You gotta hand it to Disney.. They did their homework

[SoCalDem]

Sandy Berger...villain
Madeleine Albright...villian
Clinton .......villain..

what do these three have in common?

The public has been PRE-conditioned to accept them as villains because the media has done a full-press smear attack on them for a long time now..

Tenet probably had more to do with the failures than anyone, and yet... he's a congressional medal of freedom award recipient

Who's standing up for the facts?

Jamie Gorelik...also pre-demonized by the media
Richard Clarke....see above
ben Veniste......see above

anyone who has spoken out about the lies and distortions of the movie has been pre-marginalized.

Kean is NEVER asked about how his reaction to the "movie" is shaded by the fact that his REPUBLICAN son is running for office, and the support he might lose, could be a factor if Dad did not go along with the Clinton-did-it folks..

No one ever mentions the evangelical christian kook behind the whole adventure, and the fact that he TOLD people prior to making this thing, that he intended to REMAKE the movie industry from within..

The White House KNEW this "Get out of jail free" card was in the works...and they knew it would be out just in time to coincide with Juniors CYA tour...and coincidentally, the 06 elections...

The whole thing reeks ...

and yet because Ronnie spoke harshly to Nancy (and we all know that NEVER happened) the Reagan "movie" got pulled...Moore's movie got dumped initially because it might affect an election, even though it SHOWED the actual people saying their own words (no fiction there, folks)....but "SwiftBoat-the movie" on Kerry still ran, just before the election..and so will this one..

We are urged to "just watch the movie"..aka..STFU ...


It's like knowing a car has no brakes, but not being allowed to tell the driver.. we are told to just wait and see what happens after he starts to drive the car..
:grr:

the right wingers who did this movie, know exactly what they are doing.. and either way, it works for them'

the movie runs, and they get their evil twisted message out
the movie doesn't run, and they scream censorship and the movie is sold online and becomes a "forbidden" cult success..

[Rex]

1. Boy did you just hit the nail right on the head!

:yourock:

[Karenina]

16. SoCalDem ALWAYS has

Maxwell's Silver Hammer in her hand.

[SoCalDem]

17. Thanks.. My Bullshit detector is always ON...

It's funny too, because my grown up kids always teased me about having BS radar when they were spinning stuff to me:)

:)

[wtmusic]

2. But when they mess with Paul O'Neill and his $60M

they are asking for it. I hope he cleans their legal clock.

[SoCalDem]

10. Even he was marginalized after he quit..

These people trash everyone who leaves the reservation", and the press is so hungry for "content", they jump right in..instead of actually doing research.. It;s cheaper for media to have stuff handed to them, than it is to pay a staff to ferret out information..

[kerry-is-my-prez]

3. What I still don't get is why did Bob Iler is doing this - he's a Dem.

He's given a lot of money to Dems - and fairly recently too.

[SoCalDem]

5. Power/Money/Power/Money/Power

These big corporations are in a state of constant flux, and the guys that the top are always dancing on the edge of a razor blade.. they go with the flow, or they might be OUT.

[bliss_eternal]

19. We don't need Dems like him...

he can vote for repukes for here on in. He isn't helping us...

[Cooley Hurd]

4. Your post bums me out because you're sooooo right...

Great Americans who have been marginalized by the fascist-corporate media.:grr::grr::grr:

[SoCalDem]

12. A direct result of the Fairness Doctrine's demise

News organizations on TV used to have to be careful what they said, because they had to allow opposition airtime, so they pretty much stayed with what they could prove, and carefully labeled their "opinion" stuff..

I remember seeing lots of "opposition" responses during highly charged political seasons..

now they will say pretty much anything someone pays them to say, and no one can refute it without also paying..(unless the boss of the network disagrees with your political afiliation...then you cannot even BUY time to set things straight)

:cry:

[Cooley Hurd]

14. I'm old enough to remember this:

:cry: right along with you...

[spanone]

6. You're right, it will show and now EVERYFUCKINGBODY will watch.

Rovian.

[SoCalDem]

8. and without sponsors, they got more free publicity

than they could ever have spent..:grr:

and to think that people thought Rover had lost his touch :puke:

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. This movie reinforces what has been said for years on rw AM talk

radio.

[SoCalDem]

9. and there is a significant number of people who cannot

distinguish what they see....from the truth..

the pundits keep saying "ABC news has nothing to do with this".

and they should be ASKED...WHY THE HELL NOT!! It's about possibly the BIGGEST news event of our time, and they were not consulted???

I know people who believe everything they read in the "paper"...even if that paper is the Enquirer:puke:

same for tv...

the right wingers who did this movie, know exactly what they are doing.. and either way, it works for them'

the movie runs, and they get their evil twisted message out
the movie doesn't run, and they scream censorship and the movie is sold online and becomes a "forbidden" cult success..

[nicknameless]

11. Remember MoveOn.org's mild little ad, "Child's Pay"?

CBS refused to run the ad because they saw it as being partisan (ie: told the truth)
MoveOn was told that the ad "violated the network's policy against accepting advocacy advertising".

What a crock. Every single day we're subjected to a bombardment of right-wing propaganda.
So now we're being threatened with several uninterrupted hours of lies.

Time to step up our efforts.
Boycott Disney and their sponsors.

Where are the cease and desist lawsuits? Clinton? Albright? Berger? ...?

[SoCalDem]

13. When they speak out, they are automatically viewed

as "trying to save their reputations".. Dems are ALWAYS on defense..:grr:

SOMEONE in dem leadership had to know about this crappy film while they were all on a month-long vacation...(OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN)..:grr:

Vacation should have been cancelled, and they should have all had mega-meetings about how to handle this fiasco..

waiting til the week it airs is too late and makes them look desperate...

[nicknameless]

15. Absolutely.

And look at how many of them have legal backgrounds.
There should be a MOUNTAIN of lawyer letters at Disney right now!

The one I read from the Dem. leadership warned of a tarnished image for ABC.
I just don't think the reich-wing cares about that sort of thing.
Besides, who's going to get the truth out? The corporate media isn't going to publicize it.

What percentage of sheeple still believe Saddam was behind 9-11? Even though * has said he wasn't?
Once a lie is out there ...

[nicknameless]

18. Kick

[Tactical Progressive]

20. You got Repub tactics gauged pretty well

They smear all the time, both in broad political terms and individuals. That's what they've learned over the past ten years: that treachery works. That's why they're increasingly willing to violate every ethic in the book, from stealing elections to lying (even to themselves) about history.

Regarding the creator and Kean, if this were a movie funded by an extreme left-winger that's all you would be hearing. The media would be asking questions like this at every turn:

'Do you think it's right for a broadcast network to show a drama posing as history made by an extreme partisan?'

'Doesn't a broadcast network have an obligation to not show a factually dishonest miniseries?'

'Isn't partisan rancor like this unpatriotic and doesn't it weaken the country?'

They'd have both a Dem and a Repub on to answer the questions, so in their mind it would be fair.
We'll get very little if any of that here, which is where the incredibly failed fairness of our media really comes into play.


And you're right that there is a good chance that stink-wingers make out either way. Right now they've got it set up so that even if they 'lose' and the movie gets pulled:

1) They've put the meme out that it was really Clinton's fault. This may not sway people from one side to the other, but it will probably swing the typically-oblivious from it being more Bush's fault to being both Clinton and Bush's fault. A huge lie since it was alot more even than just being 'more' Bush's fault.

2) Democrats blocked the truth of their failures from being broadcast.

3) They have the censorship card any time anybody says anything against them.


My position, which I layed out in another thread, is that we should let them air their crap, cleaned of blatant lies, but obviously not of partisan slant, then shove our own five-hour 'Frontline'-type miniseries up ABC's broadcast ass - with the real truth of how Clinton, his Republican Congress, and Bush-Cheney acted to protect America from terrorism.

That's how I think we win: by letting them take their cheap shot and then beating the hell out of them with the truth. It's the difference to me between fighting back versus yelling for someone to stop hitting you.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

21. Great idea but who's going to air our version when they control ALL MEDIA?

[Tactical Progressive]

22. That's just it SoCalDemGrrl

If ABC broadcasts this fabrication, they'll have no choice but to show a Democratic version of their perspective on the facts that led up to 9/11. Can you imagine how they would look otherwise to refuse to broadcast a non-contrived version of the propaganda they're showing now? They'll look like ten times the partisan dogs they look like today.

Whereas conversely, if they pull this movie, how would they look to then agree to broadcast a progressive rendition of who really let national security down? Partisan.

[SoCalDem]

23. But who's going to pay for a counter-show? This one cost $40M

and then there's the getting of airtime.. The networks would not even accept ADS and the money to run them because they went against the administration..

The takeover of the media is pretty much complete now, and even money won;t buy time if they disagree with what you are selling..:grr:

The idealogues have won...:grr:

[Tactical Progressive]

24. First, as to the money, it shouldn't cost

anywhere near $40 million to produce a television documentary. Second there are plenty of wealthy Dems who could help bankroll such an effort. Third is raising money on the internet. I just don't see that as even a small factor. What price do you put on this? If it's too much of a hurdle to make a video to set the record straight and fight these people, then really, why even bother fighting them at all? I think the money would be raised in a day.

I answered your second question in post 22 - the politics of this thing. If ABC broadcasts this Republican fairy tale they will have no ability whatsoever to say no to a broadcast in response. Especially after all of this hullabaloo. Do you really think they would just be able to refuse to broadcast a 9/11 documentary after they've done this?

Which is my whole point. If Dems succeed in forcing this movie off the air then just the opposite political dynamic is in effect. We won't be able to get a truthful exposition on 9/11 broadcast after blocking theirs. ABC will then have the excuse to do what they want to do and not broadcast what would surely be the truth, properly critical of this administration and the Republican Congress before them acting against Clinton. I see the politics as either both or none, and as we have the truth which needs to be told while they have only fiction to promote, letting them show this so we can respond is a golden opportunity.

[Cleita]

25. An observation that I made about cheaters when I was in

college was that if they expended half the energy and time in doing their homework and studying for exams they would all be A students. It's the same with this RW group of thugs. If they spent half the time and energy in doing the right and intelligent thing for thier country we would still be a great nation instead of debasing themselves to conducting smear campaigns and telling lies to get to where they want to be.

[SoCalDem]

32. I always told my kids that too..

The energy expended in NOT doing a chore was always more than it would have taken to just DO it :)

[omega minimo]

26. Yup

:yourock:

[EFerrari]

27. I disagree, lol, at my own peril I know.

You make good points but they've overstepped big time.

Bill Clinton is a hugely popular president. There is no way that they're going to get away with this.

They've already said they've had to edit out bad material; they've already conceded.

If this thing runs, DISNEY will be boycotted going into the holiday season. It will be their worst Christmas EVER.

Americans are TIRED of the overt manipulation. I bet you lunch, SoCalDem and I'd be happy to pay up if I'm wrong. :)

[BootinUp]

28. I also bet Disney regrets this.

What are we bettin? one dollar?

[EFerrari]

29. Lunch.

:)

[SoCalDem]

31. The Americans who are paying attention are pissed, BUT

I am afraid that "most" people are too wrapped up in their daily dramas to even take much notice of the nuance..

Every few years these folks get poked, and reminded to vote.. Lots of people decide how they will vote, by what soundbytes they pick up on the radio or by watching the gawd-awful commercials..

Those of us who are paying close attention are very "fact-laden", but unfortunately, there are millions who choose , based on the propaganda that hits closest to home for them:(

I know some people who actually think that *² is a "decisive" president and that Clinton was a bum..

I remind them that Clinton was INDEED a bum..(of a husband)...but at least he did his job faithfully, and was not on a permanent vacation/fundraising junket..

[EFerrari]

33. I know there are people who hate Bill Clinton. He's too much

of a character to not draw negative opinion, too.

But, what I'm going on is the sense that the Thuggery have gone so 'way overboard in their manipulations that they are actually pissing off people that would rather NOT think about politics or maybe, whose lives are so stressful that they don't feel they have time or energy to concern themselves with one more thing.

Those people. BushCo is impinging on those people. People who are too tired or too stressed out or too busy and yet, BushCo keeps cranking out terror threats that those (responsible) people feel they better attend to every time and every time, it's bs. Those guys.

Those are the people that may not know the last report as we do, right, but who have no patience for one more damn alarming message from BushCo. Those people who believe that Bill's bj was his business and didn't want to hear about it every night over dinner for years.

I think those people are about to rebel. This is just one straw too many. They've had enough. And when Junior speaks between segments, they are going to feel SO manipulated, even if they turn off the teevee, they won't forget how much they disliked that.

/ack

:shrug:

[SoCalDem]

34. I guess we won't know the outcome until after the elections

and I will gladly buy you lunch....:P

[EFerrari]

35. Let's see how we do. I've never seen the America people

be so patient for so long.

Lunch it is, then. :)

[Neecy]

30. you are absolutely dead-on right

I'd add that since Bush likes to blame others for what he himself does, that they also are banking on Democrats going ballistic on this and slamming us for 'censorship' or not valuing 'free speech'. They get a two-fer on this (or, as you point out in the OP, a four or five-fer).

I hate these bastards. I'm bone weary of them. I'm sick of their Big Lies.