Is it possible that The Path to 9/11 isn't really a problem?

[RockHardCore]

Honestly?
How many people are actually going to watch it?
How many people that watch it are actually going to have their minds changed by it?
Maybe, since this is all so deceitful, this will actually help the voices of those who seem to have some decent evidence that 9/11 could have been an inside job?

What do y'all think? I know the hornets' nest is pretty stirred up!

[woodsprite]

1. For me, the show wouldn't be a problem, but the fact they want

to use it as an educational tool in school is DEFINITELY a problem! I spent my morning writing to educators, ed. unions, PTA reps, and Scholastic about this.

[MADem]

3. Go here--hit Scholastic where they will really HURT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2071696

[SmokingJacket]

8. Scholastic has pulled the material now.

According to firedoglake...

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/07/from-the-dept-of-were-not-going-away-so-get-used-to-it/#respond

[MADem]

16. There's stuff still out there, already distributed though--they are

'meeting to decide how to handle it.'

I'm going to start on THIS LIST OF ADVERTISERS, now: http://birdoblog.birdobot.com/disney_propaganda

Here is the list of advertisers:

Lunesta (sepracor) - [e-mail]

Healthy Choice (ConAgra)

Bayer

Benefiber (Novartis) - [e-mail]

Aveeno

Lipitor (Pfizer)

Smart Balance (No direct link: click on "Customer Service")

Office Depot

Glad Plastics

Aleve

Edward Jones Investing

Hyundai Motors - [e-mail]

I'll post more advertisers later as I watch more ABC.

UPDATE: So I just got finished watching The World According To Jim for two hours. My brain feels like mush, but it was worth it because I got a ton of new advertisers to contact. The extended list is below the fold

Chevrolet Motors

Quaker Oats

Lipton Tea

Ford Motors

Red Lobster

Kellogs

Papa Johns

Aflac

Nissan Motors

Best Buy

Wishbone Salad Dressing

Carls Jr.

Lysol

T-Mobile

Land Rover

Verizon

Mazda

Iams

Home Depot

Glade (SC Johnson Company)

Frontline Pet Care - 1-800-660-1842

Burger King - 1-800-522-1278

Wolf Camera (Ritz) - [e-mail]

[me b zola]

36. Thanks for the list

Lots of e-mails and phone calls to make!

[Karenina]

54. You GOOO, MADem!

When they opted for the Scholastic tie-in their motives were laid bare.

[MADem]

2. NO. It is NOT possible

Jesus H. Christ, put down the KoolAid.

How many times have I heard accusations that Clinton is 'too mellow' and 'too agreeable' and 'too close to Poppy Bush'...but EASYGOING BILL is BULLSHIT.

That should tell you something.

Go here, and complain to SCHOLASTIC's biggest cash cow: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2071696

[RangerSmith]

4. it's not a problem at all, really

it's pretty much like Fahrenheit 9/11... it converted no one on the right, and this will convert no one on the left.

They succeed at rallying the already faithful and that's pretty much it.

[SmokingJacket]

11. But it's on TELEVISION, not in theaters.

A lot of people who are not political will see it and assume it is the truth. THAT is the problem.

[VolcanoJen]

22. One of my wingnut coworkers is thrilled beyond belief at this film.

"See? I told you 9/11 was Clinton's fault!! See??!!??"

I'm not kidding.

[Karenina]

55. *sock puppet and his talking hands

were quite PROACTIVE in dismantling Clinton's anti-terrorism policies.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2080493

[newspeak]

33. except Fahrenheit 9/11

was not allowed on networks, like ABC--because it was before an election, no sirree can't have that political stuff on TV--but this new mock-u-drama that isn't even factual is allowed before an election. Wait, I'm getting a theme here--it's allowed on the air only if it shows * and his neo-cons in a good light-if he's shown in a bad light, it can't be aired. Pure propaganda, BS and ABC is sleezy enough to go with it!!! what a bunch of fekkin hypocrits!!!! Well we know where they stand now, don't we--if I hear any freeper blathering about the liberal media-I'll scream!!! Their blowhard masters, like Hannity, Limpballs, O'leilly have been screaming for years, over and over again, so that their sheep keep repeating such lies like zombies. So, let's repeat over and over again, shall we? The media is as liberal as their corporate masters allow them to be--so that means boys and girls-not liberal at all!!!! But, the most sinister thing I have ever heard, is feeding this shite to our youth. We don't have to watch it, but our students are forced to by making it an assignment? How Orwellian, how fascist is that? That they can admit it's part fiction, but feed it to our youth as truth? If you freepers do not find it disturbing, then you are way beyond redemption!!! How would you like your children forced to watch Fahrenheit 9/11? Or is it okay if it only goes one way? Is it only okay if they spy on others, but by God not me, I'm a good American, or it's okay to invade your home while you're away? hmm, you think that might be okay? You have an FBI agent, you have those in the film (including Clinton, you have Richard Clarke stating that this did not happen. So, is it okay to put outright lies in a film and pawn it off as truth? Or do you accept lies so easily because it validates your preconceived ideas?

[RangerSmith]

49. I wish I knew as

much about this as you do.

Don't kid yourself though... Moore was never looking to air his opinion piece on TV. it was stricly for pay.

I haven't seen this thing yet and I've been off the kool aid regardless of the party of choice for many years.

I can wait.

[Skittles]

53. BULLSHIT

Michael Moore did not put himself through that kind of hell "strictlyt for the pay".

[MADem]

37. Uh, bullshit.

No one has to PAY to have this tripe fed to them. MM's movie was released in theaters and on DVD. This is piped into the homes of the clueless, touted as "history" and endorsed by the MICKEY MOUSE Disney-ABC (oh, we're so family values and wholesome) name.

And MM's piece was fact checked, and accurate. This is NOT.

This slanders Clinton administration officials unambigously.

So that IS a problem, thanks anyway.

[Skittles]

52. excuse me

F 9/11 told the TRUTH - did not MAKE UP SHIT. And when was it broadcast to the American public on TV prior to the election?????

[tabasco]

56. It's nothing like F9-11.

Path to 9-11 is full of outright lies. Political propaganda pawned off as "history," and used to indoctrinate our school children.

F9-11 is a factual account of actual events, with the real people instead of actors. I know several people who were shocked when they saw it. My cousin who was diehard republican saw it. He is now an "independent." Do you have any source for your claim that F9-11 had no effect on converting people, or are you just guessing?

Tell me - what part of F9-11 was fabricated?

BTW - I'm a Ranger too. Army Ranger.

[RangerSmith]

57. Moore made a good film

that is nothing more than an opinion piece. Which he readily acknowledges.

As far as the facts go, you can start here...

http://www.factcheck.org/article294.html

I'm not aware of any major pundit piece over the last 15 yrs that has passed the smell check in this regard from either side.

[tabasco]

58. That is such a weak repsonse.

The link you provided barely even discusses F9-11 and then only the issue of the Bin laden family flying out of the country.

F9-11 was a series of clips of Bush et al. The film clips speak for themselves. There is no part of F9-11 when Morre is preaching his opinions.

Why are you here "Ranger"? Fighting the culture war?

Get to Iraq where the real Rangers are and fight in a real war if you hate liberal ideas so much.

Coward.

[RangerSmith]

60. Has to be personal if you disagree

right?

Always to the lowest common denominator as opposed to acknowlodging there is some actual critical thinking going on that isn't all just taking the talking points from the morning memo and just repeating them.

It's truly poisoned the political landscape and IMHO you just prove that most of us can't find a party that truly is different.. you are no different than them as demonstrated in your freeper like response, that's for sure. So sad.

If someone doesn't lock step with you on every single issue, they are the enemy, right?

[tabasco]

63. LMAO ! At least I'm a real Ranger !

Brave culture warrior! Bwaaak! Bwaaak!

Are you in the 1st Keyboard Ranger Battalion?

Or the 101st Chickenhawk Division?

Ranger my ass. More like a chickenhawk.

[RangerSmith]

64. LOL!

Why do I get the feeling your posting from a Junior High study hall?

Dude, Google Ranger Smith. In the real world it's what's commonly called a "fictional character."

I mean really, are you a bottle of tabasco or a Ranger? lol

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. I think it's a distraction.

Rove's probably laughing his ass off that people are so worked up over this and not the election.

He's got us playing defense. And on a retired politician.

We ought to be playing offense.

[NewInNewJ.]

6. I think that is ridiculous. This movie will attract all the

nuts out there, there will be previews, talk shows, advertisements etc. on this crap. More people will watch it now then ever. It will verify the right wing agenda.

[Individualist]

7. Uh, Karl,

you're not going to stop anyone from protesting this POS.

[MADem]

38. Right on, there, hillbilly! Here's a list of ABC SPONSORS

http://birdoblog.birdobot.com/disney_propaganda

I am about three quarters of the way down the list thus far!!!!!

[DireStrike]

9. Lots of people will watch it.

Lots of people ALWAYS watch 9/11 crap.

This basically would let the righties define what happened on 9/11. Then we have to run around, as usual, saying "No! That's all lies!", and then whoever we are talking to gives us a weird look or shrugs their shoulders. The next day we give them the website and they say "oh, thanks." They might check it or not, and if they do they might believe the proof... or not... after all, it's the internet.

ABC is an iconic corporation with people's implicit trust. Most people who watch this will form their opinion of events based on this. They will take the most dramatic moments and turn them into memories to be stored somewhere in their "gut".

This is how the right wing makes converts. They spew incredible amounts of bullshit, it hits a lot of people, and a handful of those find it delicious, where if they were just NOT MISINFORMED they would be politically neutral or left.

[RockHardCore]

12. Possible Response Tactic

Is there a good website that sets the record straight on what the Clinton Administration was doing right about terrorism before the Bush Administration came along and "disovered" (actually created) the problem?

If there isn't a site, could we make one?

[DireStrike]

31. There are probably plenty of them, but it goes back to believability

People just don't trust the internet as much as ABC. Also only a tiny fraction of those affected would get to any website made.

[LeftCoast]

10. We're no longer going to allow a single GOP lie to go unchallenged

They've had a pretty easy time slinging their propaganda for the last few years, but that's over now. We're going to continue fighting each and every lie and manipulation. We may not win every battle, but at least we're fighting them now.

[RockHardCore]

13. What is the best way to fight?

We haven't been able to win major elections in a long time and even if we sweep in 2006, Bush is still in the White House!!!

[Lex]

15. If we sweep in 2006, impeachment proceedings can begin

for one thing.

The country seems to finally be in the mood for them.

Bush lied to Congress about Iraq, unconstitutionally wiretapped US citizens, gave ok for secret prisons and torture. Just for starters.

[RockHardCore]

19. There is NO WAY Bush is going to get impeached and...

if he does we will get stomped in the 2008 elections! Besides, the Democrats probably have some great excuse for why they are too chicken sh!t to step up and impeach.

[EstimatedProphet]

24. How do you know?

Do you think impeachments never happen? If we get a Congress back, they can happen.

[RockHardCore]

27. But it won't...

They will be too chicken!!! Come on, you have to know that.

[EstimatedProphet]

28. Chicken?!

If we get a majority in Congress, they will do it.

[RockHardCore]

30. I'll bet you anything...

that if the Dems get control of Congress they won't bring impeachment charges and they sure won't have enough votes to throw him out of office.

And the worst part is that if they did, it wouldn't probably help the Republicans in 2008.

[EstimatedProphet]

34. This is supposition anyway

You don't think they will do anything, I do.

However, I do know this: the only way to get the chance for something to happen is to get Congress back, otherwise it's all talk.

[RockHardCore]

35. Sometimes I wish...

We could cheat in elections like they do, just to level the playing field. But I know that ultimately that would be wrong and I don't want to stoop to their level.

[LeftCoast]

23. I'm not an expert on what the best method is to fight, but

if we don't fight the GOP at all then they've already won. The first rule of the game is to show up.

[sgxnk]

14. "it's a dramatization not a documentary"

that was michael moore's "excuse" for his "dramatization" (fahrenheit 9/11) and this "dramatization" can and is using the same excuse

it's a "director's vision", not a documentary.

Mmoore, to his credit, was honest to admit that F911 was not a mere recording of facts, but an interpretation

this show is no different

if it's good for the goose...

[RockHardCore]

17. F--- That!

This film isn't being discredited anything like Moore's film was and Moore isn't evil like this film guy and ABC are!

[sgxnk]

29. lol

"evil".

gawd, the partisanship

this is a biased dramatization

so was MMoore's

partisans were all aghast over f-911, and this dramatization is having the exact same response

people on the left are EXACTLY the same as people on the right. it never ceases to amaze me. the exact same cognitive dissonance and double standards apply

regardless of who is right on any issue, there can never be impartial acceptance of equal standards among true partisans

such as yourself

[RockHardCore]

32. Obviously you don't understand what is really important or..

you are actually a mole/plant right winger on here!

[RangerSmith]

21. whats the saying

it's all about who's ox is being gored?

[LeftCoast]

26. Your post is the first time I have EVER hear MM's F911 referred to as a

'dramatization.' Frankly, you're wrong. It was in no way a 'dramatization' since they didn't have actors playing any rolls.

[newspeak]

40. excuse me

MM's Farenheit 9/11 was a documentary, with no actors and real footage. Some of the scenes he played, I had already scene from our own news on television. Some of the things he mentioned, I already knew because I read the articles. Any film is an interpretation by the film maker, but let's be clear, MM was not showing actors, and some of the film in his documentary from actual news sources. You cannot even compare this mock-u-rama to MM's film---these are actors, this an unfactual dramatization-an interpretation made by a neo-con who wishes to focus his blame on Clinton and make sure the Teflon kid stays unsullied!!! Now, I want to know why? Is it because of the elections, is it because something's coming down the pipes and they need major damage control. I have viewed Fahrenheit 9/11 more than once and you really are comparing apples to oranges.

[pat_k]

18. Dems need to learn to actually DO SOMETHING. If Clinton sues,

. . .it is a sign that perhaps they are getting it.

Democratic Party leaders are great at complaining, but rarely DO SOMETHING real.

Suing them is real -- it is a statement that "This is a lie. I will not tolerate this lie. I will prove it is a lie in a court of law and bring the liars to justice. "

Joe Wilson has it right. You must take their lies into court.

If John Kerry had immediately sued the swift boat liars, they and their lies would have gone down in flames. He would have shown strength by taking a REAL stand, and his heroism all those years ago would have been brought into the spotlight.

Every time Dems take a real stand, it's practice (like when Barbara Boxer joined members of the House and voted to reject the Ohio electors). Perhaps if they stand up on things like this, it will become a habit, and they'll get real on other things.

Like on Impeachment. (They complain about Bush's crimes, but then say "But don't worry, we won't Impeach him or anything." When they fail to Impeach, they give Bush cover. (If he is a treasonous war criminal, why aren't they impeaching him? They must be "just saying it.")

[RockHardCore]

25. Can WE (THE DU REVOLUTION) sue on Kerry/Wilson/Clinton's behalf?

Do any DU law types out there know how we could do this or get it started? Even if we sued the Swifties or the people who attacked Joe Wilson now it might hold off some attacks in this election and in 2008.

[pat_k]

45. You can always sue -- and sometimes suits on very novel grounds . . .

. . that "everybody knows" won't fly are successful.

I don't think we can sue for damages to another person, but we CAN sue for damage done to us.

Making up Presidential actions, and claiming those actions are based on a report produced by a Goverenment commission, is damaging to us as citizens.

As a member of the 911 Commission, Kean was an agent of the government. You could argue that his service as a consultant on a film intended to depict the findings of his commission's report is an extention of his role as an agent of the government -- and the product of his service is therefore a "public record." A public record that includes fictions and libelous portrayals of executive actions of a former administration is damaging to the public interest. . .

I'n not a lawyer, but when damages are real, ways can be found to seek redress in court. Presenting lies about the official actions of our government to the public with an official government stamp of approval damages the public interest.

[RockHardCore]

46. Fundraising!

That is totally a cause I would give money to! Does anyone know how we could get it started?

[pat_k]

48. Talk to ACLU attorneys??

. . .or perhaps someone can think of a lawyer who would be willing to go out on a limb.

[pat_k]

50. Let's get Menendez to sue! (Kean libels Clinton to help Kean Jr. win)

The case goes like this:

Clinton is fundraising for Bob Menendez. (e.g., event http://www.wnbc.com/politics/9798257/detail.html">last night).

Clinton's reputation and support has tangible value that affects the race.

For personal gain (to help Tom Kean Jr. unseat Bob Menendez) Thomas H. Kean approves libelous portrayal of President Clinton to damage Clinton, and thereby damage Menendez by reducing the value of Clinton's support.

Could be fun!

[newspeak]

44. after the lie is shown to millions

damage control is much harder; after all, how many networks give tough Democrats a sounding board? See, it's much better to call them wimps by allowing the less argumentative on--and don't forget to put a blathering idiot with them so they can't get their message across. Maybe, viewers should become aware how many tough democrats are allowed on the networks or for that matter, any democrat. You know, it's amazing how the Swiftboat Liars got air time, and Kerry's rebuttal hardly any. This last hit from ABC just shows we are all being played in this country. I visualize a setting where all the CEOs with the rest of the neo-con buddies sit in their little meetings laughing at the masses gullability while they choose our leaders, they choose our policies--making bundles of money off of the wars they help create while we foot the bill, not only in money, but in our childrens' lives. So, why don't the Democrats speak out? If you hold meetings in the basement of a building because you can't get a chamber, if the main sounding board comes from C-Span, that has less viewers, if you have little access or influence with the networks--where's your sounding board?

[pat_k]

47. Legal action takes it beyond a "war of words" . .

I have often wondered if we could go after FOX for some of the most egregous lies -- reports that directly conflict with established fact and public records.

Feeding the public lies about what their government is doing, or has done, damages us in VERY concrete ways.

Since We the People are the government, when they lie about the actions of our government, they are lying about our collective actions. . .

Maybe there is something in there that lawyers could get their teeth into.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. No, it isn't not a problem!

If they broadcast it as it has been reported, they will tell many Americans that are right now uninformed that Clinton let 9/11 happen, and Bush wasn't responsible! People watch the networks still. And there's plenty of them that don't know crap about what happened, because they watch ABC!

[Skidmore]

39. So we let another lie slide into history and become fact

in the retelling? When do we call them on the lies and correct the record then? Lewis Black did a very insightful program on HBO recently about politics, history, and the telling. Basically, he worked with from the premise of waiting till there was a commonly held "myth" about an event, then you "print the myth and it becomes history."

We need to stop this film cold.

[RockHardCore]

41. Do you really think there is any realistic way to stop it?

The "left wing" media has already decided what it is going to do. And we have given it all the free advertising anyway.

[Skidmore]

43. We can certainly discredit it.

And we do need to quit acquiescing to the lies. We need to fight.

[Trillo]

42. We don't get ABC

We're on the archaic big dish satellite system. Years ago it was possible to receive national network feeds that were often broadcast on KU band free over air, but in the last few years the networks have encrypted those broadcasts.

If we wanted to watch ABC, our only choice would be over the TV antenna, and the reception is usually so very poor that all that's visible is 'snow'.

I'm sure we're in a minority, though, most people are on cable and likely do receive the local network broadcasts.

Bottom line for us is, we can't watch ABC even if we wanted to. We could subscribe to the national network encrypted feed, thereby allowing us the right to decode it, but the cost for the big networks versus other single channels is obscene. IIRC, it's something like four times greater than a number of other channels, so we don't want to be ripped off and therefor don't buy their overpriced crap.

[Skittles]

51. it's a huge problem no matter what the results

the problem is one of our major TV stations is in collusion with the RNC to push progaganda on the American people in a blatant attempt to an election. When Wolf Blitzer leads off his crap-ass TV show with, "THE MOVIE THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT WANT YOU TO SEE!" - they are no longer even attempting to hide the propaganda. THIS IS A PROBLEM.

[BootinUp]

59. This is still a very emotional event for our country

Don't underestimate the power of propaganda about the attacks and the WOT. It has cost us dearly already and we must take these attempts to rewrite history head on.

Just my opinion of course. :)

[Karenina]

61. This is a GLOBAL marketing campaign

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2081154

[Imagevision]

62. Path to 9-11 is designed to stir up repug voters for failing GOP

They will realistically lose the house, which renders Bush the lame duck he is!!
Then let the true investigations begin - and finally, allow oversight do what it was designed to do!