"Muslims can convert to Christianity here!"

[deadparrot]

Church sign stirs anger among local Muslims

LAUREL -- "Muslims can convert to Christianity here!" read the sign Monday in front of the Congregational Church on Laurel Road.

It was an invitation that the church's pastor, K.C. McCay, admitted he didn't expect anyone to accept.

But coming on the fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, it was bound to stir a response.

And it did.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060912/NEWS/609120341

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Easy enough to fix.

Some smartass in Laurel should simply switch "christian" with "muslim."

[shadowknows69]

3. They hate us for our freedoms

Freedom to be a second class citizen if you're not a christian. Can Wiccans convert too or are we just shown to the gallows?

[rhiannon55]

9. Hey shadowknows69!

Blessed Be!:hi:

[shadowknows69]

18. Right back at ya Rhiannon

n/t

[The Deacon]

11. I'm Thinking Gallows

The innate sexuality of an Earth Mother based religion is inherently unsettling to all of us uptight Christians - sorry, but our comfort zone is more important than your First Admendment Rights.

[Taxloss]

2. Delete "Muslims", insert "Republicans". Fixed. n/t

[bobbolink]

22. Beautiful!

:yourock:

[Phredicles]

4. Maybe 10 commandements weren't enough: "Thou shalt not be a dick"

would have been a valuable precept to include on the list.

[longship]

5. My gawd. The Congregationalists????

United Church of Christ is the most liberal Christian sect. I cannot believe that this will not have some repercussions from the mother church org. I'm very surprised about this. It's extraordinarily insensitive.

[Bill McBlueState]

6. i don't think so

From the article, I get the impression that this church is not affiliated with the UCC.

[longship]

13. Well, if they are a Congregational Church, I think they are.

However, in good liberal tradition, the UCC may not want to act on this.

BTW, I attended Congregational church for 13 years.

[noonwitch]

29. Not all Congo churches joined the UCC, and some have left it

I grew up attending a UCC church. Most of the congo (congregational) churches were UCC, but one in the area wasn't.

When we got our new minister, in about 1979, our church was a UCC church, but still used the word "Congregational" instead of UCC. When he proposed a change, the old people got up and threw a fit. At the time, the UCC was talking with the Disciples of Christ about the latter joining the former. The old people didn't want to be confused with that denomination for some reason (I know little of the DOC).

In the Detroit area, there are a couple of congo churches that aren't UCC. The one on Southfield RD in Southfield/Lathrup Village is not UCC.

[GreenPartyVoter]

58. They are congregationally managed, hence the name and the wide

spectrum between liberal and conservative.

[Richard Steele]

7. "Christians" could start following the words of Christ there...

But I ain't holdin my breath for THAT either.

[Sam Odom]

You mean these words ?

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6).

[Richard Steele]

63. I mean ALL the words, not just the ones that fit their mood of the moment.

It's no great skill to take a single passage and claim
that it justifies whatever hateful shit you were already
gonna do anyway- EVERYONE has been doing that for 2000 years.

But actually attempting to live a LIFE according to Christ's
philosophy is a rare and seldom-seen thing.

[rpannier]

8. Gonna file this one under 'ehhhh'

It's a sign, nothing more-or-less, He's not threatening to kill or beat you if you don't convert.
Monotheistic religions, like Christianity and Islam are trying to convert all the time. Some threaten you if you don't, others ask you to convert and then move on.
This sign is hardly that offensive.

edited for spelling

[bluerum]

10. Hawking religion on the sreet, like snake oil, is offensive to me. nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Associating 9-11 with Islam isn't offensive?

Let me guess. You're white and christian?

[rpannier]

17. White, non-Christian

living in Korea (have for a decade), married to a Korean. Have 4 daughters: 2 full-blooded Koreans from her previous marriage to her late husband, 2 daughters that are mixed race Kor-Am.

Anything else you wish to know?

[sandnsea]

34. Update - America has changed

Since you haven't lived in the middle of it for the last ten years, you really can't imagine what's really happened. The comments of just the last few weeks should give you a clue - macaca, little guatemalan fellow, black folks can't swim, Bush telling a black mother she ought not sell her son's medal on ebay, it goes on and on and on. If you recall the Birchers - this crowd makes them look reasonable. It's really bad, and this is just one more in a long line of bigoted insults that get worse every year.

[IChing]

14. You don't hardly get it do you?

This sign is hardly that offensive after attacks yesterday on mosques in California

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Oh, IChing...

I'd say the sign contains the very same sentiment as the attacks on those mosques.

[rpannier]

16. So the sign in Florida is linked to the Mosque attacks in California

And you know this how???

There is no reference to that anywhere in the article -- either by the minister or his detractors. People are upset because they feel he's using 9/11 as a springboard to get his message across. And that is unfortunate that it appears he did.
But it's still a sign. He didn't threaten to kill anyone. He didn't put "Muslims are evil!" or "Muslims are going to hell if they don't convert!" or anything like that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Well...

If a group of klan members burn a cross in front of a white church in Alabama, and some restaurant in Oregon puts up a sign that says "whites only," they might not know each other, but there's certainly a connection.

"He didn't threaten to kill anyone."

Neither does a burning cross, technically.

"He didn't put "Muslims are evil!" or "Muslims are going to hell if they don't convert!" or anything like that."

Both are directly implied.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. If you think that's not a "nyah nyah nyah" provocation, you're blind. -nt

[Richard Steele]

60. And there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see....

[ContraBass Black]

20. Garish, inappropriate, and embarrassing.

[bobbolink]

21. I'm sure they're as grateful for that "opportunity" as Indians and

Hawaiians were in years past.

:eyes:

[Ravenseye]

23. The interesting question is though...

How would the community of reacted if there had been a mosque on a public road and on 9/11 they put a sign out front which read "Christians can convert to Islam here!"?

[bluerum]

25. Similar outrage - perhaps amplified 1000 times. Did muslims put

a sign on the street hawking their religion? I did not hear about it. Did you see or hear about it?

I would wager that if that had happened, it would make headlines across the country and and the RW blabber mouths would be talking about an Islamic invasion for months.

[KamaAina]

24. No they can't

anyone who would put that grabage up, on 9/11 no less, isn't really a CHristian, so there!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. Muslims are the least likely group to convert to Christianity, because

giving up Islam is considered just about the worst sin there is, especially among ethnic groups that practice conservative types of Islam.

Only the fundies still try to send missionaries to officially Islamic countries. Most of the indigenous Christians in places like Pakistan were converted during the colonial period, and other majority-Muslim areas in the Middle East (Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Palestine) have Christian populations that have been there since the earliest days of Christianity. Indonesia is the most populous Muslim majority country in the world, but not all its ethnic groups are traditionally Muslim. (The most well-known example is Bali, which is majority Hindu.)

[Bluebear]

27. How healing! how respectful!

:eyes:

[genie_weenie]

30. What's wrong with this?

Why is this offensive? The sign is on the church grounds and I don't think there are any forced conversions going on (nowadays at least).

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. It's unnecessarily confrontational and nasty.

By the way, nobody said they haven't the right. Only because you have the right to do something doesn't mean doing it is a good idea.

[Sam Odom]

32. All religionists are mentally ill

IMHO

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

38. No, they're not. Not anymore than Republicans are.

Misled != Crazy.

[genie_weenie]

35. Well, I didn't argue rights but

Christianity is a proselytizing religion and some sects think members must actively convert the "unsaved".

It is confrontational, but nasty? Is it worse than Church bells ringing?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

41. Jesus H. Q. Rhyste on a pink yellow-polkadotted nuclear powered pogo stick

You think this is just like ringing church bells?

You truly ARE blind.

Go see sandnsea's post #37. And try to answer it.

[genie_weenie]

50. Okay really what do you want me to type?

Is this back and forth on the path to some things are better left unsaid because they stir up negative feelings?

That someone somewhere may read this sign and extrapolate that the nice "Muslim-looking" fellow who lives next door needs to convert on else?

What do you want? Do you want a blind condemnation over a semi-anonymous message board about how stupid this is?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. What you already typed was informative enough, thank you very much. -nt

[genie_weenie]

57. Is that a brusque electronic shoulder turn?

Anyway thanks for the debate. I guess the confrontational and poor taste arguments are why this sign should never have been posted.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

59. Ahem.

[Bluebear]

33. Given the times it is in-your-face and "my God's better than yours"

Extremely low taste.

[genie_weenie]

36. But, the "My God is better/bigger than yours"

is inherent in every religion and in most groups which offer exclusivity.

But, I find this not as distasteful as * invoking his God every time he speaks...

Would it be acceptable if the church posted "Non-Christians can convert here"?

[sandnsea]

39. Well gee - the sign DIDN'T say that

now did it? Duh.

[Bluebear]

46. The sign should say PANCAKE BKFST 9/22 and shut up about conversions :)

[sandnsea]

37. "Jews convert here"

Would you get it if the sign said that? Or "Catholics convert here" Some days...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[genie_weenie]

43. I wouln't get upset even if it said "Godless

people like genie weenie are going tocgoing-to-burn in hellfire unless they convert here"...

But, that's just me, which is why I asked for some explanation on the offensive nature of the sign...

Would you get mad if I had a sign on my private property which stated "Christians Unconvert here"?

[sandnsea]

45. None of that is the issue

Because we aren't talking about hypothetical signs that might or might not offend you - personally. You intentionally avoid the intent of the specific sign in question, although I can't for the life of me figure out why. But if you want to play that game, I guess you don't have a problem with Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" signs either??

[genie_weenie]

47. Actually your post 37 is a hypothetical sign

and in the post you asked me if I had a problem with those signs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. post 37...

is an analogy to a very real sign.

Is it that you don't feel the same way to Muslims, that you do towards Jews and Catholics?

[genie_weenie]

52. My analogy was very real as well.

I have seen Unsaved come in and find Jesus signs near churches.

But, the question is why do you want to read anti-Islam bias into all my posts? To belittle my questions and my responses?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. Why?

Because we think you know full well how bigoted the sign is and you're pretending otherwise.

[genie_weenie]

61. I can't equate the bigoted sign with actual

attacks on Muslim persons or Mosques.

But, this sign is something which needs to be dealt with rationally. Emotional arguments "That's wrong" just don't cut it and I was simply stirring the pot to see if (anyone cared) to make a cogent argument on the incorrectness of the sign. The only legal recourse would be anger words of inciteful language I guess.

Religions, and not religious persons, are bad. They contain many incorrect ideas (and a few good ones-You shall treat your neighbor as yourself being a good one) but they are simply outdated and incorrect ideologies.

I've absorbed and ignored so much religious bigotry over the past 6 years, but I can't put this up with say the Pope and the French King calling for the Albigensian Crusade against other Christians or the theft of young Slavic Christian Men by the Ottoman Empire to form the Janissaries.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Do you see anything wrong going on here?

[genie_weenie]

44. Nope! I burn bibles and crosses and flags and copies

of the constitution and the Communist Manifesto and images of the Glorious Leader all the time...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. You dodged the question.

[genie_weenie]

51. No I didn't

Is that picture a klan meeting? Are the people involved in that photo doing anything else than burning a cross on private property belonging to one of the persons in the photo and with his consent?

Obviously if the people pictured go off and injure or kill someone or cause destruction to someone's property or burn another cross on someone else's property they have committed a crime.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. Presumably, yes. Klan meeting. Private property.

But nobody is talking about whether or not it is illegal. We're talking about whether or not it's wrong.

[Rex]

40. Boy are they all gonna have egg on their faces when they find out

it is the same God!

[CollegeDUer]

56. "McCay said he doesn't expect any Muslims to take him up on his offer."

That shows he is trying to be deliberately provocative. jerk.

[CarlVK]

62. Wow, the bounds of tasteless have just been broken.