"Experts ponder public grief over Irwin"

[Jamastiene]

Experts ponder public grief over Irwin
Anna Salleh
ABC Science Online

Friday, 8 September 2006

This week's mass grieving in response to the death of Australian crocodile hunter Steve Irwin is part of a fairly recent phenomenon dependent on the mass media, say experts.

But how do we make sense of this public grieving for the loss of someone most have never met?

We generally think of grief as being associated with the loss of people we're very close to, like a family member, says psychologist Grant Brecht, of the Australian Psychological Society.

But he says we can feel close to someone we have never met if we come to know and like them through their appearances in the media.

"We conjure up in our own mind feelings and thoughts about what that person would be like," says Brecht.

And when they die we respond as if we did in fact know them.

"We can experience grief almost at the same level as we may well do with a family member," says Brecht.

<snip>

Read the entire article here:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2006/1736016.htm

[don954]

1. I just cant get too worked up about him

its small potatoes compared to the 60 American soldiers killed in Iraq last month alone..

[Jamastiene]

7. I guess this article and this thread do not

concern you at all then. Thanks for your input anyway.

[Kutjara]

2. I remember all the wailing and rending of clothes...

...when Princess Diana died. People lined up in London for days just to sign the condolence book. There was blubbing and crying in the streets. The mass of flowers left at the gates of Kensington Palace became a fire hazard as the core temperature of the biomass approached ignition point. I found the whole spectacle depressing and worrying. Has TV become so real to us that we feel more for celebrities than we do for our own families, or even ourselves?

[Jamastiene]

9. I wouldn't say we feel more for them, but

that we DO feel for them at all. They are people too and we are sometimes affected by their deaths. Do you think that those who mourned JFK or RFK or Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. cared more about them than they did their own families? I would say not, but those were people who fought for things they believed in and their deaths did affect many people. Granted Steve Irwin was a conservationist and that was his main issue. He was still an advocate for the environment against habitat destruction and poaching, which was a strong progressive issue last time I checked.

[Kutjara]

13. Sure, it's entirely appropriate to feel sadness...

...at the death of a public figure, but I'm talking about the almost hysterical public demonstrations of grief at Diana's funeral. They were way out of proportion to the impact she had on anyone's lives outside of her immediate family. It was as if people were trying to outcompete eachother in how distraught they were.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I still believe that one should be dignified when paying one's respects to the dead. Of course, if the deceased is a close family member, tears are often unavoidable, but the stuff I witnessed at the Diana funeral was akin to someone throwing themselves across the coffin of a nodding acquaintance.

[Jamastiene]

16. Some people do those things

at funerals and such. Some people do express grief in a very outwardly emotional way. Those are just the extremes though. Their grief, in my mind, is no less real. Just because I may not always necessarily cry in public, doesn't mean I am not feelings strong feelings of grief as well. Different people have different way of showing it. The point of the article, however, isn't about the public showing of grief. It is an article that explains their take on whether or not the public can feel grief for someone they did not know personally.

[NC_Nurse]

3. What mass grieving?

I felt sad that he died...not exactly the same as REAL grief that I would have over a close friend or family member...I think this is bullshit.
Yes, there are always a few people who get overinvolved with celebrities in their minds and freak over the likes of Princess Di and Irwin and
others, but that's hardly a new phemomenon is it? Shit, there are still people that go to Graceland every year for Elvis' death/birthday!
So effin' what?

[Jamastiene]

5. There were many children AND adults who were affected

by his death. I found this article very interesting actually. Many adults who may not have been personally affected still had to deal with the issue of death when they informed their children of his death. Here is another article that points out that children were affected by his death and also mentions adults who were affected by JFK's death. I agree that it is not a new phenomenon, but when celebrity deaths, who were great leaders in some way, whether it be civil rights issues or simple conservation issues, do affected many people as if it really was a member of the family who died.

I was sad when he died too. I spent several days in a zombie like state of shock. I do think the article is interesting to discuss.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060905/en_afp/australiapeopleirwinwildlifechildren_060905134851

[lavendermist]

4. Oh, put a sock in it.......

Our hearts can hold enough love for those deserving of it, why don't you think we can grieve for many. There are many here on DU and in my real life who grieve for all the men and women who have sacrificed their lives for nothing.

We can also grieve for someone who seemed so full of life that we almost believed nothing could happen to him. But it did. And we all feel more vulnerable because of it.

[Jamastiene]

6. You apparently missed the point of the article.

The article says that, yes, we can really feel grief when someone who was famous and that we admired a lot died. Or is that what you are saying?

[KoKo]

8. We "Children of the Media" experience "Collective Grief" because in most

cases we are so alienated from our families and live in communities where we are "always new" {because we need to hunt for jobs and constantly move) need to identify more with our Mass Hero's we feel closer to than "friends and family."

It's sad...but true..

[Jamastiene]

10. I agree with you on that one as well.

Most people are so busy and cauught up about surviving in an economy set up to keep people in poverty that they cannot spend time fighting for issues they really care about. Those people who do spend time fighting for the environment, for instance, in Steve Irwin's case, really catch our attention and make us pause and think about how nice it would be to be able to do the same. We cannot always take time to do the same, although we would like to. Many of us also cannot afford to do so either. We do what we need to do to survive. If that includes a bit of identifying more with our heroes than our own families, that of course we will be more affected by their deaths than we maybe thought we would.

You make a valid point.

[sandnsea]

11. I don't get why people don't get it

Everybody didn't know George Washington personally either, but there was public mourning all over the country. These ARE real people who have real values that people respond to. What the hell kind of civilization would we be if we didn't respond positively to those with positive values?? I'd hate to see people become callous to those who use their talents to better the planet.

[Jamastiene]

12. I do as well.

My other posts should reflect that. I remember some of the truly hateful things said against Steve Irwin in the days after he died. Many of those posts were lamblasting those of us who were grieving by saying that we could not have real emotions in regards to his death because we didn't know him personally. This article points out that we can experience those feelings and that we do grieve for someone we admired when they died even if we did not know them.

[onecent]

14. My 11 yr old grandaughter saw a book -and on the cover was Jackie Kennedy

and John F. Kennedy. She wanted to know who they were. She said she thought so and seemed very moved....and I told her about that horrible horrible day. I was 17 at the time. I cried for 3 or 4 days nonstop with the tv coverage. BUsinesses were closed for the long weekend, EVERYTHING was closed..and everyone stayed glued to a tv.

Same thing with Diana...I got up at 3:00 to watch her funeral.

Don't ask what it is...don't know...compassion maybe.

I didn't much care for Steve Irwin, but my sons could imitate him looong before I knew who they were imitating.

I am sad for his family...and he did so much by his LOVE of this planet.

[Jamastiene]

18. You make a valid point.

He did care about the animals he was saving. He did care about conservation. He did save a lot of animals from death and that is an issue that endeared many people to him. Of course, people can feel sad when someone they admired dies. That is the point. Right after he died, there were many negative comments made stating that people who did not know him personally could not really be feeling sad about his death.

[NashVegas]

15. The Article Leaves Out an Important Point

Irwin died the way Dale Earnhardt did: in the course of doing the thing that got him famous in the first place.

It also happens to musicians, every now and then. Country Dick Montana collapsed onstage in a Beat Farmers concert. Heart attack. Others got zapped.

There's also media driving it and the morbid fascination thing in general.

[Jamastiene]

22. Would you really compare

someone driving a race car to someone who was trying to help fight habitat destruction and poaching? Or am I misreading what you meant?

[NashVegas]

25. I Would Compare a Race Car Driver Who Died on the Speedway to ...

a world-famous naturalist who died from being attacked by an animal, yes.

[Jamastiene]

26. I could see that IF the only criteria

were that they died doing their jobs. That would be a fair enough comparison in that case. Otherwise, I still do not see your overall point.

[NashVegas]

31. If You Cannot See the Parallels

I cannot help you.

[BootinUp]

42. Parallels sure. But are they important?

I bet that the two groups you compare, race driving fans and fans of environmentalists are not overlapping much. Are either of the groups discredited by forming personal attachments to a famous member? Not really


I didn't read the whole article, I am just confused as to what the "controversy is". And I am distracted by the ABC 9/11 thing too so forgive me if I missing your point.

[SoCalDem]

17. PUBLICITY.. pure and simple..

when someone is engaging, and they are seen by millions of people every week..and if those people share their own family lives with us (as he did, and others do as well), we DO know them.. We may not know the day-to-day details of their lives, but we know some important stuff about them, and we develop a bond with them.

Think about what we knew about Steve:

we knew he LOVED LOVED LOVED Terri..from the instant they saw each other
we knew that he dearly loved animals,..even the ugly,scary ones, and he taught people about how those scary ugly creatures had a place in the world
we knew that he was totally in love with his kids
we knew that he was a devout conservationist, and through him, we were taken to those gorgeous wild places on earth
we knew that he had life-long friends who loved him
we knew that he was not pretentious
we knew that he dearly loved his dog Sooey
we saw him cry when he talked about his Mom's death

He was a guy that most people would want to have in their family..

and then he died too young, in a stupid way

when most people die, they are just a memory from then on.. an occasional side trip through faded photo albums and crackly home-movies..

the celebrities we form bonds with remain ever-young (if they died young).. we see their kids and spouses age and yet, there is Steve..still excited and young.. but gone..

and with the photo album , at least we have the choice of when to look at it..but once there's tv or movie footage, we can be brought right back into the grief, by just flipping a channel..

It's kind of creepy, but there's no escaping it..

and it is sad to think that his little kids will grow up only seeing their great Dad on tv..

[Jamastiene]

20. You are so right.

We know what we loved about Steve Irwin and we know he did good in the world. That is what we will miss and what we will grieve for. We know he helped the animals in ways that many do know know about because he did not always announce when he was going to buy another piece of land to save habitats from being lost. He did announce a small portion of what he was doing through his documentaries, but he did not always announce every animal he helped. Like the koala he picked up from the side of the road that had been hit by a car. It lost an ear, but it is now ready to go back to the wild. That part wasn't on any documentary that has been mentioned yet. He did many wonderful things that many people are not aware of. Those of us who were fans feel the way you described. And we do feel for Terri and the kids. The are feeling the grief from a perspective of losing a family member personally. We are feeling the grief of losing someone we considered a friend in some way and as a hero (for many of us) for what he spent his life doing.

[buddhamama]

19. i came to love Johnny Cash

Carl Sagan and a host of other "celebrities" too. why? because they touched my life in a very personal way, they had an impact on me.

[Jamastiene]

21. I admired Carl Sagan for his efforts

for the enviorment as well. He was a champion for fighting global warming and overpopulation. I agree with you that it does have an impact on us.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

23. Nothing new.

Back even WAY before my time, when silent film star Rudolph Valentino died, women jumped from bridges. There were quite a few suicides. And years later they revealed that he was gay.

[Jamastiene]

27. I agree that this is not a new phenomenon.

I believe that people can feel real emotions when someone famous dies, but saying that the effects of television are the main reason is arguable.

[BootinUp]

24. Experts need something to write about, oh what about this?....n/t

[Jamastiene]

28. They are saying that the public reaction, i.e. fans mourning,

is due to television and that the emotions are real. There have been many claims that the sadness experienced by those who did not know them is not real.

[BootinUp]

29. I guess it seems like common sense to me.

But I think I posted in a bad mood, I am kind of upset that ABC still has not pulled their distortion of 9/11 and the Commission report. Sorry.

[Jamastiene]

32. It's ok.

I am upset about that too. That story has really pissed off even the most moderate of politicians and most of us. My aunt is among those as well. She doesn't use a computer much, but asked me to send an email together letting our local ABC affiliate (the only one we have) know that if they show that movie, we will boycott them from now on. I guess I am guilty of thinking that once the Big Dawg said something to them, they'd decide to yank it. I had planned on watching it before I heard about all the errors and lies and myths and rabid right wing propoganda. We both had decided not to watch it. My aunt said she wanted to make sure WSOC-TV knew we meant business too. I'm glad she asked me to email them although I wonder how ABC went from being boycotted by the right for Disney's Gay Days to being boycotted by many people including progressives and moderate. They sure do seem to want to swing way far to the right on us all of a sudden, don't they? It's sad really.

[BootinUp]

40. Thank you

I appreciate your comments and knowing you and your Aunt are in for the battle ahead. I will see you around I hope. :hi:

[hyphenate]

30. And why not?

Steve Irwin had a very diverse audience for his series, and for the movies and documentaries he made. It's not unheard of that many people looked up to him and admired him, and that young people, especially children, had a great deal of enthusiasm for him and his work, and perhaps even idolized him.

I have avoided all the negativity here at DU over his death, deciding to keep my opinions to myself because I have also enjoyed his work and more than his work, his dedication to animals and wildlife in general. There are few people on this green planet who would not be patting themselves on their own backs for spending their money for such charities, but Steve Irwin barely even let outsiders know he had done it. That elevates him in my mind, and really tells me that he did it because it was important to HIM, not because he did it for any other reason.

I can see where inviting him into your home would make him so familiar. Even now, his family has rejected a "state" funeral, because, as his dad said, Steve was "an ordinary bloke." And it was because he was so ordinary that he got through to people. He didn't have a huge ego, he didn't wave money under people's noses, and his enthusiasm for his work was contagious--just like Star Trek had been an influence for me and others like me back 40 years ago, we will never know how many children have been influenced by Irwin to become involved in animal causes, become veterinarians, join the Peace Corps, or any one of a myriad range of careers that bring them into close or direct contact with the wildlife in the world.

People will miss him, yes, because he was a good man. His devotion to his work made people look at fierce creatures with a more sympathetic eye--how many of us would hasten to kill a poisonous snake or a crocodile, simply because we could, or because they have a certain reputation? His work brought even the most reviled creatures to the fore, and explained them in language which was easy to understand. It's now become more likely that we would stay away from such an animal instead of killing them, because we realize they have their purpose here, as much as the rest of us.

His death, though, is a warning: it shows that we should never, ever, take any animal for granted. What is normally a peaceful creature, a shy denizen of the sea, is just as deadly as any of the other creatures Irwin handled in his work. Like all of us, he did not take any threat from the stingray seriously, to his own end. But in one way, his death by stingray is justifiable--of all the times he wrestled with truly dangerous animals, he was never killed by them--his work with them did give him some immunity in the end, but it was only a relaxation of his wariness that killed him.

Yes, he will be missed, and yes, many will grieve his death. And he deserves every single bit of it.

[Jamastiene]

35. Best post in this thread so far.

I agree. :thumbsup:

[bumblebee1]

38. It was like inviting a friend into your home.

This friend on the tv didn't care if there was dust on the furniture, dirty dishes in the sink or the bed was unmade. This friend wasn't judgmental about your life and whatever choices you made or didn't make. This same friend didn't care if you were watching the show while in your pajamas, underwear or were fully dressed. It didn't matter to them if you were drinking water, beer, eating cereal or potato chips. Steve Irwin or any celebrity on tv is/was like that kind of friend.

It is unfortunate that in our society, there are people who know more about Steve Irwin's family than they know about their own. They recognize more people on tv than the folks who run their town or city.

I was shocked about Steve Irwin's death. I enjoyed watching his specials. IMO, the show "Croc Hunter" was geared towards kids. I was equally as shocked about the death of Princess Diana. Even though we grew up in two entirely different worlds, I felt a connection to her. We were both born in 1961 and our birthdates were five days apart. Yes, I even woke up early to watch her funeral. Did I cry? You bet I did. Yes, both died while in the prime of their lives.

[BootinUp]

41. Nice post. Just watched an interview clip

of him on Larry King last night. He was obviously somewhat unique in his enthusiasm and single minded purpose. His enthusiasm was infective. I can see why people became attached.

[Generator]

33. I had an epiphany about the guy

My personal opinion (though lordy knows DU'ers don't agree with me on this since everyone had to weigh in on it!) on the man isn't important. But WE HAVE NO HEROES anymore. The man wasn't even American. But most of our sports heroes are involved in sex, drug or just plain vanity scandals. Our celebrities are the ilk of Paris Hilton and Tom Cruise.

The kids have politicians that are neither caring or smart-see a certain Vice President, and President. Who do they have to care about that is larger than life and just doing their special thing in life? I get the grief, we have almost no one anymore to look up to. And this funny, strange, touching, unique guy from Australia was big news. What that says about is us more than a love of crocodiles.

PS It's not recent. People need people those that are larger than life that they can care about. Our own lives can rarely be so interesting.

Rudolph Valentino, Elvis Presley, Amelia Earhart, for three different eras come to mind.

[Jamastiene]

34. Don't forget JFK, RFK, and Dr. King

And you are right. American's have no real heroes any more. It's pathetic how far down we have slid.

[dflprincess]

36. I can still cry over Wellstone

though, at least, I had the opportunity to meet him several times. (But, I think I would feel this way even if I'd never met him.)

I will also confess to feeling awfully sad when JFK,Jr. died.

[Jamastiene]

37. We do get attached to people on television

who share our values. I can see how someone can miss someone who cared about the same issues we care about.

[Marr]

39. Anyone who thinks this amounts to "grieving" has never lost a loved one.

I've heard a few respectful comments, I've heard a few "that's so sad"s, and I've seen a whole lot of PC expressions of public mourning on the internet, but I haven't seen any grieving.

His family and friends are grieving.