Crocodile Hunter Steve Irwin killed

[tocqueville]

11 minutes ago

CAIRNS, Australia - Steve Irwin, the hugely popular Australian television personality and conservationist known as the "Crocodile Hunter," was killed Monday by a stingray while filming off the Great Barrier Reef. He was 44.

Irwin was at Batt Reef, off the remote coast of northeastern Queensland state, shooting a segment for a series called "Ocean's Deadliest" when he swam too close to one of the animals, which have a poisonous bard on their tails, his friend and colleague John Stainton said.

"He came on top of the stingray and the stingray's barb went up and into his chest and put a hole into his heart," said Stainton, who was on board Irwin's boat at the time.

Crew members aboard the boat, Croc One, called emergency services in the nearest city, Cairns, and administered CPR as they rushed the boat to nearby Low Isle to meet a rescue helicopter. Medical staff pronounced Irwin dead when they arrived a short time later, Stainton said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060904/ap_on_en_tv/obit_irwin

RIP Steve, you had a wonderful life and gave us many wonderful hours....

[thepurpose]

1. Going to miss Steve. The guy was very passionate about this planet's

animals. I sure his wife and kids can carry on that passion.

[ReverendDeuce]

187. PICS HERE! omfg...

http://www.swsnews.com/fullstory.php?iid=4732

[SaveElmer]

190. That's not funny...

Sorry

[LostinVA]

193. Agreed -- not funny

[Name removed]

213. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lost-in-FL]

264. This is very sick

I don't think you should post crap like this here.

[Radio_Lady]

279. I agree with you, Lost-in-FL, but I was just posting the animation

to see if others feel the same way as we do.

Sorry if the post upset you.

[Lost-in-FL]

283. It's all right

Well, you know how I feel about it.

[Name removed]

285. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jamastiene]

318. I find it offensive as well.

I wish I hadn't seen that though. Is it too late to add a warning to that post?

[HuffleClaw]

241. i expect he would laughed at this himself, after all he himself

described australian humor as 'cruel'. this was a guy who could be nibbled on by assorted critters and laugh it off.

[cboy4]

That's bullshit. WTF is wrong with you posting this?

:grr:

[Radio_Lady]

281. Cboy4, this is a case of "shooting the messenger" --

we responded to it because we were trying to see if others agreed that it was sensationalistic and in poor taste.

By posting it, we can see if others agree. I see no reason NOT to post it for comments.

Thank you for listening.

In peace,

Radio_Lady

[xchrom]

2. WOW!

well -- blessings on you mr irwin.

[durrrty libby]

3. That is so very sad

I had no idea a stingray could kill someone

I've seen them in the ocean and was told they were harmless.

[thepurpose]

4. They aren't normally aggressive to humans, but hardly not harmless.

They have venom in barbs in their tails. I will always remember Jack Hanna telling a young zoo keeper who was deathly afraid of snakes that approaching animals always has to start with respect. Respect will allow you to control your fear and prevent you from making deadly mistakes when interacting with them. I'm in no way suggesting Steve didn't respect animals or some how didn't know he could be very will killed or injured. This is a tragic accident and we humans lost a great teacher and the animals lost a great friend and protector.

[tocqueville]

6. he was extremely unlucky

Dasyatids do not attack aggressively, or even actively defend themselves. When threatened their primary reaction is to swim away. However, when they are attacked by predators or stepped on, the barbed stinger in their tail is mechanically whipped up. This attack is normally ineffective against their main predator, sharks. Humans are usually stung in the foot; it is also possible, although less likely, to be stung "accidentally" by brushing against the stinger. Contact with the stinger causes local trauma (from the cut itself), pain and swelling from the venom, and possible infection from parts of the stinger left in the wound, as well as from seawater entering the wound. Fatal ray stings, such as that which killed Australian environmentalist Steve Irwin, are rare but can occur if stings are improperly treated, sever major arteries, or are in the pelvic region or chest.<1>

Treatment for stings includes hot water (as hot as the victim can stand), which helps ease pain and break down the venom, and antibiotics. Vinegar or urine may or may not be successful in easing pain; neither cleans the wound properly. Other possible pain remedies include papain (papaya extract, contained in unseasoned powdered meat tenderizer), which may break down the protein of the toxins, though this may be more appropriate for jellyfish and similar stings. Pain normally lasts up to 48 hours but is most severe in the first 30-60 minutes and may be accompanied by nausea, fatigue, headaches, fever, and chills.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray

[durrrty libby]

8. Yes ..it looks like a case of extreme bad luck n/t

[Radio_Lady]

162. So sad. He was a young father with a wife and two children.

RIP, and peace, Steve. You'll be remembered for all the difficult and dangerous things you did.

Happy Crocidile Hunting in Heaven... if there really is a Heaven!

[LostinVA]

173. As I said in another thread...

I like to think he's playing with Sui right now, while they watch Mary and Bindi the croc play together in a fresh pool of water...

Animals lost a great friend and advocate today...

[cboy4]

I LOVE your post. It makes me cry. I know how sad he was when his mom

died, so hopefully he's happy seeing his beloved doggy Suey (who went everywhere with him as you know......even on the fishing boat looking for crocs), and is happy seeing his mom as well! :)

[LostinVA]

225. Did you see when Mary the Croc died, and they had the funeral?

And how he was crying.....

Steve could be a bit of a goofball redneck, but he was a great guy for anaimals. I'm very, very sad today.

[cboy4]

234. I think I cried too. Ughh. I just loved him and his passion....I'm so sad.

And yes you right, he was an awesome guy for animals. He loved them.

Speaking of sad, some of these posts I'm reading are pretty sad as well......and I don't mean sad in a boo-hoo way.....I mean they're sad as in really fuc*ed up. :(

[LostinVA]

289. I know what you're saying

[Jamastiene]

314. I gotcha on that.

I know what you mean. My ignore list is currently being updated today including a few surprises, sadly.

RIP Steve. :cry:

[LostinVA]

349. I know, mine too --

[Mike Daniels]

365. But the venom generally isn't going to kill a human

A human is more likely to develop problems from the wound getting infected since the barbs are slimy and have sea-based gunk on them.

If Steve had been punctured anywhere else on his person he most likely would still be alive today.

That said, the only time I've ever heard of rays attacking humans up till now was generally when the human inadvertently stepped on a ray resting on the sandy bottom.

[nickinSTL]

49. it's very rare

the barb itself penetrated his heart, according to the article on BBC. The venom had nothing to do with his death.

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. Egads! That is indeed very sad.

And kind of sad he didn't get to die by crocodile.

He was both hilarious and dedicated to the science and preservation. I'm actually sad about this!

[malaise]

7. He sure gave us wonderful hours

At least his death was quick.

[acmejack]

9. A sad end to a most entertaining gentleman.

RIP.

[orpupilofnature57]

10. Very sad, RIP Steve

[Solly Mack]

11. Oh no! Very sad! : (

RIP Steve Irwin.

Heartfelt condolences to the family of a man who gave joy and laughter to many.

[NNadir]

12. That's a shame. My kids loved his shows.

[BoneDaddy]

13. OH Man

That really sucks. I loved that guy.

[symbolman]

14. Not surprised in the least

the man was Very disrespectful to animals, and the whole waving his baby in front of a croc made me sick..

My wife raised two 6 foot iguanas and I grew to learn a lot about reptiles, etc, and the first thing I learned was you don't stick your FACE in theirs.. actually I learned to respect animals while growing up on a farm..

They are BEINGS, not Playthings for amusement or for taunting, exciting, inciting, etc. They are not for entertainment by freaking them out. I was ashamed when I found that touching baby birds in the nest caused the mother to let them die as a kid.

I can say that he introduced a lot of animals to kids who otherwise wouldn't know about them, but as far as I can see this a case of instant Karma.

no one should lay in the street and then wonder why a truck hit them, and no one should be rewarded for showing kids that sticking your face in front of dangerous animals is FUN.

I have sympathy for his family but none at all for him, he chose his fate a LONG time ago.

[durrrty libby]

15. Oh fer christ sakes. The man was not a frekin terrorist

This is a thread to pay respect

[symbolman]

20. So you've decided that for me,eh?

I have no respect for him and have every right to say so, and I personally watched him terrorize helpless animals, SMALL ONES.. doesn't matter whether it was a croc or a salamander..

I've got more respect for the animals than HIM. I paid my sympathies to his family, it's not their fault he was in my OPINION a macho idiot clowning for the cameras and money while scaring the shit out of animals.

I live in Hawaii where people RESPECT the land and sea, the A'aina, spirit, etc.. Aloha, means actually, not hello and goodbye in one word.. it literally means, "the breath of GOD"..

I personally swam down and chased a sea turtle just to touch one, and did just that, later I found out that just by touching it I had doomed it to virus infections and tumors for the rest of it's shortened life.. and I've wanted my whole life to hitch a ride on a big old Manta Ray, well, I guess he taught me at least ONE valuable lesson..

You're quite welcome to your opinion, but mine is just as valid.

[Uroboros]

24. Agreed

Using animals as unwilling members of some form of mass entertainment is not respecting them. I'm sure that string-ray had had enough of being following around that close by one guy who wants to take your picture and another who wants to grab hold of you.

[L A Woman]

89. you clearly don't know much about him

he took his immense knowledge and respect for animals and brought it to the masses in an entertaining way. he taught millions of children how to respect wildlife and the planet. you might want to spend some time this morning assessing what kind of a person YOU are.

[ForrestGump]

105. You don't know what you're talking about

I don't know what Steve was doing at the time, but this kind of injury has happened to people before and the odds are very good that he got it by unknowingly settling on a buried stingray. I'm not saying it happened that way, but that's a very likely possibility. I am always keenly awar eof such possibility when I settle down on a sand patch to take pictures or make observations.

[LostinVA]

110. The SO has a background in Marine Biology

Though not as much as you, and she said rays tend not to be aggressive. We've snorkeled and had an eagle ray pass very close under us -- too close for comfort, because the tail wasn't that far from us. My uncle has stepped on a ray and been barbed, too.

[ForrestGump]

121. SO is right

And eagle rays are supremely cool beasties, and basically harmless unless you're a conch.

I tend to have a hands-off appraoch to marine animals, but I have stroked the front edge of a big female stingray's disc once when I came right up to her (not at a popular dive site...stingrays tend to be very mellow animals, though some of the smaller Indo-Pacific species often seem) and she obviously liked the feeling. No way I was harming her and the interaction provided welcome tactile stimulation for her, which is a big part of what's really behind the whole cleaning symbiosis thing. Stingrays can't too easily scratch their noses...

[LostinVA]

127. I sent her your "big post"

She is upset that TV (except for CNN) and some posters are slamming Steve-O. And believe me, she is a huge backer of environmentalism and conservation. It's best to never mention either ANWAR or SONAR around her...

She liked your post.

[ForrestGump]

136. My big post?

Oooo...baby!


:P

I'm glad she liked it. Yeah, Steve-O was hardly entirely in line with the kind of academic conservation angle many think of, but he did exactly what I was starting to do and want to do yet, which is to spread the word in a way that gets noticed and makes a concrete difference to some degree.

Also, some of my academic peers -- and the people I'm thinking of include PhDs who're among the most respected in the world within their fields -- act almost exactly like Steve Irwin when they're in the field. It's especially true of herpetologists (I know a ton of them)...they happily grab salamanders, frogs, cottonmouths and copperheads -- whatever -- while gleefully extolling the virtues of the animals and (for the venomous kind) just what kind of effects the venom has on animals and on the human body. They're so enthusiastic that when I first saw Steve Irwin I thought "he's just like (a certain scientist who was then a fellow grad student)." :D

And, yeah, these dudes (along with a few of us studying certain other beasties) tended to give the best talks to nonspecialist audiences. One had a radio show, a newspaper column, and wrote popular books. They were rare among scientists in that they could communicate with regular folks and do it with enthusiasm. In the end, the main thing separating them from Steve was the PhD, and he really earned one through field experience.

[LostinVA]

137. giggle .... *blush*

[LostinVA]

152. I had a shark swim right by me while I was snorkeling off of Fort Jefferso

in the Dry Tortugas. By the time I got the camera ready, all I could get was a tail. The SO was ticked, because she is a HUGE fan of all things Carcharhinus. I, of course, couldn't remember what it specifically looked like... except that it was about ten-feet-long, and just eyeballed me and swam away.

[ForrestGump]

200. Sharks have a remarkable ability to pose best when your camera's

not ready, out of film, or on the boat. :D

Pretty cool, though. :headbang:

That's a big chunk of shark.

Here's a mere fraction of the photographic evidence of my own apparent death wish:















I can't help it...I'm an adrenaline junkie who lives for the thrill of facing the sea's most cold-blooded killers, nothing but savage eating machines! I can feel my gonadal tissue swelling as we speak!



But I really post those pictures in Steve's memory...he was, in background and in intent, very much a brother and he would have 'got it.'

[LostinVA]

205. OOOH -- classic Freudian death wih behavior!

:spank: :spank: :spank:

[Jamastiene]

317. You animal you.

:sarcasm:

I knew there was some reason why I love you so much. You are too fucking cool, man. :hi:

Love those pictures. :hug:

[ForrestGump]

326. It's animal magnetism

And I had fun taking those pictures and a few thousand others -- even when it went to hell, underwater, it was still where I was meant to be.

I never knew him, personally, but Steve was my brother.

:hug:

[LostinVA]

350. I know what you're saying

That's what pisses me off about how several people have ridicule those of us upset about this: "he's a stranger, not your father," "I expect that response from a child, not an adult," etc. People don't get that strangers can touch us... and that empathy is more precious than any other emotion.

[ForrestGump]

102. What people in Hawaii respect the land and the sea?

Lately, at least? The people who made it the leader in the world for loss of bird species? The people who made Kaneohe Bay, location of the University of Hawaii's marine lab, a sewer for so many years?

And you're not necessarily going to harm a turtle by touching it. You should leave it the hell alone, yes, and never try to 'ride' the poor things, but they are not usually quite that fragile. I've only touched them while warding them off, because I've a couple of times had turtles who seemed overly friendly or curious come up and circle around me until I felt like I was in a washign machne with a giant wok crashing around me.

[roguevalley]

217. fine. start a disrespect thread somewhere else.

[WinkyDink]

29. To say that Steve Irwin showed "disrespect to animals", when he

was one of our greatest wildlife conservationists, is bizarre.

Oh, fine. YOU are a better man than he, Gunga Din.
Whatever.

[symbolman]

31. Oh yeah

there's nothing more entertaining than holding a tasty baby, YOUR OWN CHILD in front of a HUGE croc, and they can dash nearly as fast as a HORSE for short distances, for a Crowd and cameras..

He lost me that day, forever, just like Michael Jackson dangling his baby over a window ledge. Oh, but he's a GREAT musician and that takes precedence.

Anyone that has any respect for leaving animals the HELL ALONE, not Taunting them for money might disagree with you, and yes, that would be me.

He died exactly as he should have, stabbed to death by a dangerous animal he was harrassing. Too bad for his family, for them I have sympathy, for him none at all, but at least he taught me that much, that you CAN be stabbed in the heart by a Stingray, tho it's so freaking RARE that I consider this episode nothing more than Instant Karma, a lesson to him and all of us.

If you LOVE animals you protect them, you can SHOW them to people without scaring a little lizard so bad it clamps onto your nose, a GIANT BEING it can't possibly run fast enough from.. if anything those little lizards were braver than him.. handling dangerous animals is plain stupid.

Oh but he was a FUNNY guy, so spunky. A much better man than me, a person who leaves god's freaking creatures ALONE to live their lives natually.

[Joe Fields]

You have no earthly idea....

Oh yeah, you are welcome to your opinion, no matter how uninformed it may be.

[VolcanoJen]

92. Awwwww symbol...

... you know I love ya brother, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

As an animal lover, and as someone who often puts the welfare of animals above humans much to the anger of my friends, I think Steve Irwin was a boon to the conservation movement. He embraced the least cudddly and cute of all animals, and showed the world how important they were to the balance of the ecosystem. He taught. He educated. I will forever be an admirer of his.

What appeared to be harrassment to some was affection to others (like me). I think the world has lost a great man, a true friend of wildlife.

But I still love ya bro. :-)

[symbolman]

268. I've seen animals drop dead

from fear, that's the problem I have my friend.. and they build blinds, etc to HIDE from animals like in National Geographic, to me that's respectful (also unfortunately a hunting technique)..

I think it's the American Indian blood in me, I have soared like an eagle, seen through the eyes of others, and felt what they feel, flaky as that sounds.. once you've been there, or seen Caribou from horizon to horizon you get changed, even an ant is hard to kill.

Too much "entertainment", animals in many ways are better than people, they don't lie, play games, they even stab you in the front instead of the back, all instinct, the most honest things on the planet, and that's valuable, more than TV or Gold.

I've seen too many people get their arms chewed off, even with a loaded gun nearby (a geologist had both arms gnawed off), and for someone to run with them and then have people say, "AWWWW, SHUCKS.." Well, it doesn't make sense to me.. it seems more like Karma, and that's the connection I see..

It's one thing to be nutty for the cameras, but the baby? Lost all respect for him at that point. forever. sorry :)

[ForrestGump]

112. Since that whole baby-holding episode, I've wondered if

the reaction to it was stronger in the US than it was anywhere else. Because -- although, yeah, it's not the most brilliant idea in the world -- I certainly didn't really think anything of it at the time (it was a big 'so what?') but that may be at least partly because not only have I worked with 'dangerous' animals extensively but my colelagues have, too,a nd their children grew up around such animals without being made irrationally afraid of them.

My theory is that the outcry and shock was greater in the US than elsewhere because Americans are so damned afraid of everything these days -- obviously the NeoCons play on and exacerbate this to their own ends, but it can even be seen in such stupidity as inane warning notices on every single thing ("WARNING: do not stick this toaster in your eye!") -- and anything wild and not handled by a remote control is that much more fear-inspiring. I may be wrong, but I suspect that the outrage was at least somewhat less or somewhat less fear-based in other nations than in the US, and especially in nations where a good percentage of the population live closer to (obvious) Nature than is the case in most of the US.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

116. The warnings are out of control...this is what came on my French press...

"Warning: Boiling water and small children should be kept apart."

Well, thank God they put that there, because otherwise I was going to dump some boiling water on the nearest small child. It was so absurd, that I actually cut it off the box and keep it taped to my light switch, as a constant reminded not to dump boiling water on small children.

[ForrestGump]

123. What's their position on

boiling oil?

It's insane, the warning labels and notes in manuals these days. Sure, this is a litigious country but, really... :eyes:

[ForrestGump]

124. What's their position on

boiling oil?

It's insane, the warning labels and notes in manuals these days. Sure, this is a litigious country but, really... :eyes:

[elehhhhna]

202. US outrage over his baby-meets-croc video was hypocritical

IMO, coming from a hyperwealthy country where many children go to bed hungry &/or live in cars.

[symbolman]

271. I agree and have seen and lived both sides

as a city boy and then as a gold miner, helicopter prospector (4 years total between the two gigs, city Chicago boy for many years) -- people are really DISConnected from Nature.. malls everywhere, concrete, etc..

if it ain't got wheels then RUN!

It's a damn shame, but to me animals are like loaded guns as well, as least some of the ones he handled, and that encourages kids to do the same, stick their face in a lizards..

Go take a look at what a full grown Iguana can do to your face online, google some photos, or hands.. my wife had two 6 footers when I met her and I've never seen anything that can be sitting still one minute and in the parking lot the next instant, with a face full of teeth that they LEAVE in the wound..

They're old School, you DIE from gram-negative bacteria (dinosaur snot) even IF you kill them or they get away once bit, you lose.

But I think you're right, americans are for the most part insulated from nature, you want nature and danger, GO EXPERIENCE SOME, live a life, which it sounds like You have in your post, I did, it's this vicarious living of danger, then sympathizing with the dead guy, when HE took all the chances that drives me nuts too.

I've been there, and I think he was wrong from the same side he was on.

[Violet_Crumble]

237. Keep yr shirt on....

He died exactly as he should have, stabbed to death by a dangerous animal he was harrassing.

He was harrassing the stingray? I haven't read that in any media report, so given yr hysterical tone I'm inclined to think that's some creative writing on yr part...

Y'know, I thought Steve Irwin was a bit of a wanker and I hated the boofhead image he portrayed, but his family have been handling dangerous animals for generations, which involved rescuing injured animals. While I didn't like him, there was a lot more to him than the showman who wrestled crocodiles and his contribution to the world of conservation was pretty huge...

And get a clue. Someone needs to handle dangerous animals. Crocodiles sometimes end up in areas they shouldn't be in and someone has to move them...

[symbolman]

278. That's why they make the "babie lures"

to move crocs around..

Bad teaching of children to stick them in your face, kids are dumb and learn by example, monkey see, monkey do..

I have a clue, I've been nearly killed by Alaskan wildlife repeatedly, and crashed in a chopper (bear/moose bait), on the other side of the Brooks Range..

Showing kids how to Dodge cars in the street, that you are SO FAST, and then having folks praise you for saving Chevy's and Fords from so many eras..

This guy was like a STOCK CAR race, or the Indy 500, WHEN was he going to Get it and HOW is what many people were thinking, of course when he dies it's appropriate to PRETEND like that wasn't ever a thought in your mind, that he was a great philanthropist, didn't scare little animals to death for money..

I've never like hypocrisy when someone dies who plays russian roulette, a slow suicide. but for ENTERTAINMENT?

I don't consider him an entertainer, I thought he was an idiot, which has been confirmed twice now, once with the baby and this time where he let an animal PROTECT ITSELF Instinctually from BOTH him and a Cameraman HARRASSING IT..

We're not all OBJECTS for camera PROPS, and neither are the animals. Building a "blind" is respectful as the animal goes about it's business.

[Midlodemocrat]

40. I don't agree. I thought he brought the plight of wild animals

right into our living rooms. He certainly was a more than dedicated environmentalist and taught a lot of people, children especially, about respect for animals.


And, he was a very dedicated father. That whole thing with Bindi Sue and the croc was blown out of proportion. He adored his kids.

[symbolman]

47. You didn't SEE the video then?

He was bouncing the baby ON the GROUND and looking over his shoulder at the croc.. granted at first with the kid in the air he possibly could have thrown her over the fence and saved HER at least (and I imagine she'd have suffered some pretty bad injuries)..

But to say that Video is overblown when he's waving his child like a piece of meat at something that can reach damn near speeds of 40 MPH, faster than a human can RUN, is absurd..

His own death proved his infallibility, and that the kid COULD have been killed as well by the croc..

Naw, he lost me forever when he did that, had I been there I would have punched him out for that stunt, should have been arrested.

Sorry, I can't possibly agree that he was dedicated after viewing that video, it's plain as day.

[malaise]

73. That was really extreme behaviour

I agree with you.

Prepare for twenty four/seven cable coverage.

[LostinVA]

85. I did -- and my reaction wasn't quite the same as yours

I grew up with too many farm kids and crabber kids, I guess.

[XOKCowboy]

269. Exactly

It makes one wonder if any of these people grew up around animals.

[LostinVA]

361. We were chased by a bull whenever we cut through a pasture

Which we weren't supposed to do, of course. We were like seven-years-old. Oi. Way worse than a controlled situation with a croc.

[elehhhhna]

204. It was a stupid thng to do, and then Michael Jackson one-upped him --

Just saying.

[hlthe2b]

52. The incident with his child was extreme and a mistake...

I am sure Irwin was so confident that no harm could come to his child doing so, that it never occurred to him that the "stunt" would be perceived so badly. I suspect his wife Terry took him to town on that one--as well she should. As far as I can tell, he never did anything like that again... In his exuberance, Irwin sometimes took too many risks and went too far, but the risks were nearly always to himself...

Having said that, I do truly believe Steve Irwin had no malevolent intent, truly loved the animals he interacted with, and believed at his core that educating the world about these animals would save them. At least, he was trained to safely handle the poisonous snakes and big crocs that were the subjects of many of his shows. Contrast that to the guy who (along with his girlfriend) ultimately met his demise with the Grizzlies of Alaska a few years back and the subject of a popular documentary. In Irwin's case, he knew what he was doing, but sometimes-- driven by exuberance-- went too far. In the second case, the guy was delusional, his presence in the remote bear territory absolutely put the bears at risk, had received no specific training to work with these bears and appeared to be on a (ultimately successful) quest for "martyrdom"... I do see a difference.

Irwin was quirky and took some risks. But, with the exception of that one incident with his young child, reprehensible though it might have been to us looking on, I don't think he ever put the animals at risk and took pains to protect them. He took all the risks, himself.

I don't chastise Irwin. He made a contribution that I do believe will be beneficial to the animals he sought to protect. If one person thinks twice about the impact of eradicating sharks, snakes, crocs or alligators--out of misplaced fear--Irwin's work was worthwhile. I certainly wouldn't want us to spawn a lot of Steve Irwin 'wannabes,' but the original, I will miss. My sympathies to his family and all who came to love him.

[LostinVA]

53. Great post -- you said it all way better than I could have! n/t

[symbolman]

60. I agree with you

and especially about the delusional clown in Alaska who got ate by Grizzlies.. I have nearly been killed by Grizzlies several times, once I was actually running from one on the tundra north of the Brooks range, after the helicopter tried to chase a brown "blob" away in the distance, while my pal and I had been standing there admiring a crushed caribou, skull bouncing from the chopper blades, it's body wrapped around a large stick, with tundra scraped up in a circle around it..

We thought it was a native shrine out there in the middle of the tundra, once the chopper took off, stranding us there, and we saw the chopper heading for the "blob" coming towards us, I looked at my pal and said, "This is FOOD." We could not run toward the chopper who was trying to scare the bear away, which didn't work, so as the chopper headed back towards us WE began running AWAY from the bear and chopper..

The chopper got to us, but had no time to land, instead the pilot lowered himself and reduced his speed to ours.. the bear was DIRECTLY behind us.. my pal leaped and grabbed the pontoon of the chopper, and I leaped and grabbed his legs.. as the chopper pulled upwards I looked back to see a giant paw SWIPE at MY LEGS..

Within inches of being killed. So I know a bit about the danger of beasts, and Colbert is right, a Grizzly is nothing more than a killing machine :)

The other thing I saw while prospecting by chopper for two summers in the Tundra (for Uranium) was while we were moving at about 180 mph in a chopper at about 2000 feet altitude, a few caribou trickled onto the tundra, then some more, and more, and more until ALL WE COULD SEE from Horizon to horizon (and tundra is flat as a pool table) was Caribou, jumping over each other, jostling, pushng, etc.. the ENTIRE EARTH WAS ALIVE, a totally spiritual experience that we never forgot, watched it for about 15 minutes at that speed.

I'm writing a book about that as a spiritual journey to "evangelize" environmentalism, and respect for all animals called, "The Jesus Bolt" , the Jesus Bolt is the big bolt that holds ALL the chopper blades on, and if that comes out then the next person you will be talking to will be "jesus"..

The book is not about jesus or christianity, but is a metaphor for those caribou maybe BEING the Jesus Bolt of the planet.. maybe THEY hold the environment together worldwide, and a metaphor for people too, as in What is YOUR Jesus Bolt? What holds YOU together, etc..

I may even have a line on making a film about these adventures in Alaska, and I want to show the WORLD how the world looks ALIVE in the ANWR.. hence my attitude towards animals..

Thanks for your thoughtful post, appreciate it.. for me coming from Alaska, a lot of times we are more harsh, like the weather and just call things for what it is.. he fucked up, and paid for it, just plain old truth, and I feel sorry for his family :)

[hlthe2b]

64. thank you, Symbolman... your experiences are fascinating...

While not the harsh environment of Alaska, I have long gotten used to the death that comes from our own high country--but which stuns our vacationers or recent arrivals from elsewhere in the US. Whether the electrical storms that paralyze and kill hikers, the occasional mountain lion death of joggers, the sudden hail storms that wipe rock climbers off the face to their deaths, the winter avalanches, or the ill-prepared backcountry skiers/hikers who wander off track and succumb to the cold of an unseasonal snow storm.... Life is inherently risky, and those who go into the wilderness assume those risks.

[symbolman]

66. Sounds like you've had a brush or two with nature yourself

:)

Some of those items you reveal never even occurred to ME, and like I said, I lived for two LONG summers all over the face of Alaska, having seen every square mile East/West and North of Fairbanks..

Never thought about hail wiping someone off a mountain face.. but I've seen skeletons of baby mountain goats laying on ledges hundreds of feet in the air, I'd love to show what I've seen to everyone, I'm willing to bet they'd CHANGE if they saw what we did, people are so separated from nature that they need emissaries like the poor dead man and discovery on TV to get back to nature..

It's sad, or I've been incredibly lucky to see all I have :)

Connected, that's what we all want really, to be and feel connected.

thanks!

[hlthe2b]

74. Fortunately my encounters were all with well trained

companions, who instilled in me the precautions necessary to travel into the backcountry... I learned that the planning and preparation might take 2 or 3 times longer than the trip itself and why that is a GOOD THING....

I've seen lots of craziness, though. Like the tourists in slick-soled cowboy boots that try to trek up Long's Peak--one of the most proximal 'Fourteeners' to the Denver area-- in Rocky Mountain National Park. While this is not normally a technical climb, by any means, it takes little rain to make it treacherous and falls become common.

No one is immune to accidents--something even our most experienced outbackers sometimes forget. Accidents can (and have) killed the recreational climbers as well as those who've conquered Everest and K2.

This weekend marks the fifth day of a major search in Boulder County for a 21 yo marine, who fell while climbing with a friend. The friend stayed with him until conscious, then went for help. When the search party returned, he was gone and after five days of freezing nightime temperatures and failure of dog teams to locate, the search has ended. Whether he wandered off, disoriented, or something else--we may never know.

[symbolman]

249. I lived in Boulder for a time

shitty fireworks, they were chinzy, better ones in Loveland, etc :)

While I was there a 10 year old and an adult got killed by a mountain lion just out walking in the higher elevations. People don't even realize how dangerous nature is, it's there to DIGEST YOU, break you back down into components and use them ..

Beautiful there. :)

[northzax]

379. so what you're saying is

it's ok to harrass a grizzly with a chopper, but not a stingray with a camera? You, too, were in a place you shouldn't have been, interfering with animals you should not have been interfering with. Your use of a chopper to interfere with and harass the grizzly is disgusting, in your own philosophy.

you complain about Irwin swimming with a stingray, with nothing but a camera, but you can use a 5,000 pound helicopter to harass grizzlies, and it's ok? you should have died that day, and your last words should have been "thank god, I got what was coming to me"

at least, according to the standard you apply to others, that is.

[BikeWriter]

65. BRAVA! to everything you said. I have held my own children..

around horses and dogs capable of rending them apart. Were they ever harmed? Not in the least.

[LostinVA]

68. I just said the same thing to my SO

I grew up with farm kids and crabber kids -- if their childhoods had been videotaped, their parents would have been skewered, too.... including stuff around horses, cattle, boats, etc. It's all according to what you're used to...

[hlthe2b]

87. I smiled when I read your posts... as there is a bit of 'cultural'

disconnect it seems when it comes to risks on the farm, the western wilderness, among east coast fishermen. What would be logical steps to teach--even very young children-- not to unnecessarily fear livestock or wildlife, to be safe in these environments and habitats-- might appear as child cruelty to others.

Farming has long been one of the most dangerous occupations in this country, for instance, yet pre-teen boys (and girls) have long been expected to ride the tractors and work the other dangerous equipment, waived from the regulations that impact minors working elsewhere. What is "normal" or "expected," and what constitutes "acceptable hazards" really are situational, it seems....

A bit of a "trite" example, I guess, but I never fail to commend a parent who endeavors to teach their very young child how to approach a strange dog and how to ensure it is ok to interact with or to "pet." No matter how hurried I might be, if I have my dog with me, I will always put her in a "sit," and encourage the child to pet her. These early interactions are invaluable to preventing misunderstandings that really can put a child (or adult) at risk.

[LostinVA]

97. Yup, especially when the Zoo is literally in your back yard

Little Bindi Sue had a snake show at the Zoo when she was about four.

I've seen toddlers toddling around cow pastures and horse paddocks, little kids driving tractors and trucks, three-year-olds playing with live crabs -- I worked on my uncle's boat when I was twelve. Things much worse than that. That's why Steve Irwin's little stunt with Bob didn't freak em out... I just looked at the SO and said, "The media's gonna kill him for this." And it did. He was catching crocs when he was a teenager.

Btw... my parents taught me how to approach a strange dog when I was very small. I've never been bitten.

[FARAFIELD]

232. IVE Never been bitten either

AND IM A MAILMAN AND THATS SAYING ALOT, ALTHOUGH MY WIFES A VET AND HAS BEEN BITTEN A FEW TIMES BY DOGS

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

91. Haha...there are pictures of me holding up lobsters with no bands at 3.

My dad taught me how to handle stuff and not be scared by basically just being like, "here hold this crab/lobster/bug. Try not to get bit. It'll hurt like hell." He also taught me how to swim the same way his father taught him how to swim. He threw me in the water and told me to swim. The family pit bull/shepherd mix was probably the best babysitter a kid could have and I started getting lessons in how to fight when I was five.

Yep, all things in which a kid could get hurt, but I turned out okay and I'm pretty fearless, but respectful of animals and the water.

[LostinVA]

101. We used to play with live crabs when we were little

Have races with them. We also used to put lizards on our earlobes like earrings -- yes, they clamped onto our earlobes with their teeth and just hung there. My Dad taught me to chop wood when I was eight.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

106. Yeah, I played with crabs too when we went crabbing.

We also used to go down to Sandy Hook and play with all sorts of sea life during low tide. I've stepped on plenty of horseshoe crabs and gotten stung by plenty of jellyfish. We moved into the suburbs, near woods and lakes, when I was 10. I always had way more freedom than my friends. Since we were moving out of a pretty rough urban area, my parents basically figured that I was streetwise to handle myself with whatever. So basically I had a bike and a small motorboat at my disposal at all times. All they basically knew was that I was off somewhere within a few mile radius and I'd be home around dark.

[LostinVA]

113. My sister terrorized me with horseshoe crabs

They scared me -- their wriggling legs -- they are related to spiders, you know. She used to grab the poor things and chase me around. Their tails hurt, too. (this was my younger sister, btw. How embarrassing.)

Yeah, I've been stung by the jellies, too -- HURTS.

[elehhhhna]

208. Last Saturday while sitting at an outdoor cafe I watched no less than

6 pre-schoolers walk up to a pair of leashed pugs--no owner visible-and put THEIR FACES in the strange dogs' faces, while their parents (3 couples) stood by, blankly beaming.

Newsflash: Some people are clueless.

People who know animals know that they're unpredictable.

[XOKCowboy]

270. My mom did it to me and her mom did it to her...

Sheesh. Actually I'm grateful for the experience.

[CabalPowered]

67. Good post.

:thumbsup:

RIP Steve

[Midlodemocrat]

96. Great post. I liked the guy just for the reasons you indicated.

[SmokingJacket]

58. You're right.

The worst thing you can do to wildlife is to make them acclimated to humans -- and it's wrong to teach kids that wildlife is there to be played with.

There's a great organization out in Montana -- The Center for Wildlife Information -- that teaches kids to respect and enjoy wildlife by keeping their distance. In Montana the focus is bears, of course, but it applies to all wildlife.

I never saw the guy on teevee, and I feel terrible for his family.

But I don't respect the way he gained his fame.

[symbolman]

63. I lived in Alaska for ten years

and you wouldn't BELIEVE what some people would do.. there was one mother from New Jersey, a city gal.. who ACTUALLY POURED HONEY onto her kid's hands to get a picture of the "cute" bear licking it off.

the bear ATE the little girl's hands.

I've lived in the tundra in a small tent with a group prospecting for Uranium North/East and West of Fairbanks.. saw every square mile by chopper.. crashed in ANWR, I was up there for two summers, and I can tell you that NO ONE who hasn't been there has any idea how MUCH LIFE is there..

The tundra looks flat as a pool table and the sun moves AROUND the horizon like a sundial, and you cannot judge distance as there is nothing to gauge distace visually..

We came close to being killed by bears, Grizzlies and Moose who will kick the shit out of you.. at one point we got into trouble for chasing a female bear and two cubs UP a mountain with a chopper and then DOWN again to see which way they ran faster, the old Saw is that if a bear is after you to run downhll as they are not made for that and will be slower.. not true.. we proved it, and I'm embarrassed that I ever did it.. the mother bear abandoned the cubs as well..

So I know firsthand about NOT using animals except or food and or clothing, other wise the earth belongs to them as much as us, maybe more..

thanks for your insights :)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

76. Well, that mother was an idiot.

It had nothing to do with being a city gal from NJ. Trust me. I live in Jersey. The black bear danger gets so hyped up, it's absurd, especially with city people. And I know that black bears are absolutely nothing compared to a grizzly.

And as for complaining that Steve Irwin disrepected wildlife, well I've never seen him do anything that could compare to chasing a mother bear and cubs with a helicopter causing her to abandon the cubs. Whether or not you're embarassed by that now, it is still SICKENING that you or anyone else ever thought that would be a good idea. So I wouldn't be giving the dead Steve Irwin too much of a hard time. At least he actually educated people and worked for the conservation of animals.

[symbolman]

251. hilarious

it's okay now that HE bullied animals for money, but I mention that it's WRONG for me to have hassled animals (along with Vietnam Vet pilots who were actually flying the chopper) and there's no excuse..

classic.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

259. I suggest you go and actually research what he has done for conservation.

Then, come back and tell me what you did. Also, the "bullying" he was doing to crocs was to move them to a safe location.

Oh yeah, and what is your excuse for harassing bears with a copter?

[symbolman]

266. Oh no babies were involved all adults

and no excuse, I've said that all along, don't understand why you don't GET that I said it was a BAD THING, and that I was ashamed of doing it, which would mean to most people, "Gee maybe *I* shouldn't do that either.."

A LESSON, silly.

So using a baby to herd crocs is SMART? They do that a lot?

Jesus.

[demobabe]

273. Yes, Steve Irwin has done a lot for conservation

But I can't condone the ways in which he presented animals to children. Yes, he taught a lot and had a lot of good information to share, but the office pool was always on how the guy was going to die based on his interactions with animals.

You work with wild animals long enough, you're going to get bitten, stung, or clawed.

There is a responsibility to promote safety around animals, and while Steve Irwin's shows were fun and exciting, I would not want my child handling or behaving around animals in the fashion he did.

My "friendly" iguana who loves and trusts me (in his own lizardly way) still managed to pull the flesh from the bone on my left index finger, requiring several stitches. He didn't like those bright yellow gloves I was wearing that day to keep another cut on my hand from being exposed to lizard germs and ever so gently nipped the glove to show his dislike. Didn't feel a thing until I took the glove off and found it was filled with blood. Even as careful as I always was, I succumbed to doing something dumb (yellow gloves) and getting bitten.

I grew up around animals and handled them extensively and found out as a kid that those crab pinchers do hurt and they're hard to get off your finger, and if you put your finger in front of a little lizard, he'll probably bite you...

But not all kids are as exposed to animals as I was, and they need to learn respect. Lessons like: treat reptiles like guns and keep the end with the teeth pointed away from you. Not lessons like: put your face in front of the lizard and try to get out of the way if it lunges at your face to bite you like I've seen on Croc Hunter.

With that said, I'm really sad about Steve Irwin's death. I do appreciate him for his conservation and love for kids and animals. The sad reality is he was playing Russian roulette with nature. My condolences to his family - I hope they can move on from this heartbreak. And as horrid as this whole event is, I hope it may bring about some awareness of safety when handling or being in the presence of wild animals.

R.I.P. Steve Irwin

[Batgirl]

84. how horrible that a parent would put honey

on her child to create a photo op, only to have the bear attack the child. I can only hope that snopes is right, maybe it is more of a legend based on a somewhat more innocuous incident. Not that I doubt there are people capable of such ignorance.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/malice/bearmaul.htm

[elehhhhna]

209. S'man, is it true that polar bears don't posture before they attack?

Like, they don't growl, snarl, etc? I've heard that they attack by simply sauntering over and biting your face off. True or false? THX.

[symbolman]

253. Never met one, dunno

but I do know that you are NEVER under any circumstances to EAT their LIVER.. it is so highly concentrated in B-Vitamins that it will Kill you..

Like I'm ever going to have a chance to eat a Polar bear Liver :)

I learned that while crashed on the other side of the Brooks Range in Alaska, it took them three days to find us and they Knew where were were!

Chopper broke a fuel line and we went done on auto rotate and on fire.. I ran for a few miles then realized that if the chopper went up I'd be all alone in the tundra with two burnt corpses, my pals, and that's FOOD. So I ran back and actually RIPPED some of the tin panels of the chopper OFF with my Bare Hands trying to get at the fire..

then we sat around for three days reading the same magazines and survival books hoping we didn't see a brown blob on the horizon, and in the tundra you can see one for a LONG way, you KNOW you're going to die.. we had a stupid survival rifle, a .22, which pissed me off - "What am I going to Kill with this? An Enraged DUCK?"

It's customary in Alaska to save the last round for yourself, if the bear doesn't drop, and you can shoot them and they'll STILL kill you not knowing they're DEAD already (like a bounce I knew once), so instead of listening to their teeth dragging across the bones of your skull you can kill yourself.

Rough up there, some miners have crawled to town eating their toes, black from frostbite to make it there alive.

[elehhhhna]

306. I think I just threw up a little bit.

You could have spared me that last line. :puke:

Thanks for the rest of the post, though. :yoiks:

[symbolman]

316. Sorry about that

I was a little queasy when I heard of stuff like that too, and a lot of it I didn't believe.. but there is a bar up north where they serve a drink with a dead man's toe in it, think it's in Canada..

When I mined for gold up north I worked as a bartender in a gold miner bar, saw things that I guess would make a lot of people sick.. people in Alaska in the bush think nothing of sewing up a wound with dental floss, not being able to see a doctor, etc.

We were called the "Harrison Creek Savages" when we mined for gold up there, stories, I got stories..

Thanks for not barfing on ME, my apologies for the stark portrayal :)

[elehhhhna]

330. No harm done. Guess I'm just not frontier gal material.

[never_get_over_it]

61. BTW birds will not let their babies die if humans touch them

most birds have a poor sense of smell if any at all -

If a featherless or downy baby bird with eyes closed falls from the nest- put it back into the nest. Don't worry about touching them - mother birds will take them back!

http://www.illinoisraptorcenter.org/howto.html

I didn't always like some of the things this guy did but for God's sake he is dead let him rest in peace....

On edit: I do agree with many of the things you said - especially the thing with his baby - that was beyond boneheaded - I'm just really uncomfortable speaking ill of the dead - well most of them anyway....

[symbolman]

69. He'd probably just say

"Crickey, I swore I was three inches further away.." :)

He had guts I'll hand him that, but that will only take you so far.. my family is Irish, we don't really feel bad about death, we have parties and tell lies :)

[never_get_over_it]

86. One of my best friends is Irish (American)

and unfortunately has had way too many deaths in her family lost both parents and two brothers before she was 35 - I'm quite familiar with Irish funerals and wakes - don't know if it is true for them that they don't feel bad about death but it sure is true we told lots of funny stories and did a lot of laughing at the wakes - sure this isn't just an Irish thing - think it is a thing to help the living cope with the loss.

[symbolman]

245. I've only seen it personally at Irish funerals

when my own mother died we sat at the wake and told stories about LIFE and laughed and laughed.. I think the Irish have a "justice" gene, and having been treated as a "lower" race, have developed a form of spirituality that allows them to deal with life in a jocular fashion.. many things are funny to me that aren't to others, and of course the Irish made great judges, cops, mafia and a President :)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

88. Yes, we have parties and tell lies, but we don't bash the dead. nt

[LostinVA]

226. Us too

[symbolman]

246. Some of us do and that would be me

some people tell the truth as they see it, and that would be me.. now as for me being wrong, that would be another story, another person's OPINION of which of course, THIS is MINE..

I'm not bashing anyone, I'd say this to his face alive or dead. He was rude to God's creatures, a bully for money.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

70. That pic was photoshopped if I ever saw a photoshop.

Maybe he DID choose his fate a long time ago, but he knew a LOT about the animal kingdom, and for a lot of people, he was entertaining and knowledgeable.

[symbolman]

71. If there's a picture of him waving a baby around a croc it's real

there's Video of it, and it's horrifying.. he actually bounces the kid on the ground, after waving it around..

I'm sure he was properly chastised by someone, his wife, etc.. but as one person put it, it was a boneheaded thing to do..

[mtnsnake]

360. Nice job of sesationalizing a mistake that he admitted

You make it sound as though he waved the baby right in front of the crocodile's mouth for crise sakes.

[alarimer]

75. That's pretty fucking disgusting n/t

[truth2power]

77. Symbolman..you're incorrect about the baby birds...

I've taken state wildlife rehabilitation training and worked with a rescue group.

Birds have a very poor sense of smell, and the idea that if you touch them the parents will abandon them is not true. If you find a nestling (a young bird without feathers) that has obviously fallen out of the nest, it's best to just return it to the nest if possible.

It's even possible to rig up a substitute nest (if the original has been destroyed) made from a margarine tub. Punch holes in the bottom and line with dry material. Nail or tie to a branch near where the original nest was. But you have to observe to make sure the new nest is accepted by the adults.

Often people see fledglings hopping on the ground but unable to fly, and they think they're abandoned. Most often, the parents are nearby, and it's best to just leave the bird alone. Keep your cats and dogs out of the area, of course. :)

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joey Liberal]

115. "the man was Very disrespectful to animals," WTF?

The man was pro-wildlife and pro-environment. You must be confusing him with Rush Limbaugh.

[stepnw1f]

155. Wow man

what a warped thing to say. Lol...

[Odin2005]

210. Disrespectful to animals? WTF?

He was one of the biggest defenders of animals that most people dispise (like crocs, sharks, snakes and spiders) out there. You probably think I am evil as well because I collected, killed, and pinned up insects in a invertebrate zoology class. :eyes:

[cboy4]

228. Oh boo-effing-hoo. He did far, far more good than he did harm.

Do you know how many crocodiles he rescued from their certain deaths?

Did you happen to see the show where, with tears streaming down his face, he picked up the little bodies if lizards that were killed in a wildfire?

You're a progressive and you're this judgmental?

Anyway, have a terrific day celebrating Steve's death. :puke:

[symbolman]

347. So is THIS is where the

term "Celebrating his death" came from? I've been wondering, as you posted to other people that it had been in some Deleted posts.

NO ONE I have seen is "Celebrating his Death", that's complete and utter bullshit.

I'm welcome to my opinion and so is everyone else, but making THIS kind of shit up and passing this term, and "hate" and garbage like that to get people riled up is beyond the pale.

There's a Big difference between people that didn't like this guy, or Elvis or JFK or whoever, and "Celebrating his death"..

Who are all these people that keep saying this and why are they doing it?

I'm tired of trolls or whoever picking up ONE person's post, SPINNING it and then creating a big Hatefest with it, this shit needs to stop.

And there are people on this thread actually telling someone to their face to FUCK OFF, is this a new trend? Just tell the mods to delete a FUCK OFF and stroll away? Out of control.

This is not an AOL Chatroom, people shouldn't sit there and PEN Phrases and use them to crucify any person on this board.

I personally have no problem with disagreements, but I think the word "HATE" needs to be banned from all discussions.

Can't believe the personal attacks I've seen on people today (and I'm not talking about me, I have a thicker skin than that after 5 years here), whole threads attacking "certain groups", a bunch of vague accusations when maybe ONE person said something that an OP disagrees with, that is DIVISIVE and not the way this board had worked before.

People telling someone that their wife "deserved" a BROKEN ARM as a Vet? Wishing Genital Herpes on people?

All this WHILE they call other people "DISGRACEFUL" or "Disrespectful".. anyone see the disconnect here?

Outrageous.

[cboy4]

348. Oh, you've been one of the three primary nuts who have made me sick to

my stomach today.

I've read all of your remarks, and they are disgusting.

You could not be happier Irwin is dead....it is clear by your little comments (some which I believe were deleted) and your joy over that despicable animation of the stingray chasing him, and the photo shop picture of the stingray's barb sticking through his chest with blood drooling out of his mouth.

How funny. How nice.

You have a lot of never acting all concerned about any sort of "hate fest," when you've been one of the happy haters.

Please. You don't fool me.

[mtnsnake]

363. Amen, cboy

You're not alone in feeling that disgust

[symbolman]

384. BULLSHIT

I had NOTHING to do with those animations or ANY Photoshop or comments about them, and you damn well know it.

I also have NEVER made any remark that could be construed as being HAPPY that foolish man was DEAD.

You are spreading LIES about me with this post and I demand you apologise for these LIES.

This is an Attack by you Personally against me, either apologise or I will report you, this lying and smearing of people who have not done these things ends here.

[ronnykmarshall]

239. How niiiiiiiicccccceeeee!

[ClintonTyree]

16. Crikey!

The guy DID flirt with disaster on a regular basis. He had to know, or should have known, that his demise would come at the hands (tails, fangs, claws or spines) of the very animals he so very loved.
He was a great naturalist but his methods seemed unsound at times. Oh well, he lived the live he loved and I'm sure there were no regrets.
Eer's to ya', mate! :toast:

[HereSince1628]

17. Yeah! Crikey!!!

You beat me to it.

[Epiphany4z]

19. aww man the good ones always go

He will be missed. He was one of the good ones...he brought my family together once a week we all sat around and watched his show. He was one of the doors to many of our talks about how important the environment was ...he really brought a lot to the world. He will be missed ...I agree he lived the life he loved ...not everyone can say that.

[JVS]

280. Crikey, you're right mate!

[Cooley Hurd]

18. My condolences to Steve's family, and to Australia...

This is the banner from news.com.au:
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5235179,00.jpg

How sad. :(

[blueknight]

21. wow! she's a beaut!

steve loved to say that about huge crocs. steve was a great enviromentalist,and bought a lot of joy to people. RIP mr irwin.

[Uroboros]

22. My condolences to Steve's family as well...

...his wife is left without a husband; his children without a father. Though his death doesn't really come as much of a surprise considering the risks he took. Unfortunately some people seem to forget that these are wild animals who purely act (and react) on instinct. They're not props for our amusement or education.

Time to stop poking at the wildlife.

[WinkyDink]

30. Not for our education? So shows about the near-extinction of tigers, e.g.,

should never be made?

[symbolman]

33. Maybe he should have made a show

where he stuck his BABY in the mouth of a tiger instead of his head?

A BIG piece of Meat, I have no problem with.. a CHILD?

He should have been arrested and charged for that. Nothing heroic about it.

[ForrestGump]

117. Actually, a true environmental hero would have fed his

baby to the croc. There're too many humans on this planet, and we're the root cause of most of its (and our) ills, so everyone should form a line with their babies, in front of the big crocodile.

I'd damn well better not need a 'sarcasm' smiley.

[symbolman]

254. I would like to see a modified virus

that got rid of everyone in my way, at the store, the gas station, in the movies.. I bet someone could make one too..

Actually I bet a gator under every sink would make a great organic garbage disposal :)

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[U4ikLefty]

143. Great Post!!! n/t

[symbolman]

256. Yes, PLEASE - not kidding

I would want you to do all that, and also to say, "That bastard OWED ME 500 BUCKS!" while you were at it.. funerals are for the biggest whoppers, and actally that would be cheating, you'd be telling the Truth :)

I remember stomping on ants as a little kid, my brother showed up and said, "How would you like it if a big foot came out of the sky and crushed you?"

I never looked at animals the same way since.

And when I write my tell all book, where I make the realization that most of what I did in my life was WRONG, and that's how you learn and STOP doing those things, you can mention that too..

But don't forget the 500 bucks, that will be my most sweet revenge, skipping out on the funeral bar tab :)

[earth mom]

166. You know what? You have taken over and ruined this thread about Steve!

A beloved man has DIED! Where is your god damn respect for that?! I've had enough of your disrespect of him on this thread! :grr:

If you knew ANYTHING about Steve you would know how much he loved animals and how much he loved kids!!! That he made an error in judgment with his kid is NOT enough to crucify him on this thread!!! Why don't you save your criticism for the real criminals in Washington D.C. and leave Steve alone?!!!

And one more bit of advice that I was taught as a kid-If you don't have anything good to say about someone, then don't say anything at all!!!

RIP Steve-you were loved and will be sorely missed! :cry:

[etherealtruth]

192. "You know what? You have taken over and ruined this thread about Steve!"

Which simply conveys disrespect to fellow DU'ers ... distressed at the tragic death of Steve Irwin

[earth mom]

198. FYI-I am disrespecting no one!

I am calling a poster on the vile crap they posted about Steve. Which was totally disrespectful and unnecessary! I'm not the only one to feel that way on this thread if you've even read it all the way through.

Exactly what was the point of your reply?! :wtf:

[etherealtruth]

201. Wow, take a breath and chill ...

I posted to agree with your comment and add my belief that not only were their comments tasteless but that they were actually disrespecting fellow DU'ers and NOT Steve Irwin.

I don't know whether I communicated poorly or if you simply misunderstood; but in either case I am sorry that my intended message was not understood.

[elehhhhna]

243. it didn't read the way you intended. Happens to the best of us.

[etherealtruth]

274. That's why I apologized ...

Doesn't even matter if it did read as I had intended ... it wasn't receieved that way :)

[earth mom]

267. Opps, thank you for explaining! I'm sorry for what I posted to you!

:hi:

[etherealtruth]

277. That's the problem with brief online communication ...

It's hard to be sure if you (meaning me) are communicating in a clear manner (I wasn't :()

[Name removed]

262. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Uroboros]

38. Of course you can make shows educating people about animals

..as long as they're not being harassed. As long as it doesn't turn into some kind of circus act. I don't think he had to be close enough to a sting-ray to get stabbed by one so the public can be educated about sting-rays. My guess is that for some reason he felt like he had to be in the shot and it cost him. Well there you go kids..lesson for the day; don't get too close to dangerous animals. It might not appreciate your foolishness.

Heck I had a cat. Not exactly a beast of the jungle. But I knew enough not to mess with it like it was some toy.

Anyhow it's unfortunate it had to come to this.

[undeterred]

23. I'm so sad, but he did take a lot of risks

I can hardly believe that he made it to 44 with all four limbs.
A lovely man, who lived life to the fullest.

[Quixote1818]

216. I don't think he took a lot of "life taking" risks

He always had plenty of experienced people around him who could have saved him had he been bitten by a poisonous snake or bitten by an alligator. They were certainly risks but the chances of him dying from those risks was low. What happened with the sting ray was a complete fluke however if you deal with poisonous animals on a regular basis the probability of a "fluke" eventually happening goes up.

I really liked and admired they guy. It's very sad to see him go.

[liberalnurse]

25. What a great father......

Father to natures creatures and father to his own two small children....His love was immeasurable. :cry:

[vickitulsa]

26. The first time I ever saw Steve Irwin I thought he was

a complete flake! Crikey, indeed -- and I already did love Aussies. I'm also a diehard animal-lover and -watcher, and Steve began appearing more and more often on Animal Planet where I kept encountering him. In pretty short order, he grew on me and I recognized his sometimes outlandish and overdone enthusiasm as very genuine for him at least. I love animals every bit as much as he did, but I'm not QUITE as effusive about it. :D

Still, I don't think his extravagant style was anything but natural, and I suspect those who objected to it tend to be people who prefer to repress their emotions a great deal, eh? ;)

I think everyone who is an animal enthusiast and especially those who spend a lot of time around the wild creatures of our planet are well aware they are taking risks every time they get near a deadly predator. Even a beast who is not normally aggressive but which has serious defensive capabilities can kill ya.

There's no way someone who had wrestled crocodiles since he was a child did NOT know he put his life on the line on a regular basis, and I expect he figured the chances were pretty high he'd eventually die in one of his many wild animal encounters. It was obviously a chance he was willing to take, and I can't fault him for living his dream even if it was a high risk one.

As he did so, he may have taken some foolish chances on occasion (hey, he was human after all), but I think he had a great deal of respect and love for animals. Simply by drawing a lot of attention to the plight of wildlife everywhere, he did the animal world a huge favor, IMO. I think the positives of his life far outweigh the negatives, so he should be remembered that way and honored for his many contributions. If the animals could, I'll bet they would applaud his efforts to further their wellbeing and survival!

I had an uncle who was a horse-lover like me and who kept riding even after he'd had two heart attacks and was in his sixties. He wouldn't go out alone, but he still went on long rides as often as he could.

One day outside of Chama, NM, where he had a "mountain place" to escape to from Escondido, CA in the summers and where he loved riding on the trails of the rocky, tree-strewn hillsides, he left the house with his best (human) friend riding beside him and he was astride his favorite mare, Molly. Uncle Gabe and his pal were several miles into the wilderness when that last "big one" struck, and his friend told us that he was sure Gabe was dead before he hit the ground. Yep, major heart attack killed him as he rode!

What was so cool about it, and all of us who knew and loved Gabe thought so even at the time, was that his friend had no options in the situation except to throw Gabe's body across the saddle on Molly's back and lead her the long miles back to the house. We all felt Gabe would have loved it! At his funeral, even his wife kept saying, "He died a perfect death for Gabe."

Sometimes karma is kind as well as cruel.

RIP Steve Irwin, and my Uncle Gabe too!

[WinkyDink]

27. RIP, Steve. I loved your "Crikey!" The world will miss your love of

animals, your tireless efforts at conservation and education, and your engaging personality.

Sincere condolences to your wife and children.

[cherokeeprogressive]

282. My daughter used to say "SPOIDAH!" n/t

[malaise]

28. pix

http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/2006/09/04/1157222054975.html

[Flubadubya]

51. Thanks so much for the slide show...

Never did I imagine that I would shed a tear for Steve Irwin, but seeing that I just had to wipe my eyes. Steve, you will be missed! :loveya:

[undeterred]

32. great pic

[Bunny]

54. Oh that's a great pic!

:D

[Sugarcoated]

34. He was a little nutty but I liked him.

Of all the animals that could have killed that guy, it's a stingray . . .

Tip of the Fosters to you Steve.

[NOLADEM]

35. Good...got what was coming to him

Torturing and harassing animals in order to get rich while bullshitting that he is a conservationist is a farce. He got what was coming to him.

There is NO need to jump on animals, wrestle them, grab them by the throats and taunt them in order to observe them. That is just the kind of base entertainment America's brain is rotting from.

What ever happened to Wild Kingdom or Jacques Cousteau, observing the animals while attempting to blend into the environment, attempting to view their natural behavior as a fly on the wall?

His shows were of ZERO educational value, because you learn nothing of an animal's natural behavior when you have some Aussie redneck buffoon jumping them like some six year old off of his Ritalin.

This is the same moron who fed crocodiles while holding his newborn.

He tempted fate day after day, harassing beautiful creatures to get rich. Got what was coming to him. I am sorry for his family's loss, but Karma is a bitch, and a little part of me chuckled at his comeuppance when I saw this happened.

Good riddance Stevie.

[Sugarcoated]

36. Wow!

You're cold as ice, damn

Why are people so over the top around here? Yeez

[LostinVA]

42. Agreed

I didn't always agree with some of his methods, but he really was a sincere and true conservationist.

And, I for one found his programs very educational, even with the hijinks. Especially the Croc Diaries show. That was a very interesting Zoo show. I'm thinking some people on here have only seen him as his most bombastic.

Re: holding Bob while feeding a croc. I guess I grew up a bit too redneck, because I didn't freak out like some people did. Irwin shouldn't have done it, but there was no way the croc was going to get Bob -- though I'm sure many posters will tell me I'm wrong.

[etherealtruth]

188. I found him very endearing and entertaining ...

Sometimes it is necessary to be entertaining to bring a message (that he was obviously so passionate about) to the masses.

I adored his quirkiness and am genuinely saddened by his tragic death.

It is very disheartening to see some of the tasteless and insensitive comments posted on threads where fellow DU'ers are so saddened by Steve Irwin's demise.

[durrrty libby]

78. I believe liberals are a truly empathetic and compassionate bunch.

After all, that is the heart and soul of the party.

So, when the cold, heartless types show up, they stick out like a sore thumb and it makes one wonder why they even bother calling themselves liberal.

To me it is bizarre and disingenuous.

:hurts: :thumbsdown:

[alarimer]

81. It is disgusting

they are not human, obviously.

[FearofFutility]

174. Some liberals only have compassion for those

that are "pure" (i.e., do no harm to animals or the planet, and are perfect liberals). They are chasing rainbows. No one is pure.

RIP, Steve.

[earth mom]

170. Most of the comments so far are totally disgusting!

Where in the hell is the respect for the dead?! :puke:

[FearofFutility]

175. I'm disgusted as well.

Some are sounding very freeper-like.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. I hope people show more compassion when you die.

There is *nothing* more contemptible that attacking someone recently dead. There's no pressure on you to express regret for their death, but if you don't have anything good to say about them then you should have the basic human decency to wait until their ashes are cold before piling on.

Shame on you.

[Sugarcoated]

62. I actually lost a lot of respect for him when he put his kid in harms way

but I still liked him, he wasn't evil, and I certainly wouldn't ever wish this on him. I don't even wish it on the Shrub and I hate his guts.

[Homer Wells]

148. Even celebrities are HUMAN!!

I'm constantly amazed that people who are in the public eye are expected to behave perfectly and with no errors in their actions. I consider myself a pretty decent guy, but I have done the occasional bonehead thing, (hell, many bone-headed things in my almost 60 years)and I hope like hell my obit doesn't accentuate all those things against what I hope has been a relatively decent life.
If, in his 42 short years, that was his 'stupidest' moment, he did pretty damn good!!
:shrug:

Rest in Peace, my friend

[woodsprite]

189. The vehemence dripping from some of these replies

sounds EXACTLY like what I heard from my freeper MIL when she said that Johnny Cochran got exactly what he deserved by dying from brain cancer. It was truly frightening. It makes me sick and also makes me question the hearts and souls of the people speaking that way.

RIP Steve!

[undeterred]

44. For me he made animals that are intimidating

seem interesting. I think there is a lot of educational value in letting people who know how to handle animals talk to you about them. He did a lot of good in his life.

[LostinVA]

45. It's the same flack Jack Hanna has also always gotten

Taking animals on TV shows, etc.

I think Steve Irwin was actually much more of an educator and conservationist than Hanna is, as much as I like Jungle Jack.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fleabert]

114. taunting?

did you ever watch the shows? He was way more humane with crocs than any other person I've ever seen. he loved those animals, they were never bloody after he moved them (usually saving their lives by removing them from a populated area where the public were ready to shoot). If you watch any other croc or alligator capture and removals you usually see a bloody and stressed animal. Never with Steve Irwin. I suggest you actually watch more than five minutes of his footage to get a clear perspective on his conservation and education efforts. He was amazing and did more for getting kids excited about repitiles, conservation, education, and preservation than anyone else.

too bad you can't be nice to a dead man, steve would have been nice to you though, since he loved cold-blooded animals.

[afrosia]

134. Ill educated rot

The only animals I saw him jump on were crocodiles. He needed to mount them in order to hold their jaws shut so they could be 'bagged' and relocated. He did not just jump on them for a laugh as you are implying.

Oh and I think you'll find he had a very modest house; most of his money went back into Australia Zoo!

[stepnw1f]

165. What a Tortured Post

Twist, turn, turn, twist....

[WilliamPitt]

186. This is an astonishingly fucked up thread

:shaking head:

[stepnw1f]

196. Hey Will... Your Article on Clinton's Anti-Terror Bill

is really popping some heads on the other side. I have been liberally sharing it via email, linking back to Truthout.

I really get a kick at how they try attacking it. Anyway... good stuff, Will. It opens eyes and minds. Somebody will always attack the truth and those who try their hardest to shed a little light on the lies permeating the "internets".

[WilliamPitt]

207. Thanks

I don't know what to tell you about that Buzzflash link with all the busted links. They worked for me last week, and the ones that didn't I was able to work around by googling up the content.

[stepnw1f]

211. I Still Managed to Get Some Links to Work

I googled a bit too... that info is dynamite; meaning it blows a whole right through the GOP talking points.

[wicket]

276. Amen to that

:(

[Garbo 2004]

235. Fishing is listed one of your hobbies. You bonk 'em on the head to kill

them quick in the water so they don't suffer much or do you reel them in and observe the beautiful creatures as they die?

We all accrue Karma. To rejoice in another's accidental death you must be awfully sure of your own.

[Fox Mulder]

248. That is the ugliest post I have ever read on the DU.

And I read this website during the 2004 primaries and election.

[mtnsnake]

307. You don't know squat

The good that Steve did for animals will far outweigh anything you have to whine about.

For crise sakes, the man spent his life educating the public about animals and he did it in a very entertaining way. If you ever spent any time watching his shows, you'd know he had way more respect for animals than what you give him credit for, but whine on.

[Name removed]

327. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

351. What you said, Rockinghamer!!!

[L A Woman]

380. did New Orleans get what was coming to it, too?

certainly many right wingers think so. when you're filled with hatred, it's easy to come up with stupid reasons to feel that way.

[leftchick]

37. aw shit!

my boys and I loved him.

:cry:


<snip>

"Steve, from all God's creatures, thank you. Rest in peace," was written on a card with a bouquet of native flowers.

:cry:

[rndmprsn]

41. very sad...i must have watched at least 20-30 of his documentaries...

they always seemed to be on discovery late @ night, i learned alot about mother nature and the animal kindom from that man, and he always seemed to care for the animals that were in his docs.

the crock hunter will be soreley missed in this household, RIP steve irwin.

[LostinVA]

43. Major typo in your post

[rndmprsn]

48. =] saw that thanks...

[ecstatic]

46. Why didn't he retire when his second child was born?

I don't want to judge, but he should have retired well before this incident, knowing that his luck would run out soon. Now his small children have to grow up without a father. At least it wasn't his son who was killed...

[ForrestGump]

120. Some of my colleagues who've worked with dangerous animals

(sharks, snakes, crocodilians, etc) for decades are now still doing it in their 50s, 60s, and 70s. I did it for a decade without major incident (at least directly from the animals I was studying) and wil probably do it again. There is no telling when your 'luck' will run out. He could just as easily have been hit by one of the drunk drivers that infest Queensland roads -- in fact, statistically, that was more likely.

[InvisibleTouch]

296. I've worked with/studied dangerous animals myself...

...and when it's what you love, it's what you do. You know the risks going in, and it's okay. Far better to have lived a short and fulfilled life than to drag oneself through a long and meaningless existence, full of wishful thinking and "if only"s. The best of all worlds, of course, is to live a long life doing what you love - but given the choice, I'll take the former over the latter. The truly sad thing in this case is that it was just a freak accident that could have happened to anyone. But he's got my absolute respect for living life on his own terms.

[ReverendDeuce]

50. It's only a matter of time when you antagonize wild animals...

Let's be honest here... Steve may have loved animals, but many times I'd seen video of him antagonizing the hell out of them. "Crikey, let's see what happens if I pinch its bum!" He was a strange dude.

[QuettaKid]

55. into his heart?

ouch....that's gotta sting!

[City Lights]

56. How very sad!

:-(

My condonlences to his wife and children.

I saw him on Letterman or Leno and he was talking about the cool life his daughter lived (his son wasn't born at the time). He said she basically lived like Mowgli.

[Annces]

57. Stung in the heart

He seemed like a sweet person, but he man-handled the animals and that is no good. Dangling his baby like that in front of the crocodile was loco.

I see people playing with those killer whales at theme parks, and I think it is only luck keeping them alive.

[elehhhhna]

80. Dolphins can also kill people. But so can dirty romaine lettuce,

carbon monoxide, and IEDs.

Having swum with stingrays in the Carribean (sometimes on purpose, at the sandbar on Grand Cayman, and sometimes by accident, when they just show up)I must say I'm shocked. The large ones (females) are very docile. The small ones (males) are fast & aggressive but they're only the size of a serving plate.

I feel for his family.

The only good to come from this is that stingray "city" in Cayman will lose a lot of traffic. Perhaps now the north sound reefs can recover. Steve's legacy of death by stingray will probably do more for reef conservation than he could have even imagined.

[Annces]

90. Dolphins don't chase down human-sized animals like seals for dinner

Killer whales have big smiles on their faces when they go in for the kill of seals and other large prey.

I worked at Sea World and used to watch the killer whales on my breaks. At one training session, one of the whales was misbehaving because it was mating season. The whale took the trainer by the leg and pushed him into the wall. This was one cocky dude too, but hia face went ashen. The whale had bitten through the wet suit, but luckily had not gone all the way with his mouth crunch.

[elehhhhna]

197. I agree about the K Whales. Dolphins have been known to kill BIG

sharks both in the wild AND in captivity. Dolphins have also attacked and killed people under both circumstances. My point is that Joe Sixpack is generally stupid and reckless when it comes to inteacting with wildlife --

We agree. We're using different analogies but we completely agree.

I'm a snorkeling fanatic & the only things I encounter that make me nervous are barracuda.

[XOKCowboy]

247. My heart took a shot yesterday....

It just felt like a dirty dagger though. :)

The man was a premier conservationist who had a large part in keeping Australia's crocodile population viable. His Animal Planet show taught millions of children about crocodiles and got them interested in environmental issues. He grew up around reptiles and HIS father probably did the same thing to him when he was a toddler.

There's a difference between tourists swimming with whales and what he was doing. Big difference.

[Roxy66]

59. This makes me so sad....n/t

[DawgHouse]

72. How very sad.

We always found him very educational and entertaining at the same time. He'll be missed.

[NC_Nurse]

82. Bummer.

My son watched him all the time when he was a little guy. He was so much fun...:cry:

[onecent]

93. Rest in Peace Steve. I loved you. That poor family. He was too

young and had so much to offer to our planet!

[ForrestGump]

94. I'm a trained conservation biologist, I don't like it when I see people

molesting wildlife (my bias is marine, and seeing things like people riding turtles or making pufferfishes puff up makes me see red), but I do believe that Steve Irwin made great contributions to conservation education, as well as some hands-on stuff. We need more people like him getting the word out -- it works, and it's just about all that'll work for many or most people who're not already especially interested in nature and the state of our natural systems. Steve Irwin might be worlds away from someone like me in terms of his academic background, but he knew the animals, the habitats, and the changes in and dangers to those species and their habitats, and he was no fool when it came to getting the word out in a manner that would stick. His children's shows, in particular, may have made a big difference.

You could, by the way, make just about every claim above (including those in the quoted sources) about Jacques Cousteau, who was very far from perfect. But old Jacques played a huge part in spreading an environmental ethic around the world and in inspiring people to explore and to care about the world -- and although he was never an academically-credentialed scientist or researcher, he also directly helped inspire me and the generation of marine scientists before me to do what we ended up doing.

There was an absolutely awful show on Discovery or Animal Planet called Extreme Contact that featured a longhaired f***wit named Manny Puig along with champion freediver Mehgan Heaney-Grier and some other f***knuckle named Moe, I think. That show was a piece of crap and I pray that it hasn't aired in years. Manny styles himself as a 'shark expert' but really he's just a spaced out Florida Keys dumbf*** who thinks he's Tarzan...he is one motherf***er I'd love to meet and just beat the everloving sh** out of before I even say hello...without immediate physical provocation, though his stupid TV ego trip was more than provocation enough. This Ted-Nugent-looking a**hole would harrass animals of all kinds into doing something 'vicious'and then go on about how savage they were. When I saw him get 'attacked' by a placid nurse shark, sort of as likely as getting your intestines torn out by a Pomeranian on Valium (my guideline is that almost anyone who is bitten by a nurse shark -- clamped on, more accurately -- not only thoroughly deserved it but should probably be fed to a real shark), I just couldn't take it any more, especially when he played the wound up as a serious injhury infliucted by a savage killer. What a f***ing f**wit f***head he is, and he deserves far more asterisks than that.

Now, the reason I bring up this execrable show, that I was ashamed occupied airwaves alongside that channel's more worthy output is that, outwardly, some might say that they were basically doing what Steve Irwin was doing on the other side of the world. If he was, I'd agree with the premise of your thread. The differences were huge, though. Steve promoted conservation, demystified so-called 'dangerous' animals, and squarely placed the blame for his mishaps where it belonged, on himself. He worked hard to promote conservation. He even dismissed the concept of 'sustainable use' as propaganda, a thing that academic ecologists are only lately recognizing. The ]Extreme Contact f***wits, by contrast, not only did not promote a conservation message (or any positive message) but played up, exaggerated, and outright fabricated the 'savagery' of the animals they molested just to boost their huge egos, Manny especially, and to provide for maximum posing value. They were self-aggrandizing thrillseekers and they were also outright liars. Their efforts were bereft of educational value -- they were negatively educational, in fact -- and the sensationalism was used only to magnify their (alleged) machismo and gonad size whereas Steve sensationalized (through hyperbolic language and enthusiasm, especially) to get across valuable points while holding viewers' interest (that latter feat not an easy task today). Steve deserves more recognition for his sincere conservation efforts -- if nothing else, for getting the message across far better than most trained conservation biologists ever could -- whereas everyone associated with Extreme Contact deserves to be taken to the nearest reef line, speargunned, and chopped up into chum for the tiger sharks -- how's that for your extreme f***ing contact, you wankers...


(I crossposted this from a thread in the Lounge when it was suggested that the fuckwit ratio in this thread was outside standard tolerances and could use input from someone who not only knows a thing or two about conservation and outreach from actual experience but who specialized in working with 'dangerous' predators and would undoubtedly also be accused of harboring a 'death wish' by some here assembled. Essentially, any of you assholes who're piling on Steve Irwin with sanctimonious crap based on spurious assumptions and false senses of superiority need to go fuck yourselves rather vigorously. You bloody drongos.)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

99. Good job!

:thumbsup:

[Junkdrawer]

100. At one point my brother was a professional diver for NOAA...

And he said that Jacques Cousteau had a reputation for being a dangerous cowboy and that many in the diving community blamed Jacques for his son's death.

Just saying...

[ForrestGump]

141. Cousteau was not a good man

He was an untrustworthy opportunist, a liar, a cheat, and lots of other unsavory things. Not a nice man, in general, the way he treated people (Jean-Michel included).

I loved him, before I knew all this, and I still do. He changed the world for people like me, and for many others. And he did a lot of good, directly and indirectly. He was a great man, but he was not a good man.

His death hit me hard, all the same -- I was diving several times a day on some of the world's most pristine reefs in the South Pacific when I heard the news. I wouldn't have been there had it not been for him. I'll never forget hearing it just as I will never forget the many positive aspects of his legacy.

[Junkdrawer]

156. Having never met Cousteau, I couldn't make a judgment on "good man"...

Just repeating some probably-informed opinions I heard.

As for Steve, my opinion is that Steve took too many chances. That was his fame and I believe he did it for several reasons, among the best of which may have been to help knock down some of the "dangerous man killer" myths. Problem is that when such a person, be it Steve, the Grizzly Man, or Siegfried and Roy, dies or is horribly injured in the course of knocking down said myths, the myths are reinforced stronger than ever.

[elehhhhna]

359. COusteau INVENTED SCUBA, and that's good enough for me.

Patent here: http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=US002485039&SectionNum=3&IDKey=DB2C6F8DC130&HomeUrl=http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2%2526Sect2=HITOFF%2526p=1%2526u=%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r=15%2526f=G%2526l=50%2526co1=AND%2526d=PALL%2526s1=cousteau.INNM.%2526OS=IN/cousteau%2526RS=IN/cousteau

[Midlodemocrat]

103. .

:applause:

:yourock:

[LostinVA]

104. Thanks for posting this here!

[ForrestGump]

142. Thanks for suggesting it

:hug:

[LostinVA]

149. You're welcome!

[Zodiak]

108. I agree with this post 100%

thanks for posting it, Gump.

[dogday]

109. Well said indeed! nt

[fleabert]

118. that was fucking awesome.

absolute perfection!


debate/argument CLOSED.

[buddhamama]

119. well said

and thank you for saying it.

[ForrestGump]

126. Please excuse my

naughtywords....


...but I am fucking pissed! :grr:




And I couldn't get to sleep yet... :-(

[LostinVA]

129. Told you so in the Lounge...

[buddhamama]

132. no excuse is needed

you're passionate and angry, completely understandable. i respect you for both your passion and anger.

thanks again.

[earth mom]

184. Don't apologize! Your words were spot on! The idiots that have been

posting on this thread pissed me off too, they deserved the tongue lashing and then some! :grr:

[Kingshakabobo]

131. Thank you! Spot on!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[The Traveler]

135. I think that about sums it up ... well said, man.

Damn, people have gotten hyper judgmental around here. WTF? Discernment is a skill. Those who can't distinguish between those "Extreme Contact" assholes and Steve Irwin need to pick it up.

[ForrestGump]

139. Thank you, and everybody who appreciated my input

It's just my opinion, but it's one I think is more informed than those of the people who'd kick him while his corpse is still warm. And it's not even about basic respect, but about denying someone's memory that basic respect when you are talking out of the wrong orifice in doing so. If you didn't like him in life, fine, but expect to get called on it at a moment like this when you're just plain wrong.

[ms liberty]

151. A truly excellent and informative post, ForrestGump...

and I greatly appreciate your adding it.

Although he was a person of great enthusiasm, he had a lot of respect for the animals he studied. I never saw him "harassing" animals, but he was childlike in his interest and wasn't afraid to handle them. There's a big difference between handling and harassment. We all learned a lot about wildlife from him, and we all are the better for it.

He lived as he died, and it seems he died quickly, doing what he loved most - exploring nature and filming it to teach others. While apparently he miscalculated in the distance between himself and the manta ray, the article lays it out pretty clearly that it was a freak kind of accident. Or at least that's the way it reads to me.

RIP, Steve Erwin - Thank you and Godspeed

[KFC]

153. Hell Yes

Excellent. RIP Steve, a truly outstanding human being and strong animal advocate. And fuck you to the haters. Ignorant cunts.

[stepnw1f]

160. First... Thank You for This Post

Since I am not a conservationist and could learn more about it myself. Second, thank you for the work you do. I know you don't need a pat on the back, just thought it would be a positive way to encourage you and others like yourself to keep up the fight. I have always loved nature and it kills me everyday to see man destroying it.

[fishwax]

341. Thanks for a thoughtful and highly informative post

:yourock:

[RoyGBiv]

344. Brilliant post, thanks ...

I've spent most of my time on DU today, starting last night when the first few threads emerged, hitting "ignore thread" but for some reason decided to read this one. Glad I did. This is the best post on this subject I have read all day.

[undeterred]

98. He had a "life- wish" not a "death-wish"

How many of us have found something we are so passionate about that we are willing to take all kinds of risks to share it with others? I will always think of him as someone who enjoyed every minute of life. I'll bet if you gave him the choice of the exciting life he led that ended at 44 or a much calmer but boring existence till 88 he wouldn't do it any differently.

[LostinVA]

107. Oh, wonderful point!

And, he's passed this passion to his daughter.

[ForrestGump]

144. Yes!!!

:yourock:

[citizen snips]

111. oh well

it was bound to happen sooner or later.

[ForrestGump]

128. If you mean that everyone eventually dies...

Sure

[citizen snips]

140. He has been playing with death for a long time.

and death caught up to him.

[smoogatz]

145. Yep, the guy had an obvious death wish.

I guess it's a fitting death, in a way. And quick. Probably a lot better than getting eaten by a crocodile.

[ForrestGump]

147. No he didn't

You might like to read above, about the 'life wish.'

He wasn't afraid to live...if that looks like a death wish to you, I think you might need to get your eyes checked.

I worked with dangerous animals, too, under dangerous conditions...I guess that means I have a death wish, too.

Maybe that's why I'm, for now, making a living by impersonating a dead person...

[smoogatz]

161. Sorry--the guy handled poisonous snakes and other dangerous animals

in a decidedly unsafe way in order to hype his own personal macho "I ain't a-skeered" legend. He was a father of young children who took irresponsible risks with his own life, and his child's. He was a narcissist with a classic Freudian death wish--it's really, really obvious. You I know nothing about, but I'm sure a good therapist could give you the diagnosis you seem to want from me.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

164. I'm pretty damn positive that Forrest isn't looking for any diagnosis from

you.

Also, by your logic any biologist that handles "dangerous" animals or anybody with a dangerous job has a death wish. Everyone is going to die sometime, so you might as well do what you enjoy. Anyway, this particular accident is a pretty freak way of dying that could have happened to any diver in that area. I guess they all have a death wish that a therapist could give a more definitive diagnosis on, as well.

[smoogatz]

178. I'm no herpetologist

but usually when you see actual scientists handling snakes they use hooks and bags and big, thick gloves in the interest of safety. It's still dangerous, but they take reasonable precautions in order to protect themselves. Mick what's-his-face picked them up by their tails, for christ's sake. Do you not see the distinction?

[ForrestGump]

194. You're wrong

Sure, all things being equal, maybe they would use such protective gear. Especially if they had to collect animals for whatever reason.

But I have been in the field with herpetologists -- some of them among the big players in the field, worldwide, and all of them either PhDs or on their way there -- who do exactly what Steve Irwin did. To watch them, they were no different from Steve in their approach. They'd sometimes pick snakes up by the tail, even venomous ones, but would more often just use a stick they found nearby before grabbing the snake in their (often bare) hands. They weren't doing anything like collecting them but were just looking at them and showing them to me and to others like me (I had no desire to follow suit -- that's not my habitat or my animals). And they were enthusiastic, just like Steve Irwin. In my professional life, so far, I'm not sure I've ever met a group of field biologists as effusively enthusiastic over their study animals (and anything like those animals) as herpetologists.......entomologists, maybe.

I've been there and you haven't. Do you not see the distinction?

[smoogatz]

227. Were they hamming it up in front of a TV camera?

That's the difference, IMO. Irwin was a professional show-off, a shameless self-promoter whose gimmick was grabbing poisonous snakes by the tail and taking stupid risks with all kinds of dangerous animals. It's one thing when a PhD herpetologist pins a rattlesnake with a stick to show it to a student; it's another thing entirely when a guy like Irwin waves a coral snake around in front of a TV camera. But hey, you have your opinion of the guy and I have mine. In fact, I'm sorry he's dead and I feel bad for his family. But I'm in no way surprised by what happened to him--he'd been pushing his luck for a long time.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

238. Yes, because he was all about self-promotion...

:eyes:

Irwin did a lot of good in this world, even if he was on TV, whether you like it or not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin#Environmentalism

Irwin was a passionate conservationist and believed in promoting environmentalism by sharing his excitement about the natural world rather than preaching to people. He was concerned with conservation of endangered animals and land clearing leading to loss of habitat. He considered conservation to be the most important part of his work: "I consider myself a wild-life warrior. My mission is to save the world's endangered species."<7> Irwin bought "large tracts of land" in Australia, Vanuatu, Fiji and the United States, which he described as "like national parks" and stressed the importance of people realising that they could each make a difference.<12>

He had urged people to take part in considerate tourism and not support illegal poaching through the purchase of items such as turtle shells, or shark-fin soup:

These Hitlers use the camouflage of science to make money out of animals... So whenever they murder our animals and call it sustainable use, I'll fight it. Since when has killing a wild animal, eating it or wearing it, ever saved a species?

There are people who butt out their cigarettes in gorilla-paw ashtrays, with wastepaper baskets that were once elephant feet, who have ivory ornaments… who wear cheetah fur. Don't buy these things! Then there'll be no market and the animals won't be killed.

We have domesticated livestock raised for consumption and perfectly good fake leather and fur, so why must we kill wild animals to satisfy the macabre taste of some rich person?<13>

He founded the Steve Irwin Conservation Foundation, which was later renamed Wildlife Warriors Worldwide, and became an independent charity. He was described after his death by the CEO of RSPCA Queensland as a "modern-day Noah", and British naturalist David Bellamy lauded his skills as a natural historian and media performer.<14> Irwin discovered a new species of turtle that now bears his name, Elseya irwini—Irwin's Turtle—a type of snapping turtle found on the coast of Queensland.<15>

He also helped to found a number of other projects, such as the International Crocodile Rescue, as well as the Lyn Irwin Memorial Fund, in memory of his mother, with proceeds going to the Iron Bark Station Wildlife Rehabilitation Center.

7. ^ a b King Murdoch, Anna, "He's smart, by crikey", The Age, The Age Company Ltd, 10 June 2003. Retrieved on 2006-09-04.
12. ^ Enough Rope transcript: Steve Irwin, 6 October 2003.
13. ^ Wildlife Warriors: In the Media 2006, copy of an article from Australian Women's Weekly, August 2006.
14. ^ Reuters: Australia stunned by death of "modern-day Noah", 4 Sep 2006.
15. ^ http://www.deh.gov.au/cgi-bin/abrs/fauna/details.pl?pstrVol=REPTILIA;pstrTaxa=3312;pstrChecklistMode=1

[XOKCowboy]

263. Yeah what a ham.

Thanks Haruka. I hadn't seen that quote. My niece watched the Animal Planet because of Steve Irwin. She's quite the buddig little environmentalist now, even at 12.

[ForrestGump]

331. It would have been better if they WERE hamming it up for a TV camera

because then their enthusiasm and what they have to say could have reached a wider audience and infected themn as did Steve's.

And some of these expeditions were not with the herp dudes as teachers to my being a student (I never took a herp course but did visit field sites and get shown around by senior scientists) but with two peers -- me and my fellow grad students -- going out on an equal footing in all but the fact that I was largely clueless about snakes. They were like American Steve Irwins in their enthusians and willingness to root through decaying logs and the like for slimy, writhing beasties. If I'd been able to take them with me to my field sites overseas, I would've returned the favor...as it was, we instead engaged in marathon anecdote sessions in our office spaces. If Steve Irwin was a professional show-off it was for the best cause imaginable, because he KNEW that people needed to have their attention engaged before they would listen and learn. And it worked.

Where it mattered, in the field behavior and in what they were trying to do, these scientists with advanced degrees and Steve Irwin were after the same thing. Just because they had PhDs doesn't mean they were more knowledgable than Steve or somehow more legitimized in the way they handled animals. As a professional field ecologist with three damned graduate degrees in the field, who spent much of his adult life in school and diseertation research, I would not only have been proud to work alongside Steve Irwin but would have considered him every bit as much a legitimate biologist as me and, further, in the habitats and with the species he knew so well, I'd easily consider him my senior. He paid his dues, PhD or not, long ago. He is another from whom I could have earned, just as he could have learned from me, and we'd have bonded because of our similarities, not been at odds because of anything as trivial as academic background.

And I would submit to you that Steve Irwin waving a snake around in front of a TV camera would do -- and has done -- more direct good than has legions of PhD herpetologists pinning snakes down to show (often disinterested) university students.

[ForrestGump]

191. You're pretty damn right about that

:hug:

And about the rest of it, too...

[LostinVA]

177. That's not the same thing as a death wish

I know people who work with poisonous frogs for a living... so what? I've known cops -- same thing. Zoo keepers. And constriction workers.

FG and another poster are right: there's a huge difference between a "Freudian death wish (give me a break) and having a huge passion for your work... having your passion be your life. He did this for almost 40 years, long before the cameras were rolling.

It is sad to me that you've apparently never felt such a passion for anything in your life that you could understand this.

[smoogatz]

182. Whatever my passions are--and they're no different in their intensity

from yours or anyone else's, thank you very much Mr. Doesn't Know A Goddamn Thing About Me, they take a backseat to my responsiblity to my wife and kid, to, you know, be around for them, and not get myself killed doing stupid, juvenile shit in front of a TV camera. But hey, that's just me.

[pitohui]

325. passions that backseat to responsiblity aren't passions

people who are passionate must follow their passion, responsibility or not

that is why posters are thinking you have not experienced passion, because when you do, you will find that it's all encompassing

you must follow your dream and your wife, kids etc. love you all the more for it

a bitter man who abandons his dream and resents his family as a result does far more harm to the world than the man who exuberantly follows his dream


yes, we have a responsibility to our family -- but we also have a responsibility to ourselves and to our ideals

irwin did the right thing to pursue his dream and he captured the imagination of many children also sparking many other dreamers

[smoogatz]

328. Bullshit.

How old are you--fifteen? Grow up, fer chrissakes.

[WinkyDink]

172. Odd. I feel that way about airplane travellers. A lot more of them

die in planes than people die by croc or ray.

Thrn there's surfers and sharks, skiers and avalanches, and don't get me started on people who eat and CHOKE.

[LostinVA]

179. Or walk and TRIP

[smoogatz]

183. I'd be perfectly happy if I never got on an airplane again.

Surfing kind of looks like fun, in the abstract--but one does worry about what's down there in the water, trying to decide if you'd taste good or not. Skiing? No thanks--too cold. As far as eating goes, well, I'll take my chances. Hey, but how about picking up deadly snakes by their tails? Now THAT's a good time.

[XOKCowboy]

265. A question for smoot

Just what is your experience with animals? Besides dogs, house cats, parakeets and goldfish?

Just curious.

[smoogatz]

322. Properly grilled, they're often very tasty.

Next question?

[XOKCowboy]

345. I figured as much...

So the only thing you do with animals is eat them. Congratulations. You're like about 90% of Americans who think meat is born cut up into neat little pieces wrapped in cellophane. Well guess what. Someone has to deal with these animals and it's often not pretty but you do it because it's what you're born to do. Steve Irwin was born on a reptile refuge. That's a place that rescues very mean animals and tries to keep them alive. Reptiles don't respond like your house cat does. What's showboating to you is education to the world.

It's a shame you can't realize that.

[citizen snips]

220. your chances of dying in a plane crash is low

but if I tired wrestling a crocodile my chances of dying would be 100%.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

222. Well, sure if you got tired out doing it, your chances go down but...

obviously your chances of dying while trying to wrestle a crocodile aren't 100% as Steve Irwin wrestled many and lived. Have you ever watched "Miami: Animal Cops," because there's a guy on there who works as an alligator trapper? He's wrestled plenty of gators and he's still alive.

[citizen snips]

224. I was talking about myself

but sure if your a trained professional I am sure your chances of being killed is significantly lower.

[elehhhhna]

242. Uh, fyi--he wasn't killed by a croc.

[citizen snips]

250. whatever

Same differece he was still killed by a dangerous animal.

[elehhhhna]

260. Mattman, stingrays are hardly Dangerous Animals. Turn off CNN

and google up some real info. Cable news is making like rays are underwater John Mark Karrs and/or terrorists. Fact is, the majority of s-ray injuries are big hickeys, caused by their intense suckpower. They vaccuum food up through what's known as "plates" -- they have no teeth. If you get a hard enough suck, and the plates start grinding, they can tear off a piece of your forearm or leg pretty easily. I've seen the aftermath of such an injury and it ain't pretty.

[citizen snips]

261. not dangerous?

they killed a man so they can be dangerous sometimes.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

272. They are very rare...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20060904-1057-crocodilehunter-stingrays.html

Simon Pierce of Queensland University's School of Biological Sciences said there were no accurate records of stingray deaths, but estimated there had been about 30 worldwide in recent years.

Considering how many people snorkel and scuba dive around these things, it's not that big of a risk.

[elehhhhna]

286. Mattman, unwashed lettuce has killed men too, but it's hardly considered

dangerous. If I have a salad and die from food poisoning, will yu say I asked for it?

Cold.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

288. And food poisoning has definitely killed more than 30 people in the

last decade or so.

[elehhhhna]

304. Did those people eat? SEE! They asked for it !

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

305. OMG! I must have a death wish.

I eat every day and get this...I've snorkeled with sharks and I *gasp* ate before I did it.

[LostinVA]

309. Classic Freudian death wish -- I'm not surprised

All you do is harass and terrorize straight girls... errr... animals.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

311. Check your PM.

We were sharing psychic brainwaves.

[LostinVA]

315. Read and answered

It's our chakras telling us what to do...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

319. My chakras are vibrating.

Sorry, but I just could not resist that one.

[LostinVA]

320. I love it when they do that...

[elehhhhna]

313. Some of these assinine, uninformed posts are giving me a

death wish right now.

[LostinVA]

353. I know -- they death wished me off to bed last night

[elehhhhna]

357. LOL

[citizen snips]

321. NO

I don't wish death on anyone.

[elehhhhna]

332. Oh. You just decide if it was justified. Got it.

[citizen snips]

339. What?

stop putting words in my mouth.

[elehhhhna]

356. If I deign to put anything in your mouth,

it won't be words, bub.

[LostinVA]

364. SEX THREAD

[elehhhhna]

367. LMAO. Hardly!

OOPS. Is Hardly a naughty word?

[LostinVA]

371. Hahahhaha! Yes, it is!!!!

[elehhhhna]

372. $hit! ...

fyi, $hit is only a sex word if you're RepubliPerv.

[LostinVA]

373. hehehe

[citizen snips]

374. well then stop trying to speak for me.

[elehhhhna]

387. You're repeating yourself again again.

[LostinVA]

292. No, they aren't a dangerous animal

You can trip over your cat and fall and break your neck... it's the same time of freak accident. Rays aren't aggressive animals.

[ForrestGump]

333. By that logic

almost everything on this planet is dangerous.

I wonder if this supports my thesis that Americans, on average, are more afraid of everything than is anyone else on this planet.

No stingray ever shot a man in Reno just to watch him die...

[LostinVA]

354. Some Americans aren't, but I'd say.... yes

I've been diving because I'm cvlastiphobic... but I love snorkeling. I've had coworkers say, "OMG! YOu were in the ocean?! With sharks and stuff!?" I go trail running on very rough trails several times a week, again I hear, "Do you see snakes? Poisonous ones?! You do?! And wild animals? Aren't you scared?!"

People are bonkers. Thank the gods my parents didn't raise me like a hothouse flower... (although I really, really am afraid of spiders...)

[elehhhhna]

368. LOL. Once you've been int he ocean w/ a mask on, you won't want to

go in without one! People have no idea how many critters are down there.

Snorkeling is my passion. Diving? Too much tech. for me.

[elehhhhna]

258. Yep. Obvious deathwish. Just like Seigfried&Roy,

:sarcasm:

[smoogatz]

329. Funny you should make that comparison.

It hadn't occurred to me, but now that you mention it... But seriously, S&R were apparently incredibly naive/delusional about the animals they were working with, and the degree of reciprocal trust and affection they shared with them. I don't think Irwin was laboring under any such illusion. He did, however, make a name for himself by repeatedly taking unnecessary risks--which is pretty irresponsible when you've got a wife and two small kids, IMO. But hey, he entertained us, so it's all good. And apprently they named a turtle after him.

[citizen snips]

340. don't forget grizzly man.

the guy who lived with bears. need I say more?

[ForrestGump]

342. No, you needn't say more

Please.

[citizen snips]

343. same back

[elehhhhna]

369. On Grizzlyidiot we can agree.

By the end of Hertzog's Doc film (ashamed to admit this but it's true)I was HOPING the bears would eat that spacecase.

[citizen snips]

375. at least we agree on something.

[citizen snips]

376. delete

[ForrestGump]

146. We all do

I ride a motorcycle, and I feel Death checking me out every time I go out there with apparently-blind people piloting increasingly large four wheeled conveyances about. Sure, my risk might be higher than someone who never leaves their room, but if an earthquake hits and a chimney falls on their head then they're still more dead than I am. Risks cna be managed by preparation, skill, and mental alertness, as well as awareness of your limitations and respect for the hazards.

And septugenarian herpetologists and shark researchers who continue to work with potentially-lethal predators are running a higher statistical risk, I'll grant you (not so much from the animals as from the diving or bush-bashing necessary to see the animals), but they somehow survived mor eyears of doing that than I've yet lived in my entire life. And it's kept them young. Meanwhile, their fellow cohort members (and younger) in nursing homes are dying from the results of broken hips and all sorts of age-related ailments.

Every morning could be our last. People like Steve Irwin should, in some way, be a reminder that we owe it to ourselves to -- if only in some small way, concerning attitude if not outward action -- live as if it was our last day.

I plan on living a very long time, but I plan on living (not being foolhardy, or irresponsible...I'm not talking about going hog wild here) and not just putting myself in a sterile box for protection. What would be the point of that?

[LostinVA]

150. Yup, so I guess non of us should do stuff we find fun, lest it be a

"death wish." I guess every time I go trail running, snorkeling, ride Tower of Terror at Disney World, etc. I have a death wish... instead of doing something I enjoy. Hmmm...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

154. Oh course you do just admit it...

I'm totally looking to die everytime I go snorkeling, swell jumping in one of my family's boats (usually the little Boston Whaler, because it jumps the best), climb rock walls or sign my whole life away so I can go fight in karate.

[LostinVA]

159. And do kata with a rattail-tanged katana...

I suspect corrupting nuns may be a death wish, too....

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

163. Well, I've always been more scared of nuns than people that could kick

my ass in karate. In karate, there's the element of fighting back; with nuns, well I've been sprung on and whacked with a ruler with their stealth Vaticanjitsu skills.

[LostinVA]

171. Vacticanjitsu??? GIGGLE

[ForrestGump]

195. It's okay if it's a FREUDIAN death wish, though, because

Freud's already dead, so you wouldn't be wishing ill upon him.

"Man, I wish that Sigmund Frood dude would just, like, totally die" <----- This is now acceptable

[citizen snips]

There is a difference between

rideing the tower of terror and wrestling a crocodile.

[LostinVA]

229. Not if you're trained -- he was trained

He had been doing it since he was a kid. Zoo keepers do stuff like this all the time. Biologists do, too. None of them have a death wish at all -- they are doing what they love. A croc didn't kill him... a cobra didn't kill him... a spider didn't kill him.... a box jelly didn't kill him... a freak stingray accident killed him, when he wasn't doing anything weird or dangerous. I've been very close to stingrays myself... I have an uncle who stepped on one and was barbed. It happens.

And, I would say that there's more risk to my health on TOT than there was for Steve-O to "wrestle" a croc... which isn't even what he was doing. He didn't wrestle crocs... he was trapping them, rescuing, moving them, etc.

[citizen snips]

252. Was he trained on dealing with Stingrays?

[LostinVA]

293. He wasn't dealing with stingrays, he was swimming

Keep on piling up the strawman -- they make a great bonfire.

There are two terrific aquariums in NC -- take a drive to Manteo and check out the rays -- they have a great tank. Talk to some biologists there. Go snorkeling in Florida. LEARN about these animals instead of using -- slandering them -- them to throw mud at Steve Irwin. It's getting crazy now -- because you are WRONG.

[elehhhhna]

298. THANK YOU. You hit the nail in the head.

Facts are our friends.

[LostinVA]

301. Thank you

Opinions are our own, but facts are everyone's.

[ForrestGump]

335. Yes, you did

But I think this character was just having too much jollytime by being obstinately thick-headed and passive-aggressive argumentative. Learning would be a refreshing change, if it were possible to learn when you already have your mind made up.

[citizen snips]

308. yes he was

and I have been to the aquariums on the NC coast. I will make a mental note next time I visit the aquarium to ask questions.
Here are some good questions
What happens if someone provokes the stingrays?
Can they sting you if you are swimming around their stinger?

And I am not slandering him I am being optimistic.

[elehhhhna]

358. Answers: Provaocation will get you a sting. Yes, they can & will

sting you if you are in range and they're frightened. The stinger is just like a bees, in that it's not used for hunting & killing prey, but for protection, and that it pops off the critter and stays in the victim until it's removed.

btw, google is your friend. Use it!

[citizen snips]

378. He got stung but it did not kill him

he took the barb out and that is what killed him
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/05/irwin.death/index.html

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

381. Pulling the barb out is not what killed him. The poison resulting in

cardiac arrest is what killed him.

From the article you linked to:

He told Australia's Network 10 that Irwin managed to pull the barb out of his chest but said it was too late, as the poison had already entered his body.

Irwin then went into cardiac arrest, news reports said.

[citizen snips]

383. I guess we will have to wait for the autopsy

because pulling something that is stuck in your heart can kill you.

[elehhhhna]

294. Possibly. Divemasters are trained in dealing / rays. Here are the

Cliffs Notes:

Dont' step on them. Shuffle your feet when walking in the shallows so you don't step on them.

Do not put your fingers in their mouths (seriously).

Don't pull, grab, or touch their tails.

If you're stung: the stinger will break off the ray & hurt like hell, but the venom won't normally cause damage--just discomfort. Prevent post-sting discomfort (somewhat) by pouring the hottest fluid you can stand on the affected area ASAP. Have a medical professional remove the barb & clean the wound, since deep puncture wounds get infected easily. THE END.

You're welcome.

[XOKCowboy]

257. Thank you. A voice of reason.

Too many people who's only experience with animals is their housecat or dog are expounding on things they know nothing about. He was an acclaimed environmentalist and this trashing of him here is somewhat sad.

[LostinVA]

295. I know, it's bizarre

I mean, I really don't understand this. The latest vogue of calling rays "dangerous" is my favorite. No, they aren't. They are fascinating critters... related to sharks, btw.

[citizen snips]

310. ?

So what if I have a different opinion about the situation that does not make me a steve Irwin hater.

[elehhhhna]

362. Opinions are not, nor do they trump, FACTS.

[citizen snips]

377. here is something new to consider

Steve Irwin pulled the barb out of his chest and that is what killed so it was not a freak accident.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/05/irwin.death/index.html

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

382. Read it again for comprehension.

From your linked article:

He told Australia's Network 10 that Irwin managed to pull the barb out of his chest but said it was too late, as the poison had already entered his body.

Irwin then went into cardiac arrest, news reports said.

It states clearly that he died from the poison, resulting in cardiac arrest, not due to pulling out the barb, which he did "too late."

[elehhhhna]

385. JEEZ! You can't admit that pulling barbs out of ones chest is

a dangerous hobby? What the heck is wrong with you?

I reluctantly gave up pulling barbs out of my chest when my first child was born. Guess you wouldn't understand responsible parenting though.

[ForrestGump]

334. I have a friend who was hit (leg) by a stingray, a colleague attacked by a

saltwater crocodile (not all that far from where Steve Irwin died), a few colleagues who've been bitten by sharks of various sizes, a dive buddy who was envenomated by a (true) stonefish (pure hell), and so on. I've escaped largely unscathed, most of my ouchies coming from things like fire coral and just the prevalence of sharp, thorny, jagged things in the tropics (including a memorable assault by a massive rhinoceros beetle on my big toe), though I have been bitten by a kangaroo, stung by what was likely a Portugese man o' war, and rapidly charged by a few fishes (the most threatening probably being a big Titan triggerfish...capable of a basty bite but hardly a top predator).

Stuff happens. But none of the biologists (or professional underwater photographers and filmmakers) close to me, or even separated by one degree, have yet died from working with potentially-dangerous animals. Battered, bruised, sliced, diced...yes; but not dead. One died in a diving accident. But not because of an animal.

[elehhhhna]

386. Oh yeah? Well I have a friend who had his nipple nipped by a fish while

swimming in a small lake in Michigan! SO THERE! More proof You guys are crazy.:P

[Subdivisions]

122. Kick for more audio/video links: (adding more as I find them)

Audio report with slideshow and video:

http://graphics.news.com.au/multimedia/mediaplayer/060904_steveIrwin/

NineMSN Video:

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?f=39&g=3f6ef310-2559-4e7e-b4a6-fb10480f8f19&p=aunews_aunationalninenews&t=s29&mediaid=25252

About Stingrays:

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?f=39&g=69a83c0d-c734-4e3e-b4a6-7f94fcd749c4&p=aunews_aunationalninenews&t=s29&mediaid=25249

Video tribute on Google Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7534543947104800888&q=Steve+Irwin

From Yahoo! 7 News:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/scp_v3/viewer/index.php?pid=16471&rn=248153&cl=804524&ch=248154

Yahoo! 7 Cairns Message Board Stever Irwin thread:

http://au.messages.yahoo.com/news/top-stories/358619?p=1

Podcast from ABC PM A look back at Steve Irwin's life:

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200609/r104767_322282.mp3

Podcast from ABC PM Death of the Crocodile Hunter:

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200609/r104766_322279.mp3

Crocodile Hunter, Steve Irwin, has died (Windows Media Player):

Broadband: http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200609/r104784_322307.asx
Dialup: http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200609/r104784_322309.asx

Background:

Broadband: http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200609/r104785_322315.asx
Dialup: http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200609/r104785_322316.asx

John Stainton's emotional press conference:

http://mp3.news.com.au/bcm/stainton.wmv

[Subdivisions]

157. Kick to add video/audio links

Steve Irwin's death shocks nation:

http://video.news.com.au/videoplayer?channel=National+News&clipid=1094_48739&bitrate=56&format=wmp

From New Zealand:

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/825886
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/825909

Australia's ABC News Video on Demand:

http://www.abc.net.au/vod/news/



More audio/video being added as I find it.

[LostinVA]

125. The SO is making me upset

She said that maybe Steve is now with Mary, Bindi, Harriett, Sue, and all the other animals he loved... and his Mum....

[OzarkDem]

133. He was passionate about conservation

and he used his personality, skills, knowledge and enthusiasm to educate people about the need to respect animals and protect their habitats. He did it at a time when conservationism and environmentalism had become more important than ever, but at the same time was being ridiculed as junk science.

RIP Steve, you made a great contribution. You will be missed. Prayers to him, his family and friends.

[Eurobabe]

138. Even though he was kind of annoying and hyper this is a horrible

way to die, and the loss of a person who really cared about the environment, the oceans and wildlife. RIP Steve.

[undeterred]

158. annoying and hyper BUT

he got me to pay attention... and I'm sure he made children interested. To be honest reptiles are the animals I have least interest in. His "over the top" enthusiasm actually made me interested. (Primates are very interesting because they are so much like us, but crocodiles and snakes are a mystery.) Understanding something takes the fear away and puts it in proper perspective.

I have no desire to ever handle animals the way he did, but I can say his genuine love for them and insatiable curiosity gave me a new perspective on these animals.

[WinkyDink]

167. A rejoinder to those who think Steve was exploitative:

"Irwin was also seen as a vocal critic of wildlife hunts in Australia. The federal government recently dropped plans to allow crocodile safaris for wealthy tourists in the Northern Territory following his vehement objections."

http://accesshollywood.com/news/ah1502.shtml

One man, THIS man, changed his country for the better.

[buddhamama]

168. thank you

[LostinVA]

181. Oh gosh, what a classic narcissistic, Freudian death wish maneuver

Putting money and fame ahead of animals!!!

Winky, you know I'm being sarcastic, right?

[sweetheart]

169. passionate indeed

I won't cry for a man who's lived so fully and passionately, as who am i
but a disembodied critique.

It is unfortunate to learn he was part of a bush meetup,

but i learned from him to pull an animal off the road if its been injured,
that the predators that will eat the carcass are not themselves also killed,
his wisdom with animals transmitted like magnitism and i can only regret
the passing of a man who inspired me with his joy for life.

Struck in the heart doing what he loved, would that we all live so fully.

[redherring]

176. This was bound to happen

In his line of work, there is always the danger of death. So, I don't think this is that surprising.

[undeterred]

180. Surprising that it was a relatively harmless animal

rather than the many more dangerous animals he handled. I'm surprised he never took a major bite from a croc.

[LostinVA]

185. Watch how he handled the crocs

Especially on "Croc Diaries" -- the behind-the-scenes look at the zoo. The dude understood crocs.

[XOKCowboy]

244. He grew up around them...

From CNN

"His message is really about conservation: He really wants to leave the world a better place for everybody," Animal Planet's Maureen Smith told CNN.com in April.

"It's unbelievable, really," Jack Hanna, the host of "Jack Hanna's Animal Adventure" and director emeritus of the Columbus (Ohio) Zoo, told CNN. "You think about Steve Irwin and you think of people who are invincible."

Hanna, a friend of Irwin's, noted that Irwin's persona of the Crocodile Hunter was no act. Irwin grew up around crocodiles, snakes and other animals at his parents' Queensland Reptile and Fauna Park and had been handling such creatures since he was a child.

"Steve really knew what he was doing. He was one of the finest reptile people in the world. He knew more about reptiles than anybody did. He was raised that way," said Hanna.

[Bridget Burke]

370. There's danger of death in many lines of work....

Firefighters, police, soldiers, construction workers, etc. I've also known a couple of corporate types who died in wrecks while commuting.

Death is inevitable for all of us. How we live our lives is more important.

[Endangered Specie]

199. You can't escape Darwin...

[KFC]

206. That doesn't look like a stingray to me

[elehhhhna]

302. but it DOES look like Darwin.

lol

[LostinVA]

214. What does Darwin have to do with Irwin's freak death by a stingray?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

218. Duh. Play with crocodiles. Get killed by a stingray.

Do I need to point out the connection any clearer? Sheesh...

[LostinVA]

223. Sorry, Haruka... I'm just not on point today, I guess

I understand now.

[elehhhhna]

299. LMAO

[Endangered Specie]

291. you never heard of darwin awards?

people who constantly do extremely stupid and dangerous things meet their demise.

You just don't get barbed in the heart by a stringray without really pissing it off.

[LostinVA]

297. Yes, I have -- I was being sarcastic

Your posts shows you know zero about stingrays -- I've been around them, I've swum with them, I have a Marine Biologist in the family, and ForrestGump is also one -- you're wrong.

I didn't know you get a Darwin Award for merely swimming above a ray that's settled. Oh... didn't know that? THEN EDUCATE YOURSELF.

I am TIRED of the intellectual masturbation on this thread... do something more constructive than getting off on the nonsense being posted here. Pshaw.

[ForrestGump]

336. Amen to that, sister

[LittleClarkie]

366. Yes, but they generally meet their demise actually doing a stupid thing

Past incidences have nothing to do with what Irwin was doing when he died, which was not something stupid, but something that could have happened to any snorkeler.

[rman]

203. I suppose he died doing what he loved most

He will be remembered.

[Renew Deal]

212. That's terrible

But somehow not unexpected. He was dealing with animals that were dangerous to people. He did a lot to teach people about animals and that's admirable. :salute:

[savemefromdumbya]

215. we loved his programs on TV

I have to break the news to everyone here!

[begin_within]

219. Steve with tiger cub:

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/09/04/irwin2_wideweb__470x352,0.jpg

[LSK]

221. I watched his show many many times over the years

His show did more for wildlife conservation than probably anything else in recent history.

To all those who say they hate him, did you EVER watch his show???

[LostinVA]

230. His SHOWS

LOVED Croc Diaries alot, even more than Croc Hunter. And, I agree -- I don't think they actually knew about what Steve and Terri Irwin have done...

[FARAFIELD]

231. VERY FUNNY!!

Although I know he will be missed and his family will surely miss him, Im just flabbergasted that people like the Prime Minister of Australia called this "a freakish accident", he does dangerous things and often puts his life in danger and frankly got what Ive expected for a while. My wife is a large animal VET (primarily dairy herds) and once got her arm broke by a cow, quite expected, so Steve Irwin, holds his one month old in a croc pen and says it was "fine" what a nerd. Im just glad he went before he took his son out on a burrow expedition of Wombats or something similar. I guess he died doing what he loves doing, I love sleeping, get it?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

240. I hate to burst your bubble, but it does seem to be a "freakish accident"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin

"He came over the top of a stingray that was buried in the sand, and the barb came up and hit him in the chest," Stainton said. Wildlife documentary maker Ben Cropp, citing a colleague who saw footage of the attack, told Time.com that Irwin had accidentally boxed the animal in. "It stopped and twisted and threw up its tail with the spike, and it caught him in the chest," said Ben Cropp. "It's a defensive thing. It's like being stabbed with a dirty dagger." The Bull Ray that stung Irwin was "a one-in-a-million thing," Cropp told Time magazine. "I have swum with many rays, and I have only had one do that to me."<26>In this case, the motion struck Irwin's chest and pierced his heart.<24> This was only the third known fatality in Australian history from a stingray attack, and only 17 worldwide fatalities have taken place since 1996.<27>


24. Gerard, Ian; and Koch, Tony, "Steve Irwin's freak death filmed", The Australian, 2006-09-04. Retrieved on 2006-09-04.
26. "S 'Crocodile Hunter' Steve Irwin dead", CNN, CNN, 2006-09-04. Retrieved on 2006-09-04.
27. "Stingray Deaths Rare and Agonizing", CNN.com. Retrieved on 2006-09-04.

May I also point out that it takes a pretty sick person to find the death of any human funny?

[FARAFIELD]

284. FYI,

if you read the post i didnt say it was a "freakish" accident, i said the prmie minister of australia said that. Like i said he does silly dangeorous things and got what I expected. SInce you brought it up, on 17th fatality in 10 years in the entire WORLD, and a thrill seeker is the 18th, id say my post is spot on he looks for trouble and got it. I make no judgement about the man personally but professionally he is a loon and a poor example to kids.

[OzarkDem]

287. You've made your point

enough already, give it a rest.

[LostinVA]

300. Haruka is right -- it was a freak accident

He was doing nothing but swimming. And, the thing with his son? I grew up around farm kids and crabber kids, and the stuff their parents did with them pales in comparison to Steve-O in a controlled environment.

Don't like Irwin -- I don't freaking care. But quit spreading falsehoods about him.

Professionally, he was a great example to kids -- learn about the man before you get off on your vitriol, 'kay? A serious question: what kind of person posts made up shit on a thread about an animal advocate's unexpected death? Huh?

Dude -- talk to your wife. She's professionally irresponsible, getting her arm broken by livestock. What kind of a thrill seeker is she? Looking for trouble.... if she did small animal practice, this wouldn't happen. She looked for trouble and she got it, huh? I don't make any judgment about her personally, but professionally? She sounds like a loon, and is a poor example to vet school students.

[elehhhhna]

303. Oh. Fu*k. ALL. By your reasoning everyone who swims in Fla,

Tx, AU, MX, the Caribbean etc. ad nauseum is "looking for trouble". Warm water? DANGER! DEATH WISH!

Stingrays are dammed near everywhere.

[RestoreGore]

233. Sad

Steve Irwin was so full of life and dedication for wildlife. It is a true loss that he is dead. And I also agree that some of the responses here are downright heartless. My condolences to his family.

[RestoreGore]

236. According to this, he was over a buried stingray

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/04/australia.irwin/index.html?section=cnn_latest

At least he died doing what he loved most in the world.

[elehhhhna]

255. Welcome to DU.

Not attacking you here, just observing that "He died doing what he loved" is IMO a bizarre sentiment--

Why don't we say that about junkies when they OD...or batterers killed by their spouses in self defense?

It's always struck me as w.e.i.r.d.

[nolabels]

275. Because other people were interested and paying him for having fun

They don't pay junkies or violent criminals because people as whole don't like the kind of things they produce. The brave ones like Steve too often live a short life so embracing even his untimely death with admiration is what many do.

I believe it was just a little too much hubris on his part and forgetting ones own flesh is how that kind thing happens. He was great entertainment but dying by the sword he lived by is the most that ever could have happened to him. That to me, makes the whole thing ironic.

Having better respect (or fear if you prefer) of things that are dangerous is why we often survive, and not in spite of it. Learning when to stand up and when not to is often one of the most important things a human has to learn. This for them standing up and the rest of race in general

[elehhhhna]

290. What's most ironic to me is the freakish nature of death by stingray...

which is dammned near unheard of and close to impossible...unless the barb hits ones heart. People swim over rays in Fla & Tx every day. They get stung occasionally, just not in the heart.

[RestoreGore]

323. Drug addicts don't always love what they do...

Many can't get out once they get hooked. Doesn't mean they love it. I don't think an addiction can be compared to this. And what I meant was that he was involved in doing the one thing he loved most in this world and while tragic, will hopefully bring his soul peace. I don't find that bizarre at all.

[ForrestGump]

337. That's EXACTLY what I figured happened

Not that I'm proud of my psychic abilities...with an injury to the chest like that the immediate assumption any halfway-experienced diver would make is that he settled on (or something like that) a buried ray. Now I'd like to see all the motherfuckers who have accused him of being some kind of death-wish-bearing irresponsible maniac shove the truth up their asses alongside their heads. This kind of thing could have happened to any diver or snorkeler.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

338. Oh don't worry, facts mean nothing these days.

Over in WillPitt's thread people are shoving this fact so far up their ass, they're spitting out lies.

[LostinVA]

355. Oh Forrest, you must be joking!

[mtnsnake]

312. Truly a sad day. Steve brought as much awareness to the realm of animals

as anyone, and he did it in a very entertaining way. Nobody did it better than he did.

I miss him already.

How anyone can get on this thread and knock this wonderful man on the day he died is beyond belief.

[RestoreGore]

324. Legacy guestbook set up for Mr. Irwin

http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20060904/bs_prweb/prweb432875

[farmboxer]

346. Very Sad News For Our Mother Earth..........

another protector of our planet and it's creatures gone. However, he brought the conservation issue to many people's attention. He knew what the frogs were warning us about.

I will miss him very much.

[Ganja Ninja]

352. I'm only somewhat surprised.

The one thing that set Steve Irwin apart from other nature show hosts was the way he constantly seemed to be in danger by the animals he was handling. Where most animal handlers would handle the poisonous snake by the back of the head Steve would grab it by the tail and then dodge as it lunged at him. He sacrificed safety for thrills and thats what made his act so popular.

I guess what's most surprising is the suddeness and way he died. Sad to see him go but again not that surprising given the way he went about his business.