Leave Others Their Otherness...

[Mythsaje]

We can argue until the end of time what the founding fathers meant when they erected the wall between Church and State. Whether it was just to protect the Christian sects from one another, or if they actually meant to protect Jews, Muslims, Deists, and other Free Thinkers from those who would persecute them as well, doesn't matter now.

We're all here now, and we're not going away. This is OUR COUNTRY TOO.

You are all more than welcome to practice your religion in your home and your church the way your conscience dictates. But, by the same token, you have NO RIGHT to dictate to us how we choose to worship or not, or live our lives if we do not choose to live as you do.

We are all Americans, and we DEMAND tolerance. We, the pagan, the Jew, the Muslim, the Rastafarian, the Gay. We belong here. We are here. And, as much as you might wish we'd go away, we're not going anywhere. America belongs to ALL OF US.

ALL WE ASK is that you afford us the same respect you would want yourself. Do not push your religion in our faces, and we will do the same. Leave the public sector free of your beliefs, and we will do the same. You have no more right to erect a crucifix, or the ten commandments, on the land that belongs to all of us as we do to raise a Buddha, or a pentacle, in the town square.

This is not a Christian nation. It belongs to the adherants of NO religion in particular.

You do not have the right to enact laws that promote your religious beliefs over those of your neighbors. We will not allow it.

Attend your church, read your holy books, and teach your children as you will.

But we demand the right to do the same. And you're going to let us. You know why? Because this is America, and we are all equal here.

THAT is what America is all about.

And don't forget it. If you do, we will remind you.

Leave others their otherness.

That is what America means.

"They" hate us for our freedoms, some might say. Well, that's one of our freedoms.

And if we toss that freedom away, well, then they win.

And we KNOW you wouldn't want that, would you?

Leave others their otherness.

That's all we ask.

It isn't really that hard, is it?

[Wonk]

1. You forgot to mention atheists and agnostics, speaking of Otherness.

Otherwise, good post, imho.

[Mythsaje]

3. Free Thinkers covers that, I think...

That's what the founding father's would've called them.

[lvx35]

2. sorry, I've got to join the "to the end of time" argument....

the founding fathers were unquestionably favorable of religious diversity. The first evidence is the number of them that were Deists, the second thing is that many of them were masons, an organization which was always based on religious tolerance at least between Jews, Muslims, and Christians, and in modern times, all religions. I don't think there should be any argument about what the founding fathers meant, they meant tolerance for all religions.

[Mythsaje]

4. No, but they will NEVER accept that...

True or not.

We can argue the matter back and forth, convinced that our own side is correct.

But the fact is, it's futile.

This isn't a Christian nation because WE say it isn't. Those of us who are not Christian, or don't believe in politicizing our religion, will not allow it.

That's enough.

[lvx35]

8. True, true. Its good to stand up for it here and now

as who we are; America, now. But I HATE to let historical revisionism slide like that....:)

[Mythsaje]

12. I guess the only response can be

"We know you're wrong, but you'll never accept it, so screw it. That was then, this is now. And now matters one hell of a lot more than then. Get over it."

;)

[lvx35]

15. Yeah, its true, we're an evolving nation....nt

[NMMNG]

19. Actually,

This isn't a Christian nation because WE say it isn't. Those of us who are not Christian, or don't believe in politicizing our religion, will not allow it.


This isn't a Christian nation simply because it is not a Christian nation (and never was). The fact that the majority of Americans are Christian does not make America a Christian nation any more than the fact that the majority of Americans are caucasian makes America a "caucasian nation". We are a plural nation, plain and simple. Some choose not to accept that fact but that refusal changes nothing.

[silverweb]

5. Saje, you're amazing.

Like a well that never runs dry, always fresh and refreshing.

You just made crystal clear in a little over 400 words what I've tried to explain to a few people for God/dess knows how long.

[lvx35]

9. He's good, isn't he?

I like his stuff as well. I just hope he's contining to write, so the good stuff is going more places than DU!!! :)

[Mythsaje]

13. I've started posting this stuff on gather.com as well...

I've invited DUers to start participating over there. It's a new community, and there are already some pretty vocal and knowledgable liberals. It's a good place for getting the message out, in my opinion.

[lvx35]

14. Good, I'll check it out.

And I don't know how political it is over there, but I thought I'd mention its also good to just publish good thoughts outside of the established framework...Like that poster said your stuff is "fresh", meaning outside of any established party line. Original stuff like this brings a lot to discourse, folks like Asimov have taught me more in the bigger picture than any political pundits. So I wouldn't get too tied down if I was you! :)

[Mythsaje]

16. I learned a lot from Herbert, myself...

I was jumping for joy last week when I discovered that his son had found notes and an outline for a new Dune book continuing the saga and collaborated with Kevin J. Anderson (though Kevin isn't exactly my favorite author) to write two more novels to complete the series.

I'm listening to it now. Well, not at the moment.

As far as the rest...well, I write very original fantasy. Even coined my own name for the sub-genre. Futuristic Urban Fantasy.

I insist on keeping my own voice, no matter what I write. I live outside the box...it's finding my way INTO the box that seems to be the problem. LOL

[lvx35]

20. Yeah, I know that feeling...

Not being able to fit in the box. I think I've come to terms with the fact that some people are meant to change the "box" a little - in order to fit. These are the true "progressives" in the original sense of the word, they change the world not always because they want to, but because they have to.

[Mythsaje]

21. This may be true.

Sometimes I feel as though I bring something new to the table in a lot of discussions.

[lvx35]

22. well, you know...

don't let your head float to the ceiling...but there is a big difference between people who just walk a party line and those who think things out for themselves and offer original truths.

[Mythsaje]

11. Ah, now I'm blushing...

:blush:

See what you made me do?

:D

[silverweb]

17. That's okay.

Actually, that's refreshing, too; someone who can still blush hasn't been overtaken by ego. ;)

And thanks for the introduction to gather.com. It looks like another great site.

Just keep writing, okay?

:pals:

[Mythsaje]

18. Writing's been one of my passions since I was 10...

Been doing it for thirty years now.

I don't see myself quitting. The withdrawals would kill me. LOL

[pitohui]

6. they meant to protect deists/ atheists

it's odd how the george washingtons and the tom paines of this country are honored only in the breach

they MEANT to protect people who didn't believe in god or who didn't believe god could be arsed to lift a finger to help us -- in other words, the most intelligent people of the day, the washingtons, the paines, the jeffersons, the franklins

no, it shouldn't be that hard but since there are more stupid people than intelligent people
...
yeah it will always be that hard

the stupid people will forever outbreed us because we're not willing to take steps to stop them

[Mythsaje]

7. Yeah, we all know this.

But we'll never convince them.

So why try?

Start from today.

This is the way it is NOW.

[pitohui]

10. agreed you got to start from where you're standing EOM

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