Are bush & the neo cons as evil as we think? Or even more so?

[Philosoraptor]

Over the years I've read a lot of strange things about the bush's, weird rumors, and even weirder facts. Starting with prescott the Nazi.

But I'm talking about weird, weird things I've picked up, unbelievable things.

And when I say unbelievable, when I first revealed to my parents, lifelong Democrats, the facts about prescott bush and Hitler, they didn't believe me, their own bouncing baby boy.

But republicans find these weird rumors and facts also unbelievable, and will instantly call you a liar and demand you prove it or shut up or take it back.

I've heard weird rumors about george herbert walker bush, number 41, that stretch credulity. He wasn't really a war hero like he was made out to be, but jumped out of a plane with no regard for his buddy the pilot. Or that he was somehow involved in the JFK murder.

Or that he got reagan and himself elected by dealing with the Iranians, selling them weapons of mass destruction, giving them millions in loans, arranging for the hostages to be held much, much longer to make Carter look bad, then the second reagan took office the hostages were released, making Carter look real, real bad. In other words, a bloodless coup de tat.

Rumors about his involvement in the failed assassination of reagan, and the bush family's closeness with the John Hinkley family, as in John Hinkley's brother had dinner with a bush son the night before the shooting. (not sure which son)

Then many suspected that reagan was senile and a shadow government was really running things and guess who THEY were? The neo cons, cheney, rummy, daddy, the whole reagan cabinet, convicted criminals and all.

Weird, weird skull and bones rumors, Bohemian Grove rumors, rumors about pedophilia, sex slaves, murders for hire, intrigue, all associated with the otherwise charming daddy bush.

Then the rumors about our current 'leader', cocaine addiction, alcoholism to the extreme, a life marked by failures and bailouts from daddy, an idiot used to getting his way and getting his ass saved gets appointed to the top office in the land.

How evil are the bush's and the neo cons? Are they less evil than we imagine, or much more? What are they up to that we are not aware of behind the scenes? How long have they been doing this, and how long will they continue to suck the life out of us and screw up our world?

[ERF]

1. Nice paranoid

rant. Well done. A fun read.

[magellan]

2. Paranoid?

Prove it.

[emanymton]

3. Just Because You Are Paranoid, It Doesn't Mean They Aren't ...

out to get you.

[ERF]

4. I presume you are kidding based on the article, but pray tell

how does someone "prove" that another person is paranoid? I suppose onecould be diagnosed with Paranoid Personality Disorder, which would be proof of a sort.

[magellan]

8. You made the assertion that the OP was paranoid

Why do you say that? I ask in hopes of receiving insight into your opinion.

[ERF]

12. Seems to me thtat to begin to believe that things suggested in

the OP were true could certainly be construed as paranoid. Not a big leap here. Of course if you want to beleive them all, be my guest.

[magellan]

13. Which don't you believe?

[ERF]

22. The only plausible of these silly conspiracy theories is

the one on Iran.

Poppy might not have been a hero in WWII either, but of course no one is anymore.

The rest of the stuff is as whacko as what the far right says about the Clintons.

[magellan]

32. So the reason you're slinging around the words 'paranoid' and 'whacko'

...is based on nothing more than your belief that the points in the OP are 'silly conspiracy theories'.

Just as I thought.

[ERF]

What would you call them if not conspiracy theories?

[Philosoraptor]

36. I SAID they were weird rumors, although some are absolutely true.

Some ARE rumors and theories. When two or more people do a thing, it is a conspiracy. A theory is just that, a theory. and sometimes the two exist together, as when one theorizes about a thing that two or more people do.

[ERF]

34. What would you call them if not conspiracy theories?

[magellan]

35. Some of them are stories that warrant proper investigation

Others are just nuggets of information that haven't been disproved and may bear further scrutiny.

The possibility that Bush** is an alcoholic who continues to drink isn't a 'conspiracy theory' to anyone that truly cares about the mental state of the man in charge of this country.

[Wiley50]

37. Take a Gander at Octafish's Journal

if you want names, dates and documents.

He has many of them.

Unless you don't care to be disillusioned.

[treestar]

41. After the way they treated Kerry's record

Poppy gets not more credit with me no matter what he did.

If they expect "war hero" status for any of their idiots, the will wait a long time. After their treatment of Kerry's service, they don't deserve it except in their double-standard addled empty heads.

[Philosoraptor]

18. that's the thing about the bush's, it's hard to prove their evil deeds

[leftofthedial]

5. things are far worse than any of us suspect

FAR worse.

[thepurpose]

6. I say more so, because their kinds sees government as way to help

themselves and the cost of everyone else.

[Kutjara]

7. If history is any guide, we'll ultimately discover...

...that the neocon cabal are both less and more evil than we currently believe. They will be less evil in the 'raping babies' and 'baying at the full moon' sense, but far more evil in the long term, calculating, planned usurpation of American democracy sense. The current crop of bastards are just the latest heirs in an unbroken lineage of entitlement and corruption that can probably be traced back to the dawn of civilization.

[barbtries]

9. my opinion:

true evil and a true threat to our democracy. tonight was the first time i learned about the jfk killing link. i gotta believe it...junior, that's harder, but hell, after katrina, after this travesty of a war, i am convinced. evil.

and way, way too powerful.

[CJCRANE]

10. What's that quote from Poppy...

"if the people knew what the government was really doing..."

I think the very, very rich are different to me and you, they can get away with virtually anything.

Just look at the two billionaire boys - Bush & Bin Laden - who are pretty much untouchable due to their family wealth and connections.

Also, if you think about, what is the point in accumulating so much power if not for the purpose of doing unthinkable things? A normal person would be happy with a few million in the bank and a comfortable lifestyle.

[Zorra]

11. How evil is the devil? n/t

[NewJeffCT]

14. I think Reagan's senility in the 80s was an act

Didn't the release of his notes from his days as president show him to be much more involved than previously thought? Meaning, he should have been impeached by Lawrence Walsh.

[ixion]

15. you call these things 'rumor' yet most are well documented facts

that just never seem to make it to the table when the subject comes up.

I told my parents about Prescott Bush, too, and they didn't believe me, either. I could show them the documentation, and they probably still wouldn't believe it, simply because they don't want to.

They don't want to.

People don't want to believe that Reagan pulled a coup (with Poppy's help) by cutting a deal with Iran. I remember this quite well. It didn't take a 'pundit' to tell me something fishy had occured. I was just a kid back then, in high school, but I could see this very clearly.

It's also very well documented that chimpenfurher was something of a coke-hound, and a drunk. A nasty drunk.

While I'm sure that part of what you mention is the result of the rumor chain, much of it is not rumor, but fact.

Just my two cents.

Paranoia is simply a heightened sense of awareness ;-)

[cleveramerican]

16. Why smart people believe stupid things.

great book check it out.I wish I could remember the authors name and publisher.

It discuss' humans penchant for believing what THEY WANT to believe, regardless of the facts.

[Philosoraptor]

19. like believing in God sort of

[acmejack]

20. Gene F. Ostrom

Google never forgets, cleveramerican...

[Philosoraptor]

17. folks believe the strangest things, yet refuse to believe the truth

[ixion]

25. pretty amazing, huh?

t'was ever thus. :-(

[dbt]

21. Oh, they are WAY more evil than you think.

Fortunately for them, there will always be those who, for instance, will call you PARANOID for thinking such thoughts and (gasp!) daring to voice them. You ain't got to look too far up this thread to see what I'm talking about.

:evilgrin:
dbt
Remember New Orleans

[cleveramerican]

24. in every chess game somebody's got to be black

This is a saying of mine and I think its relevant here. I'm as disgusted with W&Co. as anybody, But I don't think they are either evil or insincere. They are just wrong in a very ordinary way. The way I'm wrong from time to time and usually If I had just listened more it could have been avoided.


The points you bring up are compelling and certainly something to think about.Just because THEY see it differently doesn't make them evil it just makes them wrong.



I don't look at republicans as dangerous strangers, I see them as misinformed family members(who doesn't have some of those?)who need to be convinced. When each party stops respecting the others views, the nation suffers in a profound way. Those who gleefully engage in it have lost faith in this country and its people.


I am aware that this probably not the forum to express this line of reasoning, But I can't resist

[marions ghost]

40. comforting thought, but absurd

"they are wrong in a very ordinary way." (oh brother...'misinformed?!...oh sure) Like the guy who sold you the underwater lot in Florida?

We are under NO obligation to "respect" the views of a party that has done so much damage to our nation.
None.

The Republican party better start scrounging up all the assholes it can find, because anyone with a shred of integrity is jumping off that ship of fools.

[C_U_L8R]

23. We are all in denial

over how bad it really is... and paralyzed to do anything about.
It's like having an alcoholic abusive father or mother.
We're wired up to hope for the best... not to deal with the worst.
What's it going to take to wake up a nation?

[WA98296]

26. Believing that 'no one would do such things" is HOW they get away with it.

After all, who would believe it.

[Philosoraptor]

30. Unbelievability

[treestar]

42. Exaclty, just like the way the sexual harrasser will pick a

conventionally unattractive woman. Who is going to believe her?

They know they can get away with it and the basic honesty of common people will make it possible for them to get away with it because no one will believe it.

[jazzjunkysue]

27. www.newamericancentury.org

Please click the letters and read the 1998 letter begging CLinton to invade Iraq. In 1998.

Yes, they're that evil.

[MrPrax]

28. Where's the Bush thread about

his anti-semitic remarks...this stuff is old news.

Book: Bush told reporter Jews are 'all going to hell'

Raw Story

Being a cokehead, booze hound and nazi is fine...but this is more topical coming from the new Rove book, The Architects?

Anyone surprised?

[treestar]

44. If you take Christianity strictly, it is true

The Jews, along with all other non-Christians, are going to hell.

That's the problem with religion. It is the emotional enabler for thinking the culture into which you were merely born is "right" above all others and that others have to convert to your way "for their own good." .

If people could only learn to look at their religion versus someone else's as different ways of expressing the same thing.

[SmokingJacket]

29. Things are consistently worse than I suspect with these people,

and I'm pretty durned paranoid.

However, as paranoid as I am, I *don't* believe in the One Giant Conspiracy thing -- that's there's one world shadow government ruling everything from a secret bunker. I *do* think there are cover-ups upon cover-ups and that we're basically being ruled by people who are involved in various crime syndicates. Murders for hire are the way things are done in crime syndicates.

It's an open secret that drug money is funding certain CIA operations.

Skull and Bones is just a group of privileged people trying to become more powerful -- but they're not as powerful as they think.

Bush is totally an alcoholic and maybe a drug addict -- and since I suspect him of being an alcoholic, he's probably doing blow in the Oval Office bathroom (like I said, it's always worse than I think).

I also think that pedophiles are drawn to Republicanism -- something about the psychological need to control their and others' behavior. And pedophiles HAVE to work in conspiratorial ways in order to get their hands on kiddie porn. Thus it's likely that some groups of Republicans and some pedo rings overlap.

In short: what we have is a mess of illegal and inethical behavior. It's not paranoia to believe THAT.

[riderinthestorm]

31. I think they are that evil and twisted.

I believe when you have that much power you get corrupted and the lines between good and bad begin to blur. Then the slide begins into true evil. I think these long-time powerful families slid into the abyss decades ago....

[mnhtnbb]

33. Bush is an evil man. HIs family is not interested in democracy,

only grabbing power through any means and using it to maximize their wealth.

[Tiggeroshii]

38. Darth Vader and the Emporer. n/t

[Philosoraptor]

39. It does seem almost sci fi in it's scope.

Almost like George Lucas is writing it.

[Swamp Rat]

43. yep