as the news anchor replacing Dan Rather tonight?
So let’s put it to Katie Couric. Does she have the journalistic chops to question * about what he knows about 9/11? Why we really invaded Iraq? Why he stayed on vacation eating cake and strumming guitars while people drowned in the wake of Katrina and why to this day New Orleans is still in shambles? Katie’s got some big shoes to step into. Is she up to the task?
First a little background. Who here remembers the on air dogfight between Dan Rather and the elder Bush, George H. W. back on January 25, in 1988?
DAN RATHER: Mr. Vice President, thank you for being with us tonight. Donald Gregg still serves as your trusted advisor. He was deeply involved in running arms to the contras, and he didn't inform you. Now, when President Reagan's trusted advisor Admiral Poindexter failed to inform him, the President fired him. Why is Mr. Gregg still inside the White House, is still a trusted advisor?
VICE PRESIDENT GEORGE BUSH: Because I have confidence in him and because this matter, Dan, as you well know, and your editors know, has been looked at by the $10 million study by the Senate and the House, it's been looked at by the Tower Commission. The Rodriguez testimony that you put on here I just think it's outrageous because he was totally vindicated, swore under oath that he never talked to me about the contras. And yet this report you're making, you told me, or your people did -- you have a Mr. Cohen that works for you -- was going to be a political profile. Now if this is a political profile for an election, I have a very different opinion as to what one should be. Don Gregg works for me because I don't think he's done anything wrong. And I think if he had, this exhaustive examination that went, that was gone into by the Senate and by the House, would have showed it. And you've impugned the--my integrity by suggesting with one of your little boards here that I didn't tell the truth about what Felix Rodriguez -- you didn't accuse me of it, but you made that suggestion. And other people were in the meeting, including Mr. Nick Brady, and he has said that my version is correct. And so I find this to be a rehash and a little bit, if you'll excuse me, a misrepresentation on the part of CBS, who said you're doing political profiles on all the candidates, and then you come up with something that has been exhaustively looked into.
RATHER: Mr. Vice President, what we agreed to or didn't agree to, I think you will agree for the moment, can be dealt with in another way. Let's talk about the record. You say that we've misrepresented your...
BUSH: Let's talk about the full record.
RATHER: ...record. Let's talk about the record.
BUSH: Yeah.
RATHER: If we've misrepresented your record in any way, here's a chance to set it straight. Now, for ex...
BUSH: Right. Can I just set it straight on one count, because you implied from that little thing, I, I have a little monitor sitting on the side here -- that I didn't tell the truth . Now this has all been looked into. It's just a rehash.
RATHER: Where did we imply that, Mr. Vice President?
BUSH: Well, just here, on this board, where you have the idea that Bush says that he didn't tell, didn't tell, didn't tell about the contras' supply from Felix Rodriguez.
RATHER: Mr. Vice Pres...
BUSH: Felix Rodriguez testified under oath, he has been public, and you could have at least run a little picture of him saying that I never told the Vice President about the contras. I'm asking for fair play, and I thought I was here to talk about my views on education, or on getting this deficit down...
RATHER: Well, Mr. Vice President, we want to talk about the record on this...
BUSH: Well, let's...
RATHER: ...because it...
BUSH: Well, let's talk about the full record. That's what I want to talk about, Dan.
RATHER: The framework here is that one-third of the Republicans in this poll...
BUSH: Yeah.
RATHER: One-third of the Republicans, and one-fourth of the people who say that, you know, they rather like you, believe you're hiding something. Now if you are, here's a...
BUSH: I am hiding something.
RATHER: Here's a chance to get it out.
BUSH: You know what I'm hiding? What I told the President, that's the only thing. And I've answered every question put before me. Now, if you have a question, what is it?
RATHER: I do have one.
BUSH: Please please fire away.
RATHER: You have said that if you had known this was an arms for hostages swap...
BUSH: Yes.
RATHER: ...that you would have opposed it. You also said that...
BUSH: Exactly. Now, let me, let me ask...
RATHER: ...that you would have opposed it. You also said that...
BUSH: Exactly. Now, let me ask...
RATHER: ...that you did not know that you...
BUSH: May I answer that...directly?
RATHER: That wasn't a question, it was a statement.
BUSH: Yes, it was a statement and I'll answer it.
RATHER: Let me ask the question, if I may, first.
BUSH: The President created this program, has testified or stated publicly he did not think it was arms for hostages, and it was only later that....
RATHER: That's the President, Mr. Vice President.
BUSH: ...and that's me, because I went along with it -- because you know why, Dan? Because I...
RATHER: That wasn't the question, Mr. Vice President.
BUSH: ...worried when I saw Mr. Buckley, heard about Mr. Buckley being tortured to death, later admitted is the CIA chief. So if I erred, I erred on the side of trying to get those hostages out of there. And the whole story has been told to Congress.
RATHER: Mr. Vice President, you set the rules for this talk here. I didn't mean to step on your line there, but you insisted that this be live, and you know we have a limited amount of time.
BUSH: Exactly, and that's why I want to get my share in here on something other than what you want to talk about.
RATHER: The President has spoken for himself. I'm asking you...
BUSH: Please.
RATHER: ...to speak for yourself, which you have not been willing to do in the past, and if I may suggest that this is what leads people to say, "Either George Bush was irrelevant or he was ineffective. He said himself he was out of the loop." Now, let me give you an example...
BUSH: Uh, may I explain "out of the loop?"
RATHER: You said, "Ask a question."
BUSH: May I explain "out of the loop?" No operational role. Go ahead.
RATHER: Now, you've said that if you'd known it was an arms-for-hostages swap you would have opposed it. You said the first you knew it was an arms-for-hostages swap was in December of 1986, correct?
BUSH: When the whole thing became briefed to me by Senator Durenberger...
RATHER: Exactly.
BUSH: ...and the proximity of arms to hostages much closer than we had thought on these hearings that were...
RATHER: But Mr. Vice President, you went to Israel in July 1986....
BUSH: Yes.
RATHER: ...and a member of your own staff, Craig Fuller, has verified, and so did the only other man there, Mr. Nir, Mr. Amiram Nir, who's the Israeli's top anti-terrorist man...
BUSH: Yes.
RATHER: ...those two men were in a meeting with you and Mr. Nir not once, but three times, three times, underscored with you, that this was a straight-out arms-for-hostages swap.
BUSH: What they were doing...
RATHER: Now how do you...
BUSH: Read the memo, read the mem.
RATHER: I have, sir.
BUSH: What they were doing...
RATHER: How can you reconcile that you were there? Mr. Nir underscored three separate occasions that it was an arms-for-hostages swap and told you you were dealing with the most radical elements in Iran. You were dealing straightaway with the Ayatollah Khomeini.
BUSH: I was told what they were doing and not what we were doing, and that's the big difference; and, Dan, I expressed my concerns and reservations about that. That has been testified to under oath by Mr. Poindexter. And it's been confirmed that I had reservations and spoke up by Don Regan. In fact, he said the other day that I expressed them to the President.
RATHER: That's correct.
BUSH: I don't discuss what I talked to the president because there's a principle involved. It has nothing to do with Iran-contra. It's the principle of confidentiality...
RATHER: But Mis...
BUSH: ...between the President and the Vice President.
RATHER: ...Mr. Vice President, Mr. Vice President...
BUSH: Yes.
RATHER: ...the President has said he wants all the facts out. He gave up such things as even his own diary. Every principal, including...
BUSH: He did not give up his own diary.
RATHER: ...Secretary Shultz. He gave up some of it.
BUSH: His diary, his brief. Well, Dan, let's be careful here because you're explaining a political profile.
RATHER: I want you to be careful, Mr. Vice President...
BUSH: I will be careful
RATHER: ...because the problem here...
BUSH: But I want to get my side of this out.
RATHER: ...is that you repeatedly sat in the meetings. You sat in a meeting in which Secretary Shultz, in the most forceful way, raised his objection...
BUSH: I wasn't there, for the most forceful way. If it was the most forceful way -- I've heard George Shultz be very, very forceful; and, if I were there and he was very, very forceful at that meeting, I would have remembered that. I don't remember that. And that is what I'm saying.
RATHER: Then how do you explain that you can't remember it and the other people at the meeting say he was apoplectic?
BUSH: Maybe I wasn't there at that point.
RATHER: You weren't in the meeting?
BUSH: I'm not suggesting. I'm just saying I don't remember it.
RATHER: I don't want to be argumentative, Mr. Vice President.
BUSH: You do, Dan.
RATHER: No...no, sir, I don't.
BUSH: This is not a great night, because I want to talk about why I want to be president, why those 41 percent of the people are supporting me. And I don't think it's fair...
RATHER: And Mr. Vice President, if these questions are --
BUSH: ...to judge my whole career by a rehash on Iran. How would you like it if I judged your career by those seven minutes when you walked off the set in New York?
http://www.ratherbiased.com/bizarre.htm#miamiWalkout)[br />
BUSH: ...Would you like that?
RATHER: Mr. Vice President...
BUSH: I have respect for you, but I don't have respect for what you're doing here tonight.
RATHER: Mr. Vice President, I think you'll agree that your qualification for President and what kind of leadership you'd bring to the country, what kind of government you'd have, what kind of people you have around you....
BUSH: Exactly.
RATHER: ...is much more important that what you just referred to. I'd be happy to...
BUSH: Well, I want to be judged on the whole record, and you're not giving an opportunity.
RATHER: And I'm trying to set the record straight, Mr. Vice President.
BUSH: You invited me to come here and talk about -- I thought -- the whole record.
RATHER: I want you to talk about the record. You sat in a meeting with George Shultz...
BUSH: Yes, and I've given you an answer.
RATHER: He got apoplectic when he found out that you were...
BUSH: He didn't get apoplectic. You have to ask Don Regan. Ask...
RATHER: ...you and the President were being party to sending missiles to the Ayatollah...
BUSH: Ask...
RATHER: ...the Ayatollah of Iran. Can you explain how -- you were supposed to be the -- you are -- you're an anti terrorist expert. We -- Iran was officially a terrorist state.
BUSH: I've already explained that, Dan.
RATHER: You went around telling -- you -- you...
BUSH: I wanted those hostages -- I wanted Mr. Buckley out of there...
RATHER: Mr. Vice President, the question is -- but you--made us hypocrites in the face of the world.
BUSH: Before he was killed, which he has been killed.
RATHER: How could you...
BUSH: That was bad.
RATHER: ...sign on to such a policy?! And the question is...
BUSH: Well, had the same reason the President signed on to it.
RATHER: ...what does that tell us about your record?
BUSH: The same reason the President signed on to it. When a CIA agent is being tortured to death, maybe you err on the side of a human life. But everybody's admitted mistakes. I've admitted mistakes. And you want to dwell on them, and I want to talk about the values we believe in and experience and the integrity that goes with all of this, and what's -- I'm going to do about education, and you're...there's nothing new
here. I thought this was a news program. What is new?
RATHER: Well, I had hoped, Mr. Vice President, that you would tell us to whom you expressed your reservations...
BUSH: Yes, I did.
RATHER: ...when you expressed them and what were the reservations?
BUSH: Poindexter testified under oath.
RATHER: What were the reservations?
BUSH: His testi -- reservation about getting the control of an operation in the hands of a foreign power. Don Regan stated the other day, and I never heard a word of it on CBS, that the Vice President, in the presence of the President, spoke up about his concern about the whole cover of an operation being blown and secret -- and people that you're dealing with putting their lives in jeopardy.
RATHER: And you weren't concerned about sending missiles to the Ayatollah Khomeini?
BUSH: And I felt that always on every covert -- every covert action.
RATHER: You weren't...
BUSH: The President has explained that. The committee looked at that, and so there's nothing new on this.
RATHER: Mr. Vice President, I appreciate you joining us tonight. I appreciate this straightforward way in which you engaged in this exchange. Clearly, some unanswered questions remain.
BUSH: Fire on another one.
RATHER: Are you willing to go to a news conference before the Iowa caucuses, answer questions from all -- all comers?
BUSH: I've been to 86 news conferences since March.
Eighty-six of them since March.
RATHER: I gather that the answer is "No." Thank you very much for being with us, Mr. Vice President. We'll be back with more news in a moment.
Video and transcript here:
http://www.ratherbiased.com/transcript.htm