Oh wow, should I end my friendship with this person?

[Seen the light]

Been e-mailing a friend of mine for a while and he sent me the following e-mail today:

"9/11 was a great day

Now, don't take that as a bad thing. I Love America, love it's people, and love Freedom.

That being said, without 9/11 the U.S. public would never have the balls to support the liberation of Afghanistan and Iraq. After all, the death of 3,000 people is worth it if it means liberating 60 million people. Honestly, 9/11 was a great thing. It lead to the liberation of millions of people. Sorta like Pearl Harbor.

In short, I believe 9/11 was a great day, because it directly lead to the liberation of 60 million people at minimal loss of American life. Hell, 670,000 Americans died in a war in which the by-product was partial liberation (you know, they were still highly discriminated against) of 9 million slaves. So what's so wrong about losing 5,000 people in a war that mostly liberated 60 million people? It's quite worth it. 9/11 was a great day of Afghanis, Americans, and Iraqis. Except the ones that got killed. The loss of life was very small in proportion to the amount that got liberated because of it. Though I honor the deaths of those who lost their life, 9/11 is still a great day. Osama Bin Laden screwed the Islamofascist Taliban by giving the U.S. balls to take it out and liberate the Afghani people, and screwed over the Totalitarian dictatorship of Saddam Hussein by giving us a (probably fake, but still useable) casuss belli to liberate the Iraqi people."

I hesitate to even post this here because of how inflammatory it is, but this is the thinking that many neoconservatives (which my friend is) have but are afraid to admit. I can't quite describe how upset this e-mail made me. Anybody have some advice?

[timber84]

1. get this crap all the time

btw still like charlotte?

[Seen the light]

2. Haven't been there in a while

Back at school now. :)

[timber84]

4. well come back soon we need more level headed people here!

[Tinksrival]

3. My reply........

If you think Bush's liberation is so great......MOVE THERE!!!!

[amitten]

5. Ask him if he'd be willing to sacrifice himself to "liberate" people

in another country.

Ask him if he'd give up a relative for it. Which one?

Ask him if it was worth the 50,000 or so dead Iraqi civilians.

Ask him if he could spew his callous filth in another direction besides yours.

[Union Thug]

6. Say, "Thanks for the first rate satire! Can you believe some people...

...believe this horseshit? What a gaggle of 'Morans'!"

[133724]

33. excellent post

Laugh at him & his logic...

he who laughs last.... laughs best....

[Occulus]

41. And additionally: people like that HATE being laughed at.

With a PASSION.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

7. The Taliban is back in control in Afghanistan, the heroin crop is bigger

than ever.

We have just lost a huge chunk of Iraq to Al Queda (who weren't there before we invaded)

The 'ones who got killed' number over 100,000 (and don't forget about their families who now hate us enough to join the terrorists)

Women in Iraq now cannot drive, go to school or work, and must wear headscarves for the first time in years.

and you have shit for brains.

(to your ex-friend, not you)

[Seen the light]

11. What really disturbed me was that

he had such an utter disregard for the loss of innocent life. I don't know, this was probably a stupid thread, but I just had to get this off my chest. I've been having to do that more and more lately.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

19. not stupid at all

DU has saved my sanity more than once at times like this, and I've posted many stupider threads. :crazy:

[Rainscents]

12. Great Job! You sum it up!

[nebenaube]

8. in a heartbeat... n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. This is so nuts that I'm not sure there's any possible way to respond.

60 million people were "mostly liberated"?? In which universe might that be? -- certainly it's not this one. "9/11 was a great day of Afghanis, Americans, and Iraqis. Except the ones that got killed. The loss of life was very small in proportion to the amount that got liberated because of it" -- this may be the craziest statement yet. This guy is delusional enough to make Dick Cheney look sane. I would find it very difficult to remain friends with someone who thinks like this.

[EST]

10. "Liberation" is often a euphemism for killing and murdering.

If the clown that wrote this sort of garbage is representative of your friends, ya' need to get out more.
Robert Heinlein's character, Lazarus Long, said it best--
"Remember them as they were then write them off!"

[Mz Pip]

13. Liberated?

In what alternate universe does this person live?

Liberation implies some semblance of stability. Some sense of optimism for the future.

Afghanistan is chaos outside of Kabul.

1/3 of Iraq is controlled by Al-Qaida.

If that's liberation, I'd hate to hear this guys definition of freedom.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[speedoo]

14. Tell him to enlist if he really believes that crap.

You know, so he can make sure about the "liberation."

Either that, or he's a chickenhawk-coward, and you won't have chickenhawk-cowards for friends.

[bullwinkle428]

15. "Mostly liberated"? Is that like "slightly pregnant"?

:wtf:

[madmusic]

16. Do a FoxNews intervention before it's too late...

If it isn't too late yet.

[Diane R]

17. Let me guess.....

...if he was of draft age during Vietnam, he got deferments. If he has kids or grandchildren, he's made certain that none of them are in the military. None of his brothers, cousins, or close relatives have ever fought in a war.

My guess is right. I know this kind all too well. And, I can barely control my rage around them...knowing first hand what it is like to bury a brother who died fighting the war that none of them wanted to fight. Amazing how all these types love war, but make damn certain none of their blood gets shed.

You have my condolences.

[Matariki]

18. man, NONE of my friends are neo-cons

how do you end up with neo-con friends? i can't even imagine.

[Seen the light]

20. I'm a former Republican, Freeper even

I've given my story here before on my travel to where I am today, I'll see if I can find the old thread for you in a pm.

[driver8]

21. That is some fucked up logic...even for freepers. I can tell

you that if he was my "friend", we wouldn't be seeing much of each other.

[Skittles]

22. I would not be friends with this person

life is to short to be friends with this asshole

[saltpoint]

23. Just send a reply that says something like, "I may be a bit difficult to

reach from this point forward to the 2008 election cycle, as I am volunteering as many free hours as possible to the Democratic candidate(s) in my district/state/etc., in an effort to rid the three branches of our government of the bullet-headed fascists currently in charge."

[sadiesworld]

24. 300M per day.

n/t

[pbartch]

25. Tell your friend to volunteer AND FIGHT FOR THE IRAQI'S

that he appears to love so much.

[gordontron]

26. :puke:

:puke:

[NoSheep]

27. um...yes. end it now. write a VERY imformative letter stating the facts

as you kow them and end it. If you need facts, PM me and I'll email you some. Start with PNAC.

[CarlVK]

28. What a sick fuck.

When I hear things like this, I mourn for my nation.

[wtmusic]

29. He knows a lot about having balls, having ENLISTED and everything...

I mean he's over there supporting the liberation, isn't he? Oh, he's an Armchair General? Can I join...it looks like fun...

A pleasure to serve under you, SIR! Review video game battle plans...SIR YES SIR! Driving Hummer to convenience store...returning with beer and pretzels! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED, SIR! :rofl: :patriot: :rofl:

What a turd.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

30. Tell Him To Fly To Afghanistan And Then Iraq. Then He Has To Report

back to us the difference of his definition of liberation prior to his current definition of liberation. Methinks he would find not quite so 60 million many people living in what technically would be a liberated society.

[patrice]

31. That's BS and I bet he knows it, but doesn't care.

Allow me to attempt a little BS experiment of my own:

Aside from the fact that no one has actually been freed yet, except by death, and countless more enslaved for all time, the logic that freeing people is worth x is based upon an assumption of the intrinsic value of one human life. There isn't anything that makes a distinction between any one of the 3000 and any one of the 60 million, without that distinction there's no basis for saying anything about relative worth. There is only more or less; those are quantities, not qualities such as "worth". Is a bucket of sand more valuable than a cup of sand?

Since there is no basis for distinction between any one of the 3,000 dead and any one of the 60 million not-dead, both are products of 1 X n, so if any 1 of the 3,000 has no value, then any 1 of the 60 million has no value and multiplying it by 60 million doesn't make it more valuable. I guess my point here is, more of something undefined doesn't make it different, without that defined qualitative difference upon which to base some judgement we call "better" or "not as good", it's only more or less, you don't know what else it is. So, if (any) ONE human life doesn't have that presumed value, how does 60 million times nothing add up to something.

Conversly, if you assume the 1 (in 1 X 60 million) has some value that multiplying it by 60 million makes it even more valuable, 60 million times more valuable, then (because there is no distinction other than quantity) the 1 (in 1 X 3000) has some value also. So it seems there is some basis now for saying 60 million times something valuable is more valuable than 3000s time something valuable, but I'm not sure we know that. A bucket of sand is more valuable than a cup of sand if you're making glass, but a cup of sand is more valuable than a bucket of sand if your filling a bag (for a counter-weight say) that only holds a cup. So aside from the fact that your friend does not provide a distinction between 1:3000 and 1:60 million (other than less and more of something that is otherwise undefined), there's no context that allows us to evaluate whether more is, in fact, better than less.

Or something like that . . . .

[pitohui]

32. yeah block their email and don't bother w. them again

your "friend" is an inconsiderate boob w. a mental illness

i wasn't aware that there was any war that liberated even one person much less 60 million!

there is nothing to be gained by continued enabling and humoring of the complete and total crazy

the light bulb has got to want to change -- and the person who deliberately makes fun of the dead of 911 as "minimal" doesn't have human feelings or care about yours

fuck 'em

don't email 'em back, don't call 'em, don't ever pick up the phone, don't ever contact them again, just deny them the drama reward they seek for their hatefulness and go forward w. your life

no "discussion" of their hurtfulness will do anything but hurt you more as you realize just how cold and uncaring this person is

save yourself the heartache

don't look back

[earth mom]

34. Hmm...you're a FORMER freeper and you post sh*t like this here?

Pardon me if I don't quite believe your motives because shit like that doesn't need to see the light of day here on DU...ever!

:eyes:

[Seen the light]

37. This is why I hesitate to bring that up here

I understand the feeling people some have here when I say that I'm a former freeper. When I'm able to use the advanced search function again, I'd be happy to dig up the old thread I had here last year I think where I explained my story. I did hesitate to post this thread anyway though, because I know my gut was telling me to just drop the guy completely and I usually have a good sense for things on my own.

On another note, thanks for the advice everyone! I've been typing up a response to him and I think I am going to stop speaking to this clown. Some things are just beyond the pale.

[earth mom]

43. You could have posted the problem you are having with your friend without

posting his filthy letter in it's entirety. You may be sincere about your intentions, I have no idea really. However, your post brought out the claws in me not only because the freeper mindset is so despicable but also because I have no doubt that Freepers get off on posts like yours when they see their ideas and beliefs posted here on DU.

Let the freepers spew their filth on their own nasty website.

[shadowknows69]

35. I have a friend of 30 years

Who up until 2003 was a democrat and pretty liberal. He took a big heaping gulp of the neo con koolaid and now I can barely talk to him.

[LynnTheDem]

36. Yes.

[leftofthedial]

38. run, don't walk,

in the opposite direction

[BuyingThyme]

39. Interesting how he doesn't count certain people when they're killed,

but counts them when they're "liberated."

And by "liberated" I guess he's talking about all of the men of Iraq who now rule over the women (who were more equal under Saddam Hussein).

Oh, and anybody who uses the word Islamofascist is a simpleton.

[ContraBass Black]

40. I would.

[renate]

42. if he's not a current or past volunteer for the war in Iraq

, and I think you would have mentioned it if he were, I would say let the friendship go. He's probably just stupid, not evil, but you don't need that kind of frustration in your life.

However, if he has actually put his own personal ass on the line, I'm glad he can feel good about being there, truly. How awful it would be to be there fighting a war he didn't believe in... so any rationale that gets him through the night is a good thing.

Otherwise... :puke:.

[wtmusic]

44. Liberated? Who's been liberated?

Tell your "friend" to pull his head out of his ass. Tell your "friend" no one's been liberated; both countries have been turned from a life with limited freedoms to a living hell, with no end in sight. Tell your "friend" the war is a lie and he's a fool for falling for it. Ask your "friend" if North Korea should invade the US, and just how "liberated" he would feel. Ask your "friend" if it's worth it, why isn't his wussy ass over their helping with the Grand Liberation? Ask him if it's worth it only when other people's lives are at stake? Ask your "friend": who is responsible for more deaths in the world--OBL or Dubya? Ask him why every prediction made by antiwar protestors in 2002 has come true. Ask him what denial feels like and if there's a cure.

These are just things a friend of mine brought up. From my "friend" to yours.

[Jo March]

45. Wow! I didn't know that you were friends with George Bush!

Well, even if he is the pResident, tell him to stop emailing you!

:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

46. your friend is an ass..... you decide n/t