"I think history will show him to be the worst president since Grant"

[CatWoman]

War turns southern women away from GOP

MACON, Ga. - President Bush's once-solid relationship with Southern women is on the rocks. "I think history will show him to be the worst president since Ulysses S. Grant," said Barbara Knight, a self-described Republican since birth and the mother of three. "He's been an embarrassment." In the heart of Dixie, comparisons to Grant, a symbol of the Union, is the worst sort of insult, especially from a Macon woman who voted for Bush in 2000 but turned away in 2004.

In recent years, Southern women have been some of Bush's biggest fans, defying the traditional gender gap in which women have preferred Democrats to Republicans. Bush secured a second term due in large part to support from 54 percent of Southern female voters while women nationally favored Democrat John Kerry, 51-48 percent.

"In 2004, you saw an utter collapse of the gender gap in the South," said Karen Kaufmann, a professor of government at the University of Maryland who has studied women's voting patterns. White Southern women liked Bush because "he spoke their religion and he spoke their values."

Now, anger over the Iraq war and frustration with the country's direction have taken a toll on the president's popularity and stirred dissatisfaction with the Republican-held Congress.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060907/ap_on_re_us/southern_women

[Poiuyt]

1. She's being kind

[Drum]

2. Too bad.

I've heard that even with many shortcomings, Grant was an intelligent man, so this comparison is even unfair to him. :(

[CatWoman]

3. Ah

but he was also a roaring drunk :)

[Drum]

10. Nevertheless,

I've heard that Grant was a smart guy, and a "war president" that actually did his military gig, bigtime.

[CatWoman]

11. Of course I agree with you

What brought Grant down as a president was his dastardly brother and war profiteering cabinet members.

Grant was a brilliant man, in uniform and out.

[MADem]

12. Some would argue with roaring...binge drinker, perhaps

http://american-presidents.blogspot.com/2006/02/and-ulysses-s-grant-helped-preserve.html

Interesting discussion at link above.

Shelby Foote, The Civil War, vol. -2, pg. 117: "The evidence is conflicting. Some said the general never touched a drop, others declared that he was seldom sober; while still others had him pegged as a spree drinker." There are quotes and evidence around it that go both ways. But that's a good place to get both sides of the story. So it sounds like you could go either way depending on the evidence you used - hence Modern Drunkard probably just uses the bad.

I have always heard that he was worst when Julia wasn't around and if she was around, he didn't drink. "It was widely believed that her husband, especially during his career as a soldier, was much too fond of whiskey, and that the cure consisted of bring Mrs. Grant to camp; in her presence, it was held, he instantly became a teetotaler." (introduction to the memoiors of Julia Grant which was written by Bruce Catton, pg. 1) Julia Grant actually was in his various camps regularly, so he was probably only at his worst if she hadn't been there in awhile.

.......After examining a large portion of the historical notes on the subject, the prudent approach would be to admit that Grant drank. One can point to two points in time in particular where trying to portray Grant as innocent stretches credulity.

The first was the period of time during which Grant 'voluntarily' resigned his commission. The second is the infamous "Yazoo River Bender".

Grant's reputation was attacked from all sides, and alcohol was the convenient excuse. Many southern sympathizing newspaper editors and reporters all over the country wrote scathing articles attacking Grant with charges of alcoholism drinking and every other foul charge they could dream up. Grant was also attacked by many in political circles who attacked Grant in hopes of further the careers of their own proteges in an attempt to further their own careers. In a lot of ways this actually worked in his favor in that the subject of whether or not Grant had a drinking problem kept his detractors from fabricating other charges which might have harmed him much worse.

By definition, Grant was definitely not an alcoholic. There is plenty of evidence that he was in no way addicted, and would spend months and years at a time without touching a drop. The fact that Grant was never seen drinking during times of crisis or when he was actively working speaks volumes about his approach to alcohol. .........

[fudge stripe cookays]

13. Well, if my wife...

looked like Julia Grant, I'd probably drink too.

I'm just sayin....
fsc

[MADem]

18. Well, apparently, she had secret, perhaps unseen charms to SOOTHE the man

He only hopped OFF the wagon when she WASN'T around...so something must have kept him under sufficient a spell to forswear the bottle!

http://civilwartalk.com.nyud.net:8090/cwt_alt/resources/women/images/julia_dent_grant.jpg

http://www.lkwdpl.org.nyud.net:8090/wihohio/gran-jul.jpg

[fudge stripe cookays]

27. On second thought...

she's not that bad. I'm confusing her with the really horsefaced-looking woman. I'm trying to remember now who it must have been if it wasn't her.

Flummoxed....
fsc

[pitohui]

37. well it speaks volumes about the naivete of that writer

Grant was never seen drinking during times of crisis or when he was actively working speaks volumes about his approach to alcohol. .........


yeah, functional alcoholics are good at that, but his wife wasn't fooled, i guarantee it

[Virginia Dare]

15. At least he could hold his booze...

unlike some Presidents we know.

and I think there are some historians out there who dispute that characterization of him.

;-)

[CatWoman]

16. Virginia,

are you a Virginian, or is your name just a play on words?

Wasn't Virginia Dare the first child born to the lost colony of Roanoke?

BTW, I'm from Portsmouth. :hi:

[Virginia Dare]

17. Yes, I'm from Virginia...

(Fairfax area) that's who she was, I've always been fascinated by her story.

:hi:

[TheFriedPiper]

6. Dont forget, in places like Macon, Georgia, the Civil War is still on

Education is not a high priority in rural Georgia.

That's one of the main reasons I don't go outside I-285 (Atlanta Perimeter Highway) except when I have no choice.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

22. the Civil War is still on, aye?

if that is indeed your perception, we are glad you stay inside the perimeter. What an ignorant thing to say...by the way, how are those inner city ATL schools doing anyway?

sP

[calico1]

23. It's unfair but remember this is a

Southern woman. Grant was a Northern General in the civil war. Comparing Bush to anyone associated with the North in the civil war is meant as the worst of insults.

[CollegeDUer]

4. Actually as a Georgian I can tell you

Seeing some of those confederate-flag wearing people, to see some of them compare Bush to the dreaded Union -- well, Bush MUST be in some deep shit now.

[CatWoman]

7. bwahahaha

speaking of which, you should see them at the Stone Mountain laser show on the 4th of July.

Mirrors a Klan rally :)

[CollegeDUer]

25. I've never been on the Fourth

I used to go with my family a lot. But we never went at that time because we figured it would be crazy.

[MADem]

5. Well, Grant was only dreadful from the perspective of the losers

I'd put him in Pierce territory, and that's appropriate, seeing as they are related.

The apple doesn't fall far, and all that....

That said, who cares, so long as it costs the Monkey some serious votes.

I can't fathom those women voting for the fake putz in the first place, though. Talk about drinking the KoolAid...

[asjr]

20. I lived in GA for a number of years, during the

Lester Maddox years and I had hoped things would change, but I guess not. Sometimes I think GWB is Maddox reincarnated. Maddox was a bully, racist and many other bad things, but this was just after the civil rights movement and he was a buddy to that other southern racist in Alabama. Southern bible belt women (especially older ones) have been frightened by religion. They also try to outdo one another in piety. They can be smug, arrogant and always try to make others feel they are better Christians than their neighbors. It seems to be a status thing. And before any Southerners become angry with me, let me say I was born and raised in Tennessee and GO VOLS!

[Zomby Woof]

21. You are exactly correct

My grandmother is from Tennessee, and when she admitted to one of her Church Lady-type friends that she voted for Gore, this 'friend' later called her up and accused her of not being a "real Christian" because she didn't vote for Bush. My grandmother stood by her contempt for Bush and hung up the phone on her fake-christian colleague.

As a California native who grew up in Tennessee, I also say GO VOLS! (and GO BRUINS! too, lol) :hi:

[asjr]

24. Your grandmother knows exactly what

I am talking about! Good for her.

[renate]

8. the story's on CNN's front page, too

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/07/southern.women.ap/index.html

:woohoo:

By the way, wow is this woman STUPID:

"There are some people, and I'm one of them, that believe George Bush was placed where he is by the Lord," Tomanio said. "I don't care how he governs, I will support him. I'm a Republican through and through."

(edited to add link)

[newspeak]

33. so, basically

it sounds like this woman believes in "divine right of kings." Maybe she should consider moving to a country that is governed by a monarchy.

[Ganja Ninja]

9. Worst President EVER!

Grant had to deal with a nation recovering from civil war. W was handed over power to a nation that was at it's zenith. We had a bright future in 2001 and then he came along.

[liberal N proud]

14. I wouldn't put Grant in any category with this SOB

I have in the past compared his policies to that of Hoover, but that isn't even fair to Hoover anymore.

This man relates more to the communist leaders than any of the free world, we should be looking to those countries to see what to expect from this pack of criminals. Then we need to move to stop him.

[tnlefty]

19. Did you happen to notice where the "stalwart supporter" quoted is?

Clydeen Tomanio, according to this article, is from the thriving megapolis of Chickamauga - surprise, surprise, NOT! Although they have the town listed as being in the mountains, which it isn't, so I can only hope the article's author confused Chickamauga with one of the smaller communities in the area.

Anyway, Way to come in there Clydeen...do the town proud as the home of still crazed, delusional nitwits!!!

[SaveElmer]

26. I know this is from a southerner...

But there have been far worse Presidents than Grant, whose Presidency cannot be termed a glowing success, but who did have many notable achievments. And Grant can be said to be the first President to truly fight for civil rights for African Americans...

To my mind, Coolidge, Hoover, Reagan, Bush I and II in the twentieth century were worse than Grant

[meldroc]

28. I'd compare Bush's presidency to that of James Buchanan.

Buchanan was the President right before Lincoln, and basically created the mess that Lincoln had to deal with during his presidency. Many historians consider Buchanan to be the worst president in history (though Bush seems to be about to take the crown from him...) During his term, the economy was a mess, Buchanan and the Democrats (the Democratic party was quite messed up then - being in favor of slavery & dominated in part by the South) cut taxes, threw the government into a frenzy of deficit spending (sound familiar?), and caused the economy to tailspin further. His policies ended up splitting the Democratic party, when the Southerners walked out of the Democratic national convention, and Buchanan basically did nothing when South Carolina seceded from the Union. As a result, the Republican candidate, Lincoln got elected, despite being extremely unpopular, and the country soon split apart and began the Civil War. Some historians considered Buchanan's actions to be borderline-treasonous.

Well, Bush hasn't quite left the country in civil war, but we still have two years left...

[Virginia Dare]

31. and there has been speculation about Buchanan...

that he was a homosexual, sound familiar?

[pitohui]

39. as far as i know

buchanan was gay as a jay? will have to look at my references sometimes

[Virginia Dare]

32. delete--dupe

[lpbk2713]

29. How true, how true.

And a lot of people in the South resent this New England boy's phony 'Texas Cowboy' routine as well.

[Jack Rabbit]

30. That's an insult to Grant.

[kskiska]

34. Grant was a Republican who served two terms

and after a triumphant world tour, tried for a third, but due to partisan politics, wasn't nominated.

He was a very honorable man, but put too much trust in his appointees. He was a terrific general, but not a good politician. However, he dealt well with Reconstruction, civil rights, and gave us our first National Park, Yellowstone.

His drinking seemed to be defined during periods of isolation, serving on lonely military outposts and distanced from his family. I don't believe he drank later in life, especially during his White House years.

After office, he remained an extremely popular president. He moved to NYC and went broke after forming a partnership in a disreputable Wall Street at the behest of his son. He was forced to sell most of his Civil War mementos. Mark Twain persuaded him to publish his memoirs, which were tremendously successful and provided for his family after his death from throat cancer in 1885.

Just read an account of his funeral to understand Grant's popularity:

(snip)

As Ulysses S. Grant's funeral procession made its way through New York City on August 8, 1885, it seemed everyone in the city was watching. Crowds packed every square inch of available viewing space on the ground, and buildings were draped in black in Grant's honor.

The column of mourners who accompanied Grant was seven miles long. Among those mourners were three United States presidents. If old enemies from the Civil War carried grudges, they set them aside. Grant's pallbearers were Generals William Tecumseh Sherman and Philip Sheridan, who had fought for the Union, and Simon Bolivar Buckner and Joseph Johnston, who had fought for the Confederacy. Union and Confederate officers in the procession rode together in the same carriages.

more…
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/grant/peopleevents/e_funeral.html

[Drum]

35. That's no Bush you're talking about, there.........n/t

[pitohui]

36. worst president ever

as another poster said, crap, at least grant could kinda sorta hold his booze

* is an embarrassment to the human race

[Cobalt-60]

40. Agreed

The United States was able to defend itself when Grant left office.

[AzDar]

42. Absolutely correct ! Let's not forget what Mr. Lincoln said of Grant

when told of his drunkenness: "Find out what he's drinking, and send a case to ALL my Generals"..
Bush is a disaster for this Country on a level never before seen, imnsho:
He seems to be trying to willfully destroy it.

[WinkyDink]

38. Hey, Grant is considered a SUPERB autobiographer.

AS IF Little Boots can construct his own sentences.

[Swamp Rat]

41. How about the worst emperor since Caligula...