I watched the entire docu-drama ...ask me any questions...

[kentuck]

It began with the buildup to the explosion of the first WTC blast in early 1993. It did not show what information was passed on to the Clinton Administration from the first Bush Administration. I suppose we are to believe there was no terrorist activity up to 1993?

[niyad]

1. the ENTIRE thing? my stars, how many drinks do you need? this is

DEFINITELY service above and beyond, my friend.

[kentuck]

10. Thank you...I did it b/c I don't trust any others perspective above my own

I wanted to form my own opinions about it.

I can say that ABC seemed to make the "movie" under the assumption that we should have been at "war" - not police actions- before 9/11 the same as after 9/11. I have not read the 9/11 Commission Report, however, I thought the relationship between the Northern Alliance leader, Massoud(sp?) and the CIA very interesting. Massoud and Osama were arch enemies. He was assassinated, I think, two days before 9/11?

I thought the depiction, probably not intended by ABC, showed the Clinton Administration took the "terrorism" as both a law enforcement issue and a "soft" military issue combined - but not as a full blown war. I don't see why that should be criticized in hindsight?

There were comments about Monica Lewinski and issues of military engagement and treatment of prisoners, etc, that I thought were extraneous and unrealistic for the times before 9/11. For example, why did they worry about killing children and innocents when they had a chance to get Osama? That was not realistic at that time, in my opinion. If it had been post-9/11, they may have had a better argument, but not necessarily.

Also, I think George Tenet assisted in the making of the movie, as well as the reporter, Miller - and the the lady that worked in the NSA named "Patricia", just judging from the way they were handled with the scripts. I think they mentioned in the credits at the start of the movie that Thomas L Kean was like a "co-executive producer" or some similar title?

Bottom line, it was probably more critical of the Clinton Administration than it should have been, and there were a few instances where they went overboard, but it was not as bad as I thought it might be. If they give equal weight to Bush's performance up to 9/11, then I would not be too critical of the "movie". However, if they portray it as Bush, the courageous leader not afraid to go to war - unlike Clinton - then they will have done a disservice...

[AZBlue]

36. That's the same reason I watched it.

The woman you mentioned...Patricia...I didn't know who that was either. I looked it up on imdb.com - it was Patricia Carver, a CIA analyst. Every link I found on her said the same thing: "a top CIA analyst CIA analyst who prodded her superiors to take further action against terrorism."

That scene with her in the conference room was very unbelievable and it, plus that quote, make sense if she was involved in the film - perhaps a little guilt assuaging there?

[kentuck]

40. I think it was interesting that Thomas L Kean was paid as an adviser...

and title.. I take it that is former Gov. Kean who sat on the 9/11 Commission? Wonder what Lee Hamilton thinks about that?

[AZBlue]

42. It is the one and the same!!

Yeah, I'm surprised we haven't heard Lee weigh in on this yet.

[question everything]

44. Will you be watching tomorrow part, too? (nt)

[kentuck]

47. No...

I would like to watch the first 30 minutes to see how they treat the first 8 months of the Bush years but I will be at work...

[question everything]

51. Perhaps someone else will

I did not watch tonight and have no intention of watching it tomorrow, but I've read that they treat the Bush administration the same, allowing that he was only 8 months in his office.

As mini series go, viewing usually drop for the consecutive nights, especially, as with you, the first installment is on a weekend and the second - weekend.

[Straight Shooter]

2. Did they depict Clinton with red horns or black horns? n/t

[tarndter]

3. I'm a little embarrassed to say this but...

...I wasn't aware that WTC was bombed in 1993.

[niyad]

7. welcome to DU. don't feel embarrassed--we all miss things.

[PennyK]

12. My father-in-law was working there then.

New Yrk State had a lot of offices there then.

[kentuck]

13. I guess Bush Sr forgot to warn Clinton the same way that Clinton...

warned Bush Jr...about Osama and al Qaeda?

[EarlG]

4. I watched some of it

One bit that stuck out to me was during the zany discotheque scene when one of the terrorists mentioned fighting with bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan. I thought to myself, "Hang on... why did the movie start in early '93? What about all the stuff that happened BEFORE that?"

I guess the moviemakers didn't want to mention St. Ronald of Reagan and his dealings with the Mujahedeen.

I also noticed the part where ABC burned the American flag. I assume it was a stunt flag, with too many stars or something like that.

[C_U_L8R]

5. Yeah .. i thought Osama's whole grudge started

with Pappy Bush putting US troops on holy Saudi land.

[peekaloo]

6. "stunt flag"

:rofl:

[Selatius]

16. Y'know what I found ironic about the 1980s?

It wasn't about Ronald's support of religious nutjobs in Afghanistan in the 1980s. What I found ironic was the jingoism that was laced into the action films of the era, specifically Rambo III.

John Rambo...helped the Mujahadeen in the 1980s, some of the same guys who would later become "the base" of Al Qaeda, which coincidentally translates into "the base." If John Rambo were a real person and alive today, what would he think now?

Maybe it's not as ironic as much as it's moronic, but you get my point.

[LSK]

18. no mention of how recently Clinton was in office when WTC attack happened

How many people realize he was in office less than 2 months?

[kentuck]

21. No..

..and they did not distinguish between the timelines before 9/11 or after 9/11 - at least not in this first part. I would not hold my breath for it to happen in the 2nd part either. For example, they seemed to criticize the Clinton Administration for not killing Osama when they "said" they had the opportunity - even though there were women and children in his compound. Pre-9/11, that would seem to me to be a very cruel presumption...

[LSK]

24. they = Tenet

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2104220

[kentuck]

25. Mostly Tenet, but also Madelyn Albright and the State Dept..

They referenced back to Waco and Janet Reno a couple of times...

[Raksha]

45. I noticed that too. They seemed to really be glossing over

who was responsible for arming the Taliban in the first place.

Re >>I guess the moviemakers didn't want to mention St. Ronald of Reagan and his dealings with the Mujahedeen.<<

[RoyGBiv]

8. What kind of stimulant did you take?

Ya know, to stay awake through it.

[TahitiNut]

9. Here's what I got out of it. Did you see something else?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/TahitiNut/319

[kentuck]

11. I cannot disagree with your perspective...

But i did not think it totally useless...other than for the propaganda they could not help but indulge in on occasion...

[longship]

14. Splunge?

Well, you did say *any* question. ;-)

[johnnie]

15. How did they approach the Reagan and Bush years?

Or did they make it look like Clinton's penis started terrorism and we had no problem with Bin Laden or a threat of terrorism before Clinton.

[kentuck]

17. No, there was no mention of the First Iraq War or anything before Clinton

Although they did mention that Yousef Ramzi had attacked a mosque in Iran because he was a Sunni and Iran was most Shite? I thought they were trying to connect Saddam to the Sunnis??

[Bluerthanblue]

19. did they really need the scene where Clinton says "I did not have..

sex with that woman..."
That seemed so blaitently.. partisan?... and unnecessiary.

Also, I felt like they were SUPER glamorizing the Northern Alliance warlords- The statement about America thinking 'we' won the cold war, and bin laden believing he had- struck me as kind of profound- in a way i do think there is some credibility in his perspective- especially now, because i don't think we're winning much.... and we are bancrupting ourselves both $ wise, and morally to 'win' this war on 'terra'.

My 13 yr old watched it with me, and he said, "geez, i guess all terrorists play drums eh Mum? " They were big on the drumming to try to build suspense, especially kids drumming....

I was surprised at how hopless this whole 9/11 orgy is making me feel- its over the top, and so glamorized... it only makes my trust in what i know about ANYTHING that the media spits out is actually credible even lower....

What about the fact that WE trained bin laden to fight the 'russians'??? He's in large part a monster of our own making.....


don't know if i can watch the rest tomorrow- hope you'll fill us in-

(edited because my sentences were even less coherent than usual even for me ):crazy:

[kentuck]

23. That was unnecessary..

as were a few other instances. However, I thought it was quite admirable how they tracked down the terrorists that attacked the WTC all over the world, using intelligence and diplomacy to capture them - sometimes in the most desolate villages. They seemed to be much more successful than the Bush Administration, it appeared to me. Someone else will have to watch the second part - I will be at work. :)

[Bluerthanblue]

31. did it strike you odd

that the guy who came in and wanted to 'fess up' about one of the guys they were looking for, when asked for more legitimate info to PROVE that he actually 'knew' the man only jumped in with "well, I know he just lost his laptop"-.... maybe I'm dense, or just plain stupid, but why would he say that?? Did he KNOW they had the lap-top???? It wasn't said by the actor as if he knew they did- but boy did they change their attitude when he did-

Thanks for your feedback- wish I could be more objective- sorry you won't be watching tomorrow-
peace,
blu

[kentuck]

32. I thought he said he had lost his left eye??

Sometimes my hearing is not real good? :)

[Bluerthanblue]

43. geez, now you've got me puzzled...

your version makes alot more sense, but when the agents came out of the room, I thought they said "none of the news reports mentions the laptop" and the informant said something like "yes, now he has a new laptop, he doesn't take it everywhere and he has me take care of it sometimes" it seemed so ...'fake'? and contrived???-
I don't know- the whole thing really seemed so surreal and unrealistic to me-
maybe its just my off-beat point of view- maybe its my hearing :P ??

[kentuck]

49. Yours makesmore sense...

;)

[shugah]

20. i watched it too - liberal hollywood has nothing to worry about

is there anything redeeming about this movie? the propaganda aspect and the lies - oops! i mean fictionalized scenes - aside, this movie is really crap! the script is poorly written at best, the filming is less than fair amateur, there is no sense or coherence from scene to scene. honestly, if this had been submitted to current tv there would have been loads of constructive criticism to make the movie better. even if you keep the lies and propaganda, holding the camera steady will enhance the viewers watching experience considerably.

considering that it was neocon/wingnut/religious fundamentalists that wanted to make this movie in their attempt to wrestle hollywood back from the libs ... hollywood can breathe a sigh of relief. the movie comes across as an amateur effort to copy good film. i bet even the wingnuts couldn't "get into" this movie.

[TheDonkey]

22. Watching movie now, some cheap swipes at Clinton

i also thought the clip of Monica Lewinsky was unnecessary an Clinton's infamous "I did not" speech.


Right now I'm watching the part where Clinton bombed Sudan and in Afghanastan. That was a good segment
to show how republicans bashed Clintons effort as a "wag the dog" rather than supporting his efforts to
target Al-Quida. Of course the movie didn't really dwell on that important point.

[bliss_eternal]

26. Did it make you vomit?

:hug: if so.

[kentuck]

27. Not really...

Nobody here had seen it. Was I supposed vomit on heresay?

[snowbear]

28. Why do Republicans HATE America?

Why?

[kentuck]

I don't know...

I really don't...

[FoxOnTheRun]

29. Did they mention, the FBI ordered the bombing and was recorded on tape?

HE NEW YORK TIMES

* * * * *

Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1

"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"

By Ralph Blumenthal

Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast.

The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F. B. I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.

The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as being in a far better position than previously known to foil the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers.

The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars. Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court in that attack.

Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used by the Government to penetrate a circle of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases: the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the second bombing case, but his work for the Government was erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast, he was feuding with th F. B. I.

Supervisor `Messed It Up'

After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an undated transcript of a conversation from that period, Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent about an unnamed F. B. I. supervisor who, he said,

"came and messed it up." "He requested to meet me in the hotel,"

Mr. Salem says of the supervisor.

"He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn't push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that."

The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to complain to F. B. I. Headquarters in Washington about the Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by an agent identified as John Anticev.

Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,

"He said, I don't think that the New York people would like the things out of the New York Office to go to Washington, D. C."

Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it, saying of the `New York people':

"Well, of course not, because they don't want to get their butts chewed."

http://100777.com/node/97

[kentuck]

30. No, I missed that part...

:)

[seabeyond]

35. was it in the movie? n/t

[magellan]

33. Where did they film the external overseas shots?

Were these sets in CA or did they actually use our military to secure spots in Afghanistan, etc, to film on location?

[kentuck]

34. It appeared to be in Pakistan or Tunisia or some such place...

They had quite a few scenes in the foreign countries...The mountains in the background in Afghanistan looked like the ones that Geraldo was fighting from when he was over there trying to capture Osama....

[magellan]

41. I was just wondering if they diverted US troops

...to keep their film crew safe. We caught all of 10 seconds right as part 2 started, where the muslims were gathering in that ruined building, and I said to hubby, "Those bastards DIDN'T use our troops to protect them so they could film on location, did they?"

[seabeyond]

37. did they have the scene of clinton being shot in the head (picture)

the scene with berger, was it really out there making him look inept and bad as was siad prior and albright, did they say she said something she didnt say?

[kentuck]

39. Yes, it was billboard size on a movie screen...

and some terrorist shot him in the face several times and yelled that "Clinton is Satan!"

[kentuck]

38. I would be interested to know...

how they play up the first eight months of the Bush Adminsitration? How much info is omitted and how much is told? Will they tell about the $40 million he gave to the Taliban? Will they tell about how he turned his back on the Palestinians as their homes were being bulldozed by the Israelis? Will they mention how long he had been on vacation? Will they mention the August 6th PDB? Will they mention how he withdrew the subs off the coast of Afghanistan? Will they mention how he ignored the advice of Clinton and his advisers? Should be able to find that out in the first 30 minutes or so??

[Bluebear]

46. Is Patricia Heaton going to snag an Emmy for it?

:rofl:

[Cobalt-60]

48. Time to detox

I recommend a nice bottle of Kleiner Feigling and nice soothing smoke!!

[kentuck]

50. Maybe the latter...

:)__~~~

[Rex]

52. Where is the pyloric sphincter?

Did the movie have lions, tigers and bears?