Bush caused the Iraqis to look at Saddam as the "good ole days."

[Montagnard]

It’s not easy to create a situation where life is better under a dictatorship than in a democracy, but George Bush has succeeded in achieving the impossible by invading Iraq.

At least 40,000 Iraqis have been killed in the past three years, with scores more murdered every day. Hospitals overflow with the wounded. Conditions are so bad, an estimated 1-million Iraqis have fled their homes for sanctuary in Jordan, Syria and Egypt. Iraqis, particularly middle-class families, who survived Saddam Hussein’s dictatorship, are leaving en masse. Even Mr. Bush admits things are “terrible” in Baghdad.

http://politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/4036/1/207/


Iraq’s Parliament Debating Breaking the Country Up.

Iraq's parliament has reopened after a month-long recess marred by mounting sectarian violence, with deputies expected to discuss breaking up the country into semi-independent regions.
At the top of the agenda was the controversial issue of whether to allow Iraq's provinces to merge into larger autonomous regions, a move which some Sunni Arab lawmakers fear could tear the country apart.
Other groups, however, strongly support a plan which would create virtually independent zones in the oil-rich Shiite south and Kurdish north, and leave Sunni Arabs economically isolated in the barren western desert

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060905/wl_afp/iraq

Iraqis Extend State of Emergency a Month.

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Parliament voted Tuesday to extend a state of emergency for a month, and Britain's foreign secretary emphasized the importance of transferring control of security from the U.S.-led coalition to the Iraqi government.
The state of emergency has been in place for almost two years and covers every region except the autonomous Kurdish region in the north. It grants security forces greater powers such as implementing curfews and making arrests without warrants.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060905/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_060905105044


August in Baghdad Ends With Flurry of Violence

The sharp rise in the number of deaths comes after a dramatic decline earlier in the month.

By Louise Roug, Times Staff Writer
September 5, 2006

BAGHDAD — The number of killings in Iraq's capital escalated last week despite an American-led crackdown, with morgue workers receiving as many bodies as they had during the first three weeks of August.

At least 334 people, including 23 women, were slain in Baghdad between Aug. 27 and Sept. 2, according to morgue figures provided by Health Ministry officials. Most of the victims had been kidnapped, tortured, tied and shot.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-iraq5sep05,1,3756594.story?coll=la-headlines-world

40 Bodies, Many Blindfolded, Are Found in Baghdad; 1980’s Execution Site Is Also Uncovered

By PAUL von ZIELBAUER
Published: September 5, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Sept. 4 — The bodies of 40 people, including 25 who had been blindfolded and shot at close range, were found Monday in Baghdad, an Interior Ministry official said. A mass grave containing 18 bodies of people who were apparently executed in the 1980’s was also discovered in Kirkuk, in the north.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/05/world/middleeast/05iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

More than 30 bodies found across Baghdad

By ELENA BECATOROS, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, September 5, 2006 1:11 AM PDT

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Police found the tortured, blindfolded bodies of 33 men scattered across the capital Monday and the U.S.-led coalition reported combat deaths of seven servicemen, a day after Iraqi leaders said the capture of a top terror suspect would reduce violence.

Kidnappers also dragged off a popular soccer star in Baghdad, while a security crackdown in the city expanded into the upscale Mansour neighborhood

http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2006/09/05/news/world/iq_3586908.txt


Al-Qaida in Iraq's leadership crisis does little to derail country's violence

By: THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Issue date: 9/5/06 Section: World

BAGHDAD - A popular Iraqi soccer star was kidnapped and 35 bullet-riddles bodies were found in Iraq yesterday, a day after Iraqi officials touted the capture of al-Qaida in Iraq's No. 2 leader as a move to reduce violence in the country.

http://www.bgnews.com/media/storage/paper883/news/2006/09/05/World/AlQaida.In.Iraqs.Leadership.Crisis.Does.Little.To.Derail.Countrys.Violence-2256940.shtml?norewrite200609051644&sourcedomain=www.bgnews.com

[htuttle]

1. We do the same thing. I can't tell you how many times I've heard...

..."I guess Nixon wasn't that bad after all...", since Bush became President.

[ACK]

2. Damn that is pretty freaking sad

Can you picture that?

"Gosh man wasn't it good when the neighbors just disappeared, my son was tortured and the poison gas rained down ?!? Those were the good old days."

Geez man when those are the "good old days" then the situation in Iraq has to be worse than even I could have imagined.

[MADem]

3. Well, if you were Sunni, it was party time!

If you were Kurdish, you got crapped on...until Saddam made his accomodation with the Kurds, and they agreed to leave each other alone. Then life was pretty good for them. They still have the best deal in all Iraq--no one bothers them much, still.

The Shi'a, on a broader scale, got the shit end of Saddam's stick, but there were so many of them, that plenty could live their poor life under the radar in reasonable comfort.

There may not have been luxuries, but there was food. People didn't starve. There was electricity, and schools, and kids could play in the street without fear. Women could walk in the road without being attacked for not wearing hijab. You had to pay the local cop a bribe every week and give him a Ramadan present to make sure your house didn't get robbed, but that was like paying the alarm company.

Now there's rubble here and there, military vehicles, booms during the day and the night, fear of being busted in on and having your house tossed, no security even if you had money to pay for it, it's keep the gun handy, bar the door, indifferent electricity, water that's not safe to drink, a total mess. Even simple things like taking the kid to school or going shopping can be like running a gauntlet. Not a good way to live.

[ACK]

5. I was being somewhat facetious

Saddam was a bastard.

No, he was no direct or indirect threat to the US and we should not have gone to war based on that alone.

But he was still a dick.

And considering what a dick he was it is amazing that normal folks look back with nostalgia. It goes to show honestly how bad things are right now.

Oh yeah you think I some sh*t in the middle fence sitter but no it is a terrible testement to the failures of the administration and their policies that we have not restored enough infrastructure or security to this country we sped into bombing the hell out of.

We went to war when we should not have.

But not only that once we did we failed miserably with every goal except for deposing Sadamm. We did not learn the lessons of Vietnam. We did not go in with overwhelming force. We had no clearly defined objectives. We had no exit strategy. It has been a huge cluster fuck from one end to the other.

[MADem]

7. I realize you were--what we should have done was put our own dictator

in there; a NICER (kinder, gentler?) dictator, KEPT the damn army, purged the super-bastards and 'rehabilitated' the rest, and then done one of those "transition to democracy" efforts that takes forty years...like Egypt!

Instead, we shove our contentious system down their throats, and there's hell to pay. Everyone wants to be lead dog; no clue how to share or distribute power. In that end of the world, the only logical alternative to dictatorship is rule by Sharia law.

But Iraq is the land of roving excuses (or ROVE excuses, depending how ya look at it)....uh, they wuz involved in Nahn Wun Wun...no? Uh, they had them weap-pinz a mass deestructshun...no? Uh, well, SAD-ham was uh, MEEEEEAN, so we had ta git ridda him....he gassed his own people (uh, don't mention that we sold him the Cobra helicopters and the chemicals...).....unnnnh.....RAPE ROOMS, yeah, that'll appall people...RAPE ROOMS (but don't mention the ones in Abu Ghraib...!!!)...

[ACK]

8. cool yeah but when we get all "pragmatic" like that

It always backfires. Every time we play dictator switch out it comes out to bite us in the ass.

We are like the superheroes in the comic books we always create our own worst enemies.

I mean shit wait a couple of years and see how our buddies in the warr on terra Pakistan turns out. A military dictatorship that exports terror supports islamic fundies and gives up nuke secrets to North Korea and Iran??

Geez, get a couple of more friends like that and we all just kiss our asses goodbye.

[MADem]

9. Oh, those things have definite timespans--they are not permanent solutions

Make no mistake. The real challenge is getting the dictator to break loose and start democratizing. They NEVER want to do that. The only way around it is to not just "pick the Dick" but pick his ENTIRE STAFF as well--hell, pepper the joint with double agents. And also keep a VERY tight rein on the disbursements. We don't tend to do that.

Look at the Shah, we put him in there in 53, and he was on a plane in 79. Not a bad run, that. He actually could have hung on had he started a democratization process before he got cancer, and if his kid had been a few years older to take the reins. He also was inattentive to the real needs of the growing middle class, so the upper crust and the upper middle class left in disgust (for LA, many of them), and that was a big chunk of his base.

We could STILL be milking that cow had it not been for circumstance, bullheadedness and pisspoor planning.

Look at Egypt--you gotta realize the guy in charge now was Anwar Sadat's best pal in the air force--they partied together, came up together, and he was on the dais when Anwar got shot. One is a continuation of the other.

You keep dictators in line with cold hard cash. Problem is, we get lazy and never think PAST that. We need to use a little more stick on the ass of the dictator, and be a bit tight with the carrots when the guy misbehaves.

Pervez has been problematic from the gitgo, even though GWB, when running for Prez, had no clue who the guy was. He wants to be Joe Cool on the western scene, but he's got some KOOKY bastards in senior slots in his military--they are fundy, whackjob crazy, and their subordinates AGREE with them. Pervez has trouble, make no mistake. I mean, how many times have they tried to off the guy???

It's unlikely that will end well, either.

[ACK]

10. I think we would have been better off supporting a homegrown resistance

Instead of trying to install a dick-lite.

We should have always been the ones supporting the little guys and their resistance movements against dictators instead of turning around and installing dictators.

That is what the Cold War got us a legacy of dictators all with CIA ties. Ugh.

[MADem]

11. That's a great plan, so long as we don't need to operate in the area

any time soon. Or if we don't NEED the assets that country has, OR if we don't want to deny the assets to some other actor on the world stage. And in that case, it's a "why bother?" scenario.

We really don't give a damn about other countries as much as we should, unless it's in our INTEREST to give a damn. Every now and again we can be moved by hunger or natural disaster to lend a hand, but even in those cases we are often slow out of the gate.

If we need the strategic advantage of forward operations or basing, ya gotta be good with the gubmint, unless the opposition has taken vast swathes of territory.

Those insurgencies take a while.

[ACK]

12. Yeah but man this short term thinking is biting us in the as

It bit us in the ass in Iran.

It bit us is the ass in Iraq.

It will bite us in the ass in Pakistan too eventually.

[MADem]

13. No argument there. It's not just the short term thinking that is killing

us, it's the short term thinking WITHOUT a concurrent long-term plan that is hosing us totally.

[ACK]

14. Well I think that is something we both can

Certainly agree to.

[keta11]

4. How can 40,000 people be killed in

the last 3 years when it was recently documented that 3,000 are being killed monthly? 36 months * 3,000 = 108,000 people if we assume roughly equal monthly sectarian/ revenge killings. And this number does not include the ones killed by American soldiers in shock & war, Haditha etc.

Oh my, George "Dumbya" Bush is one horrific murderer!!! Aren't his crimes rivalling Saddam Hussein's?
The difference being he did'nt kill his own people, except nearly 3,000 soldiers

On edit:
Sorry, it says at least 40,000

[savemefromdumbya]

6. Just from dictator to another

more killed by Bush than Hussein