All network TV sucks ass.

[porphyrian]

I can't believe how many people insist on promoting it here.

[Beaverhausen]

1. No it doesn't

Ever watch West Wing?

[porphyrian]

3. Nope, I'll wait and rent it on DVD.

The shows are simply bait to force you to watch commercials according to their schedule. All network TV sucks ass.

[Howardx]

5. i wouldnt be surprised

if you could bittorrent it already what with all those "review" copies out there

[porphyrian]

8. That's probably true. Actually, I'm sure it is.

You can see most movies before they open, if you know where to look. But, if it's as cool as I've heard, I'd prefer to kick them a buck or two to support the cause.

[Rosco T.]

24. That's why I love my TiVo....

I watch what I want, when I want, without their smegging commericals.

[NYCGirl]

19. IMO, everything from Aaron Sorkin is well worth watching. NT

[porphyrian]

23. I had to look him up, but, yeah, he seems pretty good. - n/t

[NYCGirl]

25. Best TV writer since Paddy Chayevsky, IMO.

[porphyrian]

27. I love Altered States and Network. - n/t

[Webster Green]

2. I haven't seen much promoting here...

Some discussions and rants, but promotion?

Links are quite popular on the Internets.

It's a series of tubes.

[porphyrian]

4. Every time you repeat a brand name, you're advertising it.

People don't seem to understand this basic fact of advertising. I guess that's why it works.

[Webster Green]

7. Sure, but not mentioning names ends any discussion...

I don't watch much of it. I think we should have us a little revolution and make them our first target.

[porphyrian]

9. That's not entirely true.

You know what people mean when they say "Faux News" or "that mouse-ear megacorporation." Names aren't necessary for conversation unless the people involved are dense or lazy.

I'd say you aren't the first one to think that second thought, however.

[Webster Green]

20. I watch maybe three shows regularly

Bill Maher's show, The Daily Show, Colbert's show if I can stay awake...
(except for football season, of course)

I wish Comcast had an ala carte menu, cuz I'm paying big bucks just to watch HBO once in a while.

800 channels of crap!

[porphyrian]

26. Yeah, cable "bundling" is another issue.

As is the fact that they haven't been deemed a monopoly yet.

[Egnever]

6. So turn it off

Problem solved

[porphyrian]

10. I have to block at least three threads every time I look at GD.

Most of them are redundant and unnecessary. I'm trying to figure out if people don't understand they're promoting the brands they're complaining about or if they're doing it intentionally.

[Beaverhausen]

12. This is DU and we are discussing an upcoming movie

how are WE promoting BRANDS to anyone?

[porphyrian]

28. Every time you repeat a brand name, you are promoting it.

Brands are memes. They replicate. But, they require a host to do so. If you replicate a brand, you are promoting it.

Discussing an upcoming movie requires a single thread. Maybe fifty. However, it does not require a 90% domination of General Discussion in multiple redundant threads for a week. At that point, you are simply advertising for the network for free, and at our expense. I don't understand why you don't get it.

[Beaverhausen]

32. This is DU - we all know why we are discussing this film & the brand name

I doubt anyone here will watch the film just because there are 50 threads about it. We are (mostly) a lot more intelligent than that.

get it?

[porphyrian]

34. I get that you don't.

And I doubt that you will.

[Beaverhausen]

35. I get that you are obsessed

so turn off your TV and ignore these threads. Is that so hard?

[porphyrian]

36. I have and I am, but they continue to pop up like weeds.

Look, do whatever the fuck you want, I don't give a shit. I'm simply trying to point out what people obviously don't understand about advertising and memetics, and I'm coming to realize that it's further over the heads of some than I first assumed. My bad.

[NeedleCast]

39. Ahhh Yes

The open-mindedness of the "I'm smarter than you stupid, odious masses" argument. Always convincing!

I'm off to get a Snickers.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NeedleCast]

45. It appears

that you are very good at dishing out the insults.

Taking them...not so much.

I think you'd feel better if you had an Oreo.

[porphyrian]

47. Believe whatever you need to.

You still don't realize that you are helping me.

[NeedleCast]

14. Exactly

People have a right to make shows, even if you think they're crappy. You have the right to think they're crappy. At the end of the day though, within some limits, networks and cable *should* be able to show what they want whether it's a fictional 9/11 crockumentary, Everyone Loves Raymond, or every single Simpsons episode ever made back-to-back (which I'd watch).

[NeedleCast]

11. I like House...

...and Bones (even if it is just X-files 2.0)

[porphyrian]

15. The shows are simply advertisements for commercials.

They get you to turn on your TV so the network can assault you with advertising you are most likely paying them to watch. You're better off renting the season on DVD a couple of months later.

I've only seen House a couple of times, and I liked it, too, until about the second commercial break when I turned the thing off before I put a foot through it.

[NeedleCast]

16. Tivo

Havn't seen a commerical I didn't want to in about 18 months (speaking strictly on TV of course). About the only thing I don't TiVO anymore is sports events.

Even then, I don't consider the advertising an assault. You watch the ads, you decide if you really need a new X-terra or not, and you move on.

[porphyrian]

21. That's what lots of people think.

And that's why the advertising industry is a multi-million dollar business annually. If you ask most people, they'll say they don't pay attention to commercials or that they don't work. Were that true, they would no longer exist in their current form. The fact is that they do work on anyone who views them, whether you realize it or not. How? By establishing the brand in the mind of the viewers. It doesn't matter if you decide to buy a new "X-terra" or not, you are propagating its existance by repeating it (as I just have, too). Their advertising was so successful that you chose it as your example, and it will be read by everyone who reads this, and on and on and on. It doesn't even matter if you know what it is, because you'll ask about it if you don't, thus spreading it to another, or reinforcing it in the mind of someone who does know as something people ask about.

[NeedleCast]

31. What's your point then?

That all advertising is bad? That name brands are bad? That by mentioning X-terra I have somehow done something wrong?

If I'm influenced by advertising, is that neccissarily a bad thing?



COCA-COLA!

*Ducks*

[porphyrian]

33. What do you think?

You find my position pointless, so does it matter how I answer?

What advertising is good? For who?

Are name brands good?

Have you done something right in promoting a brand?

Is it necessarily a good thing that you're influenced by advertising?

[NeedleCast]

38. Didn't answer my questions but

I'll answer yours.

I don't know that advertising is good. I don't think it's bad. It's (usually) good for the companies who create it.

Re: Brand Names. Not good or bad, but from what I've seen you post on the subject, you think it's bad. I don't think its either. I think people recognize a brand name and "know what they're going to get" when they buy one.

Again, I don't think it's neccissarily bad that I or others am influenced by advertising. Do you?

[porphyrian]

43. Why should I answer you if you think my position is pointless?

Wouldn't that make my answer pointless? Or are you really considering that my answers might change your mind?

[NeedleCast]

46. I don't believe

I've ever said that I think your position is pointless. I asked why you feel name brands and advertising are bad. You've yet to answer, although it's obvious you feel quite strongly about it. I am curious as to why you feel this way, even if I end up disagreeing with they why.

[porphyrian]

48. OK, if you sincerely want to know...

I believe that corporations have only one interest in mind - generating profit for their stock holders. Everything beyond that is simply a means to that end. The advertising industry consists of corporations designed to make money by promoting other corporations. The latest trend in advertising is "branding," where instead of promoting specific products or services, a representation of the corporation that provides the service or product, a "brand," is promoted. The success of a brand is in how broadly and well it is recognized, not so much in how effective its products or services are. Research advertising a little if you're really interested, it's fascinating to me.

I didn't say that name brands and advertising are bad, you simply misunderstood what I've said. So, I can't really answer that.

[NeedleCast]

49. See

we can get along if you answer the questions I pose instead of belittling me and I think you're completely right about corporations. However, I think they have to be taken individually. Some corporations are parasitic, feed off their workers and do very little "good" for the world. Some are quite philanthropic, give back to the community and treat their workers with respect/provide a good work environment.

As far as to why I thought you thought name brands/advertising were bad...don't you think it can be inferred from the title of the thread?

All network TV sucks ass - because there are advertisments on it - thus advertising must be bad.

[porphyrian]

52. Your condescending to me is somehow better?

Fuck you.

[gratuitous]

13. And yet . . .

A lot of people who fill out ballots watch the teevee and form their opinions based on what they see and hear. Incredible, I know, but there it is. And if the teevee is going to be beamed into hundreds of millions of homes with a blatantly factually false depiction of a story that could affect how some of those millions of voters will decide how to vote, it seems to be just plain good citizenship to call a broadcast network to account for that falsehood. After all, ABC is broadcasting on an airwave that belongs to the public -- that is, you and me.

[porphyrian]

17. Address the propaganda, but don't promote the brand.

It's not that hard to get if you think about it. You can debunk propaganda without promoting the brand responsible. Say, with about a thousand less redundant posts blasting the brand name through GD. The means are as important as the ends.

[gratuitous]

37. Hanh?

How do you "address the propaganda" without identifying its source? If, as you so cavalierly state, all network broadcasting sucks ass, how do you address specifics? Or is your point that everyone, everywhere should just shut off his or her television? Because if that's your position, then you are little more than a crank, and will be dismissed. If you have a reasonable point to make, it would greatly serve your purpose to make it rather than abusing the people who tend to agree with you.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NeedleCast]

50. On No

I agree with you again, and have said so in other threads on this topic. The ABC/9-11 threads are flying faster and more furiously than I can keep up with. Hehe, I got sniped at quite a little bit earlier today for daring to say that this is only feeding the ABC hype machine.

99.9% of the population will have forgotten about this show in a few days...two weeks at the most, yet its spawned more threads in a day than just about anything I've seen in my months of lurking around here.

[OzarkDem]

18. But the airwaves belongs to us, the public

and we need to push harder to return accountability and fairness to the system.

[porphyrian]

29. Yes, let's take back the FCC.

The way to do it is not to blast network brands we disagree with all over GD for a week.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Your Opinion, And You're Entitled To It. Many Others Have Their Own

opinion, however, that is in disagreement with yours. But since like or dislike of network tv is a personal opinion, it is equally valid for you to think it sucks or someone else to say it doesn't.

[porphyrian]

30. Thanks for that nothing of a post.

It's refreshing to have the obvious pointed out unnecessarily, but at least you kicked my thread in doing so.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. It Was In Response To This Nothing Of A Thread.

You stated your personal opinion on the subject of tv. Yipee! Well some share that opinion and many others have quite different opinions. Some like tv, some don't. Some don't mind commercials, some do.

You don't like tv. You let us know it. Some of us let you know we do like tv. All of our opinions are equal since the topic of liking tv or not is a personal issue with no more legitimacy to one side than the other. That means that you have zero right to criticize others for enjoying tv, as they have no right to criticize you for not liking it. To each their own opinion.

I like tv just fine. You don't. That's ok, I couldn't care less if you do or don't like it and you shouldn't care less whether I or someone else does or doesn't. Again, to each their own. :hi:

[porphyrian]

53. You'd be right if this was entirely about opinions about TV.

However, I used a misleading header intentionally to bait responses so that I could address the related topic of unnecessarily promoting brands, such as certain TV networks, with which people purport to disagree. I find it exceedingly ironic that the most apparently hated brands are the ones which receive the greatest number of redundant posts here in GD, and I'm disturbed that so many are unaware of how this is promotional.

Actually, I expected something more scathing from you, given our past parlance. You aren't getting soft or anything are you?

[sandnsea]

42. Generally I agree

Quite often getting wrapped up in a nothing controversy does more to blow oxygen on to the fire than to help solve a problem. But in the case of this 'docu-drama', I think it's right to fight it with everything possible. It's funny that people will believe what's in a movie more than reported news, but it's true. Otherwise, unless one was to make a truly orchestrated and long term boycott effort, the more you blather about them the more power you give them, I would agree with that.

[porphyrian]

44. It's rare and nice when we agree.

;)