Honoring abstinence (man, this is just creepy)

[The Straight Story]

Honoring abstinence

BY JESSICA LOGAN, Californian staff writer
e-mail: [e-mail] | Sunday, Sep 3 2006 9:40 PM


Sherrill Gould places items including a portrait of her late daughter, Danielle, inside Calvary Chapel Westbrook that will be used as part of the seminar “One Girl’s Passion, Another Girl’s Pain — The Bride of Christ.”

But there was not just one bride. There were many, Gould said.

Girls and their mothers, about 180 in all, filled the pews of the church in late August.

The prayer was for these girls to wed their values to Jesus; specifically, to remain virgins until they marry.

This was the second annual purity event Gould has thrown in honor of her daughter, Danielle, who died in a car crash at age 17.

Before her death, Danielle had confided in her mother that she wanted to remain a virgin until marriage and wanted her mother's encouragement, suggesting a mother and daughter luncheon for their friends.

http://www.bakersfield.com/102/story/71537.html

[MrModerate]

1. So if you express a desire to maintain your virginity . . .

You're more likely to die in a car crash? Damn, that's harsh.

[DRoseDARs]

2. To each their own, but the part about wedding to Jesus smacks of polygamy.

Very poor writing there. :shrug:

[The Straight Story]

6. To each their own

Just gives me the willies for some reason. I get the jist of it all, being a christian myself and all, but something about it just seems really bizzare...

[DRoseDARs]

It's the archaic notion that sex is dirty, sinful business...

...mixed with even older notions from when girls were the property of their fathers/tribes and were used as economic and political tools. If a girl was not a virgin, no one would take her as a bride, ergo saving one's self for after marriage.

[TheDebbieDee]

17. But isn't this "being wed to Jesus" the same premise that is used

by Nuns when they officially take their vows? I apologize in advance if the terminology I use is incorrect, but I am not Catholic.

[SharonAnn]

24. Roman Catholic nuns become "brides of Christ"

[bluestateguy]

3. Very, very few people wait until they get married to have sex

I'm fine with telling children to wait until they are adults to have sex, and to behave responsibly when becoming sexually active, but abstinence until marriage? I mean come on, let's live in the real world here. A minuscule number of people are able to pull that off. If you can, great, but you are in the minority, and a very small minority at that. Are we really supposed to expect someone who is 30 years old and unmarried to remain a virgin? Anybody who does is just living in a fantasy world, which many of these religious extremists do.

[Cleita]

9. Also, back in my day, it caused a lot of

kids to marry very young, just because they were horny and those marriages ended in divorce. It's not a good way to go IMHO.

[patrice]

21. Right on!

[MADem]

11. I would think young ladies might be suspicious of some fellow

who INSISTS upon celibacy until marriage, and the sharp ones might want a look at the equipment. After all, if they're THAT exorcised about not doing the nasty, they're likely one of those 'covenant marriage/to death do us part' types, as well.

It sucks if you're anticipating a Fenway frank, and end up with a cocktail weenie, I'd imagine.

[Deja Q]

29. And the problem existed before the invention of the automobile too...

It was just more difficult to get... cars made it easier to get (travelling to pick up the person then drive to a deserted area to get jiggy...)

Though why so many are against marriage is beyond me. Working with one special person for life sounds awesome.

[Hamlette]

4. nuns do it

I'm not sure if the ceremony is the same, but as Karen Armstrong writes in her book about being a nun, they dress up in a wedding gown with veil and everything and marry Christ.

Same thing?

[Cleita]

13. I went to one of those "marriage" ceremonies.

The postulants who have been there for usually eight months to a year, put on wedding gowns and march down the aisle and take their first temporary vows. Then they go to a dressing room and come back dressed like nuns except with white veils. The are then known as novices. Then the convent holds a reception for the families just like a wedding reception. Back in the days when nuns wore full regalia, they also got gold bands or wedding rings at that time.

At the time I didn't think of it very much but now I find it creepy. All these brides are supposed to remain virgins for Christ. I wonder if this has anything to do with the seventy two virgins belief in Islam, if they borrowed it from the Christians and adjusted it to fit their culture?

[sendero]

15. Non-Stop..

... Non-Stop by The Stranglers

Dedicated, emancipated
Claims she waited her life for her man
Loves to pray every day
Says she's not frustrated in any way
Dressed in a black cotton sack
Pledges herself and she never looks back

She's a non stop nun
She's a non stop nun
She's a non stop nun
And she's running running running running running

Enlisted sister knows her mister
Never two times with the rest of the clan
In her eyes you sympathise
The afterlife holds a better plan

She's a non stop nun
She's a non stop nun
She's a non stop nun

And she gives up her old life
And she'll never be your wife
'Cos she's got the best lover
Better than any other
Better than any other

She's a non stop nun
She's a non stop nun
She's a non stop nun
And she's running running running running running

...

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. Wow, just wow. I can't quite understand the link. Bizarre. n/t

MKJ

[acmavm]

7. Let these people do what they want to do. What business is it of

ours? Isn't that our motto here. People should be free to believe what you want to believe as long as it does no harm. And if these girls, for instance, change their minds, they change their minds.

[Maven]

14. I agree, generally. But in this context, that viewpoint is misplaced and

naive.

It underemphasizes the link between right-wing ideology and the social pathologies that feed it. This new puritanism bleeds into political discourse and leads to damaging policies...clearly.

[The Straight Story]

19. They are more than free to do as they wish

I can't help but feel though it is creepy :)

And I don't like a lot of things other people do, here on DU or at the local church.

Dosen't mean I want to keep people from doing it.

I apologize if you felt my tone was offensive or restrictive in any way. I just found this under the file heading: weird.

[acmavm]

25. You are right, it is weird. But think about it, what or who isn't to

someone.

Another thought is what is normal?

[The Straight Story]

28. Reminds me of Thomas Szasz

Relevancy in psychiatry, etc and so on.

Who defines normal, and how does it change over time (ie, why is it some things we used to label as a mental illness are now not seen as such, and what today is in that position).

Normal is a statistic in a cultural manner. *I* think this is creepy - but I would not try to stop it or outlaw it. relative to me and my life this is bizzare - and by posting here I can see that many other people feel the same as I do (which, perhaps, might make me feel more normal...I shudder at the thought!)

This is the beauty of DU for me. We can all look at things from different life experiences and comment on them. What is freaky to one is normal to another, and we learn and grow because of it.

I still think it is kookier than batshit - but I am willing to listen to their reasons why (and those of DU) if they are willing to listen to my ideas of why there is a better way. Tit for Tat. Though I prefer Tit ;)

[Tanuki]

22. Sadly,

some of the young girls in question may not believe this or desire this, but may have been pressured by their uptight parents. Even if they do go along with it in their youthful naivete, what choice do they have when they change their minds but publicly "divorce" Jesus or maintain a hypocritical veneer of chastity while privately engaging in sex, possibly with a great deal of unhealthy guilt and denial? I am not convinced that there is "no harm" in adults extracting these ostentatious virginity pledges from minors.

[MADem]

8. So, the poor dear died wondering...that is sad.

I just don't get 'celebrating' it. Or attaching the name of the dead to this curious event. Or the bullshit about asking for the mother's "encouragement." The whole thing stinks like a GOP setup. Ooops, this poor gal died, ergo, we must be virginal in her honor!

Why attach so much morality to a biological function? Heck, education is the best tool those kids could have--not "Don't do it or the Baby Jesus will HATE you."

Why not have the mothers say "Get knocked up, don't expect GRANDMA to be your built-in babysitter, child!"

Christ!!!!!

[Bucky]

10. I tend to cut grieving mothers a little bit of slack in how they mourn.

Normally, I'd make some snarky comment like "Isn't it sacreligious to name your vibrator Jesus?"

But this woman buried her 17 year old daughter. Whatever she needs to do to get thru that, I won't criticize.

[The Straight Story]

20. It ain't the mom that bothers me :)

it's the idea.

[ikojo]

12. Aren't nuns considered brides of Christ?

Why don't they encourage girls to enter the nunnery...I hear Catholics are woefully low on younger nuns.

[Cleita]

16. There was a practical reason girls entered the convent

back in the days before feminism. It was the only place a smart girl could get an education and become a professional. Other than that she was excepted to get married, give up her career and raise as many children as God sent her on her husband's salary. Some of my friends became nuns for that reason. They didn't want to become housewives, but college professors, lawyers and doctors. The convent gave them the means to do this.

Now that women have more rights and can break through the glass ceiling, the convent isn't so attractive to young women anymore.

[patrice]

18. It is good for young women not to use their bodies in social barter.

Sex IS the coin of their realm.

They also shouldn't get the idea that they're some kind of golden fuck either, pity the poor man who has to deal with that.

I hope these mothers can steer a balanced course between the two extremes.

[Cerridwen]

23. And are the boys "grooms of Christ"? Sounds a bit different

from that perspective, huh?

If a girl chooses to make a commitment to religion and to a celibate way of life, more power to her. If she, repeat she chooses. I'm not sure how many of these girls are given full education about sex and celibacy. Is it an option or are they being coerced? Have they been educated about handling their teen aged hormones? Is masturbation an option or is this the whole "human body must be denied all sexual feelings" idea?

Just wondering.

[The Straight Story]

26. I CAN grasp some of this really:

The idea of putting your beliefs and ideals ahead of other things, a pure commitment to a cause. It can be a powerful way of mentally dedicating yourself to something which you feel is part of a bigger picture.

It is a bit creepy to me on the level of it's formality though (and perhaps I am being over judgemental) but then we are a society of rituals I suppose.

I DO share your concern where this concerns teens and such. Not because I think teens are dumb or anything, but they are heavily under the influence of adults in their lives (from home to school to church) who can sometimes be a little screwy (hell, myself included!).

Sex is a wonderful thing, it can lead to some really terrible things though. Older one gets the more one can see it's influences imho. This perhaps is the reason some parents want their kids to participate in something like this (ie, life is more than about that sexual urge you have, it is much bigger and more rich, so don't let it drive you, drive it instead kind of thing).

But with supression can come issues, and I wonder if said issues are being handled in a good manner here. For their sake, I hope so. The sad thing is that so many on the religious side equate sex with being negative and bad all the way around unless carried out in the construct they have set up - which can be a very strict one. In the olden days people married earlier and younger as sex (I am guessing here) was seen as a natural and powerful urge and instead of squashing it they approved of it within the confines of a committed relationship (via marriage). Ala - if you have to do it, find one person and go for it and don't 'whore' around.

This also, of course, led to some problems as people would get into a relationship in which sex would not be there and then they would be tempted.....aw hell, it's all too damned confusing!! Go forth and fuck like bunnies :)

[Cerridwen]

30. Your last sentence killed me.

:spray:



:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[ComerPerro]

27. these people don't "wait for marrige" to try anal and oral, in many cases

[Missy Vixen]

31. They're free to do as they like

It reminds me of my teen years as a member of the Assembly of God church. We, too, were expected to remain virgins till we got married. It was amazing how many church leaders' teen daughters got pregnant or probably made a visit to the clinic.

I should also mention that a long-term study of the students at the Bible college I attended (same denomination) showed that the divorce rate was actually higher than the norm. They saved themselves, though...

Julie

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Chastity is it's own punishment.

A bumper sticker I saw years ago and totally agree with.

[riderinthestorm]

33. I teach my kids it's important to honor their promises

and the stats show that this is one promise that 80% or more of these girls are going to break.

Along with a shitty lesson on values (breaking a promise), there's the heavy duty religious guilt trip. These parents are really practicing bad parenting when they demand some kind of "vow" out of their kids regarding sex.

Hormones are hormones and you are setting your kids up for failure to expect them to somehow beat mother nature during their teen years.

Better to counsel them on safe sex AND abstinence to ensure maximum success. Besides, most of these girls will go ahead and engage in anal and oral sex to somehow keep their hymens intact (when their hymen probably broke during a strenuous soccer game/horse back ride/gymnastic stunt on a balance beam....) Anal and oral sex carry a host of risk for STDs alone.

This mother is dealing with her grief in a very disturbing way imho - a way that actually will cause more harm, destruction and grief.

Really sad.

[InkAddict]

34. Exquisitely painful experiences

are awaiting the attendees of these mother/daughter luncheons, the kind of pain that's suited only for expression on the psychiatrist's couch; the damage, I fear,lifelong.

I'm inextricably drawn to and repulsed by this intensely private topic that encompasses the female human experience at any of her chronological life stages. Suffice it to say that I'm truly sorry that I could not meet the fundamentalists' expectations of an ALWAYS, "happily ever after (marriage)."

Waiting too long for results while working ever harder to honor and maintain one's choices, while a noble endeavor, puts a woman (and her husband), in the past and present political climate, into a state bordering on insanity and/or into perpetual slavery to the abusing corporate authority that leaves women in a place of danger, in a state of abject shame and poverty.

Fundamentalism seems to require that ALL women wear The Scarlet Letter; and the current phallic administration is sucking the lifeblood out of those that thought they escaped the mental illnesses that unhealthy deviant religious Christian fundamentalism has fostered. I'm here to tell you that this crazymaking is still very keenly alive and well and eating into the normalcy of our society.

The way it looks today, I'm an example of the Greek tradegy that it's spawned.
Life sucks and I'm ever so slowly, along with my spouse, being forced off any path to a home we could call OURS!