C'mon DU'ers We Are Better Than This, Smarter Than This, Please Understand

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

I know you all mean well with this boycotting ABC stuff, but please understand that it is a futile concept. The whole marketing of TV revolves around a very simple concept: Ratings. These ratings come from Nielsen ratings boxes. These ratings determine market share within different demographics and this is used as the main bargaining chip in determining what they can charge advertisers for airtime.

If you don't have a Nielsen box, you ain't invited to the party: Period. Boycott them all you want. They didn't know you were there yesterday, they won't know you're missing tomorrow.

I know it is easy to say "Boycott ABC! Block your channels!" but c'mon, we're smarter than this. It just simply will not do anything.

The way you make it effective is by targeting the advertisers themselves. But it would take one hell of a movement to make that have an impact. But if you want to do it directly to ABC's ratings then a call for everyone to block their stations ain't gonna do it. You'd have to put in some major legwork in locating as many ratings box households across the country as possible and convincing them to block out ABC or whatever other channel you want to boycott.

But just choosing to not watch Grey's Anatomy this season is not going to do anything. If you like the show, then not only are you not accomplishing anything but now you're only hurting yourself from something you had previously found entertaining. Personally I don't watch it, but I'm just sayin.

So anyway, please please please understand you can't impact ratings by just saying you won't watch. Please DU'ers (those who don't realize) understand that you need a Ratings box. We are so spot on factual about so many things. Let's not be ignorant with this concept.

Thanks and Peace.

OMC

[WildEyedLiberal]

1. This is a great post

It's true that only Nielsen ratings boxes are tracked - there's no way for networks to know what most people are watching.

A far more productive use of our time would be spent lobbying ABC/Disney directly and telling them we will no longer purchase their products - eg DVD box sets, movies, etc - until/unless they pull the film. Targeting major sponsors works, too. I don't know the major sponsors of this film, but maybe someone here does. The pressure recently caused Scholastic to withdraw its school tie-in promo, so putting pressure on DOES work - the key is to apply pressure in the right places.

Good post OMC.

[alternativethot]

10. ...apply pressure

Keep applying pressure...ABC, Disney. Scholastic it seems might have already worked. Watching TV is irrelevant, but you can threaten dollars towards other goodies.

[uppityperson]

49. exactly, apply pressure

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Hey Uppity, No Google Bomb Yet? :o)

[uppityperson]

60. Got it

annoying figuring it out, added

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

95. Cool! Looks Good. :o)

[NMDemDist2]

73. welcome to DU alternativethot!

:hi:

[Liberalynn]

132. Exactly.

Also though you don't have a Nielson box, there are other ways you can be heard about television.

We can start writing negative reviews of their shows on TV web sites. Start complaining about the saturation of stories on the web and in Entertainment magazines about the over coverage of shows like Lost and Desperate Housewives.

It might not make a difference true, but it doesn't hurt to try.

[bainz]

2. hear, all ye good people

hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!

That and I am also a big fan of Lost :)

[Warren DeMontague]

3. How do you know some people here don't have boxes?

You don't.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Irrelevant To The Point.

The point is using the "Boycott their shows!" meme in a wholesale way directed at everybody as if it carries any validity.

No where did you see me claim that no one here has one. Maybe one or two do. But the threads on the subject don't ask "hey, do you have a box? If you do, please boycott ABC!". If they did, that would be appropriate. It's the post after post of people asking everyone to boycott as if it makes a difference that needs to be addressed.

This thread is an attempt to educate those who may not know better as to the reality of the situation. If you paid attention you'd see that I addressed in the thread that to make a difference you'd have to reach out only to those that have boxes. If some here do, then great.

But don't just post dissent for sake of being contrary. This thread is logical and warranted and it's intent was obvious at being directed towards the grand scale use of the concept as opposed to extremely limited and targetted focus of only those that actually have boxes.

[Sydnie]

29. See my post #27 for real info on who is tracking what. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

86. Don't tell me what to post and what not to, TYVM.

I think a wholesale boycott DOES carry validity. When the powers-that-be market shows, they don't only market towards Nielsen box people. They market towards the population as a whole, the idea being that the Nielsen boxes are a decent statistical representation of that population. I assume you understand this.

Beyond that, a wholesale boycott of ABC -even if it accomplished nothing else- might prevent fine DU'ers from rotting their brains. Network tv sucks ass.

[Sydnie]

27. Right - see my post # 15

It's not just the Nielsen boxes either. It's any dvr service. They track their subscribers habits too.

If you have a Tivo .. you have seen the Thumbs up recomendations. If you get their newsletters, you can read then report on the most viewed shows because they know what they are serving you.

Check out this page - http://www3.tivo.com/tivo-tco/index.do
Scroll down to the middle and check out the boxes on the right, starting with "New! What They're Watching", then see "Don't Miss This !", and finish up with "Most-Recorded Shows".


They know. And they don't mind telling you that they know.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

32. Tivo Can Track, But It Is Irrelevant Data To The Networks Themselves.

It means NADA in the realm of marketing power to advertisers or indsutry standard ratings numbers. I think someday it might evolve to that, but right now that's the way it is.

[Sydnie]

46. Oh but you are wrong wrong wrong

They put replay tv out of business because of the built in ability to skip commercials. You think the advertisers are not paying attention to the double edged sword that is tivo? You see, they can see what you are watching and what you are recording so they think they should advertise during that show. But, Tivo allows you to fast forward through the commercials, so they think that maybe they shouldn't advertise on those shows because they will cost more and they might not get seen.

Tivo was toying with the idea of overlaying commercials every time you fast forwarded through the commercial that was sent with the program to appease the advertisers. That means, that while you are scanning through a commercial, tivo would serve you a static ad over the moving video in the background. I know they did it because it happened on my box. I saw it with my own eyes. It was only a test at the time, but it doesn't mean it won't become more prevalent in the future for them to do it.

Advertisers are paying attention to what dvr watchers are viewing. As the technology becomes more important, it will become even more valid for them to do so. Right now Nielsen is trying to piggy back on tivo by selecting boxes like mine to "tap into". There is no special software installed, they just get my viewing habits from tivo with my permission. They track ME, but they look at the total from tivo and other services like it just the same as a whole.

Ever have one of those interactive remotes from your cable provider? I have. They can track that signal too. Believe it.

[IChing]

116. He doesn't listen

or admit he doesn't really know.

Well, time to drive my suv 9 miles to walmart and back.
but I will keep preaching.

[bvar22]

53. If you are watching TIVO,

TIVO is watching YOU!

[Sydnie]

58. EXACTLY

And they are providing that info collectively to anyone that will pay for it. Nielsen included. As are cable companies, all dvr services, and probably satelite services as well.

If they can tap our cell phones, they can tape our viewing habits.

[Erika]

61. Nielsen is archaic as a reliable source. n/t

[seabeyond]

4. scholastic wouldnt have done what they did, if we didnt do what we did

and that operate was a very very good thing. and everyone is aware of the lies. another good thing. when they watch, after hearing hwat has happened they will be tons more disgusted, not only in the know.

i dont care if it shows or not. i am not into censor, though i think ths show warrants it. i also believe free market, and if a majority or loud enough voice gets it off, then so be it. it is one a few powerful dont let voice that it is censorship to me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. I'm Prouder Than Hell What We As A Grassroots Community Have Accomplished.

I'm also prouder than hell of our Dems during this as well. They've done a stellar job.

[bliss_eternal]

96. Then why didn't you say that in your original post?

:shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

98. Didn't Need To. Wasn't What This Thread Was About. Jesus Christ Already

[bliss_eternal]

101. If you didn't mean any harm, yes you did need to.

.

[Jcrowley]

5. The solution

[stillcool]

12. excellent... n/t

[Irreverend IX]

123. Indeed.

TV is mind-numbing garbage. I haven't watched it for nigh on eight years, and I can't imagine being so bored and devoid of options for entertainment that I would sit still in front of the idiot box.

[Erika]

6. Excuse me. Nielsen is so yesterday

And has nothing to do with today's media tracking.

[OwnedByFerrets]

7. Not that I doubt you , but where does this information come

from. I honestly want to know.

[Erika]

8. Home sites know how many times they've been hit

It's that simple.

[bainz]

19. Home sites know what?

what does "Home sites know how many times they've been hit" mean? Is this a new TV/Cable/SAT term I am not aware of?

[Erika]

25. Huh?

All sites know who and how many has opened them.

[bainz]

39. I 4g0t @bout teh tubez

OK Erika, let's follow the thread.

You said:
6. Excuse me. Nielsen is so yesterday

He said:
7. Not that I doubt you , but where does this information come

You said:
8. Home sites know how many times they've been hit

I said:
19. Home sites know what?

You said:
25. Huh?

All sites know who and how many has opened them.


You are aware this is a topic about Television, right?

I will refrain from challenging you on the tubes and dump trucks that make up the "home pages".

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. Are You Just Making Things Up For Sake Of Being Contrary?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Nielsen ratings are still the main driver of advertising dollars to a network.

[Erika]

13. Making things up to be contrary?

Niesen is archaic and no longer used. Or post proof otherwise. Thank you.

[WildEyedLiberal]

23. You're the one making the assertion; the burden of proof is on you

You seem to have a tendency to spout some "fact" no one's ever heard of and assert it to be true without providing a shred of evidence for it. How about a link so the rest of us know WTF you're talking about? Your posts in this thread make zero sense.

[Erika]

31. How do you think the TV stations know their weekly ratings?

It certainly isn't from Nielsen.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

35. With All Due Respect Erika, Repeating Over And Over Doesn't Make It Any

more true than the first time you said it. And it isn't true. :rofl:

[Erika]

41. How do the cable stations get their ratings weekly

Neilsen?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Yes. Now Get Over It.

[Erika]

54. Get over it? Get real.

I do not understand your hostile and rude posts.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. Did You Read The Link I Provided For You? Please Do. Thanks.

[maddezmom]

48. looks like it, here is a link

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/portal/site/Public/menuitem.43afce2fac27e890311ba0a347a062a0/?vgnextoid=9e4df9669fa14010VgnVCM100000880a260aRCRD&show=%2FFilters%2FPublic%2Ftop_tv_ratings%2Fcable_tv

[WildEyedLiberal]

119. Did you not read what I said?

Let me put it in all caps for you:

IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE AN ASSERTATION, PLEASE PROVIDE SOME SORT OF PROOF/EVIDENCE TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIM.

- What the hell are you talking about?

- Please submit proof to back up your theory that Nielsen is not where ratings are determined

- Please provide full information, with links, to this "new" system that tracks ratings

You seem to be an expert about this, so finding this evidence shouldn't be too hard for you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

28. ROFLMAO! Are You For Real? I Don't Know How You Convinced Yourself Of

this concept, but it isn't accurate.

It'll take ya all of 10 seconds on google yourself to see you are wrong. I'm not going to waste my time copying a thousand links to the obvious. But then I wouldn't feel the need to paste a thousand links proving that humans breath air either.

[Erika]

34. My sentiments exactly

Glad you caught on. Thanks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. Here. Please Read This So That You Can Be More Informed. Thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_Ratings

[Erika]

21. Your post offends me

I dislike your accusation strongly.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. There. I Made A Minor Alteration To It.

[Erika]

36. How "nice" of you

Neilsen is irrelevant.

[bliss_eternal]

78. Yes it is...

:hi: not at all relevant. What's relevant is everyone doing what they can, where they can to allow their voices to be heard.

[praeclarus]

68. one way is Tivo...

If you have satellite and Tivo, it calls home
(over the phone) and spills its guts. Not sure
about cable.

My solution to that was to not plug in a phone
line to it.

My next solution was to get rid of Tivo, TV,
Satellite, and the whole kit and kaboodle but I
digress.

Anyway, I think the OP is bullshit. Look at what
the sentiment has resulted in. ABC might actually
pull the thing.

Not watching is a fine idea too. Nielsen ratings
are a sample and represent the whole. It will
get noticed.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. The OP Had Nothing To Do With The Emails, The Phonecalls, The Outrage,

etc...

Not sure why you felt the need to call it bullshit. In fact, it isn't just related to this ABC debacle. It is in general towards any tv program. If you want to impact the real ratings, you have to be a nielsen household. That's the only point this OP is making, ABC or not.

[Erika]

76. You don't understand how things are done in today's world

do, you?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

81. Why Are You Harrassing Me?

You have posted a dozen times already and have yet to provide any substance to your argument.

So have you clicked on the link I provided yet?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[praeclarus]

82. because you're wrong.

Also somewhat naive I think.

See my post below. (edit: Post #92).

[shortcake]

14. Obviously not. n/t

[Sydnie]

15. I currently have a Nielsen TIVO and

TIVO certainly DOES track the viewing habits of their subscribers. Tivo could tell you the next morning just how many times the Janet jackson boob was replayed through their software ... and they did tell it publicly. I would venture to say that anyone with a satellite dish, dvr/tivo, and cable can be tracked in some manner or other.

If people aren't watching, they aren't buying anything BECAUSE it was advertised on that station. Now, national companies hedge their bets and advertise on all the networks. Local businesses, however, usually pick a station and stick with it because they get a better deal purchasing in bulk from one source.

It is the perfect meeting of the saying "Think Globally - Act Locally" as far as I am concerned.

I will boycott ABC and I will be noticed, both by the local businesses that don't catch my dollars and the tivo trackers and Nielsen too.

It's a win win as far as I am concerned. If you have a dvr service at all, they will notice.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

20. Cool! You're A Nielsen Household? You Matter Then.

:)

[stillcool]

26. thank you...

every time a boycott is mentioned certain posters tend to throw water on it. This whole ratings thing seems such a silly argument. It's very much like our political debate...where the talk has nothing to do with the walk. Making choices and taking conscious actions to benefit you and your world are not a waste of my time. Watching bullshit propaganda that dirty's my beautiful mind most certainly is.

[kiranon]

16. DocuDrama is Political Advertising/ Right to Know Who Paid

The DocuDrama is running without commercials. It is essentially a political advertisement. ABC should be required to inform the public who is paying for it under campaign finance laws.

[Erika]

18. We are all interested in who paid for this baloney

We'll see.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. I Agree Completely.

[IChing]

22. BTW last year I was a Nielson person and never got a box but a survey

Which I was supposed to record my watching because I had satellite.
I still have the papers from Nielson to prove it.

Boycotts work on products not on stations.
Boycott the sponsors then tell the station you are boycotting the product they sponsors

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. Exactly! The Sponsors Are What Matters.

[Pirate Smile]

24. Here is an excellent diary from Daily Kos about where to apply the

pressure, i.e. what really matters to ABC/Disney.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/8/12711/37922

Pressuring ABC: What You Should Know About the TV Biz

by Rippe
Fri Sep 08, 2006 at 09:07:11 AM PDT

In my twenty-year marketing career, I've purchased over a million dollars in television advertising on behalf of my clients. To do justice to those ad buys, I've had to learn the inner-workings of the TV business - ratings, programming, news, promotions, spot production and of course, the buying process itself.

I've read most of the fantastic diaries this week about the pressure we're exerting on ABC in advance of its Clinton-bashing fiction piece, "The Path to 9/11." If you'll indulge me, I'd like to add a few notes to that conversation that seem to be missing from previous posts.

If I do this right, we'll have even more actionable ways to put the hurt on the Advocating Bush Company (ABC, for the acronym-challenged).


Rippe's diary :: ::
There are a few items that you might find interesting...

Networks care about two things, and you're not one of them.

There are three "A's" in the world of television. In order of importance to the networks, they are:

1. Advertisers
2. Affiliates
3. Audience

Ad revenue is king. Much of the commercial time is sold months in advance, in the spring, during a season called "upfront." This is when networks preview their fall schedule for major advertisers and advertising agencies. The networks project certain ratings for each program (more on that below), and offer discounted ad rates to the agencies that buy large ad schedules well in advance. By doing this, the networks "sell out" a large percentage of their commercial inventory long before the fall season even begins. Shows that were well-received during the upfront period will have premium price tags on them later, when inventory is more limited. TV advertising is sold on a supply/demand system, and one advertiser can "bump" another by offering a higher rate.

"The Path to 9/11" is airing with "limited commercial interruption," according to ABC - but the sponsors and advertisers that are involved purchased their airtime months ag. Their participation in this "movie" is linked to other ABC ad buys. In other words, the more they bought on ABC this fall, the lower the rates went. It's for this reason that you won't see a lot of advertisers pulling out of the show - because their ad rates in "Path" are inextricably tied to their ad rates elsewhere on ABC.

So how should the netroots pressure advertisers, if they're unlikely to pull out and jeopardize their "Grey's Anatomy" rates? The only real effective route is organized boycott. Individual boycotts (you and I sending emails that threaten to boycott) are viewed as anecdotal, even in large numbers. Organized boycotts - those with the strength of group influence - are much more likely to cause and advertiser to think twice, and to subsequently distrust the future "sales pitches" of the offending networking (ABC). This is why Focus on Family is occasionally effective - because the boycott effort is organized and influenced.

If ad revenue is king, then keeping affiliates happy is, well, queen. Your local ABC affiliate depends on the network to produce solid programming - especially programming that leads directly in or out of locally-produced newscasts.

The local affiliate has only a few commercials to sell in the network programs, because the majority of ads have already been bought by national advertisers (see above). Where the local affiliate makes its money is in their own newscasts, where they control (and make) 100% of the advertising inventory.

Telling the local affiliate that you won't watch "The Path to 9/11" is like throwing a lawn chair off the Titanic; it's meaningless because they control so little of the ad revenue there. The only real way to pressure the local affiliate is to stop watching their news. If you do that, the affiliate will exert its pressure uphill, to the network. And the network can hardly afford to piss off its affiliates.

THIS IS IMPORTANT: many of you have been sending emails to your local affiliates via their websites. Those emails, in the vast majority of cases, are going to the affiliate's Program Director. To be effective, you must send your emails to the General Sales Manager. He/she is the one person most concerned with the boycotts, news viewership, and the correlation between ratings and ad revenue.

Find a complete list of ABC affiliates here.

Finally, there's you, the audience. Obviously, the networks all want to "win" their timeslots - to attract the largest number of viewers during a specific time period. But ad revenue is not based on how many people watch - it's based on how many people are expected to watch.

TV works on a "ratings projection" system. Both the network and the local affiliate estimate the number of viewers for a particular program, and base their ad rates on those estimates. Essentially, they pull these numbers out of their collective asses, over inflating audience projections to garner the highest ad rates. Savvy media buyers will insist on what's called a "point guarantee" - that is, an agreement that if actual audience levels fail to meet projections, the ad rate will be retroactively lowered and credited.

But the moral to the story is simple: of the three "A's", the advertisers and affiliates can inflict substantially more pain on the network than the audience.

But there is a fun way for the audience to be heard.

If you own a DVR, read this.

Your cable or satellite company (DirecTV, Dish Network) is reporting to ABC (and the other networks) what programs you have on a "timer." If your DVR, for instance, is set to record "Desperate Housewives" or "Grey's Anatomy," ABC likely knows it. And those ratings projections will go up, along with ad rates, and finally, the profit in Mickey's pocket.

Last night, I deleted all my ABC timers. There's a fairly good chance that I'll still watch "Desperate Housewives" when it debuts on the 24th, but I won't give ABC the benefit of knowing that in advance. And certainly, you should not DVR "The Path to 9/11."

I could go on, but I'll stop there. I appreciate you making it this far!

If you have questions, I'll hang around the comments!

[REP]

65. Thanks for Posting This

I just recently got DirecTV and a non-TiVo DVR, and it's nice to know my non-Nielson recording of Olbermann, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and a whole lot of a cartoons now counts for something!

Too bad I never watched ABC or Disney before so I have nothing to delete from my timers. I have long loathed Disney before this recent chapter; my distain dates back decades.

[chat_noir]

67. Pirate, this post deserves/demands a thread of its own

...here in GD and in the Activist Forums.

Thanks!

[Pirate Smile]

89. Will do! I haven't been online as much as usual and since this was

a recommended thread on Daily Kos all day (and an important one IMO), I had assumed it had gotten some DU play.

I'll post it in both forums.

edit to add - GD http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2089137&mesg_id=2089137
AHQ - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=106x28911

[Sydnie]

72. Thank you

that proves the point I was trying to make.

[GreenTea]

30. Simply tell EVERYONE you know NOT to watch!

Don't be counted - I won't watch a second.

[aikoaiko]

40. i thought cable companies were tracking viewing habits too ...

...to determine advertising rates.

[GreenTea]

52. They do---don't watch!

[bliss_eternal]

42. So if it's so futile, why are you wasting your time telling us all

what we should or should not be doing? :eyes:

:wtf:

[Name removed]

47. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[U4ikLefty]

43. It's Disney....not just ABC.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. It's Whatever Channel Applies. Pick One. Doesn't Much Matter. The Point

is still valid.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BurtWorm]

56. Disney is not just TV

It's a brand on a lot of shit. You don't need to be registered by Nielsen to wind up with a lot of Disney crap in your house. Of course, you could just not buy anything with the Disney brand for a while as part of a national movement, just to see if they felt the pain.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. Of Course. But I Hope You Know I'm Not Criticizing The Merchandise/Service

boycott concept. This thread is referencing only the "change your channel and don't watch" concept. And not just for ABC or this instance, but just the general overall mentality some have of thinking that when they change the channel the networks notice.

As far as putting the pressure on Disney goes, absolutely. I saw a thread earlier from someone who said their boss cancelled a huge Disney stay or something like that. Now THAT type of stuff is effective!

[bliss_eternal]

105. If people e-mail the networks and say "I'm changing the channel"

they will notice. If they e-mail the people that produce the shows on that channel and say, "...I'm not watching anymore" they will notice.

If people e-mailed Oprah's show alone and said "buh-bye Oprah...your network are liars and I won't be watching you, buying your magazine, etc." They will notice.

I'm sorry, but I didn't notice, where did you state your credentials that qualify you as an expert on boycotting techniques.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

106. There Is No Mention In The OP Dealing With Emails. Wrong Context.

It is a very simple and direct concept here: If you aren't a nielsen household, you aren't being counted towards the ratings.

Had nothing to do with emails, phonecalls, purchases etc.. Not sure why your posts keep attempting to turn this thread into something it isn't.

Goodnight now.

[U4ikLefty]

109. Ummm, part of boycotting IS writing letters informing the entity

being boycotted that they will be losing business. This is part of a sucessful boycott. If you are ignorant of the concept, perhaps you should've kept you fingers quiet.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

111. The OP Was Limited To The 'Change The Channel' Concept Only.

That is the only issue this OP is addressing: The issue of tv ratings and how they are impacted. It is very clear that is what the context was about.

All the other methods of boycott are not part of this OP at all, as I have sent dozens of emails already and place tons of phonecalls already as well. I am doing my part to raise awareness to the injustices of this mockumentary as much as anyone else. This OP was not about that. It was solely about ratings and that not just anyone who owns a tv can affect them by just changing the channel.

[U4ikLefty]

117. Wrong. You are attempting to limit the discussion to "ratings"

"I know you all mean well with this boycotting ABC stuff, but please understand that it is a futile concept."

This quote directly atacks the concept of boycotting as "futile."

"The whole marketing of TV revolves around a very simple concept: Ratings."

Really, well then tell me why was Donahue taken off the air? It had the highest ratings at the time. You see, television ADVERTSING DOLLARS are partially dependent on Neilsen, but the sucessful marketing of an entire mega-media corporation (Disney) relies on much more that ratings.

[bliss_eternal]

110. You are the one making contradictory statements

to support your original post. You said one thing in the original post, then as members are calling you on it, you contradict yourself.

:rofl::spray::rofl:

Can't keep your backpedaling and double-talk straight, 'huh?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

112. No, It Has Been The Same Message Throughout. Please Backup Your Assertion

with proof.

The message was a simple one that I've been consistent with throughout: If you aren't a nielsen household, you can't impact the ratings of any tv show by just changing the channel. That's all this was about. I don't know why you continue to feel the need to post a dozen times trying to turn this into something it isn't.

Goodnight now.

[bliss_eternal]

114. Ooops...

You're so right...I made a mistake, I AM Better than THIS,...(this thread). :)That IS what you said, right.

[Singular73]

63. Disney is a carefully crafted brand.

They care not about the protests and anger, but over the media coverage of the outrage, protest, and anger.

They'll pull this thing.

[Sonnabend]

64. No., they wont.

n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

66. I'm Thinking You May Just Be Right. Hoping So Too. The Dem Leadership

really helped out with this as well, as did an amazing webroots movement. I think in the end they very well may pull it, but I'm still not quite holdin my breath ya know?

[IChing]

69. Thats why many here do not shop at Walmart or drive a SUV

It is each individual act of consciousness that makes the world change
The change must start with yourself.

[U4ikLefty]

79. Exactly...lol!

That was a good one.

[Joey Liberal]

70. Bullshit - Boycott ABC n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. No, Not Bullshit. But Thanks For Saying So While Failing To Provide Any

substantial reasoning.

[bliss_eternal]

80. Broken record technique...

Think that's effective when you're insulting an entire board?

[McCamy Taylor]

75. Trash talk ABC, Boycott Disney, Boycott ABC's Biggest Sponsors

[Roxy66]

77. Direct T.V. tracks shows with the "Whats Hot" feature...

You can actually view what shows have the most viewers at any given moment. Sadly Fox always seems to be at the top of the list under the "News" heading.

[Erika]

84. No Neilsen? Surprise Surprise n/t

[bainz]

90. You are almost there

I suppose you are going to enlighten us all on how this drives network ratings.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

85. In Spite Of Some Of The Overdramatized Reactions, This Thread Was

started with an innocent and well thought out message to inform with good intention. Some have completely taken the concept astray and turned it completely into something it wasn't.

This thread was to state one thing and one thing only: The Real ratings come from Nielsen, and to be part of it you generally have to be a Nielsen household. Simple point. That's all it was.

Thankfully at least the first few posters got this message before it was tainted and undermined completely by others seeking to hijack the thread.

[Erika]

87. Oh BS

And I mean BS.

[praeclarus]

88. it wasn't really that well thought out

And I actually had to read it a few times
to try to decide where you were actually coming
from with this.

Now you are getting sort of spastic trying to
defend your narrow concept of the Nielsen box
- if it ain't in my house, they won't know.
Which is actually correct.

However, the fact remains that the TV networks
know who is watching what. And that is the main
point.

Look at it the other way. As you said yourself
"The whole marketing of TV revolves around a very
simple concept: Ratings."

But by your own argument the whole marketing of TV
is a futile exercise since, as you keep saying over
and over and over..... they won't notice.

[Erika]

92. Welcome

You have a good sense of reasoning.

[praeclarus]

93. thanks :)

I had made another point up above but it
got deleted. Dunno why, it wasn't nasty or
anything.

[bliss_eternal]

91. I take it the deletion period is over...

and you can't edit the post now, so you are going to backpeddle and try to tell us you "didn't mean it that way."

Well, it's there for everyone to see. Tone and all. Your subject line wasn't very nice and your responses to our criticisms weren't either.

If you sincerely didn't mean any harm, you would have apologized for the way it came off.

When people don't mean something, and others (allegedly)misunderstand, those with no intention of ruffling feathers, hurting feelings, etc, tend to say that they are sorry--not defend their remarks by making more nasty remarks.

[Erika]

94. I do not like being treated rudely or condescendingly

and told the mods so on this thread.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. Are You Actually Ever Going To Say Anything In Context To This Thread?

You keep posting over and over yet you haven't yet given one reason why you are in disagreement with the OP. I'll ask again, have you read the link I provided for you yet that you requested?

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bliss_eternal]

99. "C'Mon Du'ers we are better than this, smarter than this..."

Excuse me, but what the hell does that imply?

:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

107. Pretty Straight Forward.

It implies that as a community we are generally smarter than to think that the media standard nielsen ratings are affected by EVERYONE who owns a tv just by them changing the channel.

That concept is absurd. I think you have even agreed that it was. So if some continue to spread the concept that simply changing a channel will be seen in the ratings, isn't it appropriate to try and inform that to not be the case for sake of accuracy? Isn't accuracy itself one of the things that makes DU so great?

[bliss_eternal]

108. The implication is clear.

You're right in that your words and their implication are straightforward. Your backpedaling now doesn't change what you said. In fact, you are defending yourself with more presumptive statements.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

113. There Has Been No Backpedaling. I'm Hard Pressed To Know What You're Even

talking about.

[bliss_eternal]

115. Just decided...

I am smarter than this thread, and above responding to this sort of thing...:)

[pinto]

100. A general note about civility. Discuss the message, not the messenger.

It's not breaking news to anyone, but worth mentioning at times. Thanks.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

103. Path to 911 being presented commercial free so no advertisers to boycott

Clever of them... Can anyone remember a time when something was produced

at a cost of 40 million dollars and there were no sponsors??


Just who in the HELL financed this CRAP???????

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

104. That's One Of The Most Disturbing Aspects Of This Whole Thing IMHO.

[upi402]

118. Wadda we want? -"MODERATION"

wenda we wannit? - "IN DUE COURSE"

[wiley]

120. Yours is a condescending post. And so Wrong.

Our threats of boycotts and "turning of the TV" have sent shockwaves through the entire industry.

The only network outlets that made money last year were Fox and Disney.

ABC is banking almost their entire foundation of ad revenue sales forecasts on Lost and Grey's Anatomy.

Every little phone call,e-mail and call to boycott lowers asking prices.

There is no built in plan if their ad prices don't increase after week two.

They can't trip over themselves fast enough to buy up the Internets to increase their rapidly dwindling TV markets.

Why do you think they are rushing to have their shows sold on iTunes and other places?

Disney/ABC pulls this highly divisive, blatantly partisan Republican propaganda piece off the air, or we don't watch their shows.

Sponsors don't need to see any Nielsen ratings to grab a Network by the throat to tell them their this will cost them dearly.

It's rough when a potential consumer, let alone current consumers, let everyone know they won't be watching their shows.

Potential sponsors are demanding multiple market test showings before they commit to a price for anything nowadays.(RW Conservative and Christian groups know this, and often attempt to pack the groups)

Disney/ABC made a HUGE mistake.

I think the "market" called America is just a little angry about the inability or unwillingness of said networks to provide them with facts in the last couple of years.

Now they are trying to sell lies and manipulated interpretations as based on the 9/11 Commission Report?

My RW Republican father tore his Nielsen box off his TV today to demonstrate his anger with Disney/ABC.
I explained to him that he won't be able to watch several football games at once anymore since he also ripped out a cable that they will make him wait weeks to repair, but he gave me that are you or are you not an enemy of my country look and I just stopped talking.

He says first they told him that all the radical information was being created by those "liberal" bloggers.

He now gets why TV always seems to be attacking and tearing down "bloggers and that Internet"

He is so enraged about the whole WMD thing that kept him glued to the TV cheering on those tough on terrorist Republicans (I forgive him anything. Tom Kean only yesterday was one of the "good" men. He's a WWII vet who lost some of his hearing but will never wear a hearing aid) that he told the grandkids he's not paying for any trips to Disney this year as promised. So they get to watch that Narnia DVD non-stop for a couple of days and play on the beach on the West coast of Florida where a dwindling number of his buddies live.

But, my old man now thinks that you "kids" just may be the only people capable of actually telling the truth. I would not want to be at that Jersey VFW hall if Tom Kean's boy happens to stop by. He has a message to give to his dad. And he'll argue like hell with anyone who tries to say lying about history is ever okay. He's a good man. You just can't try to trick him or play with his trust.

(I fixed the cable so he can watch c-span and he likes it.)

Anyway, I digress. I think you DU people are incredibly spot on.

Oh wait, I'm one of us. Didn't mean to speak down at you or anything.

[0007]

131. I vote for you post as being the best rallying point

for ALL DUers.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((EXCELLENT))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

"Sponsors don't need to see any Nielsen ratings to grab a Network by the throat to tell them this will cost them dearly"

Thank you for bringing sanity to thread.

[mhatrw]

121. Almost Completely Wrong.

Please educate yourself about what we can and cannot do:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/8/12711/37922

[upi402]

122. i boycotted grapes, coors beer, now ABC

i do what i can and don't expect every single thing to change the world.
ORGANIZED boycotts and political groups are exponentially more powerful. And if you have a gimmick too...

[tkmorris]

124. There's something you're missing though

While you are correct that simply not watching ABC will not directly affect it's ratings or advertising dollars (excluding the DVR recording effect), nonetheless what WE do will have an effect on what OTHERS do.

I have witnessed this effect many times in my life. When I become passionate about some show or other activity, it affects others. And those others affect still others. Eventually, the impact will reach those golden few who have Nielson boxes, and those in smaller markets without boxes who merely keep logs, like another poster above. I daresay that in American society about 5% of the people drive the trends that 90% follow. The other 5% are the strange birds that neither affect anyone elses habits, nor care what they think. Once you start a ball rolling AWAY from ABC, it will grow if the impetus is strong enough.

The entertainment industry, of which network television is a part, is merely a series of fads. Affect the fad, and you affect the ratings, eventually.

If I turn my TV away from ABC, or even off altogether, but do it in a vacuum it will accomplish nothing. However, if I make a BUTTFULL of noise about doing it and why I am doing it, it will have a ripple effect. It's more about the noise you make than about the actual action. See what I'm saying?

[bliss_eternal]

125. What you've said makes so much sense...

...but I doubt it got through to those it's intended for. Stubborn is as stubborn does. Great post, though--thanks for sharing your insights! :hi:

[RollergirlVT]

126. Exactly!

Nielson may be the rating record keeper but of course there is the simple matter of principle. Do you or do NOT support a major network that uses the public airwaves to pollute the minds of their viewers with malicious propaganda? Is this matter of such insignificance to you that you can't find something better to do than watch Grey's Anatomy? I enjoyed watching Lost, Housewives, and Grey's, but I will not in the future. I can find other things to do that might actually improve the world instead of using Nielson boxes as an excuse to allow this betrayal to go on without consequence. Its just a matter of principal. If enough people get tired of this BS long enough maybe more and more people will shut off their TV's and PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON THEIR WORLD!

[Sydnie]

133. You're dead on right

The "water cooler" works both ways. It can get buzz going for something or it can get buzz going against something. That is why companies often ask how you heard about their product or services. Word of mouth is VERY powerful and something that they can not address directly.

ABC has shot themselves in the foot here. With both the liberal and conservative side talking about the poor historical quality of this film, including asking their audiences not to watch it, they have found their rock and their hard place and it's not pretty. They have also cemented the idea that this might not be the only thing that ABC might be willing to mislead them on. Not good for their news division no matter how you slice it.

"Changing the channel" and telling your family and friends that you are doing so WILL have an impact. Emailing/phoning the company and letting them know that you are doing it and actively spreading the word to your network will get their attention. It will also get the attention of those that purchase the ads because they will have a powerful bargaining chip when setting the rate that they will agree to pay in the future comes into the equation.

Thanks for your post. It's appreciated very much.

[MysteryToMyself]

127. Money is what they understand

We need to take names of everyone that sponsors it, if it isn't changed. Or we could even write random sponsors we see on ABC and tell them we are not buying their product because they are supporting ABC with their ads.

They do know what you are watching, if you have satellite. Those things work both ways and record what you watch. We have 4 boxes. I bet that confuses them.

We need lists and I'm sure they are out there somewhere.

[MadHound]

128. You can't effect the official ratings without a Nielsen box, no.

However you can effect the unofficial ratings, that is if you've got dish or digital cable. You see, if you get your television via one of those two methods, yes indeed, they know what you're watching, every single minute. In fact the TV networks are going to start using this info in order to target specific ads to specific demographics.<http://www.hollywood.com/news/detail/id/468650>

So, if you have one of those two mediums, yes, you can effect ratings directly. Manipulating the media, it isn't just for Nielsen anymore.

[Junkdrawer]

129. He he he...Disney/ABC's scared...he he he...

Good. They should be.

[Coexist]

130. If you TiVo or have a DVR - you ARE invited to the party.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

134. I'll be watching football

The Manning Bowl to be specific. Lucky me, I'm a Colts fan and will be way too busy to watch. Encourage people to watch the first ever brother quarterback vs. brother quarterback football game. Should be easier to convince some of the rednecks anyway.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

135. Giants Fan Here. Wanna Place A Friendly Wager? LOL

[dsc]

136. not necessarily

If you have a DVR you count too. Don't record the movie with your DVR.

[treestar]

137. It's more subtle than that

If you don't watch, you aren't exposed to their advertisers. Their advertisers get their names through to you less often.

The Nielsen box is useless if it does not somehow statistically reflect actual viewership. So if huge numbers of Democrats stop watching, some of them must have the box to reflect that. If not, Nielsen is useless to them and they'd go out of business or suffer considerably less business because they aren't providing the product the ultimate consumer wants. If they do it would be mere coincidence.

If they want to be the propaganda channel, then it's good if you don't get exposed to the propaganda anyway.

[Neecy]

138. It's not just TiVo

I signed onto my DirecTv account last week to change my email account in it - it's the first time I've actually looked at my account data since I got the service three years ago.

I changed the addy and scrolled down to the bottom to confirm the change when I noticed a series of checkboxes with the statement that DirecTv compiles information on viewing habits or some such wording. The first checkbox was for none of your information to be compiled, the second was for SOME of it to be compiled and this was the checked default box - so for three years my viewing habits have been sent to DirecTv via the modem inside my satellite box.

You can bet that I quickly changed this to allow none of my information to be transmitted back to DirecTv - what a violation of privacy, although about all I watch is baseball, news and Link TV - but the point being that these networks know a lot about our viewing habits outside of the ratings.

[JuniperLea]

139. You think cable companies don't report ratings?

:eyes:




We can still watch broadcast TV and not be counted. And many should... and take notes.