Why do you want this ABC movie pulled specifically?

[The2ndWheel]

How is this different than any other day on TV? What's with the religious like zeal to getting this taken off the air? Don't we live in the information age? Everything gets put out there, and the chips fall where they may. Or that's the idea anyway.

Oh no! Kids will read it in this or that! Because children haven't been fed propaganda in schools for decades. This will be that final straw.

Maybe it's just me, but the drive to stop the airing of the film, entertainment, propatainment, whatever you want to call it, freaks me out more than the film, which hasn't even aired.

Yeah, the media is owned by giant corporations. We know. Stopping this enterpaganda won't change that.

[bryant69]

1. I agree with you

The way to fight misinformation is with good information, not by trying to silence the misinformation - that just backfires. And it creates mechanisms that can be used to silence more than just the initial offender.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Bandit]

56. How is that going for you anyway?

Americans sure seemed informed about the propaganda being pushed upon them don't they? :shrug: That is what this is all about. Not necessarily getting ABC to not air the movie but to get them to admit it isn't factual and in fact an out an out LIE. That is what the entire campaign is all about. "to fight misinformation is with good information",

[bryant69]

64. I feel like i'm being accused of something.

Is this about my opposition to the boycott as a tactic?

[Virginia Dare]

2. I don't necessarily want it pulled...

but I want them to have to air some heavy disclaimers about the fictional aspects, and I also want them to give President Clinton a chance to rebut the claims personally.

[blm]

3. I agree - Dems should USE IT to EXPOSE the GOP control of most media and

how the corporate media profits off of Bush's war policies.

[Lex]

4. The outright telling of lies about the tragic events of 9/11

and the events leading up to 9/11 are beyond the pale.

I can't fight every battle with the media but I can fight some.

[Individualist]

15. Leni Riefenstahl would be proud of ABC

and their attempt to spread reich wing propaganda.

[Benhurst]

45. I doubt it. No matter how foul Riefenstahl's propaganda,

she was a talented film maker, which made her work all the more dangerous.

My guess is The Road to 911 is not only propaganda, but crap from a cinematic point of view as well.

[Individualist]

51. Agree it's crap from a cinematic point of view

I should have made myself clear that I was referring to widespread dissemination of propaganda films. Leni would be green with envy.

[Benhurst]

52. On that, I agree.

:hi:

[Cosmocat]

62. It has to stop somewhere ...

and/or a line has to be drawn ...

Over time and still as we speak, these freaks have managed to make Jimmy Carter out to be a complete and total stooge, while verging on sculpting Reagan's face on Mount Rushmore ... Howard Dean has somehow been turned into a complete maniac ... Gore is arrogant because he said he created the internet ...

A line has to be drawn, and this thing is well over it ... Despite the complete difference from reality, they already have staked the flag as the party that is "tough on terrorism" while portraying the democrats as all but terrorists themselves ... This IS an important battle, cause these freaks have gotten away with FAR too much of this nonsense as is ...

[rooboy]

5. Not enough nudity. n/t

[rinsd]

10. !!!

:spray:

[Horse with no Name]

6. I have no problem with the movie

I have a problem with them trying to say this was based on fact--when it was not.
I love the movie Peter Pan. I watch it regularly with my granddaughter.
However, I would be upset if the school told her it was reality.

[Avalux]

7. It's the school distrubution aspect I am most concerned about.

IF this film is provided to public school districts with a study guide and presented as HISTORICAL FACT, we have a problem. I am convinced this is nothing more than the GOP's attempt to rewrite the worst tragedy in our nation's history. If they can get to the kids, they might be successful.

[Lars39]

21. Yes, it's re-writing history.

As far down the road to fascism that bushco has taken us, I've always thought that they have a 'within one generation' plan. iow, within one generation the masses will be so broken and re-educated that the truth will be a wispy thing that no one will be able to pursue. It is literally our children's future that we're fighting for. :(

[Avalux]

Yes - and we have to make sure it doesn't happen.

1984. It CAN happen - future generations may never know the facts, just what they've been told by the government.

[Lars39]

36. The Children's Story, by James Clavell

really highlights how easy it is to indoctrinate children. :(

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440204682?v=glance

[The2ndWheel]

38. Well, modern history

Like I said, why this movie? Because of the election? Aren't the people wising up though? Every poll says they are.

Historical fact has been re-written countless times. Fixing this one thing won't do much in the big picture.

[Avalux]

44. So we should do nothing then.

Allow the film to be shown in our schools so that children will be brainwashed to believe the Clinton Administration was responsible for 9/11 and that Bush and his cronies aren't at fault. Why - Bush was the best president ever!

NO WAY.

I will do everything one person can do, even if it means nothing. I have to.

[MessiahRp]

48. Wrong answer

Do I think we need to correct other historical inaccuracies, most certainly. I am reading a very good book on it as we speak (Lies My Teacher Told Me by James W. Loewen).

This is one we can stop NOW. I'm not saying other inaccuracies don't need correction but this one is current and will brainwash our children into believing the moral superiority of a war mongering philosophy that will affect many generations to come.

That to me is why this needs to be stopped.

Rp

[AndyA]

8. Don't you think that doing nothing would be an acknowledgment of

the contents of the movie? Wouldn't some see it as proof that the "facts" presented aren't disputed? People who have seen the movie or have knowledge of its contents say that many of the facts presented are 180 degrees from the truth. The producers have provided advance copies only to right wing entities, and have denied copies to Clinton, Albright, and others depicted in the movie. Why? What are they hiding?

To air something like this over American airwaves so close to an election is a blatant attempt to influence votes and make the Democrats look bad. I, for one, am fed up with it.

Don't roll over and take this shit lying down. Fight back! Do what you can to stop the destruction of democracy in America.

ABC has no business airing this tripe, they know it, but are going to do it anyway. They will have to pay the price for their foolishness.

[The2ndWheel]

20. I didn't say do nothing, nt

[AndyA]

55. From the tone of your post, you seemed resigned to the fact that it

will air, and it won't make any difference. I guess I assumed from that that you were not going to do anything to attempt to stop it, or clarify that it isn't based on facts.

Not meant to insult or attack, I just think everything we do at this point is more important than at any other time, and I think this movie needs to be stopped cold in its tracks. Most people will not realize it isn't factual, and will accept the information provided at face value.

GOP +1
DEMS -1

Not a good thing with critical elections so close.

Sorry for assuming you were giving up.

[w4rma]

9. I want no more myths. (nt)

[LynneSin]

11. It's called the Fairness Doctorine

And slapping a disclaimer I don't think is enough. I think they should invite those involved with the 9/11 to discuss, debate and point out the fucking obvious about how this clearly has nothing to do with anything on 9/11 but fictious lies created by right-wing bloggers

[wryter2000]

25. I agree 100%

If we still had the fairness doctrine, I think the thing would blow up in their faces (esp. if someone with cojones did our reply). Too many people are going to see the thing -- no commercials, "public service" -- and think it's fact.

[hedgehog]

12. It's the presentation of fiction as fact that's the problem.

Ronald Reagan was not the only person to mistake something he saw on a movie screen for something he saw in real life. Once people see a dramatization,they tend to remember that dramatization as something that really happened.

[The2ndWheel]

24. Fair enough

But that happens pretty much every hour of every day.

[wryter2000]

27. Yup

There are still people who think Hannibal Lecter got away, and they vote.

[mnhtnbb]

58. Bingo! And the attempt to indoctrinate kids with this propaganda

[MsAnthropy]

13. Because half this country is too dumb to distinguish

between fact and fiction and believe everything their television tells them.

Compare Disney's treatment of this movie and their refusal to distribute Michael Moore's movie. There's a double standard there.

[The2ndWheel]

28. So why is this different than Tuesday? nt

[Nite Owl]

14. I would still be upset if

they were just showing the movie but it is an optional thing to watch it and it is on opposite other programming. The part that upsets me the most is the participation of Scholastic, the way that they are getting this information out into the schools. Sure they say that there will be discussion but how many teachers and students will even know what the real facts are to refute them. It's a propaganda, Nazi like technique to twist the minds of our kids. It's blatant. They say it's a drama, they took artistic liberties etc., then why have a teaching guide?
It won't change the media? Maybe, maybe not but it sure won't change is we don't respond to what they do. As for myself I have to know that I'm not going to sit by silently and just let it happen. Win or lose I'm going to try.

[MissB]

16. And it doesn't strike you as odd that there are no commercials

during the showing of this "docudrama"? When was the last time a network produced a miniseries or a program of any sort and ran it without the support of sponsors?

Yeah, it bugs the hell out of me. Smacks not only of propoganda, but of something much more sinister.

[grytpype]

17. It lets us raise the issue of who was responsible for 9/11.

This mockudrama is an attempt to re-write history and make Clinton responsible.

I don't mind at all that we are mobilized to set the record straight and talk about Bush's incompetence.

[wryter2000]

31. We may be mobilized

But we're not going to be given a forum in which to counteract the lies. What do you bet that clips from the movie get promoed on the ABC news over the weekend?

[The Stranger]

18. And this question from a poster called "NoMoreMyths."

Is this question being asked in jest?

[The2ndWheel]

34. I want to know why some people

want it pulled. Counter the myth with truth, not by not allowing people to watch it.

The media controls the message, and who gets to speak their mind. I know. Well, stop playing on their field. But all there is is mass communication today. Well, have to change the game then, or else we will always lose.

[OwnedByFerrets]

19. Mainly because they are using

the 911 Commision report in the advertising, as well as in the disclaimer. That gives it credence to the uninformed, where it should have NONE because the 911 commision didnt come to the conclusions that are used in the movie.
And, if it is fiction, (and it is) ABC should not be making profit from 911. JMHO

[never_get_over_it]

22. I think it is pretty simple really

this will air about 7 weeks before an extremely important election. It makes Bill Clinton and the Dems look bad and the freak in chief look good. Millions will watch it that will not get the message that much of it is not true or misleading - they won't read the disclaimers - why would anyone think that "they" make up this crap - we can try as hard as we like to get the correct message out there but we will not be able to reach as many as this mini series - and therefore this could have a devastating impact on the election You wait you will be hearing people stating what they see in this thing as fact.

Also its long past time we fight back and fight back BIG - I'm sick of this bias "liberal" oh I mean right wing corporate media enabling these criminals to get away with murder.

[sinkingfeeling]

23. Since we all know how much Americans don't read books and that TV

has become the 'TRUTH' on any subject, I want it pulled or this is how 'history' will be taught from this day forward. This story of Clinton 'letting bin Laden' go will be taught in our schools and become FACT.

[warrens]

26. Not pulled, corrected

If a left-wing film with provable falsehoods was about to air, the wingnuts would have it pulled or reedited in a heartbeat. Just asking for the same.

[LA lady]

29. I am concerned

I think we are just drawing attention to it at this point and will cause more to watch it than would have previously....

[Protagoras]

30. If everyone weren't screaming about it

no one would be watching it. As it is, ABC is getting free ads all over every cable channel due to the controversy.

In the end I'm not censoring it. I am for a brief and to the point release from Clinton saying "This is a fabrication, and this is the person who wrote this piece of tripe." Beyond that ABC is clearly shilling in an epic way here. Who else releases crap like this 60 days before a major election. But perhaps this isn't even about Clinton. Perhaps it's about control of the FCC. Which if the Democrats will will be changing some in the not so distant future.

Seems to me we're directing our anger at the face of OZ up on the screen rather than the man behind the curtain. Time to look back there instead.

[MADem]

32. Let's pretend the Constitution has a section that says Jesus is Lord

Sheesh!!!!!

Here is the problem, in a simple NUTSHELL: An official government document, the 911 Commission Report, is touted as the AUTHORITATIVE source for this fiction. The problem is, the shit they made up is not only NOT IN the report, even the bullshit they call "composites" does NOT reflect the essence of the document.

To further add insult to injury, the neocon television network has paired with SCHOLASTIC to shove this tripe down the throats of America's children in organized fashion.

It's called LYING. FICTION. FAKE. That's why it isn't OK.

Suggesting that because propaganda has slipped by in the past is a reason or excuse for it to happen in future is a lame argument. One should strive for the HIGHEST standard, not the lowest.

[Breeze54]

33. Because it's ABC shilling for the pigs in an election year! n/t

[MessiahRp]

35. This does not just affect Adult Sheep

This information is being sent to our children's schools with "teaching materials" to try to misinform and brainwash our children into believing Bush is a hero and that the neoconservative doctrine of endless war is righteous. The materials blame every Middle Eastern country except Saudi Arabia for 9/11 and in doing so teaches our children to hate Arabs and Muslims.

THAT is why we need to stop this now.

Rp

[The2ndWheel]

40. How about you teach your kid what happened then, nt

[MessiahRp]

46. What a small minded answer

Yes, I might be able to teach my child the truth... but other parents who aren't as politically active or that don't care either way will allow their children to be propagandized to believe a certain way.

They in turn will be the next generation or wave of neoconservatives that take control of our country... thus continuing this endless war. As taught to them to be the correct line of thinking by our school system.

If you can't see further down the line than what's in front of your own face then you need to open your eyes wider.

Rp

[WinkyDink]

37. ARE YOU NOT AWARE IT HAS BEEN SENT TO SCHOOLS

to be taught as "history"??

[The2ndWheel]

41. Have you noticed

many things taught in history class is full of crap? Or not even mentioned?

[Shakespeare]

47. Oh, right. The "it happens all the time, so why fight it" excuse.

Uh, no thanks. How about we fight like hell for a change to stop an ACTIVE campaign to lie to the American people and revise history. It's much easier to do so now than, say, decades from now when--in that "mission accomplished" kind of way--it's accepted as fact.

[sandrakae]

39. Because it is being used to sway our election.

I

[Coexist]

42. bingo.

[stanwyck]

43. I expect better from a major network like ABC

this kind of propaganda is usually marginalized by distribution through less lofty means...like Pat Robertson's network.
Think of all the solid journalists who have worked for ABC over the years. This must hurt to have such junk aired on their network. And it's clearly for partisan purposes.
The neocons are throwing huge amounts of money everywhere. They have their goon squads on campus, students who appear to be just spontaneously spreading the joy of the GOP, when, in fact, they're on the payroll.
We've suffered Swiftboat Liars impugning veterans. (Again, these guys are paid.}And Jeff Gannon getting press credentials to ask his scripted "questions" while seasoned Washington correspondents have to cool their heels outside.
The lies are taking over. We can laugh at hate-radio. But Katie Couric is hosting Limbaugh over at CBS. And now hate-radio is becoming ABC movie of the week.
We have to stand up against this poison before our country is too sick to recover.

[stepnw1f]

49. Bullshit! Boycott Disney and ABC (nt)

[Bridget Burke]

50. Many of us do not want the movie "pulled specifically".....

But we would like alternative views (closer to the truth) presented. And we'd like equal time for "the other side."

Apparently you want to do NOTHING.

(Yes, it's just you.)

[truebrit71]

53. It is presented as fact when it is actually based on fantasy...

..I certainly won't be watching it, but there are more than enough mouth-breathers that will, and buy it hook, line and sinker...

And not for nothing, but if the right-wing can get CBS to cave and pull their movie about Ronnie Depends Raygun, then A(lways)B(e)C(ompliant) should be made to pull this drivel too...

[Lindacooks]

54. I want it pulled because I am sick to death of repuke lies.

And I'm sick to death of them getting away with it.

And many stupid sheeple remember things from movies that they don't remember from the news. This mockudrama is pure fiction, written by and for the Bush administration, and that makes me FURIOUS.

We have to fight to get our country back. This is just one way to do that.

[NeedleCast]

57. Well Said

n/t.

[Catherine Vincent]

59. I think it should be aired.

But on the Fantasy Channel. Or maybe the Sci-Fi channel. :)

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. disagree

This movie purports to tell the story of 9-11 based on the Kean report. It does it non-factually. Even today, 65% of Republicans believe that Saddam was behind 9-11 because they heard it somewhere and no amount of new facts will change their viewpoint.

It's important for the future of our democracy to stop lies from being disseminated before they become conventional wisdom.

[newspeak]

61. I want it pulled from the schools

I don't want my grandchildren's mind being so polluted by this many lies!!!! All they do is put a halo on * and they could saint him!!! Believe me, he's no saint and I don't want my grandkids thinking he's one. He and his greedy compatriots have done so much damage to this country and my grandchildren will be paying for it!!!! This is an attempt to put lipstick on a pig--unfortunately, it's still a pig!!!!

[Imagevision]

63. It's promoted as factual while stating it's only a dramatization

Why doesn't ABC point out the facts that the 9-11 commission was not allowed to publish it's findings until after the 2004 election!!

[question everything]

65. No pulling. but do not express it as a "documentary."

Every single book and movie has a disclaimer that the events and people and dialogs originated in the fertile imagination of the author; that any resemblance to actual people and events is strictly coincidental.

They should have the same thing.. and then show it.