, too. so there's room for debate on that one). there's only so much that can be adequately tested with our current experiment structures. it's not a failing of the discipline, but a testament to the monumental task ahead of them.

ps: nature beat out nurture is such a ridiculous reduction. nature has powerful factors, but so does nurture; humans do not reside in a vacuum of either.

pps: the problem with that experiment blurb you cited has less to do with sociology's difficulties with scientific methodology but with piss poor statistical reasoning. one study with one sub-set of data does not show definitive conclusion to broad based statements. what it can do though is show where another experiment can take off in covering the elements not explored. and even then it only works for a sub-set of data which would be part of a larger compilation to make a broad statement. so yes, someone made a huge jump of scientific logic to make that statement. but until there's enough data proving your otherwise, we only have a mere fraction to work with in developing hypotheses about relations of violence and gender.

[LoZoccolo]

118. Um, we are the society and culture.

And there are almost always countercultures which eventually have an influence on the larger culture.

[skooooo]

6. I think there's enough blame to go around... however -

..its difficult if you are uneducated about nutrition, blasted with commercials 24/7, are surrounded by processed food when you go to the grocery store, etc. to do anything but eat what you call "crap." The companies do chemically prepare their food to promote overeating, and that's not responsible.

[thoughtanarchist]

9. Try this:

Go to your nearest supermarket and pick up a loaf of bread at random.

Does the bread contain "High Fructose Corn Syrup"?

Was there any need to dump highly refined sugar into your bread?
It's bread for christ's sake.

Now try to find a loaf of bread WITHOUT high fructose corn syrup.

Now note the price difference between those two products.

Eating healthy is frickin' expensive. Are you still ready to place all blame squarely on the consumer?

[Radio_Lady]

39. Thoughtanarchist, you make a good point. I'm going to New Seasons

one of our local natural foods store -- today.

I'm going to look at ingredients carefully.

[thoughtanarchist]

58. Thanks RL...

The Thom Hartmann show woke me up to the ubiquitousness of refined sugars in our everyday foods and when I started paying attention I noticed that my kids became frustrated and excitable after eating junk food. It really affects their behavior!

[Jamastiene]

77. Right on.

I have been looking at healthy foods a lot lately for the sake of my own recent weight gain. I have gained about 15 pounds this last year even though I weighed 125 lbs. for most of my life until I went on Zoloft.

The best sweetener you can find is fresh fruits, but even those are tainted nowadays by bio-engineering and other supposedly safe procedures to keep them from rotting so fast. Healthy foods are just outrageously high for the lower middle incomes to be able to afford them.

[we can do it]

127. Good Point - But You Can Shop the Outlets - Great Bread Cheap

You can get good food fairly cheap, but you have to look for it - or ask around...there are reasonably priced farm markets, etc....

[Bluebear]

15. Try being poor in America

Really. You will be feeding your family 5-for-a-dollar macaroni and cheese for dinner.

Good food is expensive food. Ever notice how disproportionate obesity is with regards to income? Surely they are not just 'idiots that choose of their own free will to eat the crap.'?

[crikkett]

24. Here the Macaroni and Cheese is $.85/box to $1

And you're right. You should see the stuff that goes to the food bank.

My sister lives in Tallahassee, close to a community garden - a man tending his patch told me he can feed his family off of it for a fee of less than $100/yr. I wish community agriculture was more prevalent.

[IrateCitizen]

27. Agriculture is seen as a time-wasting, inefficient activity

Agriculture by its very nature clashes with modern, post-industrial society. It requires hard work, but even more so its work rhythms are totally opposite those of the factory or corporate workplace. It is an activity that puts you in greater contact with the earth rather than removing you from it. Furthermore, it is an activity that tends to slow life down -- something seen as bad in a "life comes at you fast" world.

It is for all of these reasons that I've become more interested in organic gardening and farming the last few years. However, I'm generally a guy who tries to oppose the status quo, so it's more fitting with my personal philosophy. ;-)

[RayOfHope]

52. I wish it were more prevalent too

But if people are working multiple jobs to make ends meet, they won't have time to garden, unfortunately.

[crikkett]

66. and there's the rub!

If you can grow your food there's less to pay for and so it's easier to make ends meet.

Organic tomatoes in the store: $4/lb.
Non-organic peppers in the store: $3/lb. Organic is even more expensive.

In the tiny patch in our backyard: less than $1/plant.
Time spent tending them/day: less than what's spent on the dog.

[we can do it]

129. It Really doesn't Take Much Time To Grow Some Veggies, Like Tomatoes

You don't need much room either, it just isn't encouraged or even suggested to people much any more.

[Jamastiene]

78. Well said.

Those of us who are poor can afford some healthy foods if we scrimp and save, but only on occasion. It's a shame really.

[mad-mommy]

140. very true...

my hubby and I have been saying this for years. You can buy a burger at a fast food place for a $1, but try buying a salad there. $4 +.

[IrateCitizen]

16. Of course you do ... but you'd be wrong...

;-)

I agree that part of the problem is that too many people choose to eat processed crap. However, much of the blame also goes toward food policy in general in this country. Our elected officials have chosen to subsidize corporate agribusiness that produces corn, soy and feedlot beef that are made into processed food products, and to give agriculture the shaft.

The choices individuals make do not occur in a vacuum. Cultural forces also contribute greatly to those choices. When people eat crap, they are partially expressing the values promoted by consumer society at-large -- that food is a fuel to be consumed, that time and work in preparing a meal are inefficient waste, and so forth.

For those of us that have the means to do so, I think we can both agree that it is imperative to support local producers and sustainable farming methods. Personally, I try to do this as much as possible -- to the extent that I've dived head-first into organic gardening. However, there is also a large segment of the population that can only afford to eat the foods that politicians choose to subsidized -- foods filled with high-fructose corn syrup and fat.

The Nation has an excellent collection of articles in this month's issue surrounding food. I am echoing some of the sentiments of that collection in my post -- however, they are ideas that I long ago came to embrace on my own. Perhaps one of the biggest benefits of reclaiming our food from corporate agribusiness would be a revitalization of community -- after all, food has been a binding force between humans for millenia, and it certainly can (and should) return to that place.

[CrispyQ]

86. You stated:

"When people eat crap, they are partially expressing the values promoted by consumer society at-large...that time and work in preparing a meal are inefficient waste, and so forth."

A few years ago, a popular comedienne said, "When I call out to the kids 'Dinner!' they grab their coats & head for the car."

[FormerDittoHead]

20. Obesity doesn't start at adulthood...

...those 3 years olds should know better than what simply tastes good and take personal responsility for their parents.

[IrateCitizen]

28. More importantly -- neither does advertising

Fast food merchants market directly to children now, in the hopes that the children will nag their parents to take them.

I see it in full effect with my SIL and 5-year-old nephew. They eat fast food a couple of times a week.

[Jamastiene]

79. Sometimes it does.

I was the ideal weight for 34 years of my life including my childhood. One of the side effects of my antidepressant is weight gain. I haven't gain an overly large amount of weight, but it's enough that I have noticed and I weigh more than I ever have now.

[KansDem]

42. Easy...you sound very much like a member of the benefits committee

...I serve on where I work.

He is over-weight and wonders if he's made the wrong "lifestyle choices." I tend to think he's weight problem stems from the lifestyle "sold" us by Corporate America for the last several decades. Don't forget that we've been literally bombarded with billion-dollar ad campaigns since we were wee lads to buy certain food and drink products. Little did we know in the '50s and '60s what effect corporate processed food had on children (C'mon, do you really believe now that "Wonder Bread builds strong bodies 12 ways?"). So now the corporate mantra from the health-care and insurance industries regarding health problems is "poor lifestyle choices." Just another way to evade responsibility: placing the blame on the consumer for consuming crap that was processed, packaged, marketed, and advertised with billions (trillions?) of $$$. Remember, too, that there was very little choice 30-50 years ago. Now we have more choice in organic and natural foods. Had we had this choice then many of us, including my co-worker, might not have the health problems we do today. I agree, there are very few reasons today, for making poor life-style choices (one might argue economic hardship), but at that time, the American Dream of "choice" was a Madison Avenue fabrication.

edited for spelling

[SoCalDem]

113. Cokes used to come in SIX ounce servings

not in the "vat-o-coke" sizes of today..
and an after school snack was a sandwich...not a bag of Doritos
most homes had 3 cereals in their cupboards...rice krispies, corn flakes & oatmeal
mega-stores had not arrived, so neighborhood grocers were frequented (almost european of us :)..)
a treat was ONE popsicle bought at the corner store..not a 12 pack in our freezers

freezers barely had room for much more than ice cube trays, so ice cream was not a "staple"..it was a TREAT...usually eaten when people ate out

times have changed...and it shows....on our bodies :cry:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. I blame slothfulness. It's a sin.

Take these mice, for instance. In a scientific study these mice were given the same diet and exercise. However, the mouse on the right was slothful and thus allowed the devil to enter his body and make him fat.

[Jamastiene]

80. Steroids.

Not the devil.

Still, funny post.
:rofl:

[Irreverend IX]

141. Actually, that's an "OB" mouse.

Stands for OBese. OB mice are the result of a scientific experiment where the part of the brain that tells you you've had enough food was lesioned in the mouse. The result was dramatic, as you can see.

[arikara]

101. Oh for pete's sake

Flour is just as bad as sugar and its in everything too. People are brainwashed to believe that a sugar and flour laden muffin is good for them or that a fat, sugar and chemical based "salad" from macdonalds is healthier than a big mac.

Education and deprogramming is what is needed, but blaming the victim is not very constructive.

[Odin2005]

137. The notion of social atomism is Libertarian rubbish.

You are using the same crap logic the Libertaian wackos use to justify letting the poor rot on the street. Our actions (ignoring genetic influences on our behavior) result from the society that we are raised in, and we are raised in a society where we are inundated with food comercials telling us to buy junk.

[lostnfound]

154. The blame also lies with $1 Billion in sugar subsidies and

to some extent with an extremely over-developed PR and marketing industry that has saturated every public space to bombard us with ads and sophisticated marketing.

subsidies:

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=108&subsecID=900003&contentID=253294

[OnionPatch]

156. I see your point but.....

So many of these foods would never have sugar in them if they were made traditionally and most people just don't know that so much of this stuff is added to so many of our foods. It would never occur to most people to look for sugar in food that isn't supposed to taste sweet.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

3. I'd like to see them stop dumping so much salt into everything. I can

work off the empty calories, luckily (but I know that's not so simple an option for everyone).

[Phx_Dem]

8. no kidding

I feel sorry for anyone who is trying to control sodium intake.

[Phx_Dem]

5. sugar rush/high is a myth

[skooooo]

7. Tell that to a 5 year old. nt

[Phx_Dem]

13. link to Duke university medical school

http://dukemednews.org/av/medminute.php?id=5282


http://amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/sugarhigh.html

[laundry_queen]

136. Those links are weak.

The first one talks about *1* study of people on calorie restricted high sugar diets. Yes, the AMOUNT of sugar has A LOT to do with the whole 'sugar high' theory. And calorie restricted means sugar restricted, since sugar is high in calories.

[crikkett]

11. no, it's not.

[grasswire]

44. baloney

I suggest you google the term "sugar sensitivity" and read up on the biochemistry of sugar and its unfortunate replacement for beta endorphins in the bodies of many people. I am fighting this condition in a 13-year-old family member and can tell you that she will go from calm/lethargic to spin cycle within moments of eating anything sugary.

[satireV]

115. Do you blame the inaminate object?

Or the biochemistry?

Let's see how sceintific and logical the answer is.

[PADemD]

64. I agree

When I eat too much sugar, it puts me to sleep.

[Dora]

93. That's the crash after the rush.

It's common, and it's why ice cream makes such a good bedtime snack for the children: it puts the tykes to sleep.

[Dora]

92. No, it's not.

If you have the time, do some reading about glycemic index values and how the body processes different sugars in different ways.

I followed your link, and IMO, it's pretty thin - regardless of the Duke Med affiliation.

[Nevernose]

130. I agree

I've read the same articles.

"Non-sequitur" and "post hoc ergo proctor hoc," among others, seem to apply to most of your responses.

Personally, if you suffer from lethargy, I blame vampires. Fuck science.

[crikkett]

10. Conversely an informed consumer is responsible not to buy

everything with sugar. Processed food won't sell if it's got less sugar in it because it will taste bad. BTW Processed food isn't good for you for more reasons than the sugar content.

[InvisibleTouch]

12. Sugar isn't even so awful...

...it's the high-fructose corn syrup that's the really bad stuff. And it's in everything - from unexpected items like bread and yogurt to the usual suspects like soft drinks. It's cheaper to produce than real sugar, and is used to keep baked items moist and to extend shelf-life. And of course it's super-sweet, which makes it addictive to any species that has evolved, as humans have, to zero in on the taste of "sweet" - because in nature that means high energy content. It's also an artificially produced product that the body doesn't really know what to do with - unlike natural sugar (sucrose) and regular fructose (fruit sugar). Even worse are the powdered artificial sweeteners - pure poison. I'd go with plain old sugar any day. It's possible to get organic cane sugar, but even the bleached and refined stuff is safer than the artificially concocted products.

There are some products I like that I still buy, in spite of the high-fructose corn syrup, but I'm trying to cut down on them, or find alternatives. Most ice cream brands have it, for instance, but some don't. A lot of the artificially sweetened items aren't essentials - I could live without Cherry Coke or Yoplait yogurt, for instance, and could bake my own bread, so I'm slowly trying to wean myself off. It's up to us as consumers to read the labels and vote with our wallets.

[SharonAnn]

41. Sugar is actually cheaper to produce than high-fructose corn syrup.

We are not allowed to buy sugar at the price the rest of the world pays for it, because of the sugar price subsidies. Much of that is for the Cuban families that grow sugar in Florida, draining the aquifer and polluting the Okefenokee, and voting for our right-wing regime. They donate lots of money to the Republicans and are "taken care" of in protecting the price of sugar.

If we paid the price the rest of the world does for sugar, we'd see that it's much cheaper than high-fructose corn syrup.

BTW, it's the reason Life-Savers candy moved to Canada. They wanted to continue to use sugar in their candy and the U. S. sugar price is prohibitive. They did not want to switch to high-fructose corn syrup.

And, there are studies that seem to show that high-fructose corn syrup is not metabolized like sugar and that it causes weight gain. Who would've guessed?

[InvisibleTouch]

50. Thanks for the added info!

That's very interesting. I've been through east Florida and have seen the sugar cane fields stretching to the horizon. It's a truly grotesque sight - monoculture in overkill. When I was last there, they must have been burning the leftover cane, or in any case were massively burning something, so the sky was additionally black with smoke.

Nice to know that about Life Savers, also. I'll have to take a look at the label next time I'm shopping.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

150. Sugar Cane is burned before harvesting...

The ability of farmers to burn sugarcane is a significant economic factor for the state’s sugarcane industry. Burning of sugarcane before harvest eliminates from 30 percent to 50 percent of the leafy trash (residue) that constitutes from 20 percent to 25 percent of the total weight of the plant.

For example, for a yield of 50 tons of sugarcane per acre, 10 to 15 tons of residue must be removed before milling. Controlled agricultural burning allows more efficient sugarcane harvesting in the field and improves sugar quality and recovery in the factory. The residue contributes very little to the production of sugar and has little or no economic value.
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/environment/conservation/burn_smoke/sugarcane/Prescribed+Burns+Help+the+Sugarcane+Industry+and+Reduce+Smoke+and+Ash+Problems.htm

Yes, I am the useless trivia queen! :evilgrin:

[KamaAina]

89. Um, how is that allowed under the WTO?

Seems to me that ought to cut both ways.

Even with the subsidies, there is almost no sugar production left out here; what little is left is mainly on Maui.

[SharonAnn]

144. See Florida

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Sigh

HFCS IS SUGAR! Sugar is sugar, from a caloric POV. Fructose is sugar! Sorry to burst this bubble of yours, but the cost of HFCS is low because it comes mostly from corn and soybeans and we have LOTS AND LOTS of those in this country.

Table sugar is sucrose. Fructose is a simpler sugar, similar to dextrose, which undergoes metabolism in the Krebs Cycle faster, because it takes longer to enzymatically decompose the molecule.

The HFCS objection may be sound from a financial point of view, but it isn't different THAN sugar. It's just a different KIND of sugar.
The Professor

[thoughtanarchist]

62. There is evidence that HFCS is metabolised differently than sugar.

One source here:

...

The digestion, absorption, and metabolism of fructose differ from those of glucose. Hepatic metabolism of fructose favors de novo lipogenesis. In addition, unlike glucose, fructose does not stimulate insulin secretion or enhance leptin production. Because insulin and leptin act as key afferent signals in the regulation of food intake and body weight, this suggests that dietary fructose may contribute to increased energy intake and weight gain. Furthermore, calorically sweetened beverages may enhance caloric overconsumption. Thus, the increase in consumption of HFCS has a temporal relation to the epidemic of obesity, and the overconsumption of HFCS in calorically sweetened beverages may play a role in the epidemic of obesity.

...


http://www.drmirkin.com/nutrition/3021.html

[shanti]

75. thank you!

hfcs is the culprit, not simple sugar.

[Lorien]

143. Yep. All the hypoglycemics in my family can attest to that (including

myself). I can eat an item made with sugar and I won't feel great in an hour or two, but I'll seem healthy enough. If I eat or drink ANYTHING with HFCS I sweat heavily, start to shake, and then come close to passing out. I know at least four other hypoglycemics (non related) who have the same symptoms after consuming HFCS. It's nasty stuff.

[Odin2005]

138. That's why I don't understand the HFCS thing.

HFCS is corn sap. it contains the same sugar (fructose) as fruits do. How can fructose from one be bad and fructose from the other be harmless? It makes no sense. Fructose is fructose, it is the exact same molecule wherever you find it.

[hedgehog]

158. It's not the molecule, it's the amount and surrounding material.

I would guess that the small amount of fructose encased in the sells of an apple along with fiber and starches is a little different than a slug of pure fructose in a carbonated drink as far as your body is concerned. The first is absorbed slowly while the second is practically injected.

[SharonAnn]

145. No, the world price of sugar is MUCH lower than HFCS. We'r enot

allowed to import it though, so we have to pay the artificially higher, price-supported price for sugar in this country.

That's why ADM lobbies so heavily. They're not into growing things cheaply. They're into buying politicans, buying legislation that favors them, and then taking advantage.

They support the sugar lobby and donate to politicians that keep the price of sugar high. I think they contribute much more than the sugar producers do.

The corn processor lobbying business is a sick, sick story with a long history. Remember the $100,000 cash that Nixon had in a safe during Watergate? That came from Andreas, chairman of ADM.

In 2000, Andreas' nephew was convicted in a world-wide price-fixing scheme (read The Informant - it's a great story and very well-written). When he appealed his sentence, the appellate judge said that it was a good thing the case wasn't being tried before him because he thought the sentence was completely inadequate for the seriousness and the egregiousness of his crimes. If he had the authority he would increase his prison sentence and increase his fines. He ruled against the appeal.

ADM and it's cronies were recently convicted of price-fixing again. I don't remember what it was this time, it happens so frequently that it's hard to keep track of it all. They're the same as Halliburton and have been at it for about as long.

[satireV]

117. High fructose conrn syrup is evil

I know!
I went to the factory and saw them install the evil!

[wickerwoman]

152. LOL

Seriously, though. It's nasty, nasty shit. I break out in hives if I go near it. Every time. Without exception. You can say "post hoc ergo propter hoc" and I don't pretend to be a scientist, but I do know my own experience. I was nearly hospitalized several times in college for heart palpitations and shortness of breath in the middle of the night (I was drinking a two liter bottle of Sprite a day at the time). They stopped as soon as I stopped drinking soft drinks. I stopped because my doctor was concerned about caffeine intake but I can drink pots and pots of tea (sweetened with honey) with no negative effects but caffeine free diet coke has the same effect on me as regular coke. Now if I eat or drink anything with HFCS I get hives on my wrists and neck and my eyelid swells up until I can barely see (this also happened back in college).

I was avoiding it way back before it was even in the news that it was dangerous. It's like tobacco- it took ages to prove that it was really dangerous, and then ages to prove that it was really addictive but people knew years before to stay away from it. And since the immune system isn't very well understood, there's no way to know for sure exactly how HFCS messes with us. But I can give you a load of empirical evidence. Just hop on a plane, hand me a Coke and I'll show you.

[napi21]

14. There's a problem with that though.

I worked for a health food mfg. for a lot of years, andtwice per year, the research group would proudly bring their new ideas to the home office to see what we thought. There were cookies, crackers, cereals, snacks, etc. Iremember tastinga snack cracker that looked like a small floor tile, but it tasted like one too! The cookies were awful and had almost no taste, cereals were marginally passable but you HAD to doctor them up with sugar. The only thing I can ever recall saying "HEY this is GOOD!" was some flavored popcorn. They had cheese, BBQ, & buttered flavors.

I remember my comment to the VP of research were ALWAYS "If it doesn't taste gooit won't sell!" I still believe that!!!

[SmokingJacket]

45. Processed food tastes like shit.

You have to sweeten it or add chemicals to add the flavor the processing takes out.

Answer: don't eat processed foods.

[NC_Nurse]

18. And irresponsible people eat it.

[Cassandra]

19. It's in there as a preservative...

and to keep the texture stable in shipping and storage. This doesn't make it good for you but it's not a conspiracy. That HFCS is used instead of sugar is caused by high corn subsidies. You may consider that part a conspiracy which values profits over health if you wish.

[SharonAnn]

146. No, it's cause by high SUGAR subsidies to keep SUGAR prices high

[IrateCitizen]

21. Read this excellent forum from The Nation on food in the US

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060911/waters

Then, go here:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060911/forum

[Rainscents]

169. Thanks for the links...

Great articles! I been eating organic foods for 16 years and also been stock up too, just in case, shit hits the fan. Right now, I have organic foods, it would last me for 10 years. I would much prefer to eat raw organic foods, however, when shit hits the fan, I have back up of lot of organic beans, organic can foods, organic rice, organic can tomato's, can salmons, can sardines, organic sugar, etc... All my friends are all stocking up and we been doing this for past 3 years. Every time I go to co-op, I buy few extra items to put away.

[Marr]

22. I think it's more to do with portion size, personally.

Americans eat too damn much food. Maybe the manufacturers put needless sugar into it as well- but Americans eat too much of it.

[napi21]

57. Boy do I agree with THAT! We don't go out to eat very often, but

I can't remember the last time I left a restaurant without a doggie bag! There's always enought left for a meal the next day, and sometimes I can do lunch &dinner the next day just from the leftovers!

I've always said I wish restaurants would offer different portion sizes. Granted, I've always been thin, but all of them bring a dinnerplate sooo full of food I wonder WHO could eat it all in one sitting????

[schmuls]

23. High fructose corn syrup, found everywhere, bypasses the insulin

mechanism and is stored directly in fat cells.

[IChing]

25. Check out Arizona green tea

The label says 17 grams of sugar per serving but later explains that there are 2 and half servings in it.

25 grams = 1 oz.

[schmuls]

26. MSG, a dangerous additive, is found in almost all processed food.

Those who defend it's use would have one believe "some people are allergic to it". It is an excitotoxin.

[savemefromdumbya]

123. MSG is BAD

[Beausoir]

29. 3 weeks ago I began cutting out all sugar in my nutrition. That fructose

corn syrup is freakin' EVERYWHERE!

It's even in the diet salad dressings! I had heard about it before and I know alot of people here have been railing against it but until I actually started paying attention to labels, I had no idea how prevalent it is.

Gack!

[Marr]

30. How's your diet going?

I'm curious- have you dropped a few pounds since you started?

I've never tried to cut out all sugar from my diet, but a few years ago I switched from regular Coke to Diet Coke and lost 7 pounds in about 2 weeks. It's crazy.

[Beausoir]

69. I've dropped about 10 pounds in 3 weeks. I had to quit the Coke too!

I was NOT happy about it. I even posted a thread about it in the Lounge. But, I have to say, I don't miss it THAT much.

First couple of days without sugar and I had a vicious headache. Gone now..along with 10 pounds.

[skids]

112. Look for Splenda Coke.

If you drink a lot of it you'll be doing yourself a favor. I switched from normal Diet Coke to Splenda a year or two ago and had a lot less headaches after ditching the nutrasweet. It's out there, though usually only in grocery stores and lately it's getting hard to find it in 2-liter bottles, just cans.

Really I should just switch to tea. Someday I guess.

[we can do it]

131. Just Quit Soda's - They Are Full of Crap

[skids]

134. Yeah well...

Incremental paths to better diets are more likely to be followed than drastic paths. FWIW.

[grasswire]

46. and there are lots of hidden sugars, too

I bought some "sugar-free" candy that then turned out to have 15 grams of "alcohol sugar" in it. Good luck!

[Lars39]

49. Saltines were my eye-opener.

Saltine recipes don't even call for a sweetener to be added, yet HFCS is in store-bought crackers.

[Beausoir]

70. Are you kidding? I never even thought to look! n/t

[SoCalDem]

74. make your own dressings. it's fast and super easy

People don;t do it anymore because today's consumers were taught (by media) that scratch cooking is a chore, a drudge, too hard, impossible, too time consuming..

Here's a great dressing.. takes about 45 seconds to make

olive oil
vinegar
crushed oregano
a smidge of salt
and sometimes
a squeeze of a juicy tomato

shake it up...and enjoy :)

[Beausoir]

88. Love the tomato idea! I usually make mine too.

Olive oil
fresh lemon juice
lemon pepper
salt
parmesan cheese.

Nice big tossed salad!

[SoCalDem]

90. I use this dressing for tomato wedges, sliced onion & cucumber cubes

YUMMMMMY..and after the cut veggies are eaten, we use the dressing for other salads..It has a great cucumber/oniony zest..

[calico1]

100. The media has also been successful in

convincing many people that scratch cooking is for suckers. And so have "cooks" like Sandra Lee. And they have also been very successful in convincing people that they simply don't have time to cook and they need McDonald's, KFC, etc. It's such a shame that scratch cooking is so frowned upon today. It is so much healthier and cheaper.

[SoCalDem]

111. and it can be faster too...

I mean how long does it take to peel some potatoes, heat up a pan or two and cook real food?

People rave about my cakes, even though they are not fancy..But then, I bake from scratch and make my own icing.. It's not rocket science..

I think people are afraid of "flops".. Flops can still taste good,m and be nutritious..even if they don't turn out "right"

Most dessert flops can be broken up into pieces, stirred into vanilla ice cream and spooned into a fancy dish, and no one knows you didn't plan it that way :)

[GardeningGal]

108. I know what you mean

I tried finding a bottled barbecue sauce and I could not find a single one, regardless of brand that did not contain HGCS. I ended up not buying any.

[CTyankee]

110. I never use bottled salad dressings. Only extravirgin olive oil and

wine or balsamic vinegar, white and red. I get brands that are imported from Italy. I don't trust American food companies.

[sweetheart]

32. "grab a food product"

I noticed that your post does not mention a single base food, potato chips, perhaps as
an abstraction of a potato, but really, when did food become all this brandname crap?
Because fresh foods go bad quicker than artificially preserved ones, and the supply
chains prefer to push the 'food products' rather than pushing the foods.

I can get some potatos, some beef steaks, some fish filets, and rice, where no
unnatural sugars are present (beef hormones from american beef aside)... but i guess
what i'm ovserving, but 'food products' are the problem, and getting back to food is
the way beyond obesity.

[sandnsea]

34. Many people have no idea

You can blame people for not knowing, but it isn't like this is that big of a news item. Even people who try to eat more fruit and vegetables may pick up canned because it's cheaper, not knowing that the sugar and salt in them make them almost useless. Try to buy lower sodium or natural juice products, the price almost doubles. A combination of low price and lack of a real education program sets low income people up to always be eating the lowest quality foods, and then blame them when they're overweight, lethargic, depressed and sick.

[Avalux]

35. NOT sugar, high fructose corn syrup.

It's in EVERYTHING. This compound wasn't even in food products 30 years ago, but just try to find something that doesn't contain it, unless it's a fresh food item of course.

The stuff is evil.

[satireV]

119. it IS evil!

I went to the factory and they had this big black machine that was installing the EVIL!!!

[Tracer]

36. I'm no food fanatic ...

... nor am I a particularly good cook, but ---

there are almost no packaged foods in my kitchen.

I'm willing to bet that almost any dish can be made better and more inexpensively at home. The portions will give you leftovers and will taste a heck of a lot better.

Don't tell me that Kraft Mac & "cheese" that only feeds two not-very-hungry kids, is better than an entire box of plain macaroni (at .99) mixed with your own cheese, that would feed an army.

[Radio_Lady]

40. Here's some interesting background material on HFCS...

http://www.thenutritionreporter.com/fructose_dangers.html



The Nutrition Reporter™
by Jack Challem
All rights reserved. Copyright © 1995

Maybe Not So Natural...and Not So Safe

If you consider fructose a safe, natural sugar, think again. You've been had by one of the biggest nutritional bait-and-switch ploys in years.

Fructose and high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) have been aggressively promoted as natural sugars. After all, we've been taught since childhood that fructose is fruit sugar.

The truth is that fructose and HFCS, as large-scale commercial sweeteners, didn't exist 20 years ago. Now, they're almost as common as sucrose-plain old white sugar. HFCS is routinely added to processed foods and beverages including Coca-Cola, Snapple, and many health food products.

"Fructose is not from fruit. It's a commercial, refined sugar," asserted Robin Rogosin, a buyer and research coordinator at Mrs. Gooch's Natural Foods Market in Beverly Hills, Calif.

MORE AT LINK ABOVE...

[misternormal]

43. The large companies...

... hire psychologists to study the behavior of those likely to use their product... The information is then used in advertising and R&D...

While I agree that it is mostly personal responsibility, these companies do rely on the information supplied by the "hired shrinks" to help them make more money.

After all is said and done, that's what it's all about anyway.

[AnnieBW]

48. Not sugar

Try "high fructose corn syrup".

[VelmaD]

51. Has anyone on this thread even mentioned exercise up til now?

If they have...I missed it.

Yes, the crap in our food is a problem. As is portion size. And the price of healthy food. But you also have to talk about the sedentary lifestyle of many Americans. You can't burn off those calories if all you do is sit on your butt and watch tv or play video games or surf the internet. Partly I blame a car-centric society and poor city planning that makes walking to do anything virtually impossible. And partly I blame people because we all know what we need to do. It's just that most people don't want to do it.

I can speak to this. I used to weigh in at 300 lbs (I'm about 5'6"). I lost half my body weight in the course of a couple of years through eating healthy and exercising. I know how hard it was to get off the couch. I know how hard it is to give up the food that tastes SO good but is SO bad for you. But all those years I was big... I knew what I needed to do. I just didn't do it.

I know some people are going to yell at me now. About how not everyone who is overweight eats badly or doesn't exercise. You won't be telling me anything I don't know. My best friend for the last 20 years has both Type I and Type II diabetes and her weight and diet bear no relationship to each other. But for most people this is not the case.

[RumpusCat]

65. Yes- Exercise!

It's an essential part of weight loss and health but a lot of people won't do it. But, back to the class-based issues of cheap food vs. expensive good-for-you-food, exercise can be an expensive and time-consuming hobby that many people just can't afford. Gym fees are outrageous and even if you are lucky enough to live near a decent YMCA and afford that you still have to find someone to watch your kids while you go. However, there are plenty of people who do have the freedom and the money and still won't do exercise.

I run because it's about as cheap an exercise as you can find--all you really need are decent shoes. There's no way I can afford gym fees right now. I don't have any dependents, tho', and so can go running for two hours on a weeknight if I feel like it.

[Critters2]

97. Doing yard work, house work, and walking will do the job

if done consistently. I've never belonged to a gym in my life (I live across the street from the Y, but have never ventured in), and have ideal weight for my height and low blood pressure. And I eat all the HFCS I want (I'm supported by producers of HFCS). It doesn't cost a thing to exercise.

[Critters2]

95. Exactly

You can give up HFCS completely, but if you sit on your ass all the time and continue to eat--at all--you'll gain weight. Discipline is hard work.

[ItNerd4life]

102. Congratulations, it's not easy.

What disgusts me is seeing 300 lb parents with children that have the exact same round figure. Get out and shoot baskets, or throw a ball. My kids are athletic, because I tought them to be.

I'm happy to hear you got your life together and now probably enjoy it a lot more.

[we can do it]

133. Good For You VelmaD - You Have the Key - Its Simple

Eat real food and move around.

[OnionPatch]

157. No one is saying it's not important

but we're talking about the eating part of the puzzle. One can exercise regularly, but if they eat these processed foods constantly, they're going to have to exercise much more just to stay at a normal weight.

[JI7]

168. exercise is important, but nutrition is much more when it comes to weight

if i food that is nutritious and not exercise i see more positive results than if i eat junk and do exercise.

of course the best combination would be to eat well and exercise.

but overall i think nutrition accounts for at least 80 percent of a person's weight.

[Cerridwen]

53. Check out all the names for sugar used on ingredient labels.

Sugar

Here are some tips for reducing sugar in your diet, which makes more room for more nutritious foods.

At the supermarket

* Read ingredient labels. Sugar should not be less than the fourth ingredient. Identify all the sugars in a product (sucrose, honey, glucose, molasses, dextrose, corn sweetener, fructose, high-fructose corn syrup, lactose, maltose, sorghum syrup, mannitol, fruit juice concentrate, sorbitol). Select items lower in added sugars when possible. link

Some of those may be natural, but to one watching their sugar intake for health or weight issues, they are still "sugar".



edit to add emphasis to list.

[Catherine Vincent]

54. When companies sell food to become rich, we're screwed.

What happened to selling food for availability?

[calico1]

55. Mostly good points made here.

One I'd like to ad is that cooking from scratch has become a lost art. I know that a lot of people still cook, but many, many more compared to 30 or 40 years ago don't....at least not from scratch like my parents did. In my house the things from boxes and cans were stuff like pancake mix, some Campbell's soup and a few other things here and there. My parents BOTH worked. Both blue collar so we were not rich by any means. My dad worked shifts so there was always one parent home. They cooked...real potatoes, unprepared and non instant rice, slow cooking oatmeal. Vegetables and fruit was whatever was in season. Of course back then that's what you got..what was in season. And we ate leftovers. My dad was the good cook but my mom was talented putting leftovers together and making a tasty meal. They were both busy but eating out was a rare occurrence and fast food even more rare. A lot of couples were busy then and had a lot of responsibilities and less modern conveniences (like microwaves, which no one had in the 60's). Yet they cooked. I think the whole attitude toward food has changed so much and that is one of the problems. A lot of people today consider fast foods and convenience foods necessities that they can't do without. Forty years ago people just didn't think that way. We also expended so much more energy just doing necessary activities. We walked to school. My dad and the other dads shoveled snow from the sidewalk, they didn't have snow blowers, leaf blowers, weed whackers, etc. And the mower was a push mower which was not self propelled. People struggled with tight budgets back then too. But the idea of fast and convenience foods as necessities did not exist. I think that this is one of the issues we have today that contribute to the obesity problem. They are "necessities" which we have made necessities, even though years ago very busy people without modern conveniences and big families somehow managed without them.

[SoCalDem]

76. that's it exactly.. and things that people eat every day now, were treats

We rarely had pizza...no one delivered
soft drinks were a rarity in our household
chips were for a side dish with a sandwich..never as a snack
the frozen food sections at grocery stores were about 1/20th of the size they are now..

[midnight]

56. I heard it was the corn syrup.

Essentially it makes your body feel like it is in starvation mode, and supposedly you eat more of it.

[MadHound]

63. Well, I highly doubt that corporations are going to be more responsible

Therefore it is up to us,the consumer to be more responsible. Eat less processed foods, eat more veggies and fruits. Rather than buying your food at a grocery store chock full of HFC, instead go buy your food at a local farmer's market, or better yet, grow your own food. Rather than sitting on your ass waiting for corporate America to do something about this, get up, go out and do something about it yourself.

[aikoaiko]

68. I blame evolution

:sarcasm:

[SoCalDem]

71. HFCS is the worst culprit.. not so much as sugar

but you're right.. there's sweetening in almost everything...even stuff that;s already sweet :(

[Critters2]

98. HFCS is sugar. nt

[Cleita]

72. There has to be another reason besides the classic fat , starch

and calories reason. When I was a kid in the forties, there were very few fat kids in my school or anywhere actually. My family moved and traveled a lot so I went to several schools. Most of us were downright skinny, but our diet consisted of starch and gravy laden casseroles, or meat stretchers as they were called, that women fed their families in those days, not to mention roasts or fried chicken on Sunday with lots of animal fat based gravy. Also, there was plenty of white bread and butter, whole milk and pie or cake for dessert.

Our lunch was mostly peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or any variety of bolognas or salamis. There was a nickel for candy or ice cream on the way home from school. Yet, hardly anyone was fat. Sure there was always one Cartman kid in every school but that was not the norm. Today I watch the kids come off the school bus and about a third of them are Cartmans. I was blaming it on the growth hormones they give to livestock these days to fatten them up, but you have a really good point too.

[calico1]

83. I do think the growth hormones also contribute.

They didn't use them back when you were a kid. Even when I was a kid 20 years later I can still remember the milk we had delivered having cream on the top and the chickens being much smaller. Look at little girls now who develop breasts so early! I had no breasts at all until I was around 12. Look at all the little 10 year olds who use bras now! You didn't see that years ago. The hormones definitely have something to do with this too.

[hedgehog]

94. but, but, they tell us that the hormones in the animal feed are harmless!

And the hormones given to force the cows into doubling milk production have no effect on humans, either! I can remember reading an essay by a "nut-case" allergist twenty years ago describing the hazards of hydrogenated vegetable oils. Back then, every leading nutritionist claimed a fat was a fat was a fat.The nut case made sense to me, so I never cooked with anything but butter or alive oil since then.

Most of the processed foods I buy come out of the organic section of our grocery store. It's not so much that they are organic but that every ingredient on the list is something I could readily find in my kitchen. Sometimes it's nice to grab a jar of tomato sauce to make a quick dinner.

[calico1]

96. That's right. And those same nutritionists were

telling us to use "healthy" margarine instead of butter. Sometimes it's the nutcases that you have to listen to. Remember the Food Guide Pyramid is designed by the Dept. of Agriculture not the Dept. of Health and Human Resources. Gee. I wonder what the main interests of the Dept. of Agriculture are? :think:

[fed-up]

81. Almost all corn syrup is made from genetically engineered corn-info below

http://www.navdanya.org/dwd/campaign-corn-syrup.htm

snip..

This sweetener is being used in many products as a substitute for other sugars, including in products, which were formerly not sweetened. This corn syrup has spread through the food supply in the United States and is moving into the food of other countries as well High Fructose corn syrup has replaced sure beet and sugar cane as the sweetener of choice in large transnational food products. Sugar from corn is easy and cheap to produce. Basically you treat corn with an acid and it becomes sugar. High Fructose Corn Syrup is very stable, retains moisture, doesn’t crystallize easily, and mixes will with other ingredients. And, more importantly, it is much cheaper that sucrose.


...snip

The product has several drawbacks. Research shows that HFCS can raise triglyceride levels, which may increase the risk of heart disease. In one study a diet with 17% of energy as fructose raised triglycerise levels in men by 32%3. Another study by researchers in Hawaii found that fructose rich diets have deleterious metabolic effects, including, including glucose intolerance, insulin resistance, dyslipidemia and liver dysfunction4. The global increase in diabetes, and particularly early onset diabetes, can certainly be related to the American diet. The WTO is not the place… …to be making decisions regarding how people will work, feed themselves or share their common inheritance of this planet because there is no place for public input. Decisions within the WTO, following the neo-liberal economic ideology are discussed, conceptualized and responsible to the idea of what advances market forces. Decisions about the use of resources, for example, the use of the planet’s water, the safety and accessibility of food, health care and education must remain in public hands if there is to be a democracy.

In addition, HFCS use undoubtedly contributes to the obesity epidemic in the United States, it is addictive, as are all sugars5. This is the reason why children prefer some of the spaghetti products that have high levels of HFCS to homemade spaghetti.

It is no surprise that the largest producer of foods that stock the shelves of super markets, foods high in HFCS, is the corporate giant, Philip Morris. This company, you may remember, was also the corporation that knowingly peddled addictive substances in the form of cigarettes.


more at above link


http://www.safe-food.org/-consumer/enzymes.html

Genetically Engineered Enzymes

Enzymes are naturally occurring proteins that speed up biochemical processes. They're used to produce everything from wine and cheese to corn syrup and baked goods. Enzymes allow the manufacturer to produce more of a particular product in a shorter amount of time, thus increasing profit.

Generally, the use of enzymes is beneficial. In some cases, they can replace harmful chemicals and reduce water and energy consumption in food production. However, enzymes produced by genetically engineered organisms are cause for concern. Not enough is known about the long-term effects of these enzymes on humans and the ecosystem for them to be used across the board.

FDA regulations on enzyme use is a gray area. Enzymes used in the processing of foods do not have to be listed on product labels because they are not considered foods. Also, when enzymes are genetically engineered, the manufacturer is not required to notify the FDA that the enzymes have been modified. The lists of GE enzymes known by the FDA is, by their own admission, "probably incomplete."

Worldwide, the enzyme market is a $1.3 billion industry. One of the largest enzyme manufacturers are Novo Nordisk, which manufactures GE and non-GE enzymes. You can contact Novo Nordisk (U.S.) at [e-mail] and let them know your views on genetic engineering.


...snip

more at above link


if you have time just google: genetically engineered corn syrup

[Zynx]

85. Magic Weight Loss Plan: Take in fewer calories.

[Critters2]

99. You and your damn logic!!

No conspiracies, no evil corporations. Just eating right and exercising. Who do you think you are?!

[ItNerd4life]

103. LOL. I thought everything was a conspiracy!

How dare you ruin my day by telling me it's not a conspiracy. I'm going to eat a donut.:bounce:

[Critters2]

106. Go right ahead

but you'll have no one but yourself to blame--yourself and Archer Daniels Midland.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. *Gasp!* Personal Responsibility? *Gasp* Bite Your Tongue Hethen!! LOL

[we can do it]

135. That Would Be Too Simple - Its easier To Blame Others

[wickerwoman]

153. Gosh! Why didn't I think of that?

Do you honestly believe that the 40% of American who are obese got that way because they simply didn't realize they need to eat fewer calories? Is your theory that they are remarkably stupid or that they have been living on the moon for the past 30 years?

More than 95% of diets fail. Is that because 95% of people are stupid or because 95% of people have no will power? If 95% of people failed their SATs or their driving exam would our conclusion be that 95% of people shouldn't go to college or drive? Or would we start looking at whether or not the test was fair?

How much weight have you lost and how long have you kept it off? (And I don't want to hear about all the weight you "would" gain if you didn't exercise so much and restrict your diet.)

[Critters2]

159. Me, I've never had to be on a diet

I have always eaten a healthy diet, and I walk to as many things as I can--avoid driving when possible--and I do housework and yard work. I weigh what every chart says I should. A few years ago, I decided I'd like to lose a few pounds and went to a Weight Watchers meeting. They sent me home, saying it wouldn't be healthy for me to lose weight.

So, I've never had a diet fail. I've never dieted. I just eat a healthy combo of fats, carbs and proteins...and exercise.

[wickerwoman]

165. I never would have guessed it.

You do realize that losing weight is significantly more difficult than keeping it off in the first place?

I was overweight by the time I was eleven. In my house, we ate vegetables (usually frozen corn) literally once a week. I was a latchkey kid from the age of seven. I got home from school at three and my parents didn't get back from work until almost seven. By five my brother and I were ravenous so we ate whatever was around that seven year olds could cook- usually hot dogs, hamburgers or lunchmeat sandwiches with potato chips on the side. What was I supposed to do- take money out of my parents' purse and skip down to the farmer's market to buy some produce to prepare from scratch?

I was obese by college, where I lived in a dorm with no stove and only a mini-fridge so I ate Chinese take-out because it had vegetables and I thought it was healthy.

Since I got my own apartment, I have been eating real health food non-stop- ten servings of fruits and veggies a day. I have never owned a car and I walk more than an hour every day. I swim and work out. I do my own housework. I lost about 50 pounds on South Beach and have kept it off for 3 years but I've pretty much hit a wall with 40 pounds still to go.

It absolutely is not as simply as "just eat less". When I really started to pack on the pounds (in college) I was eating almost nothing. I didn't eat breakfast. I often skipped lunch because I wasn't really that hungry and I was trying to lose weight. And then I'd hit a wall in the late afternoon and make a run for Chinese take-out- a pint of white rice, a pint of beef with broccoli and a big bottle of Sprite. And that was it. The problem was that everything I was eating was sugar, fat and white rice. But I didn't have a kitchen or any idea how to cook so what else was I supposed to do?

I don't mean to go off on you, but it really pisses me off when smug assholes who have been thin their entire lives act like they're morally superior to people who have been struggling with weight their entire lives. Do you honestly think that fat people know less about dieting than you do and that that's why they're fat?

[distantearlywarning]

175. You tell 'em!

:yourock:

[BenDavid]

87. Bill Mahr was right!

Too much damn sugar and other sugars in food....

[StrictlyRockers]

104. Just TRY to find a loaf of bread in the store with NO sugar in it.

TRY. Keep trying. Try harder....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

107. Oh What A Crock. Obesity Is A Huge Problem Because Of Irresponsibility,

period.

There are some who are obese due to uncontrollable physical/genetic reasons. But there are far many more who are obese of their own doing and their own choices. Putting the blame elsewhere will always be nothing more than hilariously silly to me.

[Lars39]

120. As usual your compassion for your fellow man shines through.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

124. This Has Nothing To Do With Compassion.

I wasn't being uncompassionate, as my statements had nothing to do with such a level. It is simply in reference to a weak excuse for a personal issue. I have compassion for those that have weight problems based on factors beyond their control. But that does not in any way mean that I have to condone or accept as valid excuses that blame foods on the market for those who do not have uncontrollable issues. The fact is, many or most obese people are that way due to their own actions. Course, that's their choice and it's really none of my business what they do, but I'm not going to pretend that it is an issue beyond their control due to evil evil marketing when that clearly is false in most cases.

[canichelouis]

125. The bottom line on US fat

Gov't subsidizes food that is unhealthy in large amounts = cheap = corn + wheat for example =sugar + carbs + frying oil

Gov't does not subsidize 'healthy' foods = expensive = variety of vegetables for examples

[Codeine]

121. Blah blah blah

Ohmigod! Sugar, sugar EVERYWHERE! :eyes:

Just eat less god-damned food! Fewer calories mean fewer pounds, with or without the mighty power of corn syrup. You really don't need to eat as much as you do if you're an overweight person; I watch people eat sickening amounts of food every day while consuming ungodly amounts of soda pop and I'm supposed to believe they got grotesquely obese because there's a magic sugar genie slipping an extra teaspoon of sweetener into their dinner?! I call bullshit on that one.

It's not the sweetener in the meal, it's the fact that the meal is big enough for three people and a medium-sized dog that's making people jumbo-sized.

[Critters2]

122. Hear! Hear! nt

[laundry_queen]

139. You obviously have NO idea

how the whole sugar/insulin cycle works, or you wouldn't laugh at people eating so much. See, *I* know when I have a soda, I'm going to get a huge insulin surge in about a half hour that's going to make me completely ravenous in an hour, so I make sure I have protein with it to buffer the effect. Someone who knows nothing about the cycle, will just think, "gee, I'm starving!" and eat WAY more than they should, because the excess insulin in their blood (from the over reaction to the high sugar from the soda) will really make their body think it's STARVING. So they eat a huge meal, and usually something that contains tons of carbs and white flour products and probably HFCS, and it takes MORE to be satiated with that much insulin coursing through your bloodstream. And the reaction to an extra big meal is what ??? oh that's right MORE insulin. More hunger, less satiety repeat ad infinitum.

Trust me having BTDT, that hunger is real. Growling stomach, shaking hands from hypoglycemia, the works. Before I knew what was wrong with me, I couldn't figure out why I was SOOO hungry all the time. The cure? Healthy, high fiber, lowER carbs (not low carb, lowER) that come from mainly vegetable sources, and a healthy dose of protein at each meal. Smaller meals too, to lessen the chances of an insulin surge. This plan, which I had to SEEK out, and research, is working fine for me. I dropped some weight before I got pregnant and feel really good when I eat like that. But how many people have access to this information? Plus the first week eating like this is hellish from being so hungry until your insulin levels adapt.

It's just so easy to tell people to eat less.
You sound like my skinny mother.

Edited for typo. Probably missed a few too. lol.

[distantearlywarning]

164. I eat that way too.

I feel a lot better now than when I was eating a high-carb, low-fat diet. I had some of the same symptoms - starving between meals, feeling incredibly faint and sick, hands shaking when I waited too long to eat. I was having grey-outs sometimes when I stood up too fast. It was horrible. And I was still gaining weight. For a while I thought I had some horrible disease or was on the verge of diabetes or something. I even had a lot of tests done at the doctor's office to try to figure out what was wrong with me. Eventually I did some research on my own and realized that my problems probably were related to GI spikes and inappropriate fat/carb/protein ratios.

Now I eat correctly (for me at least) and feel 100% better. I eat more lean protein at every meal than is recommended by the "nutritionists" out there, but I don't feel sick half the day anymore. I feel hungry because I'm still restricting calories a little every day, but not so hungry that I feel like I can't even function in public. And I'm losing weight now (finally!), slowly but surely.

It's damn hard to eat that way, though! I never noticed until I started trying to work on this problem how many high GI carbs Americans are expected to eat with a "normal" diet. This is especially true of breakfast. I have to eat really weird things for breakfast to get enough protein to appropriately match the carbs in even high-fiber breakfast foods. Oatmeal and such is better, but a person can't eat only oatmeal every morning forever. It's a struggle sometimes to try to figure out what to eat. But it's worth it - I don't feel ill and faint at 10:30 every morning anymore.

Anyway, it's not always just about calories. Some of us need other things too to lose weight effectively. Please also see my post here about this issue: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x5580680#5583139 . And I totally agree with the OP. Yes, willpower is necessary for weight loss. But if we as a society, are REALLY that concerned about obesity as a major social problem, we should be thinking of ways to make it easier for others to lose weight instead of blaming them for failing to read every single label of every food product they buy in detail and not understanding the full implications of eating every ingredient.

Further, if every package of bread in the store contains high fructose corn syrup, it's not really fair to ask 60% of Americans (all of us who are overweight) to just not eat bread any more, or to chide us for being "lazy" or making excuses or whatever when we demand healthier bread. Also, children have no control over what is fed to them, nor do they have the knowledge to know that high fructose corn syrup in their bread might make them fat. Much of the obesity problem in America today is among the young. Even if you just can't stand the idea that the disgustingly piggy people you are forced to live with get to eat real bread, perhaps you might feel more sympathy for children who are being fed high fructose corn syrup everything by their ignorant parents.

Or then again, maybe not. It might just be more fun for some people to sit in judgment of others because of the way they look.

[Lorien]

142. In a nutshell: High fructose corn syrup is SUBSIDIZED by the government

those companies are PAID to put that crap in processed foods. Solution; don't eat processed foods. I quit when I developed hypoglycemia and fibromyalgia. I have a pretty limited diet, but I feel great and my weight is pretty much where it should be.

[philosophie_en_rose]

151. Sugar and salt are in everything. (not to mention corn syrup)

It is truly amazing what is in processed foods. However, so many products that could reasonably be assumed to be natural are filled with corn syrup, salt, or sugar.


For instance - Dasani water has salt in it. Who would guess?

[orpupilofnature57]

166. Corn Syrup , a silent killer

[philosophie_en_rose]

174. Absolutely. Someday the Corn Industry will own all of us.

:)

[RB TexLa]

162. Then how are there people who are not obese?

:shrug:

[JI7]

167. not everyone is affected the same

some people have a hard time gaining weight no matter what and how much they eat. and some people easily gain weight.

and some people are just more informed about nutrition. this is where education and income level come in.

but so many people are just uninformed about what is good. they think just because something says fat free you can eat a lot of it and it wont affect you. some even think fat free= healthy.

a lot of people think fruit juice is good for you and better than soda, but in reality a lot of fruit juice contains a lot of sugar and isn't that good for you.

[distantearlywarning]

176. I don't think we understand weight gain and weight loss very well.

There's no doubt it's partially about food. For a lot of people, if you eat more, you gain weight and vice-versa. But not always. And there's a tremendous amount of variation between people that just CAN'T be explained by the calories in vs. calories out hypothesis.

EXAMPLE: I had two friends in high school. I was at a normal weight for a young woman of my height. One of my friends was much skinnier than I was, and the other was much, much fatter.

I know what these two girls ate, because we hung around a lot together. The fatter one had a diet much like mine -not very good, but she certainly didn't eat entire buckets of fried chicken at a sitting or anything like that. It was always a mystery to me how she and I could each eat the same amount of french fries and a coke after school every day and I weighed 112 lbs and she weighed 200. Yes, her diet wasn't very good. Neither was mine. But why was she fat and I wasn't? I remember my mother commenting on her one time after she came to my house for dinner, saying, "that girl, why did she put sour cream on her baked potato when she weighs that much?", and I was thinking, "yeah, but I did too and I don't look like that", and being confused.

The really skinny girl, who weighed in the mid 90's at 5'7" all the way through HS and college, ate MUCH worse than either of us. When she was in college, her favorite meal was an entire box of mac-and-cheese made with butter, combined with green onions and real bacon. This was a daily meal for her. She was a Coke fanatic and bought it by the case. If I had to guess, she probably drank a six pack a day. She worked at Burger King and ate a Whopper meal at least once a day. She did do some exercise, but not more than I did (which was not much).

In short, the second girl ate like she weighed 400 lbs. Of the three of us, she was the "laziest", the most irresponsible, the most horrible person, etc (at least according to the mindset of the puritanical fat haters). And yet she was so skinny people would ask her if she had an eating disorder. The first girl ate like a normal teenager with a bad diet and was obese. I ate like a normal teenager with a bad diet and was at the skinny end of normal. How the f*** does this make sense via the calories in vs. calories out hypothesis???? The truth that the haters don't want to hear is that it doesn't. If the fat girl eats better than the skinny girl they don't have any justification for making fun of her, so they're going to write this and other similar examples off as "anomalies".

Anyway, this kind of thing makes no sense to me, and I have yet to hear any medical professional address this sort of example in any reasonable way. And it's not uncommon - people relate lots of stories like this every time these threads come up on DU.

I would like to see the scientific community really take a good hard look at the role of individual differences in weight gain and loss. Why are some people not obese and others are? Why? We should know that before we automatically assume that every skinny person is a incredibly disciplined person with good character and every fat person is a disgusting mess.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

163. As always, blame the electorate.

Trying to blame companies for the fact that one has been eating an unhealthy diet is just silly.

[renate]

170. so many people think it's just about calories

As many people on this thread have mentioned, it's about the types of food they eat.

I'm fortunate enough, genetically and behaviorally, to have never had a problem with my weight (I'm neither skinny nor heavy, just in between). My parents were aware of nutrition (as compared with calories) from the time I was an infant, and only gave me healthy food, without regard to calories. That I'm not heavy purely means I'm lucky in that my parents were well informed. (Well, that and my degree in nutrition.)

100 calories of sugar is not equivalent to 100 calories of protein, due to the effect of sugar on insulin levels (and therefore hunger). Very few people know that. It's not necessarily a failing on their part--they've been misinformed by quick-fix diet gurus and out-of-date nutritionists. For years dieticians told clients that all calories were created equal in terms of weight gain.

[BlooInBloo]

172. Yah - and they tie people down and force it down their throats too!

The evil bastards!

[NuttyFluffers]

173. look into hydrogenated fats as well.

that stuff is a kiss away from being the plastic your tupperware is made out of. ever wondered why shortening can last essentially forever? note how *nothing* else wants to consume it -- not fungus, not bacteria, not mice, nothing. we are the only suckers who eat the stuff.

great story about my friend as a chef in cooking school: the only reason they bother covering the big vat of shortening is to keep the dust off. once a student forgot to cover it after everyone was cleaning the kitchen. the instructing chef, when they discovered the error on return from the weekend, didn't go ballistic. why? because nothing is going to bother trying to contaminate it. just scoop off the top layer where dust might have gathered and then dig right back in. "now, if it were butter" the instructor chef said, "heads would roll. but it's only shortening; it's cheap, it won't rot, and nothing else wants to eat it." needless to say pastry chefs DESPISE shortening. but it turns a profit for gargantuan batches -- best way to make an assload of pastries, be cheap, and keep on the shelf (yeah, that non-rotting thing again).

ps: don't buy that crap that twinkies really do rot. in my old high school we have a twinkie hanging between the bio + physics classrooms since 1976. it's a little dry around the outer sponge, and the cream went a touch yellow with the sun, but it's still there. nice, and possibly edible, since the day it was hung up on a wire 20+ years ago. saw that damn thing for 4 years during my high school days -- never rotted -- so i can sure as hell believe not rotting for 20+. oh, and i finished high school around 10 years ago.