It's getting hard out there...woman abandons

[ikojo]

her two kids at a local grocery store...according to one TV news station the oldest of the kids is 13. I cannot imagine what this mom was facing that caused her to abandon her kids. Whenever I hear stuff like this I am even more amazed that my mom survived raising six kids alone with little regular child support and on low wages.

I hope they are able to find this woman and give her the psychological and financial assistance she so desparately needs. Unfortunately she will probably be found and punished rather than helped.


http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov_localnews_060904_motherkids.6919fa24.html

Mother abandons daughters at south St. Louis store

05:19 PM CDT on Monday, September 4, 2006

Watch News 4 coverage

(KMOV) -- A woman left her two young daughters at the Schnucks Super Center in the 3400 block of south Grand this afternoon.

The mother entered the store and announced she could no longer take care of the children and left the store.

The girls do not appear to be injured but are very upset.

Detectives are still searching for the mother.

[sweetheart]

1. kids are the mistake of a lifetime

A moment on the hips, a lifetime on the wallet.

Owned by our own genetic desire for successful progeny,
to pay for walmart's expansion and die poor... i totally
get why someone would dump a kid. For all the 'cute',
only the rich can afford kids without selling off the
china...

People should have more abortions.

[tocqueville]

3. how about sexual education and free contraception

Why is that SO difficult ?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MADem]

12. I didn't get any Mom blaming in that post you responded to...

Contraception isn't just a female responsibility...men can do it as well. And they have been, across centuries, with sheeps intestines and whatnot...

And sex education works regardless of gender, nu?

[Breeze54]

14. The story was about the Mom. n/t

[MADem]

17. Uh, I REALIZE that, but the poster you are complaining about

was responding to the poster who said, in essence, that kids suck.

The poster was pointing out that, in lieu of more abortions, a solution for those who don't want kids is sex education and contraception.

No mention was made if that contraception must be the responsibility of females, or males.

I think you owe the poster an apology, frankly.

[Breeze54]

23. Get a life.

This is a messageboard.

[MADem]

39. I beg your pardon? You are being rude. NT

[RB TexLa]

28. Damn right it's my responsiblity, (male) I am not going to father children

my wife has no say in that.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Breeze54]

38. Yeah...ok

Being a woman; I wouldn't know anything about birth control. :sarcasm:
:crazy:
And people aren't human either. Shit happens. People are people.
Most of the population were 'mistakes'! OOPS!

Can I have my cup of "stfu"; with a shot of rum please? :shrug:
Preferably Puerto Rican! ;)

:toast:

[MADem]

40. Again, you are being rude. What is wrong with you?

The poster explained the post clearly, it is you that has a comprehension problem. Contraception is NOT just a woman's issue, but perhaps your partners are brutes. That doesn't make EVERYONE a brute, simply because you've had negative experiences.

For shame. Sexism cuts both ways, and your comments are sexist in the extreme.

Go ahead and be snarky to me again. I'm anticipating it.

[OzarkDem]

37. Its not difficult

and we should be doing it more often. I'm surprised in our own area, as I found at a recent meeting, how little is being done re sex education and birth control with young people. The results are tragic, its hard for any woman to be a single parent, regardless of income. We should be doing all we can to discourage, not encourage it.

[DRoseDARs]

4. Wow, talk about flamebait...

Good luck with that. ;)

[MrModerate]

5. Well . . . yes and no. Mostly no.

I'm not rich and I have kids (adopted, as it turns out), and they're not bankrupting me. I have to keep working, but that was a given when I left my parents' home some several decades ago (if only to keep myself fed and clothed).

Cute is nice, but hardly the driving factor. In fact, to parents, even the most objectively ugly child has sufficient "cute" to keep them in the support game. It's not really cuteness, but the deep interaction with another human being. Many would describe it as "love." Is it genetically programmed? Probably. So what.

And, while you may get why someone would dump a kid, do you also get why most people would consider it absolutely unacceptable, and in fact a serious crime?

However, I can certainly see that you're probably not a great candidate for parenthood. I hope you're being responsible with regard to those urges, to avoid that abortion thing, which regardless of the circumstances is still an occasion of sadness for all concerned.

[sweetheart]

27. a crime of what?

do you also get why most people would consider it absolutely unacceptable, and in fact a serious crime?

Ya know, you must be rich, 'cuz i've known people who've been stressed to the point of thinkin' about
this, and its not a serious crime, its a human being suffering... a person who birthed a kid only to discover,
too late, that it was not working, and that they were going to die if they kept doing it.

So the option becomes, finding a way out, or dying... and i respect any person who might find a way out,
and given our sick social tendency to criminalize every social stress and reality of poverty and being
part of the very stressed urban underclass, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I don't have any judgements about someone who has to make that kind of choice.. its between them and
their kid, not me and you. It certainly is not a serious crime unless it is one, and what we're
seeing in this thread is no serious crime.

I agree that society must take seriously, children and their proper upbringing for our mutual future as
an apparent civil society. But we are not a civil society, but a bunch of sick murderous barbarians who
have murdered as a culture more persons, as a collective USA state terrorists INC. and bringing up a
kid to become another murderer, to kill 100,000 more in the sick racist cutlrue, really is worth one
of those famed american ethical moments... one where my ethics say its a bad deal, and yours say
to condemn me to being a bad parent... geez, wow, you know so much about human hearts, you've already
weighted mine.

[MrModerate]

32. Sometimes it doesn't take much evidence . . .

To come to a pretty solid conclusion. Hence my judgment of you.

This presumes, of course, that what you've said is sincere and not just flamebait. Since I respond here recreationally (not deluding myself that DU is the proximate cause of ANYTHING) I don't particularly care. Bait away.

But let's start: count up the percentage of households with children. Last I heard it was something in the 40s. All those people are rich? I wonder how you define "rich." Actually I AM rich -- the joy and sense of self-worth I derive from contributing to my family members' well-being is priceless, but certainly of high value.

In answer to your question, though, the crime is -- now I realize this is a bit of a mental leap -- "child abandonment." Yep, that's against the law. Shocking iznit, given how evil we are and such.

You're trying to tell me that providing childcare is literally killing your acquaintances? You need better acquaintances -- and a stronger grip on reality -- because that's bullshit.

And you're also dead wrong that someone making the choice to abandon a child is between them and the child. Society has a word or two to say, and it's completely appropriate that it do so. If a parent can't parent, then by all means they should protect the child by turning him or her over to those who can. There are mechanisms in every community for the state to take custody of the child. And by "state," I don't mean the part-time bagger at the local Piggly-Wiggly. A slightly higher standard is called for.

[MADem]

41. Well said, Mr Moderate. As problematic as state governments are,

they're likely much better at dealing with child services than the bagger at the Piggly Wiggly (haven't been in one of those in half a century, damn near!).

[sweetheart]

42. Well, you don't have much to go on then.

I've never abandoned a child, nor have i participated in any part of that, only in life encountering
the stresses persons encounter with childraising. After hearing the horror stories of children
raised as wards of the state, i'm not so supportive of your ideal that its better... better than
what? Child prostitution, surely, but children's prisons are not better: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=216&topic_id=3703#3722

Your summary judgement of my character because i don't conform to your expected social standards,
is really a bit wide. I'm 44, i have a teenager who has never known want, and i've never taken
state aid of any sort, having been more than successful in my career... and in that long random
walk of life, i've seen a lot of child-poverty and abuse, to the point where its very person for
theyzzself when the government is as failed as it is. Perhaps because i've smoked cannabis for
so many years and have rubbed shoulders through my common smoke, with many persons who are in
much different life situations, ones that are trying for the best of us.

[readmoreoften]

50. You have no goddamn idea what is going on with that woman.

I'm sure that by "rich" Sweetheart meant "middle or working class", which these days is close enough to rich for most of us. I'd put my money on the fact that the woman who gave away her kids is (a) severely mental ill, or (b) extremely poor, or (c) both. It's nice that you're a comfortable and responsible parent, and it's a real shame that women who are (a) severely mentally ill, or (b) extremely poor, or (c) both can't get better help to make them better parents. OR, like Sweetheart said, have better access to abortion and birth control.

As far as "child abandonment" goes, she should have left them at one of the legal hospital drop off centers as opposed to the Piggly Wiggly. I'm sure she knows the difference.

Why are you jumping to "moral issue"? What the hell do you know about this situation? Nothing. The tobacco stains on the street are worth more than such an uninformed rush to justice. It takes a bold and brave heart to condemn a woman whose situation you know nothing about on an anonymous internet forum.

Not so keen on abortion? Get used to child abandonment.

[MrModerate]

87. Quite so. I never said I knew what was going on with the woman . . .

Who abandoned her children -- outside of the bare facts in the cited article.

I was commenting on Sweetheart's bizarre and ridiculous statements that childrearing was proving fatal to his/her acquaintances and that the choice to abandon a minor child was purely a matter between the child and the parent. And incidentally that using the term rich in this context (I agree, he/she probably meant middle/working class) rendered the whole argument -- such as it was -- both laughable and revealing.

I have nothing to say to the woman -- I think she was probably unable to make the connection with the proper agency to surrender her children to, for whatever reasons.

Sweetheart's postings, however, were pure bullshit, and I called him/her on it.

[juajen]

7. Children are wonderful and enrich our lives tremendously

Responsible people, whether rich, poor or in between, should have children. However, abortions should be available for people who need one for whatever reasons. Even if a pregnancy is a surprise, children need lots of love and acceptance. Additionally, children and mothers of children who need help should receive it readily from our government, local and national.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

10. Mad at your mother?

[sweetheart]

22. no

Im just discussing children as economic choices rather than bio-love rationalizations.

A lotta relationships i seen coulda survived weren't it not for the economic pressures
of kids, my own parents included. So, yes, in a world where overpopulation is rife,
and where people sell off their own lives vicariously for their children, as if it
makes them any closer to jesus, or just the jesus of population expansion.

There are plenty of peopple out there who need love and some parenting, and the
need to fuck up my own lot of DNA seems hardly pressing, really.

To not want to spend 20 years slaving economically for thanks/goodbye fuck off, unless
you really want to, is a lie, and i respect any parent who is willing to tell the truth.

To explain heart to heart why, the kid is better off at wall mart that
the parent can experience freedom from slavery. In the poverty classes,
its come to that, for all the faux concern of the wealthy elites.

[ikojo]

25. For many parents today, it doesn't end at 18 or 21

but continues until the kid can afford a place of his/her own around 27 or 30. Many kids graduate from college with a debt burden that delays their becoming fully self sufficient after graduating from college.

[kineneb]

56. some parents still helping their over-40 age kids

like me. Otherwise our car wouldn't run and we would not have food at the end of the month. Mom send us gift cards to the grocery. And we do own our home. But we are two people trying to live on $14K/yr, and life is difficult. And no, I don't dare get a job or Hubby would loose Medi-Cal. Also, I would miss too much work taking him to his four different doctors.

[FearofFutility]

54. I really feel sorry for you.

Your ramblings are indicative of someone who missed out on the mother instinct gene. To equate raising a child with slavery is very telling.

[sweetheart]

72. love is not slavery

I would not stay with someone if it was not about love, and thats far beyond a mother instinct gene, it comes
from the root of my human soul that is, in its DNA, no different than you. If children is about love for you,
then you don't leave them in walmart, and you don't lose the battle so badly... but maybe you do, maybe luck
moves against you, and the world collapses in, you lose you job, relationships break up, people die, catastrophies and war
destroy people's homes, and its not your fucking fault.

Then, when you are struggling to survive, a kid can be a sink or swim decision, and our economic culture
sells that in every commercial... our society lives on the religion of darwinian financial survival and when
a boat sinks, when the waves wash over the deck, then a buch of assholes show up and throw harpoons at them.

And others sadly know all too heartfelt how it must feel to be at the distressing point in life where you
would leave your bairn in a 7/11.

I wish people had more sympathy for the person this thread is about.. for all the compassion.

[MelliMel]

80. I have sympathy

For her children who are now going to have to deal with the scars of being abandoned by their mother.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cerridwen]

20. "Abortions are bad for your health" Er, 'scuse me?

I must have missed that memo. Got a link, source, cite, something?

edit to add the statistics of which I was aware:

Safety: Legal abortion is a safe procedure. Infection rates are less than 1%, and fewer than 1 in 100,000 deaths occurs from first-trimester abortions. Abortion is safer for the mother than carrying a pregnancy to term.
link

[Flying Dream Blues]

29. Great screen name!

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[windbreeze]

34. WOW....simply Wow

I know we all have our opinions...and sweetheart...I may not agree with yours but I recognize you still have a right to it...
For one..."dumping a kid" is illegal...and yes, children are definitely an expense..however I can't imagine life w/o them...or birthdays/christmas/easter(or the first step, first tooth, first day of school, graduation, wedding)...and the joy each of those bring...
For you to say, you totally get why someone would dump a kid...makes you sound about 13...and also makes it seem as though you may be the proud possessor of some horrid parents...
Money isn't everything...even when it comes to kids...there are a lot of them on this earth who go without every day...and will still come out on top, because they've learned how to do with very little..and how to make something out of nothing...
People should have more abortions.....NO...people need to use birth control...and simply learn how not get pregnant with kids they can't afford to have...or don't want....
I was stunned by your post..I respect the right for anyone not to have kids, if they feel that's best for them, but thats a decision to make before the fact, not after...
wb

[MelliMel]

43. Disgusting

i totally
get why someone would dump a kid.

Yes, because it's the child's fault that someone either did not use bc or have an abortion.

There are many of us that struggle financially but would never, ever abandon our children. It's called responsibility for your actions. Maybe you were never taught that?

[sweetheart]

71. 'getting' metaphor?

when therz so many ways to dump a kid,
moral and amoral meeting somewhere else today,
swiftboats say they've flipped their lids,
abortion'ed parents who went on their way.

it does indeed strike a strong narrative, a deep religious belief here,
as even the innocent have gone linda blair and are spouting the invective of
ad hominem assasination over 'why' it has come to insults, like
'sweetheart' should never have been born (some of the deleted posts here).

..and i expect what is really behind the heat, is that
potentially, as turns out to be true, i'm talking about
abortion in metaphor, and this is a shadow war about abortion
without mentioning abortion, and the pro lifers attack, whilst
the nurturing persons talk about personal choice, economic
empowerment and freedom.

I'm amazed at how many writers here on DU take this issue that personally,
that they open a slagging match this way, so many deleted posts, really
embarassing, given the incredibly un-probitive remark i made at post 1,
it was not intended the least as a flame, but to represent a POV, that needs
to be aired, one that is systematically ramrodded out of all media supporting
progenating another generation of army recruits and white voters... how dare
somebody suggest that we committ electoral suicide and not support polygamy
and child pregnancy just to keep it consistent, really...

What do you sell off politically to achieve an 'India' per capital birthrate.

Maybe i've divined the roots wrong, but i'm really shocked to what has
got the goat of these hostile affronts. Can people disagree without being
personal, do people burn the books of poets when metaphor bypasses them?

I know the real concern here is people believe that by standing against
a so obviously an opposition POV, it makes them more caring, loving and better parents; as if.

One out of 5 american children is raised below the poverty line, the infant death rates are
that of a thirdworld nation, and raising children is all about economics, yet it seems
people are not clear about that at all, and have the POV that economics is not their
prime motivator, and, IMO, thusly they are trapped by the man.

[joe_sixpack]

45. Mom?

Is that you?!

[LostinVA]

47. oh boy

[bleedingheart]

49. move over...

:popcorn:

[LostinVA]

52. Where's the salt?

[FearofFutility]

48. Have you considered Prozac? n/t

[Horse with no Name]

63. How about

better job training, better wages, and insurance. How about single mothers not having to work 3 jobs to make ends meet?
I'm sure that is a better answer than people who really WANT children than having abortions. Again, it isn't about abortion. It is about choice.
This woman chose to have children.
Reeks of desperation to me.

[Lilith Velkor]

66. ...

:applause:

[bling bling]

73. No. They're not a mistake of a lifetime.

Nobody I personally know who has children would say that. That's because what you said is not true. Unless you have children how could you know? Some people *know* they don't want to be parents, and that's fine and I respect and support that for them. I thought I was one of them, actually. Until my daughter surprised me and my husband by coming into the picture. I had no idea what it would be like to have a kid. I was mostly afraid of how it would cramp the style I'd grown accustomed to and comfortable with. Now that she's here, I can say without hesitation that this is what life is about (for me). It's the most powerful experience ever. It's really impossible to describe.

You can't possibly "get" why someone would dump a kid anymore than you could possibly "get" why someone could love their kid more than life itself. Having a child is something you can't sympathise with, can't empathise with, can't imagine, can't "get" unless you have one.

I'm just keeping it real. Your "kids are the mistake of a lifetime" comment is very, very wrong. And if you think you're bringing out some kind of enlightened point that needs to be brought out into the open and discussed it's kind of laughable. It's like me telling American Indians what it's like to be an American Indian, yet I'm mostly Polish. They'd laugh me out of the room.

[sweetheart]

75. very well put

You can obviously afford it.

You are married, not single, apparently, and are in a position to enjoy, its obviously right.

Luckily the rest of us are not doing the same thing or the planet would be in even worse shape.

My point is really, that children are economic, and you are very fortunate to be rich enough to
overlook this fact. If you weren't, you might be working 2 jobs instead, and not able to spend
time with the kid at all, borrowing things and accepting favours from family and friends to make
ends meet. And when your kid slams the door in your face at 18 and never speaks to you again,
you will re-discover that it was an economic freebie from you to USA inc, thanks for raising
a lovely soldier mrs sheehan, we'll be taking him now.

You speak about love from the heart, its right for you, and we all have a part to play on the
stage of life, and it simply is not the truth that we all should be projenating our brains out,
but somebody has to have the truth to NOT do that, and help raise all the fucked up wards of the
state we already have, millions of them unwanted... everybody wants a zygote, but nobody wants a human being.

[bling bling]

76. Holy cow. I just read further down. Ignore my last post.

"I'm 44, i have a teenager..."

Now that I know that you have a kid, my previous comment does not apply. I was totally wrong about what I said. Now that I know you're a parent, I am completely appauled that you would say having kids "is the mistake of a lifetime" and I will not try to change your heart. If your own child didn't make you feel and understand the priceless personal value and worth of having children (regardless of economics), then it's a hopeless cause for me to try.

"Mistake of a lifetime" "Lifetime on the wallet....." wow. Oh my oh my. That's heart wrenching to hear from a parent. :cry:

[Red Right and BLUE]

81. Saddest, most disgusting thing

I have read in a long time.

[NuttyFluffers]

83. an issue that's been with cruel societies since time immemorial

in some societies all members are/were valued. if one could not raise them, and the reasons didn't matter, then another would step in. in societies where deep class divisions exist, contraception/fertility were removed from the public's control, and coinage was the lord of the day, you got a White Market. very simple. when a society becomes governed by commodities then everything has a price -- including children. you stated the cruel, but plain truth (albeit it wounds the sensitive souls who don't want to understand). it's a truth that must be said: want a society where money is god? then be ready to watch a world where children have a price.

don't believe children can be a luxury? talk to me about dowry systems, concubines, child labor, etc. children can very much be a luxury. which is why i believe contraception should be rained from the heavens like manna...

[NMMNG]

84. Wow.

Now I know why I had you on my ignore list for so long.

Back you go.

[sweetheart]

86. How do you inquire?

My way of inquiry is to first off the cuff, and then look
in increasing depth at the roots of the ideas and discussion.

Its a radical form of inquiry, in that it involves being wrong
and being willing to look at emotions and feelings that are in
our society, that we wall ourselves off from and pretend don't exist.

And gosh, it is sadly too much about money, and the freedom
money buys. Then the ruthless one who will sell off their children
gets the richest, buys the republican party, and imposes that ethic
on uz all endemically by cutting the legs out from under the middle
classes.

I'm glad to be on your ignore list, i stand for freedom of thought
and conscience, and i've been consistent, and not rude, that i
disagree with this society about a lot of things.

We do an abysmal job with our young. Its embarassing, and the fact
that childrearing has been privatized can't even be cynically discussed,
as people are too offended to admit how ruthless economics cause us to behave.

A toast to all the people on your ignore list. :toast:

[uppityperson]

94. If this isn't flamebait, I am guessing you have 1 or more teens.

It passes, they become human again, often. Did you forget the :sarcasm: smiley

[Cerridwen]

2. This link worked better for me than the one you provided.

Just an FYI in case you want to update yours.

http://www.kmov.com/localnews/stories/kmov_localnews_060904_motherkids.6919fa24.html

edit: forgot to post what I was originally thinking as I read
this, I can't imagine the kind of desperation she must have
felt to resort to this.  I hope this is not an indication of
things to come.

This is so sad.

:(

[ikojo]

6. Thank you, I updated the link in my

original post.

[notadmblnd]

18. it kinda reminds us of another time when it was common for people

to leave babies on others doorsteps. Or was that just in the movies?

[Cerridwen]

19. Doorsteps of orphanages. Looks like we'll see the re-birth

(pun intended) of state run orphanages.

[elehhhhna]

35. Correctio: Private orphanages. Tom DeLay owns one. We call it

Foster
farming here in TX and it's a disgusting twist on privatising for profit (whether it's called "non-profit" or not).


"The three DeLay-related charities are the DeLay Foundation For Kids Inc., Oaks At Rio Bend Inc. and Celebrations For Children Inc.

Celebrations For Children was the "charity" that was going to sponsor events at the Republican National Convention to get around the ban on soft money.

...the media thought Celebrations was inactive after it received a lot of negative publicity but Celebrations raised $293K and spent $210K in the year ended August 31, 2004. No money was donated to charity. Cash at 8/31/04 was $96k.

Oaks At Rio Bend is the charity that is building housing for foster children in Fort Bend,TX.
http://dailydelay.blogspot.com/2005/11/delays-host-committee.html

[me b zola]

82. Yeah, families had hard choices to make in the depression

My mother's father ran off during the depression(with his niece :eyes:) leaving my grandmother to provide for 7 children. Grandma worked 3 jobs, but mom would tell me the story (with much bitterness in her voice) of how grandma would put one piece of coal in the furnace at a time, even as there was ice on the insides of the windows. Many days all they had to eat was flour and milk, sometimes no milk just water. Grandma eventually made the only choice she could make for her children--the younger ones were adopted out and the older ones like my mother were sent to an orphanage.

Horrible times, I fear how close we will come to that.

[mcscajun]

11. I hope they find the mother, and soon.

Because given the ages of the girls, and how she left them, I'd expect to see a suicide report next.

[EFerrari]

16. Me, too. What a terrible place this country has become. n./t

[soup]

44. Me, too. Looking for updates.

No mention of her being found yet. But a weird sentence in the middle of the report - "Their mother told police she is homeless." When would she have done that? Has she contacted the police?

>snip<
A spokesman for the St. Louis police chief said the mother who abandoned her two children will not face any criminal charges.

>snip<
The spokesman said, "this is not a police matter,” and, "it is not a crime to drop off your kids."

((an aside: Do we believe that? Is it true? or are they thinking maybe they can 'talk her in'?))

>snip<
It was reported that the girls are now staying at the Annie Malone Children and Family Service Center in north St. Louis.

The facility specializes in offering children emergency care needed because of unusual circumstances.

The children are in protective custody and will likely be put up for adoption.
http://www.kmov.com/localnews/stories/kmov_localnews_060904_motherkids_kk.6919fa24.html

[philosophie_en_rose]

15. Sometimes abandonment is perceived to be necessary.

Perhaps the mother has a misguided notion that her children will now have a better life with another family.

I feel so sorry for the kids. But this is obviously a plea from the mother for help.

[cap]

21. before you judge the mother...

the kids were started in better times. One kid is 13 years old... The mother did not know what the future would bring years down the road.

I think the mother is desperate...not justifying what she did but just asking for mercy in these hard times.

[raccoon]

90. Good point, Cap.

We know nothing about this woman. It might have been that when the kids were born, she was married to their father, they were doing well financially...and then one or both parents got laid off, or the father abandoned the family.

[bloom]

26. It would be nice to see our society

be more helpful to mothers.

The "too bad she didn't get an abortion when she had the chance" type of attitude does not wash with me.

The "rich get richer and the poor get poorer" may very well mostly mean that the childless get richer and the parents can go to hell - esp. single parents - which esp. means the mothers.

While the world would be better off with people having fewer children - the world would also be better off with people who saw that we are all connected and where people looked out after each other and where more value was allotted to those who cared than on those with money.

Some people (not on this board necessarily) seem to assume that everything is hunky-dory in the USA and anyone who wants to be rich can be. Maybe people who do not become mothers before they have a master's degree - who don't get depressed because of the way the world is - and such and so - can get rich if they want. That is assuming an awful lot. That everyone is born as a privileged, white male - basically.

[tnlefty]

33. Nice, and thank you for the sentiments that you expressed!

How many people have lost jobs, lost health insurance, been forced to accept a low paying job, etc.? I started my family in the early 90's when I felt as though Bush, Sr. was going out the door, and I didn't fully understand that this country would be as mean-spirited as it seems today, as well as some years prior.

As much as I dearly love my children I can say that I don't think that I would've had them if I had known then what I witness now.

spelling

[Javaman]

36. another sign of morons* america...

I loath and detest that bastard*

[cynatnite]

46. I hope the mom goes to jail...

She should for abandoning her children like that. She couldn't take them to a relative? To Human Services?

She had to abandon them at a goddamn grocery store? :grr:

[readmoreoften]

51. Hmm. Well, maybe she doesn't have relatives.

And maybe she's afraid that someone in human services would take her to jail, like you suggest. Or maybe she is mentally ill. Why hope for someone to go to jail, when you don't know who they are or what their story is. Why don't you just hope that the kids get what they need and the mother gets help.

[cynatnite]

57. Because I have no compassion for someone who...

would abandon their children in a grocery store. I'm not going to excuse her for traumatizing those children.

[readmoreoften]

78. What about schizophrenics who abandon their kids? Or clinically

depressed people who think that the kids would be better off with a grocer. You have no idea what is going through this woman's mind. As the child of a mentally ill person, I have to tell you I spent 1/3 of my life taking care of myself, a 1/3 of my life taking care of my dad, and a 1/3 of my life protecting both of us from judgemental people like you.

You have no idea who this woman is. If she is a callous bitch who only had the kids to trap a man into marriage and then dropped them in the supermarket so she could go shoot heroin and hang out with her new boyfriend, that's one thing. If she and her children are homeless because she lost her job as a waitress because she couldn't afford her psychiatric medication and now she thinks demons are after her kids, it's another thing altogether.

[Gormy Cuss]

92. Think of it this way.

Which is preferable, the trauma of being abandoned in a well lit grocery store, or having your mother throw you off a pier to drown in the cold swift currents of San Francisco Bay? The latter happened last year. Three kids, tossed so quickly that the handful of fisherman down the pier didn't know what was wrong until she had tossed the first two in. They were unable to react in time to prevent her from throwing the third child off the pier.

The SF mother was severely mentally ill. Who knows about this mother? It's hard to pass judgement on her before the facts are in.

[marions ghost]

53. Jail?

Sad, stressed and mentally ill people made into criminals. Oh good idea. :(

[cynatnite]

58. It doesn't say if she was mentally ill...

it's not to say she's not, but geez, a fucking grocery store?

She abandoned her children. She should go to jail.

[marions ghost]

59. obviously

you have never felt hopeless or known such a person. These are depressing and stressful times for many Americans. Anyone who abandons their children may have serious mental problems, may possibly even be contemplating suicide. At the very least they are going through troubled times and may not have what it takes to care for the children, especially if alone. But hey, don't bother your beautiful mind with any of that kind of "compassion" --obviously you don't have much to spare.

Jail. And what would that accomplish? Exactly nothing.

[cynatnite]

60. Of course I've known such people...

but we shouldn't excuse or easily forgive anyone who would do something so horrible to their children. This is an example of how little children are thought of...it's more about the 'poor' mother than those traumatized children.

I have no compassion for people who treat the most vulnerable of our society in such a way.

[marions ghost]

62. And you don't see the mother

as possibly vulnerable, clueless, unaware of what other options she might have had...?!?

No it isn't "more" about the mother than the kids. It's obviously a family tragedy. You're the one who wants to mete out some draconian punishment to the mother instead of helping a family in need. Punish the mother like that, and you will certainly punish the children further.

This is a cry for help. Grow a heart.

[cynatnite]

65. The mother abandoned her kids in a fucking grocery store...

You want to give her therapy.

I want the kids safe and secure in a home with a well-adjusted family. That should take priority over whatever problems the mother might possibly have. In this day when there are hospitals, cops, social services, relatives, churches and any number of organizations out there, I don't buy that 'she didn't know'. :eyes:

I also don't buy the fact that she's so mentally off that she leaves her kids in a grocery store. Hell, she announced it to everyone that could hear. If she was so mentally off balance why not just leave the kids wherever they were or at a neighbor's place?

I've got as much compassion as the next person, but there comes a time when wrong is wrong. There comes a time when you have to point to someone and call them for what they are...a morally bankrupt person who didn't want the hassle of dealing with kids anymore.

The fact of the matter is...some people deserve to go to jail.

[marions ghost]

68. If you really

knew anything about social services you'd know they are next to non-functional in some places. A church might help. The options may not have been so many as you think. But to know too much about how hard it is for some people out there these days might be a little disturbing for you to comprehend? Whatever, she obviously made a bad decision. Mentally off-balance people don't make the best decisions, y'know. Desperate people don't make the best decisions. Dumb people don't make the best decisions. But they should go to jail?

You never answered the question--exactly how does it help to put a person like this in jail? Is this a cure for whatever ails her, or as you define it her "moral bankruptcy"? How does jail make her more morally strong? It's more like DE-moralizing.

OK well. I see where you're coming from.

[readmoreoften]

79. As the child of a mentally ill parent, I call "bullshit" on your desire to

see this woman in jail.

If she's in jail, then she obviously can't care for her children. Do you think it wouldn't harm the children MORE to know that their mother was being punished by the state because of how much of a "burden" they were to her? You're just thinking of retaliation. It's bullshit. If you really cared about the kids, you'd hope that they were reunited with their mother and that she would receive social support.

[ikojo]

67. At many of the Schnuck's stores in the city of

St Louis there are police sub stations. I think that if this woman was overwhelmed with the daily care of her children she did the best thing by leaving them at the grocery store where she knew they would receive help. So many people just up and leave their kids at home with no provisions. I know these girls have got to be traumatized but it's hard telling what their young eyes have seen before this incident.

There is so much we don't know...maybe their mom feared for their safety and wanted to get them out, we just don't know. I do know that I do not think harshly of her. I grew up in a poor family and know what it's like not to have food, heat and electricity (I grew up in the 1970s and 1980s). I know what it is to be 11 years old and worry about whether my mom was going to meet the mortgage or was the electricity going to be turned off again. Children should not have such worries but many, many poor kids do.

Like most mothers, this mom did what she thought best for her kids. For all we know she may have done something very harsh to herself. I am sure it was not a decision that was easily made, and I don't even have kids but I certainly remember what it was to be one (which is one reason I've never wanted kids).

[marions ghost]

77. Judge not....

:hug: Many people have no idea what it's like to be really poor. If they were in that state for even a few weeks, they would lose all that righteous judgment and heavy criticism instantly.

[bertha katzenengel]

55. How many times have we heard this screech: "If you kids don't behave

I'm going to LEAVE YOU HERE!" It rings out in grocery stores and malls across the country -- every day, I imagine.

That's pretty damned terrifying by itself.

I hope these kids find a GOOD home, and I hope they can find help to get over the loss of their mother. It's going to take a long time, and they need good help.

[lonestarnot]

61. Lots of deleted posts here. Guess they don't understand the root

cause of abandonment here. You are right. This mom needs help of some kind. Maybe the bushitler economy was too much for her.

[Blue_Tires]

64. a sad state of our times

ttt

[OzarkDem]

69. Just like the days of Bush I

In 1992 when Clinton and Gore campaigned in their bus tour across Ohio (and other states, no doubt), they were struck by all the tragic people who came to see them and held up sick children, begging for help. Just the saddest stories of people's lives ruined by Reagan and Bush's crappy economy and recession.

Its so sad to see it all coming back again. It doesn't have to be this way.

[TexasLawyer]

70. My perspective

Not much detail here, but there may be mental illness, diminished mental capacity and/or substance abuse involved somewhere in the chain (affecting the children and/or the mother). Some people may face a situation where they need to give up their children temporarily or permanently because their children are too much to handle, and they just don't know how to do it.

Depending on this lady's facts, I may be in a position to empathize. My husband and I have three adopted children, two of whom (16 and 12 years old) are seriously mentally ill (bi-polar).

Living with these children day to day is very, very, very difficult. They have run away for days at a time, attempted suicide, stolen from friends, relatives and neighbors, have wandered away from school, hurt and stolen from their classmates, taken hard drugs, gotten expelled from school after school, gotten arrested for serious crimes, cursed out and beaten up family members (me included), and have given their family very little in return. That's just off the top of my head.

My younger child, Laura, really needs to be institutionalized. She has not been mentally healthy from day one. But realistically there is NOTHING I can do to get her the help she needs short of giving her up to the state of Texas foster care system. Other than accute care in a mental hospital for a week or two (with a hefty co-pay) my insurance covers zero. We've gone this route several times now (accute care following major rampages and suicide attempts) and it is not a long-term solution.

Private care is so costly it is almost laughable. The Menninger clinic, which is now very near Houston (where I live), would be wonderful but it costs an average of $1,000 per DAY for an adolescent. Long-term therapeutic boarding schools cost from $60,000 to $90,000 per year.

This would be 100% out of my pocket, but my pocket doesn't have that much in it. We could sell our house, sacrifice our retirement savings (such as they are), spend the college money for the other two children and STILL only be able to buy Laura a year or two of care.

I can imagine a single mother (who may also be impaired) trying to figure all this out on her own, and trying to cope emotionally, by herself, with what is going on.

I can really understand, though, how someone can reach the end of his/her tether-- and announce right then and there that their ability to cope is over.

[marions ghost]

74. Understood

:grouphug:

[NMMNG]

85. This is truly sad

And I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of this type of thing. Uppity moral grand-standers are demanding the right to refuse to dispense oral contraceptives and the "morning after pill" to women in pharmacies. States are working to make it difficult if not impossible for women to get legal and safe abortions. The Republicans are doing everything they can to gut assistance programs that would help needy out-of-work and under-employed mothers care for their children.

This event may only be the beginning. :-(

[OzarkDem]

89. People are hurting

I've been hearing our local food banks and hunger networks complaining for the last 6 months that they don't have enough food for the people who need it. Cuts or freezes in spending for food stamps, combined with higher prices means more and more people are going without - usually women and kids.

[NMMNG]

93. "Compassionate Conservativism" has done wonders for America

:sarcasm:
















Edit cuz I can't speel. :dunce:

[treestar]

88. That alone is enough to make her kids eligible for foster care,

at least. Though the state had not found it so before, so up till then she was a "fit parent." Trouble for the state is, allowing this to happen means anyone can make their children wards of the state by abandoning them. But then again, it would be a rare occurrence as if. Ironically, the state tries to take children from parents who fight the termination of their parental rights, and sometimes wins in the courts.

Just expect a lot of condemnation of this woman and hardly any of the father of the children.

[raccoon]

91. I was wondering all along, What about the kids' father(s)?

Doesn't he(they) have any responsibility AT ALL?

[pitohui]

95. i could tell a story

okay it's about one of my friends from high school

her husband DIED -- she say cancer but i suppose it coulda been drugs

be that as it may, she struggled for years trying to raise the kids w. no way to make money to care for them

she finally called the parish and asked them if she could give up the kids for adoption, hello, guess what, she should have done that when she popped the babies out not years later because the sheriff told her -- yes, you can BUT we will be forced to jail you for child neglect

i really don't know why any woman has a baby, your life is over and out of your control if you do

giving up a baby for adoption is BULLSHIT unless you arrange it before the birth

no one puts fathers in jail for child neglect for leaving baby, come on, we all know this...

[raccoon]

98. That is digusting, that they'd jail her for child neglect. nt

[cap]

96. I speak from experience...

my mother and her kids were taken in by the state during the Great Depression because my grandmother could not support the children and a blind husband. The mills closed down in Pawtucket RI and moved South leaving Pawtucket with 70% unemployment. She was starving and giving all her food to the kids. She got sick and collapsed from malnutrition. My grandmother threw her husband out onto the street and then had a nervous breakdown when she lost her job and was evicted from a home that was almost paid up. She went to the state institution and got electroshock treatment.

Have mercy on this woman... Giving the children to the state can be child abuse, especially these days with an overloaded system. My mother had a miserable childhood -- straight out of Dickens. Not every kid ends up in a middle class home.

[Swamp Rat]

97. poor woman... poor kids

:cry: