What is the difference in your mind between genuine ADHD/ADD and just a

[Fountain79]

simple case of overstimulation/inattention? I think there are some kids who are honestly given too much stimuli in their lives.(computer, tv, instant messaging, etc) There are those of course who simply have issues with attention and it wouldn't matter what was around them at the time.

[moc]

1. Just asked my husband (a therapist specializing in child/adolescent)

He says that for a true ADHD/ADD kid, the overstimulation is internal not external. That is, their hyperactivity is less driven by external stimulation than you might think. He said that although a highly stimulating environment can exacerbate the ADHD kid, they can also be bouncing off the wall in a quiet room.

[Fountain79]

2. I guess part of the question is driven by my own experiences with

inattention. I wonder if it was just a case of being overstimulated or something more than that.

[moc]

4. Something more than that.

Or so Mr. moc says. He says it's neurochemical (true ADD that is) not because of external stimulati on.

[seabeyond]

28. if you are ever around these children, you can SEE the difference

and feel the difference. i have the average child doing the average things, but you know their feet are planted on earth. same with my own feel of inattentiveness. but you just feel the difference in the child. it is visible

[EFerrari]

3. That's a very good and imho, accurate description.

My husband has this condition. He is very sensitive to exeternal stuff, very sensitive, but his situation is by far driven by internal dynamics.

[Sydnie]

6. I can testify to that fact

My son had one speed - full out. We used to say he would squirm like a worm in hot ash in a room with nothing on the walls and no furniture. The impusivity was almost too much to bear sometimes.

I can remember taking him the the park to play and watching the other mothers watching him ... and me. I often saw them clutch their chest and gasp, then look at me as if to say, aren't you going to stop him? By that time, I knew that as long as he was not asleep, he would be little Jeffrey from Family Circus. I had grown numb to it by that time.

ADD/ADHD kids often are very bright too. They get bored so easily because they always want to know "then what happened" way before the other kids even know what the subject is at all.

[seabeyond]

27. yes

[ComerPerro]

38. That's how my mother, 20+ year special ed teacher, describes it

[KT2000]

5. I think it takes a lot of observation

to tell the difference.
The ADHD/ADD boy (boys exhibit by extra energy whereas girls exhibit daydream behavior) is engaged in acitivy to keep his brain awake and alert which is different from the so-called over-active child.

There are many stimulants in a child's life, from the food they eat, to the computer games they play and contaminants in the air they breathe. They are many times responding appropriately to their input. I believe this is the over-active child.

The ADHD/ADD child is using the available coping methods to make a correction to a brain that is telling the mind to zone out and sleep. Input processing in these children is wired differently than the normal child. Input overload is like a short that keeps telling the brain to turn off but the child is trying to over-ride that using activity.

It is a sad thing that is being done to the kids. We are not giving them the best chance for reaching their full potential. We have allowed pollutants to reach them as fetuses that are altering the very construction of their brains, i.e. chemicals that alter thyroid functon - dioxin and PCBs are just two.

[Armstead]

30. One correction -- Boys can also have the daydream variety

[KT2000]

42. Yes.... I over-generalized

and you are correct.

[Ilsa]

7. And kids who don't get enough sleep.

My youngest isn't hyper. But all of the teachers working with him say he is truly ADD. We're having a long conference with the doctor tomorrow.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

8. Okay, I actually have ADD...

I never really had the hyperactive part, like many other ADD girls I get the inattentive part.

The best way I can describe it is my brain is always firing, regardless of what's really going on around me. It's like my brain is in hyperdrive all the time. It actually works faster than I talk and I need to make a conscious effort to slow my brain down. It's like it's three steps ahead of the rest of me.

I take Adderall XR most days and it does help. Those who know me can tell immediately whether or not I've taken it. They describe it as if I didn't take it, I look more tired (it is pretty much just prescription speed after all) but am generally more out of control, usually in terms of starting something, getting distracted and then totally forgetting about what I should be doing or saying/doing something without really thinking of the consequences. When I do take it, I'll look more alert but I'll generally act more focused and am less likely to completely offend somebody.

In school, my grades always varied from crappy to perfect, depending on whether or not I was challenged. I was always in all advanced classes, but if the class was still too easy, I'd do crappy in it. Pretty much it's a teacher's nightmare to have a very smart, bored ADD kid in a class.

[Sydnie]

9. One doctor described it to me this way

You're in a classroom and you are trying to pay attention to the teacher like everyone else in the room but you already have a pretty good grasp on the material from reading the book. Then a bird flies by the window and you zone out waiting for another bird to fly by. The you hear a noise in the hall and you zone out trying to figure out what the noise is and who might be making it. Then you feel the hairs on your neck as the gentle breeze from the window makes them "feel weird". You can't figure out why they feel weird so you zone out pondering the fact that your body is covered with hair and now they all are feeling weird because you are aware that they are there.

Boredom is the worst with kids like this. I had to constantly redirect my son to keep him on task. Seems he "noticed his neck hair" way too often even. His grades were always great once he was diagnosed and medicated. He could then stay on task long enough to show what he knew and not distract those around him. One accommodation that made for him in class was to give him a soft eraser. He could squeeze the eraser and release the desire to move and still sit still enough to give the lesson his attention. It worked most of the time.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. Yeah, I always play with stuff with my hands.

It could be just folding up a little piece of paper repeatedly or fiddling with a paper clip. In HS, I actually used to carry a stress ball with me all the time. No one ever had issues with me having it since I would just squeeze it or poke at it. It's not like I was throwing it around the room.

[Fountain79]

11. Would pacing as a nervous habit be another sign? n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

12. I don't pace but some people probably do.

Like I said, mine isn't really physically hyperactive. It's more like just getting mentally distracted every three seconds.

[tnlefty]

22. My spouse does this not so much as a nervous habit, but as he says to

'actually clear my brain so that I can get all of my thoughts focused into one place.', if that helps you any.

One of my kids exhibits a lot of self-stimulating behaviors, especially when trying to complet homework, etc.

[CarlVK]

13. I think we've "syndromized" a whole lot of naturally occuring things

And its getting a bit out of hand. I have to wonder how many things that humans have worked through in their personal development (like growing up, learning some social behaviors etc) are now tagged as some sort of malady that requires a pill.

Not to be disrespectful of those who truly need medical help, but it's something I've noticed in my world.

[mwb970]

17. I was hoping someone would point this out.

The main solution to any childhood problem now seems to be drugs. They have my 12-year-old niece on some kind of ADD meds but it makes it hard for her to sleep so she is on a second drug for that. The ADD drug also killed her appetite but they haven't given her a third drug for that yet. All this because she's bored in class.

As CarlVK said, there is no disrespect intended toward anyone who actually needs and benefits from these drugs. But how many average, normal 12-year-olds have we put on multiple drugs to "cure" some behavior that is typical in children and always has been? I don't get it.

[bling bling]

39. Anyone who prescribed her a drug for being "bored in class" is

a quack.

Surely there were other symptoms??

In order for someone to be diagnosed as having ADHD, they must meet certain minimum criteria according to the DSM. Being bored is not among the criteria. Any doctor who would prescribe medication to a child who's simply bored should have his/her license revoked.

[Sapere aude]

18. Yeah, just let them snap out of it!

What you say, if true is not of much consequence, but if you are wrong and a lot of people follow that line of thinking, they will never get the treatment they could have and will live much more miserable lives than they had to. Speaking from experience here.

[Armstead]

32. A different way to look at it is that we know more

I won't disagree with you that in today's world, there is a certain trendiness to ascribe certain normal behavior to disorders.

However, I believe there are very valid basis for much of the increased "symptomization."

As we learn more about how the brain works, we are better able to identify the causes of behavior that would have been written off as simple "character flaws" in the past.

It may be somewhat of a spectrum, and it's difficult to define the difference between what is an acceptable "normal" range and what is serious enough to treat.

However, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Personally, I was diagnosed with a case of ADD a while back. My initial response was to reject it because I figureds it might be a fad diagnosis. However, the more I learned about it, the more it explained certain lifelong tendencies that were previously baffling and frustrating.

Understanding that behavior in that framework was ultimately a great relief. More importantly, it made it easier to devise ways to cope with it and take steps to lessen its' impact.

[Rowdyboy]

14. There has to be some logical, scientific explanation for ADHD/ADD....

Some chemical explanation maybe? Its a relatively new phenomena (at least to my knowledge), and how could this syndrome emerge apparently spontaneously in the last half of the 20th century. There must be something we're eating or drinking or breathing that is bringing on this problem.

I hope no one thinks I'm being dismissive. I'm very well aware of the affects of ADHD/ADD. It just do not understand why it has chosen our generation to emerge. I freely admit, as someone with no children it has never been something I took the time to study seriously, but I'd really like to hear an explanation for why the problem has only emerged now.

[bling bling]

15. I think ADHD is a genetic spawn of depression.

There is likely a genetic component to clinical Depression. I believe depression became rampant in the 20th century. And I think ADHD may have started developing in children who's parent(s) had experienced Depression. Then those children had children and new various forms of ADHD manifested themselves and spread. Now it's become quite prevalent, just like depression.

Ever notice how many people who have ADHD also experience depression in their lives? It's almost like they go hand in hand.

Not the scientific explanation you wanted, but it's all I have to offer at 1:15 a.m. on Monday. it sounded logical to me, anyway.

[Rowdyboy]

16. Makes more sense than anything else I can think of....

Thanks

[Sapere aude]

19. It is not a new thing, it us just now being seen as something that can be

treated. In the past you just spanked the kid or humiliated him in front of his peers. I am 60 and had ADD as a kid and still do. My childhood was miserable because of teachers and other adults who always told me that I had character flaws that I could fix. I could not fix them and it was very discouraging because I wanted to be "good" like the other kids. I could not help daydreaming all day, or looking out the window, or being impulsive and a bunch of other things that got me check marks on my report card. "Doesn't work to expectations, doesn't concentrate on task at hand and on and on. I was always told that if I just tried harder I could be classes with the smart kids but I just don't work hard enough.

[shrike]

21. Been there, Sapere. I hear you

The only good thing about my childhood is that it has left me no taste for nostalgia. I don't look back at the good old days because there were none.

Tough thing, too, is that I am from a large family, and was the only child with my condition. I had a very difficult time with large groups of people (think God doesn't have a sense of humor?) because of the distractions and overstimulation and so always needed to be alone. The folks wanted this jovial, cheaper-by-the-dozen family life and punished me for not wanting to "join" the family.

I got very little attention from my parents, and was told by them, much later, that I was different and too much work, and that they had "other children to raise."

[shrike]

20. It's not new. My father had it, though he was never formally diagnosed

He died at 73, two days after his birthday, five years ago.
I've had it all my life, and I was diagnosed last year, at 45. My diagnosis came after my niece's, when my sister pointed out that Niece and I have so much in common.

We ADDers were the "bad" kids, the "strange" kids, the ones who wouldn't/couldn't behave like everyone else. I was never hyperactive; I had the inattentive type. I lost things, forgot things, would drift off in the middle of conversations. Now that I'm in middle-age, my peers are complaining of forgetfulness and memory loss. I say, "Welcome to my world."

The human brain has an executive function, or a manager. In us ADDers, the manager is out to lunch, at least some of the time. It probably has nothing to do with over-stimulation, diet, TV, discipline. I appreciate the calm and respectful tone of this thread, but it really burns me that people still believe that ADD is a myth, an excuse, a result of weak character or parenting.

Back in those days, in the 60s and early 70s, kids who didn't behave the way they were supposed to were of "bad" character. I spent decades trying to reform my "character." Luckily for me, I did very well in school (not all of us have trouble scholastically) and finished college with no trouble. Work and social relationships were the hard part for me -- I didn't feel comfortable until I finally went off on my own as an independent contractor. ADDers tend to have trouble picking up social cues, sustaining relationships (this is a generalization, btw). The worst part for me was feeling different. I never knew anyone like me. I always said I was a "tigger," and the thing about tiggers is that they're the only one.

[Momgonepostal]

25. your family is a bit like mine

I also believe my father had it. At least one brother has it. A sister and I have elements of it. One of my daughters absolutely has it. It's no picnic in the park, that's for sure.

[Ron Green]

23. Our environment is toxic, not only chemically but spiritually.

In my view, pollutants have crept into fetal development in recent decades, increasing the number of neurochemical ADD sufferers. Additionally, our "mental environment" is now so toxic with nonstop messages of fear and addiction for all children and adults except those who live quietly and away from all commercial messages, that to live in a state of distraction is now more the rule than the exception.

[Momgonepostal]

24. It is NOT a new phenomenon

The label of ADHD may be new, but the set of behaviors is not. We have elementary school report cards from my Dad from the 1920's, which say things like "Billy daudles" and daydreams and doesn't pay attention. We can't blame that on TV, radio, cell phones, IMs or other electronic distractions. You can't say that teachers were just trying to medicate him. After having lived with my dad, I have no doubt that he had ADHD, it's just that no one called it that. I have siblings who show signs of ADHD, I show some signs of ADHD. The label wasn't used when we were in school, but that doesn't make our issues any less real.

There's a book out, I can't remember the title, by Hallowell? that talks about people in history who possibly had ADHD. He mentions Ben Franklin and Sir Richard Burton and others, as people who exhibited lots of signs of ADHD in their lives.

[seabeyond]

31. i think it is something enviromental. i think it is something

we are doing today. no one in either family is like my oldest. it is absollutely chemical.... the brain, i believe. for example on a ride in a park, it spun in circle fast..... most all kids can handle that ride, it took him down. i swear he was passed out for a second and felt his body spinning clear into mid day the next day

a loud scream, or noise totally physically effect his whole body.

he would be so excited to go to a bday party, and could handle about 30 minutes before he had to find a quiet space.

inately, always, who he was

as a 3 month old he would wake up shaking. was the saddest thing ever. i would make sure all lites out, no noise and gently rub him awake from there on out

[bling bling]

34. Have you ever heard of Sensory Integration Disorder?

Your son reminds me of a friend's child. I learned about sensory integration disorder a few years ago because her daughter showed definite symptoms of "something" but nobody knew what. She had issues with textures in food, and with lights, noises, and tactile sensations. We finally discovered something called sensory integration disorder. She started taking her to therapy and it helped. It's also become a lot better as she's grown older. She's six now and the sensory issues are much better than they used to be.

Edited to add: The sensory issues most definitely affected and impacted her outward behavior as well.

[seabeyond]

41. i have considered that, but

if you read my post 26, there is a lot more to it. and it is funny how you say we knew it was "something" lol lol. that is so true. with edmund i feel add but i also see low level of autism. but i will tell you, it is never used as an excuse. it is a weakness that has to be aware of and worked on, harder then other things. like reading he is adult level. easy for him. another struggles in reading, that is their cross to bare. we have worked on tools that will last a lifetime, and we are patient..... and he is 11, every year gets a little easier. i didnt even talk to teachers ahead of time like i have every year. i let them have him for a week and then talked to them. big step, lol (actually i havent read on that. i am going ot google it.)

thanks

it is interesting the uniqueness of our children.

[KT2000]

43. Try investigating the research

on chemicals. It is not readily available but there is a lot known.
One place to start is http://www.ehponline.org
This is the publication of the National Institutes of Environmental Health Sciences.
Information builds for years, likely decades before any changes occur in the marketplace (if at all).

They are learning that chemicals we are routinely exposed to can disrupt the proper formation of the brain in the developing fetus. The mother can hardly control those exposures but when they occur during critical points of development, abnormalities can occur.

Look for info on dioxin, PCBs, pesticides, herbicides, chemicals in fragrance products and decide if you want these in your life - don't wait for the government to protect you - they are in bed with the manufacturers.

[politicat]

35. As an evolutionary psychologist by training (if not trade) my explanation:

Until the middle years of the twentieth century, external stimulation required both physical labor and a high degree of attention. Further, the social world was one that required heavy labor and was generally characterized by a poor diet that was usually deficient in nutrients if not calories (though calorie deficiency was common, too.) The educational system worked in such a way that a bright child could generally move beyond her/his age peers quickly and easily without much in the way of opposition by either parents or school; in the small schoolrooms where effectively all students were in a tutoring situation, advancement was a matter of individual accomplishment, while in the larger schools, there was no real stigma against accomplishment and able students were expected to do more and were given the encouragement to do so. (The negative side of this is that children who were not as able were not allowed educations much, if at all, and were often sent off to institutions or put to menial work.)

In wealthy families, a bored, bright ADD type child's abilities would be channeled through a tutor and appropriate education and work found; in poorer families, a bored and bright ADD type child would find a place in the professional world as soon as possible. A child who didn't sit still well could become a messenger or runner for any number of urban occupations, giving the child both stimuli and focus. A child with the obsessive variation could usually find employment in piecework of some sort. Agricultural labor is always varied and changing, with high levels of stimuli and required attention. Further, the high levels of daily labor required for existence in all but the highest classes of society ensured that an ADD/ADHD individual had the outlets to their energy that we really don't have now.

I don't believe that ADD/ADHD are more common now; the difference is that we don't have the mechanisms needed to cope with the behavioral manifestations that earlier people had. (I am pretty certain that Boyle, Newton and Merriwether Lewis were ADD/ADHD; Lewis had comorbid depression.) My own family has a history of something like it; my great-uncle went to university at 15, while his brother, my great-grandfather, went to university at 14 and came home at 18 to be a scientific farmer. Their career paths and their early dedication to them allowed them to cope with their symptoms effectively. Their sister, also ADD in nature, was privately tutored due to kidney disease and died very young, but her paintings were very skilled and had she lived, she probably would have been quite an artist. Their mother, who is the first person whose memoirs note something like ADD/ADHD was a diarist, columnist for the local paper, nurse, farmwife and midwife. She coped with her symptoms by being continually active. All were trained from a very early age to be attentive and focused. As Quakers, such training was not accomplished with corporal punishment, but in other families, it would have been.

My sister is coping with my nephew's incipient ADD/ADHD by reverting to as many pre-1940 social patterns as she can; they live within walking distance of his school and they walk to and from school; they eat whole foods and she only allows him to watch movies, not general children's TV. She feels that she is responsible for his education, and what happens in the classroom is only a starting point. (She's also ADD, so she's using her own tried methods to raise him effectively.)She's doing okay so far; he's in kindergarten and is behaving well, though he is a bit shy. We'll see.

[Rowdyboy]

44. While everyone who responded to my question has been very helpful

Your detailed explanation was what really made me understand entirely ADHD/ADD for the first time. Looking back more critically (because of the responses you guys gave) I was able to recognize examples in my fellow students back in the 1960's. Then I took an unbiased look at my own family and can say with a measure of some certainty that my baby brother was AHDH/ADD. His behavior fits so many of the examples you guys gave. Sadly, he died at age 29, murdered by his ex-wife.

All of you are why I love DU. Thank you all for helping me to get it.

[Odin2005]

45. As a person with ADHD, I totally agree.

[seabeyond]

26. my oldest has i think ADD.... i do see the difference

in the two. there is an impulsiveness that goes with adhdthat isnt in the add. add is a fuzzy brain..... high iq, smart, but oh so fuzzy and confusing. my son says when there is a lot of noise, it is within his head, his ears cannot hear, pick up, catch an individual voice. his whole body physically reacts to loud noise. his body cannot handle that fast moving rides at parks, it does something to his chemical balance and takes him down. he cannot at 11 look at my hand to follow where i am point. i will point and say look,he looks in other direction. in confusion he is in hwite noise and immobile, until something clears it up, he cannot get out of it and come to clarity. sequential thinking is very hard for him

i have seen things things from infantcy. have another child that doesnt have that. you can just see the difference in the child. the clarity in another child comparatively. because my son is so smart, people think he is just not paying attention or misbehaving, (ok it is so obvious and he is so good, that possiblity is there)

i have been watching children over the last decade. i am seeing a difference in them. i am particularly interested in the adhd child.i have found effective ways to bring them to quiet, allowing balance which has been real interest. the younger ones.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Easy enough difference.

Overstimulation is a simply problem that can be remedied by turning off the TV.

ADHD is a much more serious condition that has nothing to do with TVs, and often requires medication.

[Armstead]

33. I think the difference is how peope react to that stimulation

IMO, while there is a lot more stimulation in the environment that can lead to behaviors that are similar to ADD.

However, the difference, I think is how a child/adult reacts to it and handles it.

For example, a non-ADD person may play around on the computer and get sidetracked by web surfing, etc. However, they are more likely to be able to keep it in perspective and control the temptations.

A person with ADD, on the other hand, becomes like a kid in a candy store in the same environment, and is less lieklly to be able to handxcle all of the overstimulating input, or be able to shut it off.

[Javaman]

36. I would like to respond to this...

[2Design]

37. read book add success stories (book)

kids are expected to sit in one place most of the day listening to oral learner - I can't do it and most adults can't so they are labelled

they have a curious mind and need to be out playing, discovering, researching and learning in a different way
having no recess is part of the problem - having standized testing is another -

[NVMojo]

40. Thom Hartmann has some interesting stuff on this at his website

http://www.thomhartmann.com/home-add.shtml