Not enough people really care; we were in having our tires rotated...

[bridgit]

and balanced this morning, we do allot of driving & if the car goes down we go down. Still, as we waited, the TV was on with the usual morning fair: some guy talking to Aston Kucher talking about his pointy French shoes and how cool they are as girls wriggle & fawn in the background; Diane Sawyer talking with Whoopi Goldberg about her new ventures (I like Whoopi :-)), and Robin Williams being in rehab...very sad. A couple commercials, some people with signs all smiling and bouncing round in the background as well, you know...America,

But in the midst of it all the broadcaster plopped in a mention about another soldier killed in Iraq by a roadside explosive, an IED, as we've come to know & expect.

hubby & I looked up and were filled yet again with how young these people are that have been thrown into this hellish bush/bfee 'waking nightmare without end' or plan.

We looked around the waiting room, but noticed nobody else even taking notice. Looking at their feet, talking on cell phones, playing with game devices...whatever. Noticed as well that among the half dozen people there...each one had taken a seat in such a way that no one else could sit near them, as they had staked out a space; or as was in our case, a couple could sit together. I'm sorry, but I found it strange.

I find it a harbinger, yet another one, of how little we care for this society. For each other.

This is not a :rant: this is a sadness instead :cry:

[Jcrowley]

1. Just another media event

the way all of this is packaged and presented makes all of these things seem equal and pretty abstract. How often have we heard the news pimp tell us about some soldiers death followed by "in other news" or "an upbeat" story. Serves to desensitize people and makes it all seem to be one large news stream.

[bridgit]

5. i believe that to be the case, Jcrowley...

[nam78_two]

2. Apathy and stupidity

The curses this age :(

[bridgit]

7. yes, it is apathy, i mention how apathetic we are and people climb...

up one side of me and back down the other...but it is apathy, i do agree, and we are very capable of it x(

[nam78_two]

3. Apathy and stupidity

The curses this age :(

[rodeodance]

4. i see the same on city buses. people put things just so--so that no one

can sit by them. all in their own world.



.....We looked around the waiting room, but noticed nobody else even taking notice. Looking at their feet, talking on cell phones, playing with game devices...whatever. Noticed as well that among the half dozen people there...each one had taken a seat in such a way that no one else could sit near them, as they had staked out a space; or as was in our case, a couple could sit together. I'm sorry, but I found it strange.

[bridgit]

10. yes, there was a survey that went out here in town about our lightrail...

seating system as to whether people objected to having 'european style seating', where you sit across from folks face-to-face, or if all seats should face the same way so that there is no interaction...

long story short? the vote was for no interaction x(

[Connie_Corleone]

24. I have to admit, I do the same thing on city buses.

I started doing this because of getting the weirdest people sitting next to me. I'm a loner, so I can't take too much of that.

[barbtries]

38. i gotta admit i do as well

i've been stuck next to people who smelled so bad i was nearly gagging, and several years ago a nurse i know told me about a new virulent strain of TB that is resistant to antibiotics, and i figure it's places like the bus where those germs could be running free...

yet i am not an apathetic person; sometimes i feel pretty helpless with this unbelievably criminal and corrupt and murderous administration - especially the way they get away with EVERY fucking thing!
after the first gulf war i did slip willingly into apathy because my take on our side letting saddam not only live, but stay in power was that they wanted him there for the next time they decided to throw a war.

i called that one right i gotta say.

so what's the answer? we all can only do our best. I'm going to a move on "Call For Change Phone Party" on the 17th. Tomorrow i'm going to the CYA in Chino to present a class to youthful criminals on the effect of crime on victims. I do this through an organization called Justice for Murdered Children. Recently i have attended a murder trial as an advocate from JFMC. Earlier this week i got Victim/Witness funds freed up for the mother of one of the 13 people murdered here in LA over Labor Day weekend, so she can bury her son. It took a phone call to the detective; but the outcome was so positive i was truly gratified.

etcetera...i have found that when i do go forward and expend the energy to just try to make a difference, that i am surrounded and accompanied by many wonderful people, inspired, energetic, and very, very caring. it's all out there...good and bad.

[Leopolds Ghost]

34. Actually, this isn't a big deal. Birds do it. People have always done it

The more crowded it gets, the closer people are willing to sit to one another. When a public space is empty, people tend to spread out in an orderly fashion. Even when they are walking around and moving.

Personal space varies from culture to culture. Anglo-Saxon cultures have always had a strong sense of personal space. But the instinct is human.

This isn't a symptom of selfish, video game attitude of people trapped on their cars and cell phones. (which DOES lead to Republicanism because kids grow up in a hermetically sealed world now and want the same for their kids -- a 30 year old has never known anything different from the world of Starbucks, cell phones, and segregated schools.)

But the way people space each other out isn't a symptom of selfishness, just instinct.

It was documented in the 60's in a cool little documentary called "The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces" by William H. Whyte.

[Catherine Vincent]

6. Yeah, it is sad.

But I understand about the space thing. If one is alone and have to find a seat, everyone usually find a seat where no one is on either side if you can help it. I do that all the time. Although I do find it weird when there may be a couple of seats available but the person needing a seat rather stand.

[qnr]

9. Some of us do actually prefer to stand, in many instances, including

busses. I can't count the number of times people have invited me to sit down at meetings or whatnot, and I've politely declined.

Edit: typo

[bridgit]

22. agreed, civility is preferable imo as well...

:hi:

[Leopolds Ghost]

36. I thought only Rumsfeld did that! ;-)

Standing -- a symptom of Republicanism? ;-)

[bridgit]

12. i hear what you're saying, but we do try to occupy on a 'space...

available' basis, we also have no adverse reaction to standing either :-)

[indepat]

8. A harbinger into the heart and soul of vast segments of our society IMO

[bridgit]

19. yes, agreed...

[lonestarnot]

11. Why didn't you open into a loud conversation? Don't be afraid to say

something! Anything! Open some eyes!

[bridgit]

14. how loud, as we spoke in normal tones...

without any reaction whatsoever :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

16. Louder then! If you say they weren't paying attention, you needed to be

louder. Throw some acting in there! Come on, you know how!

[bridgit]

18. shouldn't i be able to hear you from here...

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

26. Mame! Yes Mame!

[bridgit]

29. log off on your computer immediately, and get out into the world...

cause i've been out there already today, and it is in need of assistance :patriot:

http://www.arcosanti.org

[lonestarnot]

30. Looking forward to Saturday!

:patriot:

[bridgit]

33. there you go, these will be busy days ahead, we should be coming...

together, and not flying apart at the seams; it's my same old mantra but there it is :hi:

[Sugar Smack]

13. Nominating.

This piece is gold, bridgit! :applause: :yourock:

[bridgit]

17. OK there it is, you realize we got our tires rotated & balanced for you...

Czarina, cause we need to get to where you are as well :headbang:

[Sugar Smack]

20. HOT DAMN!!!!

I cannot wait! Thankyouthankyouthankyou. :toast: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :yourock:

[bridgit]

50. that's a big ole YEPPERS!!!

:hug: :loveya:

[Skidmore]

15. Sometimes I think that it is more about how much information we

are deluged with in this nation where information has become a product. People try to tune it out--doesn't matter what kind of information it is they try to just block it. Sometimes that means dinking around with whatever gizmo you have at hand or focussing on one person--maybe on the other end of a phone--or not. Sometimes it means zoning out. I find myself looking for ways not to let people get too close these days--mostly because total strangers have access to so much informatino about you now. And the chances are that there is not much good that they want your information for. I think you are correct that it is a statement about our society. Maybe we need to learn to make things with our hands again and quit thinking we can always live in the moment and in the know.

[tabasco]

21. Republicans say: "They volunteered - fuck 'em!"

Republicans say our troops love to be in Iraq because they volunteered!

Brain dead people believe it!

[bridgit]

25. ah yes...there that is too, they should have known what were they...

thinking, did they not know that rumsfeld had every intention of using his pawns for their globalized, geo-political flesh & blood; i'll bet that wasn't in the brochure either

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. Hey, there are sick fucks...er...DU posters...who say the same thing.

I've encountered posters who believe the troops get what's coming because they volunteered and they "all" vote for Bush.

[bridgit]

47. how is that possible...

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

48. Apparently, some "liberals" only care about the lives of other liberals.

Check your PM.

[bridgit]

49. ah, but of course, got your pm & thanks doll...

:pals:

[truedelphi]

23. I try to remind myself that

Some of the people that are avoiding me or others might be in deep pain about something - a loved one having chemo - a mammogram report that came back with bad results, the fear that they think their pink slip is sitting on the bosses' desks and about to be handed to them.

But still, when you see the way that the congested cities' huge crowds are all about people avoiding one another, it is very sad.

[bridgit]

27. absolutely correct as well, which is the basis for my 'normal tones'...

mention up-thread i try to start respecting in small elegant circles first but that's just me, you may never know who you're talking to, or what has transpired in their lives up to that point

[truedelphi]

61. Plus if I had a youngster who was now in Afghan. or Iraq

Gawd _ I woul definitely be on my cell phone, avoiding the TV at all
costs and trying like mad to feel normally and
Most of all to think of anything but what is on the news

[Greyhound]

28. I don't know if this is your cup of tea, but I've found that one of the

most enjoyable ways of getting the discussion going is to invade their isolation. Your description of the waiting area is a good example, I plop my butt down in the empty seat separating them from the person two seats over, look them right in the eye and say "hi, how're you today?". It is rare when they ignore you and even when they do I'll turn to the person on the other side and make a comment like "kind of chilly in here, huh?", that usually get a chuckle or knowing look, and then we're off.

Another favorite of mine is when getting on a crowded elevator, I face the people all standing there staring up at the floor numbers and pretending the other people don't exist. Again I'll make some off-hand comment to which there is almost always some response and then again, we've started a conversation.

Once you've engaged an obvious stranger, everybody else is freed to join in, frequently with very satisfying results. Your waiting room non-encounter can become a spirited discussion that just might change somebody's perspective, or at least, piss-off the resident ditto-head for the rest of the day. :evilgrin:

[bridgit]

31. oh yes, that is very doable, but there is a moment when a 'read'...

occurs, or at least should; you'll be able to discern when times are right if cognizant, or when events have indeed reached a state of confluence, which speaks to properly sensing a moment of rapport...imo people will shun intrusion as with unsolicited opinions, or religious beliefs where too many pearls are lost before them, sad again...

but in the grander sense of things, quite beyond the rotation & balancing of tires, it's difficult to teach someone that does not care to learn though i agree with your gist...

hubby call it 'popping the pimple' :hi:

[Greyhound]

37. That's it, just give 'em a little poke to disrupt their "comfrt zone".

Fight the un-American isolation.:hi: B-)

[bridgit]

42. cheers, as it is up to us...

:toast:

[Generator]

32. You know I'd say give them a break

but I'm in a horrible pissed off sad mood and all the news is bad bad bad. SO the part about the cell phones got to me. This country is a freaking narcissistic selfish place and George W. Bush isn't the big mistake we like to think he is. He is US. He is our selfishness perfected. All the yak yack yakkk on the damn cell phones-you can't go anywhere without someone feeling the need that their precious meaningless words are of HIGHER IMPORTANCE than the world around them. Than the person next to them. Than what they are actually doing. The need to feel connected but they aren't connected to the world they are actually in in the moment or the people around them. They live in their head,in their own world.

I love talking on the phone but I don't do it in public, at the store, at the movie theatre, when I'm exercising. I don't do it in front of the world because my I have the arrogant narcissistic belief that my own life is more important than the world I'm in.

And of course, we are expecting them to die, aren't we? That's part of it. They die so we don't have to. And that's a good thing you know, over there, not here. That's what our own president has sold to us. The inequality without a draft just rankels me. It really is the only outcome you can expect as long as we aren't all really in this "war" together.

[bridgit]

35. yup, and while we expect them to die, while we expect republicans...

to be very bit the pissy, insufferable crap-heads they are, they are turning out their vote. witness Chafee http://www.topix.net/content/ap/0507110037350416320502339545210654001058?threadid=9JK1E4FJKFTDE6H9 it is attributed to their massive 'get out the vote' campaign. being positioned so well, please do not let us be caught not paying attention to what truly is

:hi:

[sweetheart]

39. where we find it.

Hubbie and i went on a holiday out west, and we end up staying in this countryside
victorian hotel. So after a nice dinner, i head off to the hotel pub.. and there
i buy a drink for a gentleman who looked slightly uncomfortable, being middle eastern
looking for whatever reason.

Well we get to talking, and all the pub lights up in a conversation. Its then i
discover that my drinking partners are staff officers in the pentagon with army
sigint, and we really had a pleasant conversation. The persons were both very conscious
of the on-the ground situation, and the real political situation, and though they did
not say so, clearly aware that bush is a lame duck, and that their careers will long
outlast him. I feel really good knowing those persons are in the command.

Really, if you asked me what 2 drinking partners i'd find who were in good spirits,
army command would not be amongst my guesses. Perhaps we can arrange for more pubs
in scotland, so dissaffected, socially wanting americans of all walks of society
can come and forget their day-careers, to be equal in a pub.

To army intelligence command, good luck with that.

[bridgit]

41. sweetheart, you know that i adore the way your thoughts coaelse...

:toast:

[CrispyQ]

40. Our communities are fracturing & fragmenting.

We have turned from a "we're all in this together" nation to a "your on your own" nation. Many people are more interactive with their virtual communities than their here & now communities. Not to denegrate virtual communities -- they certainly have their place, but it seems like more & more people don't speak to each other when out & about. It is rare that someone will say anything to anyone other than those they are with while waiting in lines. ?????

What the fuck are we so afraid of?

[Ron Green]

43. It's really part of the Plan, isn't it?

To keep people plugged in but all alone. The "virtual" world, despite its seeming grass-roots nature, is easily manipulated by its corporate masters, and kept full of fear and addiction. To break out of this isolation is to reject the message of the advertisers (who promise connection and deliver nothing) and embrace reality, which promises nothing but ends up delivering everything.

As humans we must do the unnatural act of avoiding immediate pleasure and seeking the painful process of growth. The Plan is to enslave us with our own blessing, because it's pleasant (almost) the whole way.

[bridgit]

45. bush has in reality been all along a divider...and not a uniter...lie #1

with respect to the virtual community that is true, you are right; republicans are out there 'turning out the vote', they love the idea that we sit here just talking about it witness Chafee, he owes their machine a large debt in spite of his voting record imo

[bridgit]

44. up thread somewhere abouts it was noted that bush IS us...

'we the people', and while i understand what was being said, and have made that point elsewhere here @ du myself as an umbrella concept if you will; it was nevertheless pointed out to me when i did that there have always been kooks in america...and while THAT is true, my greater sense is that bush has enabled such thoughts & divisions amongst 'us' to a greater and supposedly acceptable extent in that people, however ill formed in their process; will do what the president of these united states will suggest to them by direct manipulation of these truths we hold to be self-evident...or, sadder still, by way of the likes of bush, and his various & legion sins of omission

[bobbolink]

51. I don't watch a TV in those circumstances.

Don't mistake me for apathetic.

[bridgit]

52. not in the least, it was a coupling of newsprint & electronic media...

in either event, we subscribe to the sac bee :thumbsup: :hi:

[bobbolink]

53. I also gave up newspapers many years ago. I'm so unAmerican

I don't even drink coffee. ~~gigglesnort~~

Seriously, in those circumstances I bring a book on tape.

Not to say there isn't a horrible amount of apathy, but I'm not sure that's what's reflected in that waiting room.

Hey, you could entertain 'em with a little soft-shoe, then slip in some vital info, like election fraud, reality of poverty, etc.

:evilgrin:

[bridgit]

55. then die heretic...

i'm only kidding as i hear you loud & clear, i'm always hauling reading materials wherever i go as well :-)

i LOVE your soft-shoe ref though very much, i can just see the looks on their faces :rofl: as i reach in my pocket, toss a little sand on the floor, and spark up the place like Gregory Hines, or maybe Bob Fosse :thumbsup:

"Hey Guys!!! (shick, shick-sha shick-shick, shick-sha shick shick) Have your heard the one about the IED? No? Then this is going to be a great crowd..." :patriot:

[Balderdash]

54. I don't think it's as bad as it seems.

I live in St Tammany Parish, La and when Katrina hit down here the government let us down but the people, the everyday, ordinary people pulled together like you wouldn't believe. I don't have much faith in the people running our country right now but I have all kinds of renewed faith in the people around me. I also look at the hundreds of hero's from 9/11 and I know that the people in this country maybe desensitized a bit but when it's time for the rubber to hit the road they are there and ready to go.

[bridgit]

56. first of all, welcome to du, Balderdash...

love that handle :hi: since i posted this earlier, i have had a dose of a better america moving amongst our variously ethnic downtown area as peoples from around this world, the UAE, Korea, China, Vietnam, South America & points beyond, and of course right here in america; have come together in much more interactive & creative ways

i have little if any faith in this current republican leadership myself, but i continue to have faith in 'we the people' :kick:

[tpsbmam]

57. ITA, Balderdash...

I don't think you can read too much into what went on in that store. I have to admit, I have blinders on when I'm busy and just trying to get 1,000 squeezed into a day. When I'm in a place like that, I tend to read or whatever just to pass the time (or get work done). Having grown up in NYC, talking to everyone around me isn't something I'm likely to do.....except when someone needs help.

Like you said, when Katrina hit, it was everyday Americans who jumped in to help, sometimes giving up their "normal" lives for weeks or even months. Same was true in NYC on 9/11.

And it doesn't have to be something that major. During NYC blackouts, people who normally walk with blinders on as they race to and fro are right there, helping each other out.

And things go unseen. When I first moved out of home and lived on my own, I lived in a big building in NYC for about two years (we then moved to a brownstone). I recognized a very old woman one day in the street -- I'd seen her in the elevator. She was STRUGGLING to get down the street -- she needed to go to her bank. I slowed down and walked with her, stayed, and then walked home with her -- she was so rickety I wasn't sure she'd make it. I learned that she lived in a studio apartment in our building and she was all alone in th world. After that, I checked on her daily when I got home from work, we had her to our apartment frequently, she was with us for every holiday, when she got trapped in her bathtub we got her out quickly (though she did sit there for hours 'til I couldn't get her after work and the doorman let me in to the apt), and I was there when she died. And I'm far from alone -- I know many New Yorkers who've done the same kinds of things. Most of them are unseen, as they should be -- it's just what people "should" do.

But if you saw me on the street or in that store, you'd assume I was like all those other folks. You can't judge by that snippet of behavior.

[bridgit]

60. welcome to du, tpsbmam...

:toast:

[SoyCat]

62. Welcome, Balderdash from a fellow Gulf coast newbie! (NW FL)

[fudge stripe cookays]

58. Not just how little we care about each other....

but how little we care about anything other than stupid BULLSHIT.

Our country is falling apart, our president is a moron, torture is A-OK, we are fighting multiple wars, and a theocracy is threatening our very way of life.

I sat at lunch the other day at Good Eats. It was a beatiful day-- a cool breeze was blowing (a completely wonderful thing after blast furnace Tezxas heat for 3 months), and I had the special. Was trying to relax after a crummy morning.

These 2 idiots sat near me, and for an entire hour they talked absolutely NOTHING but sports statistics. Nothing.

I was appalled. They were both about late 20s/early 30s, and it was all I could do not to say something snarky about them being just the right age for Iraq. I'll bet many of our dead soldiers would like to be here watching a baseball or a football game. But they never will again.

[bridgit]

59. correct, spot-on-the-nail-head, fsc...

it is daunting to witness first hand i agree, the drift within this country while it is continued to be dismantled from within by domestic enemies and undemocratic usurpers of american blood, treasure & freedoms for a handful of gobbledygook