Is there any possibility you could forgive *?

[MoonRiver]

I was going to post a poll, but can't do that as we are on Level 3.

Anyway, I've been thinking about this since Keith's speech. I have been wondering if * confessed to every crime he's committed and begged for mercy, could I let my hatred for him go and forgive. It's certainly the ethical thing to do, and reportedly is essential for the healing process to begin.

Don't know if I could though. So many horrors have been committed. Maybe I should just settle for feeling nothing toward him. That in itself would be a blessing.

But that's just me.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. I couldn't have forgiven him even on September 10.

His theft of the election, and position as president, was an immediate insult to me, my family, all citizens of the US and the world, an improbable (and I thought impossible) blight on history for all time.

[MoonRiver]

4. The damage he has done is incalculable.

He is probably the most despicable human being I have ever encountered. I doubt my forgiving him is in the cards. Keith just made me wonder if others could.

[Radio_Lady]

51. Not me. I wonder and think and cogitate about what our country would

be like if we had had PRESIDENT Gore or PRESIDENT Kerry.

Certainly not in the worldwide mess we find ourselves in today.

Unless the House or Senate return to Democratic control this November, I think I am going to be seriously depressed.

[Kahuna]

2. Absolutely no way. I think he is the most vile person to ever

occupy the WH during my lifetime. Plus, he stole the presidency and deprived us of Al Gore who would have been a great president.

[JerseygirlCT]

3. Forgiveness is usually understood to require

sincere repentance.

I have a hell of a time imagining Bush becoming capable of that.

But since this is a hypothetical, then yes. Should he sincerely repent of his mistakes, crimes and evils, I would find a way to forgive.

I wonder about the loved ones of those whose blood is on his hands, however. It might be far tougher for them.

[MoonRiver]

6. We're all his victims, but some obviously more than others.

I can't imagine how families of violent crime victims forgive the killers of their loved ones. Yet some do.

[JerseygirlCT]

7. I'd hope I'd be able to

Fortunately for me, I've not been in that position.

[JerseygirlCT]

5. Sorry, dupe

sincere repentance.

I have a hell of a time imagining Bush becoming capable of that.

But since this is a hypothetical, then yes. Should he sincerely repent of his mistakes, crimes and evils, I would find a way to forgive.

I wonder about the loved ones of those whose blood is on his hands, however. It might be far tougher for them.

[AngryOldDem]

8. Not only no, but HELL no.

What he has done to this country, and to this society, is unforgiveable. We will never recover from this administration and its total disregard for law, as well as for the tenets upon which this nation was founded. I also hold in contempt my fellow citizens who continue to accept this situation unquestioningly, and see anyone who dares to dissent as enemies and threats to the state. They are also complicit in this madness.

[WinkyDink]

9. HELL, NO!! There are about 102,600 reasons.

[UTUSN]

10. Some things are not forgiveable n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. I will never forgive...I will never forget...

Quite possibly for the first time ever in my life.

[MzNov]

12. He's a murderer. Impeach him.

[CarlVK]

13. Yes, if he resigns immediately, and hands himself over to the

world court.

[blonndee]

14. Nope, never. I've never felt such hatred toward any human

being. Maybe not forgiving only hurts me, but I'm not able or willing to let go of the grudge I bear towards him. He has done FAR too much damage to physically, emotionally, and spiritually, to people around the world to ever, EVER deserve forgiveness, by my standards. He and his have broken hearts and spirits that may never recover.

[kwyjibo]

15. Maybe, if we find out he's been suffering from some kind of undetectable

idiotic schizophrenia and everything he's done has been a result of severe psychosis instead of a deliberate plot for money and world domination.

and then of course, he would have to be committed, which I wouldn't feel bad about at all.

[Solly Mack]

16. Bush doesn't merit such consideration.

He's a cancer....you don't forgive cancer...you ah...cure it.

[MoonRiver]

18. We need justice. That's for sure.

Don't know if we'll ever have it, but that would go a long way toward helping me let go of the incredible amount of rage I feel.

[Solly Mack]

20. Justice would help restore some balance

[Greybnk48]

17. not possible...ever n/t

[complain jane]

19. Karl...

I'm just kidding.

After Olbermann's speech I almost felt sorry for W.

[bklyncowgirl]

21. I'll just quote a line from Bob Dylan's "Masters of War"

It applies to Bush perfectly.

"...even Jesus himself couldn't forgive what you do"

[BrotherBuzz]

22. When he's busted down to a Ball Dude for some busted down East Texas...

Semi-pro baseball team, working for dogs and beer...I might consider feeling something. Not!

[Raffi Ella]

23. NEVER

he is an evil cruel small minded STUPID little man.May GOD forgive him for what he's done because I sure as hell NEVER will.

[Dem2theMax]

24. Not in a million years - times a million. nt.

[aaronbees]

25. Well my answer is

no.

[LWolf]

26. Yes.

Forgive? Yes. Hating is more destructive to me than the target, so why not?

Forget? No.

If he were begging for "mercy," just what would that "mercy" entail? Forgiveness, letting go, moving on are good. If "mercy" means a free ride on his criminal charges, a new job, a new post, any new responsibility, or any avoidance of responsibility for the destruction wrought by his tenure, then NO. I can forgive and move on and still hold him accountable.

[mitchum]

27. Not in a million fucking years. He is a monster.

[mitchum]

28. Not in a million fucking years. He is a monster.

[T Town Jake]

29. If Chimpy McGigglenuts resigned immediately...

...I'd think about it.

Two other things would have to happen first: Cheney resigns also, and Dems win the House in November. The Democratic Speaker of the House becomes President on January 3, 2007 after Cheney's resignation as Acting President becomes effective at midnight of January 2nd.

Yep, that would start me on the "forgiveness" path, alrighty...at least stretching to get there...

[Rosco T.]

30. Resign tomorrow, turn States Evidence on the rest of the Cabal...

.. present himself to the Hauge for trial.

that's it.

[dusty64]

31. Nope never

and when the truth comes out no one else will either.

[Connie_Corleone]

32. Hell no.

He's responsible for thousands of death in this country and abroad. He can go to hell for all I care.

[laylah]

33. It would be a VERY

hard choice; however, if I were to remind myself every way from Sunday, that forgiveness is for ME, not him, I may be able to do it. That said, we probably won't be faced with that choice as the bastard will NEVER admit any wrong he has done!

Jenn

[SnakeEyes]

34. I can forgive anyone for anything, I think all humans need the ability to

but one has to at least show remorse first or it be after their passing.

[uppityperson]

37. You can forgive someone just because they died?

wow, you are a good person.

[SnakeEyes]

41. No, not JUST because they died

I am saying after one passes it's easier to come to a point of forgiveness toward them.

[ScreamingMeemie]

42. Is it??? Even though it may have cost the life of one of your loved

ones? So... You're saying that if somebody murdered your loved one, once they were dead all would be forgiven?? :shrug:

[SnakeEyes]

47. You missed my subject line.. "Not just because..."

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Then why else??? I have read your subject line over and over

again and it's really not clear. You mention after they show remorse... or after their passing? Care to clarify??

[uppityperson]

44. So because they are dead, you forgive them?

Forgive them for murdering a loved one? Or robbing them? Wow, you still are a better person than I. I can only forgive if they show a good reason to be forgiven, and simply dying doesn't do it for me.

[SnakeEyes]

48. You didn't even read my response did you?

I said "not just because" or "simply dying" as you have now rephrased it.

[uppityperson]

53. You said "I am saying...

"I am saying after one passes it's easier to come to a point of forgiveness toward them." How or why? I cannot understand how I could come to a point of forgiveness by someone's dying. What are you saying, since you say I am not understanding, have not read your response? Please explain more of how, why, what you are saying so I can understand.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

49. I'm not too sure of your theory

If what you say is true then for you it's now easier to forgive the terrorist who flew those planes into the WTC? Just because they're dead the crimes they committed are now less unforgivable?

[uppityperson]

56. SnakeEyes is not saying "just", am hoping will clarify

I do not understand how a person is more forgiveable after they are dead, am hoping for more clarification from that poster.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. I would not hold my breath... I am still waiting for him/her

clarify on this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2109030&mesg_id=2113640

[uppityperson]

58. patience grasshopper

sometimes these things take time. :toast:

[SnakeEyes]

66. lot of threads, lot of posts, I cant keep track of any and all replies lol

[Lone_Star_Dem]

59. Ahh, I see

But not really. It would appear I'm in need of more clarification also.

[SnakeEyes]

60. I just feel it's different when

that person who has done an injustice to you in some way is still walking, talking, breathing, and living. There is a living person that still exists to project your feelings toward. After death and that person longer exists I find carrying those emotions and feelings a bit easier to drop or at least move on.

Again I am not saying that just dying means I forgive someone. Just that it can be easier to forgive someone after death than when they are still alive

[ScreamingMeemie]

62. So then... by that thinking... we should pull our troops out of

Afghanistan... We should move on from 9/11??? After all those terrorists are dead. :shrug:

[uppityperson]

68. I'm off to bed, carry on!

catch you tomorrow, have fun.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. Good night!

:hi:

[uppityperson]

67. So if they don't show remorse, then die, you can forgive someone

Or at least not hold a grudge? Or are you saying "can" in a nonspecific way, ie:it "can" be easier, not "I can"?

Personally, if someone does something bad, then dies, I still cannot forgive them. I can even hold a further resentment that they were never held responsible for their actions. What say you?

[SnakeEyes]

75. I can but death is no guarantee I will forgive.

I do understand those that hold further resentment after death. That's just not me I guess, not how my brain processes things. Though I am typically not a grudge holding person anyway.

[uppityperson]

80. So, in this instance, would you be more likely to forgive Mr.bush after he

dies, if he were to die without showing signs of remorse, without taking responsibility for his actions, without truly SHOWING he were sorry? Would you be more likely to forgive him after he dies for what he has done and caused to be done? I am not talking in general, forgiveness as time passes after someone dies, but Mr.bush in particular.

[Catherine Vincent]

35. Yes, we can forgive but we will never forget.

n/t

[leesa]

36. No. He needs to be jailed for the rest of his life for all the needless

deaths he has caused.

[frebrd]

38. Forget, but not forgive

If he and all his ilk disappeared permanently, I would simply never think about him again. He would no longer be important enough to warrant my attention!

[Crunchy Frog]

39. There would be a few conditions.

First he would have to have all the members of his administration arrested for treason, following which, he would have to resign the presidency and turn himself over to the authorities for arrest. He would have to make a full confession of his own and other's malfeasances, and express genuine remorse.

Or maybe he could turn himself and the rest of his administration in to the Hague. Something along those lines anyway. No begging for mercy. Take whatever is coming to him like a man, acknowledging that whatever he's getting is nowhere near as bad as he deserves.

If he did all that, yeah, I might be willing to forgive him.

[shadowknows69]

40. Absolutely

if he resigns tomorrow and takes Darth and the Queen of the Damned with him. I'll even ask God to give him a break.

[savemefromdumbya]

43. trouble is he doesn't think he's committed any crimes

he's possesed. The answer is NO

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. Of Course. If The Request Was Sincere And His Revelations Were Pure.

I would forgive anyone under those circumstances.

In the case of Mr.* however, I'm not holding my breath for that about face to occur.

[bamacrat]

46. After he..........

FUCK NO!!! He is the biggest douche to ever inhabit the White House.
:grr: :thumbsdown: :kick:

[haydukelives]

52. No!

Never

[sadiesworld]

54. Hell, I can't forgive Kerry.

(for dropping the election fraud ball, inter alia)

[philosophie_en_rose]

55. Oh hell no.

Matt Lauer (paraphrased): I don't want to gloss over the fact that you're practices have not followed the law.

Bush (exact words): So what!


Dumb fucks like that do not deserve forgiveness.

[Skittles]

61. no

not ever

[WilliamPitt]

63. Sure

Because all this stuff doesn't have anything to do with him.

Blaming Bush for all this shit is like blaming Mickey Mouse when Disney screws up.

The big question isn't whether I can forgive him. The big question is, when he has his Lee Atwarter Moment of Awful Realization, will he have it within himself to ask for forgiveness?

Ask me if I can forgive the men behind him, however, and you'll get a different answer.

[babylonsister]

64. You, as I, can't stand to write his name. Why and how should I

forgive him?

[donheld]

79. "You, as I, can't stand to write his name."

Even a perfectly good letter of the alphabet "W" has been tainted by this man and his cabal.

[helderheid]

65. yes I could if he admitted everything. Only for my own sake.

[Rainscents]

70. NO!!!

[napi21]

71. Yes, I could forgive, buthis confession would have to be coupled

with, "Based upon my failures, I regretfully must resign as of noon tomorrow, and VP Cheney will join me with his resignation." Anything short of that,forget it!

[Wiley50]

72. Why? Not even if I WAS a Xian. No Way!

Guillotine! Guillotine!
Off with their heads!

[NoSheep]

73. no. not him..or any associated with him. the puppets and the masters.

[smtpgirl]

74. Forgiving Bush, while the RW's roasted Clinton's ass

HELL NO, that bastard had Hurricane Warnings, all red flags, that lazy ass did NOTHING, just waiting for $3.00 a gallon gas, FUCK THAT ASSHOLE

[windbreeze]

76. I have to worry about whether he was just lying again....so NO...n/t

[magellan]

77. NO.

NEVER. eom!!

[lumpy]

78. No, not until he can forgive himself.

And you know that will never happen.

[earth mom]

81. NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS!!!

:grr:

[Greyhound]

82. Forgiveness without contrition is a further assault.

He has committed unforgivable, previously unthinkable crimes, and he has no concept of the depths he has dragged this country to.

So, never! :grr:

[Beelzebud]

83. No forgivness for mass murderers.

[Vidar]

84. Not in this lifetime.