MEET THE ECONOMIC CLASSES OF AMERICA - please share your opinion

[Yavin4]

America is a class-based nation, and below is my breakdown of the class order:

The Super Wealthy

This group has benefitted the most from the economic policies out of Washington since 1981. They've seen their taxes reduced the most, and their labor costs have dropped significantly because of the weakening of labor unions and globalization of labor. This group is largely comprised of people who have inherited their wealth with a few entrepeneurs (See Bill Gates and Michael Dell) sprinkled in for effect. I would define this group as having net asset value of over $750 million.

The Wealthy

This group is comprised of highly valued servants to the wealthy. It includes CEOs, lawyers, accoutants, doctors, mainstream TV journalists, movie stars, athletes, and other celebrities. This group is highly paid because of two reasons: (1) they have a highly specialized and highly prized skill and (2) they're the face of the phony propaganda that America is a meritocracy and egalitarian society. In addition, most of them are paid to propagandized the public. They have a net asset value between $10 million and $250 million.

The Middle Class

This group is literally disappearing the fastest from America. These are the people who work, but because of good planning and good fortune, they've been able to get ahead of their debts and stay ahead. Some of them work in industries that are protected by labor unions. Most of them work for government, either federal or state. Here's where you will find veteran police officers or prison guards. They own their home outright and made some good investments They have a net asset value of $1 million or less, most of that value is in their home.


The Debtor Class

This is the fastest growing group in America. They owe more than they own, but they have a decent job. They serve the Wealthy class. In a sense they are the servants to the servants of the Super Wealthy. Most of them believe that they are middle class until they have life crisis, job loss, divorce, or health issue. These are the people who buy over-priced homes, lease huge vehicles, and spend by borrowing money through credit cards. These people live on thin ice. They have a negative asset value of probably $35,000.


The Working Class

This is the group that encompasses most of the American workforce. These people have no real assets at all, but they work one or more jobs. They live paycheck to paycheck without health insurance. They take temp jobs, so they don't wind up in the unemployment stats. They are largely hidden from mainstream American media. They have a negative asset value of probably $100,000 or more.

The Military Class

These are the working class people whose only hope to move up the income ladder is through military service. They join to pay for college or for something better than what's being offered. The big problem for these people is that the super wealthy class is using them to fight wars of choice and entrapping them indefinitely into military service.



The Immigrant Labor Class

These are people who may or may not ever become full time residents. These are mostly poor from other countries who work in America for brief periods of time and then return home. They work for low wages in unsafe conditions. They work here without having in any voice in the system and no way to address grievances in the workplace. This is the fastest growing class of labor in America.

Non-Working poor

These are the homeless and disabled.


Thoughts and Opinions are welcomed!!

[Selatius]

1. It's excellent, but I've developed a far more extreme model

There are two classes.

1. Those who own.
2. Those who are owned.

Naturally, group two is vastly larger in size than group one, but that's been that way for as long as history has recorded there to be kings, warlords, and CEOs.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

2. And the homeless

And disabled.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. I am waiting for the appearence of the new class:

The violent revolutionaries. At the rate things are going and if things don't change, I figure they will be along in about 5 years.

[pinto]

3. Just a question. Why recreate the British class system as a

political framework here in the United States? We are a much more fluid society. Encapsulating segments of the population may be academically sound, but some times I just don't get it. And, to be honest, I don't think it fits.

[Yavin4]

6. "We are a much more fluid society"

No, we are not. There's little or no fluidity in our system. If you are born to working class parents, then more than likely you will stay working class, unless you have a specialized and highly valued skill.

[pinto]

13. I disagree. "more than likely" may be an accurate average,

but I don't think it's cast in stone.

Having a specialized and highly valued skill is not the only way up.

(a couple of asides) Working class isn't a bad thing if that work provides for you and your family. (Blue collar is what we used to call it.) That's the point, no? And the challenge for our economic machine.

Framing social discussion into class distinctions is stifling. There are other constructs to use as framework for the issue.

[readmoreoften]

19. "Having a specialized and highly valued skill is not the only way up."

Really, there's another way "up" other having skills or being born wealthy? Do tell. Who are all these people "moving up"?

I've never met A SINGLE PERSON who went from this poster's definition of poor or working class to wealthy. In fact, I haven't met anyone who's gone from this poster's defintion of MIDDLE CLASS to wealthy. Aside from a few statistical anomalies, the US is a society rigidly organized by class and family wealth.

[pinto]

23. Wealthy is the only goal? Come on. Much of this country lives

comfortably. My point about income was just that. Can you put a roof over your family's head, provide adequate food, clothing, health care? Then, can you help provide for your family's education? These are the basics. Do many people find this a success? Yes. And it is. There's nothing wrong with being middle class. There's nothing wrong with being a blue collar worker.

"Wealthy" is a great American institution that is vastly overrated, and, yes, it's hard for most folks to attain.

Some of this country doesn't live comfortably at all. And it is because they have no jobs. Or they work for an unlivable pay scale. We don't need a Lexus, we need a livable minimum wage.

Translate your polemic about class into employment, day-to-day-life, and the reality of most Americans and I think you'll be closer to a realistic scenario.

Thanks for your post.

[readmoreoften]

25. I don't think that the OP is denigrating the working class, or saying that

you need a Lexus to be happy. I think he is saying that what used to be called "middle class" is shrinking remarkably into the "debtor class"

For example, I work as a professor at a major university. I have much "cultural capital", but I only earn $8000 a semester with no health or other benefits in a major metropolis. Many of my counterparts make $5000 a semester. It's not about having a Lexus for many of us, it's about not becoming homeless at 65 or dying without health insurance. Those of us who would be the middle class 25 years ago are now struggling to stay out of a real and terrifying poverty.

[pinto]

26. Yeah. The Lexus comment was hyperbole, at the least. Thanks.

[Yavin4]

35. Exactly

The debtor class is replacing the solid middle class.

[pinto]

27. Self delete, misplaced post.

[mad-mommy]

46. Right now we are doing all that...

"My point about income was just that. Can you put a roof over your family's head, provide adequate food, clothing, health care? Then, can you help provide for your family's education? These are the basics."

Right now we are doing all that, with exception of family education. We really don't need all the extras, and we don't center our life around having things. Our kids are still very young, I do predict we will be taking out loans for college. We live on the edge because there is no disability insurance through work, and we can't afford to buy our own plan. There is very little saved or invested. And when we retire, who knows what social security there will be. Yes, we are making it, but if just one life event happens, things would change quickly. What will happen when we reach retirement age? That is the scary part. I wholeheartedly agree with you too many people live outside of their means...but what about the people living within, but are so close to devastation? People like us can become the burden of the people who are still lucky enough to be working and making it.

Sometimes I think we should just live outside of our means and live it up on credit and at least have a little fun.

[PinkyisBlue]

20. Nobody said working class is a bad thing.

However, working class (or blue collar) of today is not the same as 10, 20 or more years ago. It used to be that a blue collar job could provide for a family, as that job came with health benefits, pension, decent wages. Now, wages have not kept pace with inflation, many jobs don't include health benefits (or you must pay through the nose for them), pensions are basically nonexistent. Now, a family must have more than one blue collar job to make ends meet, and even then, one mishap can ruin a family's finances.

[Yavin4]

21. Exactly

You understand the intention of my post. In th 20th century, working class men and women worked together to see that their labor provided them with humanistic standard of living.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. Yes, when I was a child in the 1950s and 1960s, most of

my school classmates were the children of factory workers (in two different towns). The families invariably lived on one blue collar income and found it enough to buy a house and a car. The same was true of my great-uncle, who was a school janitor.

In those days, many blue collar workers put their children through college. If not, it was easy for their children to work their way through college. When I was a college freshman, annual tuition at the University of Minnesota was 300 times the minimum wage ($375). Now it's nearly 1200 times the minimum wage.

[Thirtieschild]

36. When I was in college (early-mid 50s) tuition was just 4 times minimum wag

Tuition (North Texas State College then, University of North Texas now) was $40 a semester, minimum wage was $1 an hour, I worked in the journalism library for 35 cents an hour. When my mother was in college (mid-late 20s) tuition was $10 a quarter. To my working class parents (father an auto mechanic, mother a school teacher) college was a given. A college education was also a given to my working class grandfather. He quit his job as an electrician in a coal mine and moved to a college town so his daughter - my mother - could attend college. She later worked as a maid for room and board while she was in school. She and I both are a long way from my granddaughter, who is attending a prestigious and small liberal arts college, buttressed by a $160,000 college fund.

And the irony of it all - my working class parents turned into avid Republicans, my granddaughter (rained in wealth, grew up in Atlanta's most prestigious gated community) is an avid Democrat, wants to eventually work for the ACLU.

[Coyote_Bandit]

41. Having a specialized and highly valued skill

can be a sure ticket to long-term unemployment and can necessitate a career change if you happen to find yourself jobless.

[JanusAscending]

4. You forgot one whole class of people!!

The POOR !! Among them are retired widows like me living on S.S. and at the mercy of our Gov. for medical benefits that are in adequate! Like not only can't I afford my car payments anymore, but can't afford the gas to run it. No car, no part time employment. Where do I figure into your America? Oh and please don't forget the homeless and the mothers with young children who have to live in their cars, or homeless shelters, watching their children starve and go without medical benefits. Or have their children burn to death in a fire because the electric Co. turns off their power, so that they have to resort to candles for light. How did they keep any food they might have had from spoiling without a fridge? How did they keep cool when it got sweltering hot in the city this summer. Sorry I'm ranting, but a lot don't realize that people like me are one check away from being a "bag lady" This is no longer our America, and I'm ashamed of us!!:rant:

[Yavin4]

8. I Included Non-Working Poor

Sorry about that.

"This is no longer our America, and I'm ashamed of us!! "

In fact, it is indeed America, or at least America pre-middle 20th century. The Great Depression was the breaking point in American political/economic history. Most of America was dumped straight into the non-working poor category, and the fear was that extremist politicians would take control. As a compromise, FDR instituted the New Deal and gave power to labor unions. It was these reforms that created the great American middle class from 1945 to 1980.

[pinto]

24. I hear you. I'm single, live on SSDI, and it's a stretch.

[kineneb]

38. exactly, here also

We live on Hubby's SSDI. We have gone from Debtor class to the Non-working Poor. Causes: job loss and major health issues.

Buddy, can you spare a dime?

[Coyote_Bandit]

5. You forgot the The Dropouts

Sure, a few of them have substance abuse problems or other addictions (e.g., gambling) that prohibit them from contributing and participating in society. Some were throwaway children in a society determined to deny responsibility for the circumstances of their upbringing.

Others voluntarily choose to withdraw. Some live in remote areas as independently as they possibly can. Some expatriate themselves. Many live otherwise typical lives but do not participate in the body politic.

Many more are forced to withdraw from productive employment. They are too old. They are too educated. They lack experience. They went to the wrong school. They have been outsourced - whether to a technological replacement or to some cheaper labor which may be contracted illegally or in a foreign country. They lack the capital to start their own shop and compete against the big corporations.

Based on the apathy reflected by voter participation rates this is potentially the most influential of any group.

[papau]

7. An excellent summary - the "middle class" because of real estate

price increase might be defined as those with less than $600,000 in net assets in excess of the value of the house.

[bonzotex]

9. I would eliminate the Military Class-Classification

True, few of the upper class join America's military but it's not exclusively the realm of the desperate working poor either. The US Military is one of the more egalitarian, even socialistic, institutions in the Country.

The US doesn't have a military caste or class -- Not yet anyway.

[Yavin4]

11. The All-Volunteer Military is Comprised Mostly of the Working Class

That's who joins, plain and simple. Yes, there are higher levels, like West Point, the Naval Academy, or the Air Force, but they fall into the highly skilled servants of the super wealthy class.

Having only the working class poor in the military makes it easier to fight wars of choice because the debtor class and the wealthy don't have to make the sacrifice.

[bonzotex]

29. I understand what you are saying, but...

It is not just the working class poor in the military. The "class" argument is harder to paste on the US military. It's not so plain and simple. You might say "mostly working class" and that is broadly true, but there are so many exceptions. Ask other military and ex-military.

As far as the military being a tool for the super-wealthy I would agree insofar as the super-wealthy control the government. In the sense that there a few thousand families in the US that are vastly more wealthy than the rest; we are all their skilled servants as long as we let them control our government.

I still say we don't have a military class. Military members are generally a subset of the working class and the middle class, they serve "x" time in the forces and return to civilian life, usually near their original SE level.

[Extend a Hand]

10. I think that your list would be more accurate

if you made class distinctions factoring in the number of household dependents, passive income, earned income, and assets(excluding a primary residence).

Professions and job titles often aren't very good indicators of economic class.
I don't think most lawyers and many doctors are really wealthy anymore.In our area police officer and teachers are barely making enough to live on much less save

This guy has done some interesting work on economic classes:
http://www.jmooneyham.com/rich.html
Mooneyham makes these distinctions: (he goes into more details for each at the link above)
# The top 1% of income households in the USA

* The super rich: making at least $175 million a year each

* The 'plain' rich: making at least $1 million a year each

* The 'poorest' rich: making at least $400,000 a year each

# The bottom 99% of income households in the USA

* The upper middle-class: making at least $145,000 a year each

* The low to intermediate level middle-class: making at least $18,000 a year each

* The official poor: making as little as zero per year

from the census:
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/005647.html

[Yavin4]

12. I Use Net Asset Value, not Income

Income is meaningless because it can be taken away at any time.

When I used police officers or teachers, I am talking about people who are on the job for years, have seniority, and are protected by labor unions. These people own their own homes and the value of that home puts them into the middle class bracket.

[Extend a Hand]

15. there is a big difference between

being able to live off passive income and having to have an earned income. I would argue that net asset value especially if it includes a primary residence is not a very good indicator of economic class or wealth. My mom is one example of why this is not a good measure. Like many retirees she lives in a home she bought over 40 years ago for less than $25,000. Because the property is waterfront even though the house is falling apart, it is now worth over 1 million dollars. by your standard she is rich. However, like many older folks who have lived in the same place for many years, she does not want to leave here home... so she gets by on her SSI and a pension from my Dad of less than 25,000 a year.

A classification based on net asset value lumps somebody like my mom in with celebrities and sports stars and CEO's. Net asset value doesn't really work that well.

[Yavin4]

17. From An Accounting Point of View

If she owns her home and it's woth $1 million, then she's worth $1 million. That's a fact.

[Coyote_Bandit]

45. You can't measure wealth or class without

looking at the whole picture.

A 40 year old with an inheritance of $500,000 who has no income and is unemployable is not rich. Money managers charge fees (usually at least 1% of net asset value annually) and, given the circumstances of this client, will not invest aggressively for growth - which means they likely will invest no more than 50% of the account into the equity market. The account will be doing good to generate average annual returns of just over 5% before management fees are taken. Basically this 40 year old can take an average of about $20,000 annually without depleting the account. Out of that $20,000 they will have to pay taxes, meet their basic living expenses including housing and transportation and provide for health care. What is a nice nest egg for someone who is earning an income is barely a means of subsistence if that same person is unemployable.

A 65 year old living in a home valued at $1 million and having a cost basis of $25,000 and an income insufficient to meet her needs for food, shelter, housing, transportation and health care is not rich. Some $275,000 of any sale proceeds would be exempted from gains taxes (basis of $25,000 plus $250,000 nontaxable gain allowed by the IRS). The remaining $725,000 would be subject to federal gains taxes of 20% plus unspecified state gains taxes. So federal taxes of about $145,000 would be owed on the transaction - and the homeowner would need to find suitable replacement housing. The homeowner would be lucky to net $800,000 after taxes. Out of that she would need to find replacement housing. Depending on where she lives there may not be much if anything left after doing so.

And the purchasing power of somebody having no assets and earning $100,000 annually can only be measured in relation to the community in which they live. Income by itself is not a measure of whether somebody is rich.

Neither is net asset value.

[Nikia]

14. I don't agree, especially when you include debt and assetts

Very few working class people have that much debt unless they have some serious medical bills. Unless they at one time had a better paying more permanent job, there is no way that they can get that kind of credit for something that does not have value that can be taken (like a home or car). Since cars depreciate, they are usually limited by how much they can borrow for that even if they have good credit. Many have almost no debt except for the debt that they weren't able to pay, thus ruining their credit. I would also say that it does not encompass most of the American workforce by your definitions because most Americans still get employer based health insurance and do not work temp jobs even though this is getting more common.
It seems that the difference between the debtor class and the middle class is their debt. I think that many of the debt free group are older people who have their kids out of the house. Young people may or may not be debtors but might have school loans or make decisions to buy now and hope to make more money later. On the surface, they might seem the same to outsiders.
You also seem to be missing a category between middle class and wealthy. The wealthy can be debtors as well for the same reason that some middle class people are debtors, buying things that they really couldn't afford.
Really though, it depends on how you consider class though. Some people consider it to have a sociological element that is sometimes preserved regardless of economic circumstances. Middle class poor might act differently than working class or non working poor.

[Yavin4]

18. My Rebuttal

"Very few working class people have that much debt"

If you don't own a home, you rent. When you rent, you sign a contract for lease. If you have to sign that lease for multiple years, then that's debt. Over several years, the debt adds up.

Car payments are debt.


"Really though, it depends on how you consider class though. Some people consider it to have a sociological element that is sometimes preserved regardless of economic circumstances. Middle class poor might act differently than working class or non working poor. "

No. Class is determined by net asset value.

[Nikia]

30. I suppose that I understand what you are saying

I didn't really look at rent as debt, but most leases that I encountered were for a year or less. You always need to place to live, but is rent really anymore debt than someone owning their own hom paying utility bills?
My comment about how one considers class though depends in the context that one talks about it. If one is talking about political behavior, for example, school performance, some aspects of consumer behavior, or how people relate to one one another on a day to day basis, there might be other factors than net assetts.

[MazeRat7]

22. You left out "Professionals"... Engineers, Doctors, Lawyers, etc....

I think most of us are somewhere between "middle class" and "wealthy" (according to your definitions).

As an engineer, I can't really speak for the doctors, lawyers, etc... but as a generalization I would say most in this class have 6 digit incomes (less than 999k/yr), 7 digits in assets (less than 9,999k), and work for themselves, or are in a limited partnership, or work for a fortune 500 company. Maybe even some combination of all three.

So it looks like there needs to be something between your categories of "middle class" and "wealthy".

Just an observation.

MZr7

[datasuspect]

33. very strictly speaking

there are only two classical professions: medicine and the law, and these have been avenues for mobility forever.

many of our masters are lawyers.

i think the professional class is often outside the scheme proposed here.

[pinto]

28. Just slightly off topic, but a good read: "The Origins of Labor Day"

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/september96/labor_day_9-2.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. You need to have something between the Wealthy and the Middle Class,

something for those who make between 1 million and 10 million dollars. (To my mind, anyone with an annual income of $1 million per year is wealthier than 99% of Americans ever will be.)

[AngryAmish]

32. What is the group b/w 1 and 10 million?

[Yupster]

37. The Middle Class

"Most of them work for government?"

Not around here they don't. Most of them work for oil companies around here. That's the group that's missing according to my opinion.

The other group you're missing are the older working class person with net worths over $ 1 milion or close to it. There are way more of these families than anyone would think. I work with them every day and most of them you'd never guess have anything close to what they have. My parents, my wife's parents and a hundred other families I work with fall into this category. Maybe call them the "Saving Class."

[mnhtnbb]

39. Middle class definitely needs sub-groups

there are plenty of doctors/lawyers/accountants who don't fit into the
wealthy category--having assets less than 10 million--that actually don't exist to serve the wealthy but consider it their professional obligation to provide service to people, regardless of their incomes.

[stepnw1f]

40. The Debtor Class

I seriously believe the Debtor Class is intentional. I feel there are wealthy folk who see this as a way to maintain wealth and leisure, and eliminating any possible competition.

I believe so especially when we have people like Neo-cons saying they wish to drown the "commons" in a bath tub liking a baby".

Slight translation, since Grover Norquist actually said "government" instead of "commons".

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

42. "Hi, ECONOMIC CLASSES OF AMERICA !"

:hi:

[Deja Q]

43. I'm middle class, almost debt free, and almost out of a job too.

I don't fit in to any of the aforementioned categories, but I'm still lucky to have lived a good life.

As for immigrants, how many come here to really enrich America - but in reality they come here, trying to enriching themselves monetarily (they find it easier to leave their own country of origin), when in actuality they are allowing themselves to be abused and are hurting everyone else at the same time, which in turn will eventually come back to haunt them too?

[Yavin4]

44. You Are Working Class

Unless you have assets of about $100K to $1 million.