State of Ohio Establishes "Pre-Crime" Registry

[Syrinx]

COLUMBUS - An Ohio legislative panel yesterday rubber-stamped an unprecedented process that would allow sex offenders to be publicly identified and tracked even if they've never been charged with a crime.

A recently enacted law allows county prosecutors, the state attorney general, or, as a last resort, alleged victims to ask judges to civilly declare someone to be a sex offender even when there has been no criminal verdict or successful lawsuit.

The rules spell out how the untried process would work. It would largely treat a person placed on the civil registry the same way a convicted sex offender is treated under Ohio's so-called Megan's Law.

The person's name, address, and photograph would be placed on a new Internet database and the person would be subjected to the same registration and community notification requirements and restrictions on where he could live.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060829/NEWS24/608290360/-1/NEWS

[Bozita]

1. sounds a lot like Gitmo

Due process?

[muntrv]

2. How can you be a sex offender if you have not been convicted?

Guilty until proven innocent.

[liberal N proud]

7. They are just going to accuse you then past your data on line

Then the vigilantes can come and get you.

[WindRavenX]

3. in no way can this be constitutional

Wow. :scared:

[ThomWV]

4. Wonder What They'll Be Naming The Camps?

Probably after closeby towns. Isn't that how the Germans did it?

[PresidentWar]

5. Has Tom Cruise been made aware of this?

Somebody in Ohio is taking the movie too seriously.

[mmonk]

28. I was about to say Minority Report. This country

has reached bizarro status.

[goddess40]

62. Too bad it can't be used for good

to get these people some help, but I'm not to confident in our doctors confidentiality anymore. The gov't would just use it to their advantage.

I thought of the same movie and I couldn't remember the name so thanks for reminding me or it would have driven me nuts all day.

[MADem]

6. I DESPISE sex offenders. That said, this, on the face of what the

article says, sounds FUCKED UP. And UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

What am I missing??? The courts find a person innocent, or don't charge them at all. Some asshole could accuse an innocent, untried person, and they end up on a PERV registry for six years before they have any hope of redress?

Anyone with more info on this? Is it related to Statutes of Limitations?

[berni_mccoy]

8. Let the Witch-hunting BEGIN!

Gays, non-religious and non-neocons will all be targeted with this illegal and unconstitutional bull-shit.

All that needs to be done is have a young brainwashed little girl go start falsely accusing the intendended targets, and the water-boarding will begin...

[jmowreader]

9. Sounds like a good way to get rid of annoying neighbors to me

The article says "alleged victims" can petition to have people put on this list.

So let me see...you've got a neighbor whose hobby irritates you. I don't know what...he makes birdbaths in the shape of the Mannikin-Pis, maybe. All you need do to get rid of him is to open a "day care" in your house (day care in quotes because you don't actually take in any children, you just pay fifty dollars for a business license and twenty for a sign) then petition the courts to have your neighbor declared a sex offender. It works best if you have a child--children never lie, you know.

I am very certain that in Ohio, sex offenders can't live within 500 feet of a day care, so this guy gets put on the sex offender list, he has to move, and it only cost you seventy dollars!

[ContraBass Black]

27. Or someone you don't want to date your child.

[LeighAnn]

10. Add civil adultry, spouse abuse, and tax cheat reporting to this

and the bill would die tonight. Do they just flat out not teach the Constitution in Ohio?

[jody]

11. I hope an alleged victim identifies Dubya, Uncle Dick, & Rummy. n/t

[Ksec]

12. Id say we bring back the stake burning

Tie them to a stake and burn them alive. Or maybe we could tie them down on fire anthills? Im ashamed to admit I live in Ohio anymore.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peacebird]

14. How can this be constitutional? Innocent until proven Guilty - right?

Isn't THAT the American way?

:wtf:

[WinkyDink]

15. How is someone an "offender" if they haven't been convicted of

"offending"??

How about pre-drunk-driving lists, for those who enter bars/bar areas?

Wait; here's one I could get behind: pre-election-theft lists for REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS.

[EstimatedProphet]

16. How nice. It will be illegal to not break the law now.

I can't wait to get away from here...

[asthmaticeog]

64. Amen that, brother.

Fuck this state.

[partylessinOhio]

17. This state is absolutely an insane place to live anymore.

This has to be against the Constitution. The worrisome thing is that alegislative panel would rubber-stamp an unprecedented process such as this that would declare someone to be a sex offender even when there has been no criminal verdict or successful lawsuit.





I was riding through a very run down area in the near west side of Cleveland today. I saw a white family sitting on a porch of a home with a large "Blackwell" sign in the front window. All people in that area are very, very poor. Go figure. What do they expect Blackwell will do for them?

[InkAddict]

18. Oh my....

In this day of identity theft, or even where similar names is enough to get one disparaged, hassled and booted for unspecified secret crimes, i.e., the "NO FLY LISTS". This is way, way over the line, in fact, unconstitutional. Disparaged and convicted for nearly a decade and thereafter by another's spiteful delusion? misperception, human error?????

All you guys and girls, better hire chaparones for that next date in Ohio, and be sure that the chaparone can't be purchased for a higher price by someone that doesn't like you much.

[liberalnurse]

20. Have you ever scene a fresh

female rape victim, say, age 9....where you can't tell where the vagina begins and the anus ends? These are the predator's of such victims that the law will apply. The courts do not have manpower or desire to follow every "accusation" that crosses their desk.

Reality is actually very cruel. Unless you see it for yourself, repeatedly, you can remain delusionally optimistic...which is not necessarily a bad place.

[Recursion]

21. Have you ever seen a person...

...falsely accuse of a sex crime, beaten within an inch of his life by an angry group of parents? I have.

[liberalnurse]

49. Have you????????????

:shrug: If so, why did you not intervene and save the individual?

[Recursion]

53. I tried, and ended up with 3 broken ribs

And I think the last thing this country needs is another outlet for parents to get hysterical about something.

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Fine. I DON'T HAPPEN TO BE THE CULPRIT

However, with this law written as it is, that doesn't matter! I'm just as likely to be tagged by it as anyone else in Ohio!

Do you think there aren't people that turn in people they don't like just to mess with them? I've had a stalker before, and I can tell you it happens.

Do you think that this country doesn't have police that fabricate evidence because they are so certain that their suspect is guilty, even though they can't prove it? I can assure you, there are.

This law boldly enables both those groups.

[Bluebear]

65. Watch out, or she'll TASER you. nt

[liberalnurse]

74. It is designed to monitor the predators who are

out on bond......The simple he said she said scenario will fall into another category as it does today......

[Richard Steele]

29. No, "people convicted of no crime" are who this law applies to.

Your ideas are the REASON this nation has a bill of rights.

History has shown, time and again, just how hellishly
BAD those ideas are. They are the ideas of dictatorships
and oppressive regimes; the ideas of governments who
terrorize their own citizens.

Here in the USA, we take the view that we should actually
make sure a person committed a crime before we destroy
their life.

It's a LIBERAL idea.
I'd be happy to send you some literature.

[beam me up scottie]

39. Why not just castrate and/or kill all males before they rape a 9-year old?

Why take chances?

Talk about delusional...did you even read the article?

[fudge stripe cookays]

46. You need to change...

your user name.

Because if YOU are liberal, I don't even want to think what conservative means.

Civil rights, anyone?

[KamaAina]

67. In that kind of a case, the perp would be charged with a crime

probably several, and then tried in a court of LAW.

Under the "Patently Unconstitutional Alleged Sex Offender Harassment Act of 2006", however, anyone who ended up on the wrong end of a "he said-she said" kind of situation would end up on the registry. Imagine if the McMartin preschool had been in present-day Ohio, for instance.

[me b zola]

71. You may feel that way now...

...but wait until someone doesn't like your politics or has another axe to grind with you and YOU are falsely accused. Do you have any sons? What if they are falsely accused?

I really don't get it. Many of your posts are intelligent & thoughtful and I tend to like the person that you seem to be...UNTIL it comes to crime & punishiment. Your obsession with law and order is almost pathological.

[WinkyDink]

73. Do you not understand the concept of "innocent until/unless proven

guilty"?

Maybe you should be falsely accused of a crime to send the point home.

[Ignacio Upton]

19. Minority Report in real life

Next thing you know there will be an actual Department of Pre-Crime.

[ThomWV]

22. Likely Fornicators Will Be Next

[mitchtv]

24. Just don't get on the wrong side

In an Ohio divorce! Oh please:wtf:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

25. We are no longer on the slippery slope. This is the edge of the abyss.

And the abyss is staring back at us.

[ContraBass Black]

26. Unacceptable.

How many will be branded before this is struck down?

[hootinholler]

36. Yes. How many?

First they came for the Jews, but I was not...

I will give the devil himself full rights under law in order to preserve mine.

-Hoot

[Kerrytravelers]

30. Well, they can no longer hate us for our freedoms.

[Nutmegger]

31. WTF?!

Anyone who supports this needs to read the 6th and 14th Amendments.

[beam me up scottie]

42. Anyone who supports this needs to be falsely accused of a sex crime in Ohi

Just to try it on for size.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. I wonder if ever gay person in Ohio is to be on that list.

This scares the living shit out of me.

[pitohui]

35. oh sure they will and everybody w. a vindictive ex too

in a vicious divorce it will be a race to see which lawyer can get which spouse on the list first

all gay people or even people who just look "funny," forget it, they're on the list

i mean...come on, to put people on such a list based on an accusation? this is a gift to sociopaths, i used to know a lady whose hobby was making up crap and informing the police, in fact, i was investigated for over a year by law enforcement because she told them that we sold drugs, as we didn't, fine, investigate -- but this would not even require any proof that anyone did anything

who amomg us has never once been accused or threatened by a sociopath or an emotional blackmailer?

this simply cannot stand, i can't believe there is even one person arguing for such a thing

there can be no social order, when anyone, no matter how productive and harmless, can be destroyed at whim without proof just with a cheap accusation

[Stinky The Clown]

38. Even Nathanial Hawthorne postulated there was proof required

before one was adored with the red A.

[JesterCS]

44. Ohio Law

States that oral sex is illegal too. Does that mean anyone who does such will be a sex offender?

[Spiffarino]

33. I would be utterly amazed...

...if this got past any U.S. court. This is utterly, obviously and completely unconstitutional.

[lisainmilo]

34. WTF is happening to the consititution???????

Seriously, are we reverting back to the days of colonialism, when we were at war with King George III!!!
What the hell are they doing slowly burning the constitution!
I don't get it! I cant believe our country is that far down the toliet!
It makes me sick!

[blonndee]

37. I'm kicking this shit. I don't think I've been this shocked since the

reselection of Bush. I'm almost speechless.

WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY??????

[LiberalUprising]

41. kick

n/t

[Mythsaje]

40. Two words...

FUCKING INSANE!

[RoyGBiv]

43. More on this story ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2050265&mesg_id=2050265

[soup]

61. Thank you for digging into this.

I sometimes think it would be nice if topic-related threads could somehow be 'linked' to stay together within a forum, or combined as they are in LBN. (It'd probably create more problems than it's worth, though.)

Guess that's what the :kick: is for.

[NMMNG]

45. What's next, a Thought Crime Registry?

Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.



Bloody insane. :crazy:

[Swamp Rat]

47. THOUGHT CRIMES!!!

[dogday]

48. Let's try this unlawful, unconstitutional procedure

on say a group we do not like, well like preverts, right? This is the way it always starts, whether it is smokers or sex offenders, the method of the madness is still the same, deny the people their constitution rights.....

[ticapnews]

52. Like Republican slogans, this law was better in the original German.

We need special laws for people we can't trust.

For example, we can't trust those Jews....

or Communists....

or union members....

or intellectuals....

[ticapnews]

50. When I was little, Ken Blackwell, Mike DeWine and George W. Bush...

touched me in a bad place.

Put them on the list, please.

[Toots]

51. This is just following the Bush* doctrine of pre-emptive attack to it's

logical conclusion. How can this be wrong if Bush* was right? Attack another country just because we want to and tell everyone it was because we were deathly afraid of them so had to attack...:shrug: It is the Republican world we live in. The Constitution is "only a piece of paper" don't you know...

[EnviroBat]

54. This is such utter bullshit!

I feel a rampage coming on... This Nazi regime police state has got to go, and no, I'm in no way shape, or form a sympathizer to any sex offender, but for Gods sake, lets find people guilty of crimes prior to punishing them. What a convenient tool this will become for disposing of seditionists, and war protesters. Hmmmm?

[The2ndWheel]

55. How does this not make sense?

Civilization is about control. It's about, or at least it seems to be about, taking chance out of the equation. It'll be about protecting the children, and that's why it will eventually be the norm. We have more people every day, and we need more order so that things don't fall apart. That's why the NSA will know everything, why we want to learn about how the brain works, and why things like this will come to be. It's all about control.

[fudge stripe cookays]

56. Are you nuts?

Because it goes against everything our country stands for. It's OUTLINED in our Constitution!

We are INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY (at least up til now). Any nutbar that's pissed at their ex can now accuse them of something, and they will be added to this registry.

[The2ndWheel]

58. I'm not agreeing with it

I'm not nuts. Whatever, and wherever, we're taking this thing we call civilization is. This is the logical conclusion of what we started when we began controlling our environments to allow us to have easier lives.

It's about taking randomness out of life. It's why we have to pick a career earlier and earlier every generation. It's why security cameras will eventually be everywhere. It's the basis of our Information Age.

Who knows, maybe this exact ruling won't go anywhere. But there will be something like it at some point. The system wants to fall apart. It does that naturally. It's why every empire in history has fallen, and always will. Hell, it's why the sun will die out in a couple billion years. It takes energy to keep order. That's why new empires always rise up after they fall. It's tougher in today's day and age to use simple force. We'll use the brain in that way instead. Or we'll take the chance out of the equation by setting up laws similar to this one.

[fudge stripe cookays]

63. Aah.

The phrase "How does this not make sense?" confused me. Perhaps "Why are we not surprised?" might have been less so.

It sounded like you were agreeing with it.

[treestar]

57. Well then this country has gone into an unhealthy control-freak

state. It can be overdone, too.

[The2ndWheel]

59. No question

But this control-freak process has been going on over thousands of years. Maybe the only way to stop it is to watch it fall under its own weight, because it won't be easy to stop. Like I said, it happen over a long time. An inch here, and inch there. This generation might not like it, but the next will be a little more used to it, and so on. Take racism as an example. Not that it's all gone today, but there is far less of it, at least in the overt way. But as generations have come and gone, racism becomes less of a factor. Social relationships and mass systems are a little different in how they view progress though.

[edhopper]

60. My ex-girlfriend

humiliated me sexually and openly cheated on me. She used sex to take advantage of me.
So I can report her on this list because in my mind she was definitely a sexual predator. Sound OK to everyone?

[OzarkDem]

66. Its a deal w/ the Catholic Church over its sex offender priests

The frickin GOP General Assembly is enacting a law that closes the window that allows child molesting priests to be sued in civil trials for molesting children. Its a payoff to the Catholic Church, saving them millions in lawsuits from parents and kids who were victims of the church's pedophiles.

This law is letting child molestor priests off the hook in exchange for being "monitored". Wonder who will watch them, the other priests?

The whole thing is doubly screwed up.

[GeorgeGist]

68. This explains it all...

"The concept was offered by

Roman Catholic bishops

as an alternative to opening a one-time window for the filing of civil lawsuits alleging child sexual abuse that occurred as long as 35 years ago."

[Jcrowley]

69. Tony Blair is taking that one step further

Blair to tackle 'menace' children

Tomorrow's potential troublemakers can be identified even before they are born, Tony Blair has suggested. 

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14786.htm

[madmusic]

72. Of course.

Why else would he and BushCo be such pals?

This is real and it's happened before when grandpa had the power. If only Hitler would have gone slower.

[AnnieBW]

70. Another Divorce Weapon...

I wonder how long it's going to take someone who's going through an ugly divorce to have their soon-to-be-ex placed on that list? "See, your honor? My husband is a sex offender! He's on the list! That means I get full custody, right?"

Yeah... this is gonna open up a really big can o'worms.