"I personally know...he took the [just born] child and drowned it"

[Cerridwen]

"I personally know of a woman who had a baby...that was deformed, he took the child and drowned it. This was condoned by the FLDS leadership." Elaine - Warren's sister

"I spent 17 years being beat by my mother 'cause I wouldn't be obedient to my father ...and he wanted me in his bed...I never will back down" unnamed woman on video

"The LDS and the FLDS, uh...go by the same books" Jennie - escapee

"To me, Colorado City is a classic example of what happens when a theocracy takes over a government. You end up with massive, massive corruption and abuse of human rights" unnamed man on video

watch the video trailer found at this link

edit: to thank wakeme2008 for the link in this post

[I Have A Dream]

1. The video trailer was very interesting. Thanks for posting it! n/t

[Cerridwen]

6. wakeme2008 gave me the idea for the link.

Watching the trailer took care of the motivation.

:nuke:

[MADem]

2. But....but....but

Don't those wimmens just WANT to live that lifestyle, all fightin' over some old smelly coot? Isn't it a matter of CHOICE?? And so what if the girls are teenagers? Don't teenagers have sex all the time? And if their parents give permission, why, that makes it OK, doesn't it?

If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic in the extreme, please be assured that this is the case.

I watched that nitwit Fucker Carlson on TV the other day, making essentially these same arguments with regard to these assholes.

I say castrate the bastard, one paper cut at a time, while letting the rest of them know that they're next.

That'll teach him to keep his dick in his pants and leave those children alone!

[Cerridwen]

4. Ah yes, the old "rape is a choice" argument.

"Just lay back and think of England" advice.

[William769]

3. And some people were bitching here that one of their kind

Was on the top 10 FBI's most wanted list. :eyes:

[Cerridwen]

5. Yeah, I saw a LTTE today in which the writer,

was saying much the same thing. He thinks the FBI "wasted money" hunting down Jeffs.

His argument was that Jeffs was only "marrying under age girls to of-age men".

:evilfrown:

[chefgirl]

14. I sort of agree, although probably for a different reason..

These people really make my skin crawl, especially this Jeffs scumbag.

Any man who makes it his business to keep women uneducated, subservient, dependent and blindly obedient is a psychopath, in my book.
To me, its obvious, its all about the power, not just the power over women, but the men in these cults too.

What always goes through my mind, though, is how many men willingly perpetrate this scam on the women of their own families. Their daughters, sisters, nieces, etc...

Its understandable that the females who are born and raised into this bullshit dont know any better, or are too frightened to question the motives of the group, but what about the people who grew up in the outside world, and chose this way of life? They are the ones who are well aware of how perverted and immoral they and their 'leaders' are, yet buy into it completely. What compels people like them??

So, I said all that to say this.I DO think it will ultimately be a waste of money for the FBI to have gone after Jeffs if they don't then follow up on the rest of this group, and groups like them.

Its my understanding that Jeffs only gained power over this group because his father was ill and subsequently died, so it stands to reason that with him gone, another will just as easily move into his place if law enforcement allows it to happen.

I would like to see them go into that town and arrest every single man and charge them with breaking whatever law makes slavery illegal, not to mention grossly defrauding the welfare system, and any other charges they can throw at them. Keep them in custody, as potential threats to the women of the group, until every single civil and criminal trial has worked its way through the system.

We also need to be willing, as taxpayers, to support and assimilate the women into a normal society. Provide them with education, and the means to support themselves financially, and then possibly this shit will come to a grinding halt. Its beyond me how this has been allowed to go on, as long as it has, right under the noses of law enforcement.

No, check that... as a woman, its really not beyond me why its been permitted to go on.

Sad old world.

-chef-

[Cerridwen]

18. I agree with exactly what you said and how you said it.

I believe if they are investigated well enough, we will find that this did not go on "right under the noses of law enforcement" but with full cooperation and collusion of law enforcement.

I hope we are both wrong.

[Greyhound]

7. and we're supposed to "tolerate" this as a legitimate religion?

OTOH, I guess they're not doing anything that all the other religions do or have done in the past. :puke:

How can you people buy this crap?!?

[Cerridwen]

10. Well, at the very least, some in authority in AZ, UT and NV

are tolerating this.

[MADem]

11. I still say castrate the peckers by paper cuts!!!

One slice at a time...they can line up all of those abused girls, beaten wives, and those lads that are tossed into the street and provide them with the sharpest, crispest paper they can find! Each can have a go...perhaps Mitt Romney :rofl: could supply the paper for this effort from his STAPLES franchise??? That way he could convince America that he doesn't really GO for this sort of thing!!!

[Cerridwen]

12. I'd like to see all the LDS elected officials in UT, AZ, NV and

elsewhere come out and explain how this has been allowed to go on for decades and what their role it in was/is.

Though paper cuts works, too.



:evilgrin:

[MADem]

13. They've ALLOWED it, that's why. They've covered up, they've

facilitated, they've IGNORED. And they do it because they really believe, in their secret hearts, that it's OK. It's just a silly mean law that they had to agree to in order to gain the benefits of statehood, but, ya know, it's really...UNFAIR. Oh, and it's VICTIMLESS, they feel...

They bear almost as much responsibility as my candidates for the paper cut treatment! We'll need another truckload of paper, I believe!

[Cerridwen]

20. Allowed and aided and abeted as the research I've read

can tell.

At the very, and I mean very least, they have participated in a conspiracy of silence.

I'll donate paper. I say we use the kind used for blue prints after the prints have been printed. It's heavier, thicker and has a chemical on it which provides additional sting in the case of paper cuts.

[misternormal]

15. Polygamy was outlawed...

... in the LDS church in 1831....

Section 49:16 of the Doctrine and Covenants of the LDS Church state:

"Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife, and they twain shall be one flesh, and all this that the earth might answer the end of its creation."

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/49

Anyone that practices polygamy is NOT a member of the LDS Church, plain and simple... NO matter what they say... The consequences for practicing polygamy within the LDS Church is excommunication.

[Greyhound]

19. Utter, unmitigated, bullshit. The "law" was created to give them cover

when followers of competing myths were calling for the entire cult to be banned. It has never stopped the practice and the elders have ignored it for over a century.

BTW, just when were the criminals in Colorado City excommunicated from the church, by the church elders?

[misternormal]

21. Not bullshit...

... THe FLDS (Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints) and the RLDS (Reconstructed Latter Day Saints) are not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, any more then Fundamentalist Christians are part of Mainstream Christiandom, or Fundamentalist Islam is part of mainstream Islam.

The FLDS and the RLDS broke away from the Mainstream church because they did not follow the tenets of polygamy, among other things.

As is stated in the link in the original OP, the "Most Wanted" character was part of the FLDS, Not the mainstream church.

[tsuki]

16. Can they charge these people with child abandonment? eoq

[annabanana]

17. They certainly abandon the "extra" boys. . .

Kick them right out. . . . .

[mike_c]

8. ultimately, the real lesson of this is encapsulated in that last quote....

Even if we can live with the circumstance that at least some of the FLDS victims CHOSE their lifestyles because of their religious convictions, the broader question is whether the rest of us would accept that choice, or another like it, on religious grounds. Theocracies always move in similar directions. They are never forces for tolerance, enlightenment, personal growth, etc-- rather, they always tend in the opposite direction. The FLDS folks should be an object lesson for us all in the dangers of allowing our lives to be governed by religious dogma, and unlike the muslim Taliban, these fundamentalists are home grown-- any questions about cultural relativism are quite a bit closer to home, too.

[Cerridwen]

9. Well stated. Thank you.

The fact that "these fundamentalists are home grown-- any questions about cultural relativism are quite a bit closer to home, too." is especially pertinent and horrifying. It CAN happen here, it already has.