Dems! We love guns and PUNISHMENT!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

That's what I read on so many threads here. Is that right?

[Rex]

1. Lots of Dems own guns and know how to use them.

Lots of Dems believe in the Death Penalty and think it is fair to kill someone. Shows that Dems have a 'big tent'. When Humanity totally embraces world peace, then I will give up my guns. I'm not holding my breath.

[Anakin Skywalker]

2. Right On, My Brotha!

[Mr_Spock]

8. Certainly. I think guns are more of a urban/rural issue anyway.

I grew up in the liberal & congested city - never considered having a gun and I gladly ratted anyone who did (and broke the law).

Within 1 month of buying a house in a rural area, my liberal dad & I went & bought a gun & had fun target shooting. It's also may come in handy for self-defense. We never stopped being liberals - lol.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. I've been rural for 75% of my life....

the other 25% was in the Atlanta meto area...

No guns other than my teenage years of dove and duck hunting...

The rest of the gun thing is BS IMHO.

[Rex]

12. What would you do if someone broke into your house at night

while you slept? Would you want a gun or would you try and talk to them? Calling 911 is great, but what do you do until the cops arrive?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. Well, if I was asleep.... I would probably sleep.

It hasn't happened in 50 years, so it's not a common occurance for me. How many times have people broken into your house while you slept.

(truth)

[Rex]

17. Never.

Thankfully I haven't been here when I was broken into, twice. I just don't like tempting fate.

[warrens]

36. I've actually had my home entered twice while I was asleep

Lost a VCR one time, some cigarettes and beer another. I slept through it both times. I don't own a gun, and certainly would not have used one for a lousy $50 VCR even if I had one.

But I support gun owner rights. I just choose not to have one. I have in the past, and frankly I worried a lot more about the gun than anything else. Once I had a kid, that was it for guns.

[ileus]

39. Once....

[mongo]

47. Once for me

How many times have people broken into your house while you slept.


But I grabbed a knife instead, and used my bravado.

Poor 15yo kid trying to get under the bed...and crying "Please don't hurt me sir"

Takes all the fun out of it...

[slackmaster]

49. I heard someone stumbling around by my trash cans one night

By the time I got there with a flashlight and a Glock, whoever it was had left.

I've never had anyone break in while I was there. Anyone who does will be in deep shit.

[RB TexLa]

22. I have a gun, but if someone broke in I'd much prefer to use one of the

cans of oven cleaner that that are in the house, it's much more personal.

[slackmaster]

50. That's wicked

You'd be better off killing someone than blinding them.

[Mr_Spock]

13. I don't get it - what is "the rest of the gun thing"?

I can't wrap my head around the broad-brush statements you are making...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. What "broad brush" thing have I said? I don't like guns?

[Mr_Spock]

23. You've said it was OK for you to hunt, but all that other gun stuff is for

jerks (I'm paraphrasing and interpreting).

Do you disagree?

[benEzra]

30. So don't own one...

No guns other than my teenage years of dove and duck hunting...

The rest of the gun thing is BS IMHO.

So don't own one.

My wife and I happen to choose differently than you; we live in the suburbs, we don't hunt, but we own guns, use them responsibly, and store them safely. Get over it. Live and let live, and all that.

[loyalsister]

40. I agree

There's also a difference between the members of the gun culture who see it as an ideology and ordinary utilitarian gun owners all of whom have various other political attitudes. But, the former tended to be single issue Republican voters. Although some are crossing over now that Dems are courting them in some states.

[jody]

3. DU polls show perhaps 65%+ of the respondents support RKBA. n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. I'm a minority.... I'm used to it.

[Rex]

6. You keep the tyranny of the majority at bay!

:yourock:

[jody]

19. I guess we are all minorities on some things. I wonder how anyone could

govern such an unruly conglomeration of people as we have in the U.S.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

21. Because the population acquiesces to authority....?

[jody]

26. Agree and most are to stupid or lazy to even vote. n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

28. We will both agree on that point! n/t

[benEzra]

31. "Live and let live" is the only way...

I wonder how anyone could govern such an unruly conglomeration of people as we have in the U.S.

"Live and let live" is the only way. Appreciation for diversity; tolerance; and respecting the right of those who believe differently than you do to live according to their own choices instead of yours. That's the only way to have a civil society in this country, IMHO.

[billbuckhead]

24. Most scientific polls show a majority of Americans for gun regulation

and a vast majority of Democrats. Unfortunately, DU is heavily astroturfed by the gun lobby/NRA/neoCONs.

1/6/2005

New Poll on Gun Ownership Rates
A Gallup Poll released this morning reveals that the average American owns 1.7 guns, with the average gun owner possessing 4.4 of them. The press is quick to promote stereotypes of the average gun owner as a white male, most likely Republican, living in a rural area or the South. But how well does reality match the image? The new Gallup Poll shows that the stereotype is not that far off, but with several twists. For one thing, one out of three American women say they own a gun. That's not much below the overall mark of 40% for all American adults. As for other elements of the stereotype: More than half (53%) of Republicans own guns, compared with 36% of political independents and 31% of Democrats. Whites are more likely than nonwhites to own (44% and 24%, respectively), according to Gallup.

<http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/01/new-poll-on-gun-ownership-rates.html>

[billbuckhead]

25. Most scientific polls show a majority of Americans for gun regulation

and a vast majority of Democrats. Unfortunately, DU is heavily astroturfed by the gun lobby/NRA/neoCONs.

1/6/2005

New Poll on Gun Ownership Rates
A Gallup Poll released this morning reveals that the average American owns 1.7 guns, with the average gun owner possessing 4.4 of them. The press is quick to promote stereotypes of the average gun owner as a white male, most likely Republican, living in a rural area or the South. But how well does reality match the image? The new Gallup Poll shows that the stereotype is not that far off, but with several twists. For one thing, one out of three American women say they own a gun. That's not much below the overall mark of 40% for all American adults. As for other elements of the stereotype: More than half (53%) of Republicans own guns, compared with 36% of political independents and 31% of Democrats. Whites are more likely than nonwhites to own (44% and 24%, respectively), according to Gallup.

<http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/01/new-poll-on-gun-ownership-rates.html>

[benEzra]

32. So 1 in 3 Dems, 1 in 3 indies, 1 in 3 women, 1 in 4 nonwhites, own guns...

As for other elements of the stereotype: More than half (53%) of Republicans own guns, compared with 36% of political independents and 31% of Democrats. Whites are more likely than nonwhites to own (44% and 24%, respectively), according to Gallup.

So approximately 1 in 3 Dems, 1 in 3 independents, 1 in 3 women, and 1 in 4 nonwhites, owns guns--BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION--and you still think that DU gunnies are freeper NRA trolls, and can't understand why a ban-more-guns agenda alienates a significant number of Dem and indie voters?

Cognitive dissonance is a powerful thing...

[billbuckhead]

55. I think DU is heavily astroturfed,

Not my admission but a generally pro Republican poll by the establishment. I think a lot less people own guns.

[Parisle]

4. Calm Down

---- Whining and cringing about guns is one of the surest ways to keep the Nazis in office. Let it go. There are bigger issues at stake.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

10. I don't quite understand that comment?

If I didn't know better, I would initially see that as a childish post. What are you trying to say?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mr_Spock]

14. That may not have answered my question

:) It appears that you are pissed at someone - never mind.

[immoderate]

16. An armed population is a bulwark against tyranny.

Take a look at Iraq.

Besides, in a free country, nobody should be able to tell me what toys I can own. (Subject to some reasonable limits.)

--IMM

[lvx35]

20. What I DON'T read enough of here is people talking about non-violence.

as a functional alternative to guns. The groundwork has been laid, the books are written, but nobody is really putting it forth. With out putting forth and explaning a real alternative to self defense through guns, its really useless to go after guns. What those of us who believe in non-violence need to work on is our own game plan, so we can really offer something in these conversations that demonstrates an alternative. That's an important task for us at this point.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

27. No, there is a paid contingent here to assure the dems do not piss off

the gun lobby.

[Solo_in_MD]

29. Can your posts be any more trollish?

Seriously...paid contingent on DU?

[meldroc]

38. Why can't I get any money?

I'm about as pro-gun as you can get, but nobody's giving me any cash to shill for the gun lobby...

Of course, I'm also anti-Iraq-War, pro-choice, pro-gay-rights, in favor of single-payer socialized health care, raising taxes to something that can actually pay the .gov's bills, otherwise pretty liberal.

Some of us do like our firearms, and like them just a little bit more given the civil rights violations perpetuated by the Bush administration...

[benEzra]

34. Get. A. Grip.

No, there is a paid contingent here to assure the dems do not piss off the gun lobby.

Do you actually think that those of us who disagree with you on the gun issue, are not only trolls, but professional trolls? That we speak out on the issue because we are PAID to be here, because obviously anybody who takes a pro-choice position on gun ownership can't possibly have arrived at that position through logical thought, and therefore must be paid NRA stooges?

:eyes: :wow: :spray: :tinfoilhat: :wtf: :rofl:

FYI, I am NOT a professional advocate on this issue. I am a technical writer by profession, gun owner by choice, and married to a gun owner. I decided to speak out on the issue, first as a regular on johnkerry.com, then Common Ground Common Sense, and then here, because I got tired of otherwise highly intelligent legislators and candidates being manipulated by the ban-more-guns lobby due to ignorance of civilian guns, gun owners, and Federal and state firearms law.

When the ban-more-guns lobby claims that modern-looking rifles are the "weapons of choice of criminals", they're lying (all rifles combined account for 2.8% of homicides). When they insinuate that a nontraditional-looking 9mm pistol is more powerful than a .30-06 deer rifle, they're lying. When they claim that a civilian AK lookalike, a mini-14, or an AR-15 were "designed to pierce police body armor from a thousand yards away," they're lying. When they claim that the average gun owner is a hunter, and only "extremists" own nonhunting guns, they're lying. As a gun owner, I CARE whether gun-404 legislators fall for this crap and decide to muck around in our family's gun safe, or send guys with machineguns and black body armor to our door. Out of sheer frustration with gun-ban-lobby BS, I decided to stop privately cursing the darkness, and instead try to light some candles.

[slackmaster]

48. If you think someone is part of a "paid contingent", Tom...

...You should direct your concern to the Moderators. That's what the Alert button is for.

:tinfoilhat:

[porphyrian]

33. I'm kind of in-between on both issues.

I know your post isn't referring to me, but it made me think about it.

I don't blame objects for peoples' actions. I don't think heavy metal music makes people commit suicide, or video games make kids shoot each other. In that same sense, I don't believe guns are the problem with gun-related crime - it's the people who commit the crime who are responsible. Sure, if there were no guns anywhere, no one would get shot by one. But removing these objects is only a bandaid solution to a larger problem, and the violence would continue in some other manner. Now, I'm no fan of the military industrial complex. They are immoral profiteers at everyone's expense, and I'd love to see the goes-around come back around to them. However, I have no problem with responsible gun ownership, nor do I have a problem with some forms of regulation, as long as it's reasonable and designed to insure the safety of everyone.

As for punishment, I'm a fan of justice, which means I'm against most aspects of our penal system, which has been proven to be both racist and classist, institutionally if not intentionally. Thus, I'm against the death penalty, because it isn't fairly levied and it can't be taken back. However, I also understand how I would feel if someone murdered, raped or even just beat up someone close to me. So, I'm not against punishment if it's dealt out fairly, which it isn't at the moment. In fact, I'm looking forward to punishing the traitors who have usurped our country and killed tens of thousands for their own profit.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. We booted our rep(D) out because she sold out to the NRA.

Many Dems sat on their hands in 1996 because we had to choose between a rabid right-wing Republican and a "moderate", gun-loving Dem backed by the NRA.

We put up with a couple of years of the RW'r and elected a solidly progressive rep. He's been in office since and will easily win election again this year.

[benEzra]

37. And we returned our (D) governor to office because he is pro-gun.

Different strokes for different folks.

One should also keep in mind that Gore would have won TN and WV, and the presidency (WITHOUT Florida), had he not pushed the ban-more-guns agenda--and he would likely have won Florida by a wide margin were it not for his stance on banning people's guns.

You obviously are very anti-gun in your district. Keep your gun bans local, and we'll all be happy. But keep your bans out of our family's gun safe, please.

Only about half of gun owners are repubs. Approximately 1 in 3 Dems, 1 in 3 indies, and 1 in 3 women own guns. Those of us who choose to own them, wish to retain that choice.

DU poll: Do you own a gun? (results from General Discussion, NOT the Gungeon)

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?

Alienated Rural Democrat

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Are you willing to keep your laws local?

[Solo_in_MD]

42. I am not

If a right can be controlled locally, is it really a right? Subsitute abortion for guns and see if you still like that approach.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Neither am I. That's why I'll keep fighting for more gun-control.

[Solo_in_MD]

54. your call, butprivate ownership of firearms a progressive value

and regulations preventing that are clearly repressive

[benEzra]

53. Generally speaking, yes.

Which is what I have advocated here.

I think it is wrongheaded and useless for a state to outlaw civilian guns and harass law-abiding owners, but I do not support forcing anti-gun states to bring their laws into compliance with the rest of the nation. Pragmatically speaking, I'm willing to let California, Massachusetts, NJ, etc. keep their reactionary gun laws, IF they do not try to extend those laws to other states via Congress.

If you want to make it a felony to own a rifle with a handgrip that sticks out, fine. It won't do a damn thing about crime, but if it makes you feel better, that's your own state's business. Just don't try to impose your bans on MY state via Congress or the courts.

It was the attempt to enact a California-style rifle handgrip ban nationwide that hurt the Gore ticket so badly in 2000, and the Kerry/Edwards ticket in 2004.

[Renew Deal]

43. That is correct

DU is far more pro-gun than anyone realizes and that's OK with me.

[Fierce]

45. I just got an air rifle for plinking.

Does that count as a gun?

[-..__...]

46. I see a connection here.

Problem is, too many anti-gun types (be they legislators, public officials, gun control
groups, etc), seem to place a great deal of emphasis on enacting stricter laws and regulations that
punish/affect the law abiding citizens, and deal less with criminal misuse and possession.

I have no problem with background checks and prohibitions against certain people owning or carrying firearms, but as it is now it amounts to a bunch of lip service and ineffectual BS.

Here's an idea... instead of banning certain firearms (or greatly restricting them),... ohhhh, lets say "assault weapons for example", why not put into place a system that actually puts the abusers away and leaves the law abiding alone?

If a "prohibited" person is convicted of unlawful possession of a firearm, impose a mandatory 10 year sentence with no parole or time off. If a firearm is used during the commission of a crime... add 20 years non-negothable... no plea bargain... on top of the accompanying crime.

Criminal use or possession of an "assault weapon" or "large capacity" fiream... add some more time (personally, I don't see any difference between an AW and any other type of firearm, but since the gun grabbers seem to think so, I might as well go with the flow).

A few weeks ago, a couple of "youts" were stopped in their vehicle and a subsequent search yielded a couple of handguns and a "sawed-off" shotgun (this is in MA BTW... "home of the most ridiculous toughest gun control laws in the country). Under fed law, illegal possession of an NFA item (sawed-off shotgun), carries a 10 year sentence (I believe the fine is in the $250,000 range).

The punishment according to MA law is even more strict. Think the prosecutors office will hand this over to the feds to deal with? Think the judge here will toe-the-line and apply equal sentencing?

I can guaran-fucking-tee you that will in all likelihood never happen...

Too harsh?... Too fucking bad! :nopity:


http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=154059


Menino has brush with gun violence
By Michele McPhee
Boston Herald Police Bureau Chief
Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - Updated: 02:03 AM EST

Mayor Thomas M. Menino came within feet of an armed thug and heard cops yell the chilling words “He’s got a gun!” during a walking tour of Dorchester Monday evening, learning firsthand the fright many of his constituents suffer in a city plagued daily by gunplay.

“I saw this guy running past me in a black shirt. All the sudden, the police who were with me were running and chasing this individual,” Menino said yesterday.

“This guy was brazen as hell,” a calm and cool Menino told the Herald. “I don’t know that this individual knew that the mayor was in the area, that there would be so many cops chasing him, but how brazen can you be?”

Menino, along with acting Boston Police Commissioner Al Goslin, top BPD brass and City Hall aides, were meeting with residents of the Bowdoin/Geneva area, a known hot spot for shootings, about 7 p.m.

Snip 8<------

Attacking gun violence has been Menino’s top priority after 341 people were shot in the city in 2005. At least 266 people have been shot in Boston so far this year, BPD statistics show, a pace of more than one shooting a day. From Jan. 1 to Aug. 20, 35 people were shot dead and another 231 were wounded by gunfire. Boston cops have busted 471 people with guns during that same period.

Monteiro was busted on New Year’s Eve 2004 with a loaded handgun, said Suffolk District Attorney’s Office spokesman Jake Wark. He was sentenced to one year in prison for that arrest and remains on probation in connection with a 2003 assault charge, Wark said. Yesterday, a Dorchester judge ordered Monteiro held on $25,000 in connection with his latest arrest.

[StraightDope]

51. I love guns.

I don't love gun CRIMES though. The right has a monopoly on that.

[nnyvet]

52. I own 2 guns

I have a 12 gauge that is in the law that I bought when I was 20, pistol grip, short barrel. I also own a 30-.06 hunting rifle that was passed down from an uncle on my father's side.

I used to live next door to my sister, and someone tried to break into the room where my niece was sleeping. When they came through the window, they heard the round being jacked into the chamber and damn near pissed themselves. I held them for about 20 minutes waiting for local cops, then I had my sister call the cops and say that someone was in the house with a gun. Cops were there in 5 minutes.